Dennis Smith Jr.:

[ParniValjak]

I agree, his upside should not be ignored. But the fact that he didn't give effort at times shouldn't be ignored either. The 5th pick is extremely important for the Kings, and they can't afford to make a mistake. If they bring Smith in for a workout and a interview, and then draft him, I'll trust their judgement. Because I'm sure they'll bring up his lack of effort at times.

I want a player that will bust his butt 100% of the time he's on the floor. That's one of the things that's attractive about Fox. His motor is always going full bore. That's what we'll need from Smith if we draft him. And he's certainly capable of that.

I agree with all of that. One of the main reasons why I like Fox is his constant at it attitude and leadership. It is something that I think this team needs. It lacks a leader out there and I can see Fox becoming that leader on the court. His approach to basketball is infectious and it will bring the best out of his team mates.

Smith's lack of effort at times is concerning but at 5 I think you need to go for the home run and not the safe pick. This team needs a franchise player and Smith has that potential. Are there red flags? Yes there are but then again, this red flags are not much different than Skal's 12 months ago. Now Skal did slide a long way but if draft were to be re-done now, he would be amongst the first bunch of players picked.

I really hope we draft Fox. He is my #1 choice. Anyone after him for me is a distant 2nd and from that bunch I am taking a gamble on someone who has the highest upside of all the other kids. To me that is Smith.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm warming up to the idea of taking Smith quickly now that Fox is seemingly out of reach.

I remember when he first blew up and IIRC led his team to the state championship when they weren't expected to be much of a threat in NC. He's always been spectacularly talented, first footage I saw of him I distinctly remember thinking "He looks like a lottery pick".

 

[206Fan]

DSJ posted a 48" vertical at the Lakers' workout.. my god. The highest at the draft combine with Hamidou Diallo at 44 1/2". Just to give you an idea of how that is...LaVine is at 46".

I'll continue pushing the DSJ hype train. He only has 2 pages in this thread because fans haven't seen him yet. Fox is getting 10x the media coverage, while DSJ is laying low. Fox is a media darling right now. I'm pretty confident that if DSJ was more heavily discussed by DX or any major sites, Kings fans would want him more than Fox.

 

[funkykingston]

DSJ posted a 48" vertical at the Lakers' workout.. my god. The highest at the draft combine with Hamidou Diallo at 44 1/2". Just to give you an idea of how that is...LaVine is at 46".

I'll continue pushing the DSJ hype train. He only has 2 pages in this thread because fans haven't seen him yet. Fox is getting 10x the media coverage, while DSJ is laying low. Fox is a media darling right now. I'm pretty confident that if DSJ was more heavily discussed by DX or any major sites, Kings fans would want him more than Fox.

I think Smith is more talented than Fox. My concern (beyond injury history and effort issues) is that I'm just not sure he plays winning basketball.

Beyond NC Sate's struggles what I see is a guy who plays like Marbury and Kyrie. And while Kyrie is viewed differently with LeBron back in CLE the reality is that people had the same concern with him before that.

Yes, he's a spectacular talent but does he make his teammates better and help win games? I don't know.

 

[AaronPDX]

DSJ is my first choice. The kid can flat out play.

 

[jpsls]

How do you think a backcourt duo of Smith and Hield would fare defensively? Hield is an average defender and Smith's weakness seems to be defensive intensity.

 

[ESP47]

They would be pretty bad defensively. I don't even think you can call Hield average at this point. We would need a 3&D SF to help cover up their defense but if they both develop the way we want, they would put up enough points to justify their lack of defense.

 

[dude12]

If Fox was taken before 5, I'd consider DSJ strongly. Hard to pass on a potential PG who could be the guy for the next 10 years.

 

[roasthawg]

DSJ posted a 48" vertical at the Lakers' workout.. my god. The highest at the draft combine with Hamidou Diallo at 44 1/2". Just to give you an idea of how that is...LaVine is at 46".

I'll continue pushing the DSJ hype train. He only has 2 pages in this thread because fans haven't seen him yet. Fox is getting 10x the media coverage, while DSJ is laying low. Fox is a media darling right now. I'm pretty confident that if DSJ was more heavily discussed by DX or any major sites, Kings fans would want him more than Fox.

I'm on board! Not too interested in verticals although that's crazy... But his athleticism shows up with contested dunks at the rim a la Westbrook. Dsj has just as much upside as Fultz imo... And we can get him at #5.

 

[roasthawg]

They would be pretty bad defensively. I don't even think you can call Hield average at this point. We would need a 3&D SF to help cover up their defense but if they both develop the way we want, they would put up enough points to justify their lack of defense.

That's why I'm advocating dsj at #5, og at #10, and semi at #34. Two tries at the defensive wing... Not sure if semi lasts that long but the other two guys will be there.

 

[roasthawg]

I think Smith is more talented than Fox. My concern (beyond injury history and effort issues) is that I'm just not sure he plays winning basketball.

Beyond NC Sate's struggles what I see is a guy who plays like Marbury and Kyrie. And while Kyrie is viewed differently with LeBron back in CLE the reality is that people had the same concern with him before that.

Yes, he's a spectacular talent but does he make his teammates better and help win games? I don't know.

I want dsj and I also agree with your assessment. Problem is the only two guys in this draft imo that have superstar potential and are the type of stars who's playing style equals a lot of wins are Jackson and Ball. Of those two I'm way more confident in Jackson.

Assuming we're not getting either of them I think dsj is the guy that brings the most upside. He might be a Lillard type but I think we can surround him with more talent than Portland had with Damian.

 

[ESP47]

That's why I'm advocating dsj at #5, og at #10, and semi at #34. Two tries at the defensive wing... Not sure if semi lasts that long but the other two guys will be there.

I'd consider it but it's risky. I believe DSJ has a higher bust potential than someone like Tatum or even Isaac at 5. Then at 10, OG has a higher bust potential because of his injury. It's a home run if they work out or possible purgatory if they both are busts.

 

[pshn80]

I'd consider it but it's risky. I believe DSJ has a higher bust potential than someone like Tatum or even Isaac at 5. Then at 10, OG has a higher bust potential because of his injury. It's a home run if they work out or possible purgatory if they both are busts.

Ah, the way of all drafts. Riskier picks may not an out, safe picks may not turn out. I'll go with the Vlade eye.

 

[funkykingston]

I'd consider it but it's risky. I believe DSJ has a higher bust potential than someone like Tatum or even Isaac at 5. Then at 10, OG has a higher bust potential because of his injury. It's a home run if they work out or possible purgatory if they both are busts.

The thing that concerns me about Anunoby is that he has a relatively high bust potential but I'm also not sure how high of a ceiling he really has.

Let's say he becomes a very good, multipositional defender who can hit outside jumpers. Does that make him a bigger, better spot shooting Mbah a Moute? Is that a home run pick or a really nice role player?

I'm just not sure what his ultimate upside is. And for a guy with such a limited resume of impact play/games and a major knee injury that's very concerning to me.

If he's at least been able to workout that would Ben something. But right now I see a guy with bust potential and maybe a low ceiling as well.

 

[ESP47]

The thing that concerns me about Anunoby is that he has a relatively high bust potential but I'm also not sure how high of a ceiling he really has.

Let's say he becomes a very good, multipositional defender who can hit outside jumpers. Does that make him a bigger, better spot shooting Mbah a Moute? Is that a home run pick or a really nice role player?

I'm just not sure what his ultimate upside is. And for a guy with such a limited resume of impact play/games and a major knee injury that's very concerning to me.

If he's at least been able to workout that would Ben something. But right now I see a guy with bust potential and maybe a low ceiling as well.

You're right, home run wasn't the correct statement there. RBI double might be better. I was thinking of the overall impact of both DSJ and OG on the court together when I made that statement though.

I had his stats mixed up with someone else's in my head for some reason. I was thinking he averaged 18ppg so you're right about his ceiling, although I'd give him a mid grade ceiling based on his defensive impact alone. Possible elite defenders who can knock down jump spots and guard multiple positions are becoming very valuable in this day and age. Especially with all the switching that's going on. Mbah a Moute is a good comp but he would have been much much more valuable to teams if he could have been hitting threes at an average clip for his career. I think OG has a little more offense to his game as well but there isn't a huge difference there. The biggest is his possible ability to his threes but even that is in question.

I'm just being realistic and looking for a role player out of the #10 pick. Unless the draft goes the way DX is mocking up with us taking Tatum and Smith, I just don't see any other player becoming really good out of that 10th pick. I'm sure I'll end up being wrong about that but I just can't see it right now. If we can wind up with a possible superstar at 5 and a good roleplayer that fits our need at 10, then to me that's a good draft. I just think the roster needs balance so I'd hate to wind up with DSJ and Markkanen, even further tilting the scales away from defense and toward offense. Getting Fox at 5 opens the door up for whoever we want at 10 since he should hopefully wind up being a two way player.

 

[funkykingston]

You're right, home run wasn't the correct statement there. RBI double might be better. I was thinking of the overall impact of both DSJ and OG on the court together when I made that statement though.

I had his stats mixed up with someone else's in my head for some reason. I was thinking he averaged 18ppg so you're right about his ceiling, although I'd give him a mid grade ceiling based on his defensive impact alone. Possible elite defenders who can knock down jump spots and guard multiple positions are becoming very valuable in this day and age. Especially with all the switching that's going on. Mbah a Moute is a good comp but he would have been much much more valuable to teams if he could have been hitting threes at an average clip for his career. I think OG has a little more offense to his game as well but there isn't a huge difference there. The biggest is his possible ability to his threes but even that is in question.

I'm just being realistic and looking for a role player out of the #10 pick. Unless the draft goes the way DX is mocking up with us taking Tatum and Smith, I just don't see any other player becoming really good out of that 10th pick. I'm sure I'll end up being wrong about that but I just can't see it right now. If we can wind up with a possible superstar at 5 and a good roleplayer that fits our need at 10, then to me that's a good draft. I just think the roster needs balance so I'd hate to wind up with DSJ and Markkanen, even further tilting the scales away from defense and toward offense. Getting Fox at 5 opens the door up for whoever we want at 10 since he should hopefully wind up being a two way player.

Yeah, honestly I'm not sure who is there at #10 that is an impact player.

If the Kings go SF at #5 (Jackson, Isaac, Tatum) then maybe Smith or Ntilikina or Monk or even Mitchell are options at #10. But I'm not sure any of those first three fall and I don't see Mitchell as a PG.

It's why I'd love to see the Kings trade up from #10 to #6-8 and why I'm warming to the idea of dealing both picks to move up for Fox at #3 or ideally Fultz at #1.

 

[206Fan]

Yeah, honestly I'm not sure who is there at #10 that is an impact player.

If the Kings go SF at #5 (Jackson, Isaac, Tatum) then maybe Smith or Ntilikina or Monk or even Mitchell are options at #10. But I'm not sure any of those first three fall and I don't see Mitchell as a PG.

It's why I'd love to see the Kings trade up from #10 to #6-8 and why I'm warming to the idea of dealing both picks to move up for Fox at #3 or ideally Fultz at #1.

I think there's going to be a lot of impactful players at #10.

Zach Collins who is a 2-way center.
Donovan Mitchell who could be a scoring guard.
Lauri Markkanen is a stretch 4 with untapped offensive potential
Justin Jackson could be a 2-way SF
Jarrett Allen could be a starting C
Isaiah Hartenstein is the ultimate upside player. Can shoot, pass, handle the ball, and rebound
Bam Adebayo is an energy big

If we drafted DSJ at 5, I think it would open the floodgates for any prospect at 10. I think his style of play fits next to any player.

 

[roasthawg]

Yeah, honestly I'm not sure who is there at #10 that is an impact player.

If the Kings go SF at #5 (Jackson, Isaac, Tatum) then maybe Smith or Ntilikina or Monk or even Mitchell are options at #10. But I'm not sure any of those first three fall and I don't see Mitchell as a PG.

It's why I'd love to see the Kings trade up from #10 to #6-8 and why I'm warming to the idea of dealing both picks to move up for Fox at #3 or ideally Fultz at #1.

I'd trade both picks for Jackson. I definitely would not for Fox and might not for Fultz.

Jackson imo is the guy most likely to win a lot of games. Worst case he's Andre igudola but he has kawhi upside.

 

[funkykingston]

I think there's going to be a lot of impactful players at #10.

Zach Collins who is a 2-way center.
Donovan Mitchell who could be a scoring guard.
Lauri Markkanen is a stretch 4 with untapped offensive potential
Justin Jackson could be a 2-way SF
Jarrett Allen could be a starting C
Isaiah Hartenstein is the ultimate upside player. Can shoot, pass, handle the ball, and rebound
Bam Adebayo is an energy big

If we drafted DSJ at 5, I think it would open the floodgates for any prospect at 10. I think his style of play fits next to any player.

I'm not high on Collins though I believe he'll have a long if not impactful NBA career.
I like Mitchell a lot but if he can't play the point then I'm not sure he's better (or significantly better I guess) than Hield, Richardson, Temple and potentially Bogdanovic
Markkanen has a set role in the NBA as a stretch 4/5. If he doesn't up his defense & rebounding and develop some semblance of a post game he's a situational player. If he DOES then he could be significantly more.
Justin Jackson seems like a low level starter or a nice bench SF. I wouldn't mind the pick but it doesn't really move the needle for me.
I'm not high on Allen. I don't like finesse bigs who can't shoot. I'd take Anigbogu over him for that same role as a rim protecting big who sets screens and gets his points as a roll man, in transition and on dump offs.
I haven't seen enough tape on Hartenstein. What I did see didn't have him jumping off the screen, but again, small sample.
I don't see what Bam brings as a rim running big that Papagiannis wouldn't and I think Papa has more upside.

I really like Ojeleye, Evans and Swanigan but I they'd likely be trade down targets.

Lots of options at 10 but barring a top prospect slipping, I'm not in love with any of them.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If the Kings go SF at #5 (Jackson, Isaac, Tatum) then maybe Smith or Ntilikina or Monk or even Mitchell are options at #10. But I'm not sure any of those first three fall and I don't see Mitchell as a PG.

I have my doubts about Mitchell as a PG as well. I keep coming back to Bibby, who was more of a scorer and not so great of a distributor, but Webber, Christie, Vlade and Miller were really picking up the slack on that end. Right now, I don't see anything resembling that sort of passing ability out of our rooks - maybe Temple and Bogdanovic could pick up some of it, but that's not enough. I feel like maybe Mitchell could hold down the PG if we could put better passing around him. I love his D, and he's going to be able to shoot and score. If we went with Tatum/Isaac at #5 and then Mitchell at #10, I could see it (even if Ntilikina or DSJ were still on the board) but I think we would then definitely be playing the waiting game to put together a team where everybody can really distribute, or we would really need to do a great job to mold the young 'uns we have right now into that sort of player.

 

[funkykingston]

I have my doubts about Mitchell as a PG as well. I keep coming back to Bibby, who was more of a scorer and not so great of a distributor, but Webber, Christie, Vlade and Miller were really picking up the slack on that end. Right now, I don't see anything resembling that sort of passing ability out of our rooks - maybe Temple and Bogdanovic could pick up some of it, but that's not enough. I feel like maybe Mitchell could hold down the PG if we could put better passing around him. I love his D, and he's going to be able to shoot and score. If we went with Tatum/Isaac at #5 and then Mitchell at #10, I could see it (even if Ntilikina or DSJ were still on the board) but I think we would then definitely be playing the waiting game to put together a team where everybody can really distribute, or we would really need to do a great job to mold the young 'uns we have right now into that sort of player.

It's worth noting that Bibby was a natural PG. He could always score and became more of a scorer in the NBA but he had a ton of experience running a team including at Arizona when he shared the backcourt with Miles Simon.

Very few guys who didn't play PG make a successful conversion once they are in the NBA.

 

[jcassio]

How do you think a backcourt duo of Smith and Hield would fare defensively? Hield is an average defender and Smith's weakness seems to be defensive intensity.

The same can be said about Fultz. But some on this forum would be willing to give the 5&10 and WCS to get Fultz.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Very few guys who didn't play PG make a successful conversion once they are in the NBA.

Travis Mays, Quincy Douby and Jimmer all come to mind. All failed Kings experiments.

 

[LA King Fan II]

The same can be said about Fultz. But some on this forum would be willing to give the 5&10 and WCS to get Fultz.

I would.....

but I'd like to get a pick between 20-30 somehow.

 

[Mike]

The same can be said about Fultz. But some on this forum would be willing to give the 5&10 and WCS to get Fultz.

If our front office believe Fultz can be special, but the players available at 5 and 10 can only be good players, and that WCS will only ever be a good player, then it is not hard to see why some might want to see that trade happen because to win in this league you need special players. Take Orlando for example. Since they traded Dwight Howard, every year they have seem to have been in a position where they are not in a position to draft a special talent:

- 2013: Victor Oladipo, 2nd overall. Weak draft class.
- 2014: Aaron Gordon, 4th overall. Embiid went third and looks like he could be the next special center if he can stay healthy. Parker has shown flashes of being potentially very good if he can stay healthy. Wiggins has been a prolific scorer.
- 2015: Mario Hezonja, 5th overall. Porzingis went the pick above him and he looks like he will be a special player for years to come. Okafor and Russell have been ok but are perhaps not special. KAT has obviously been special.

As you can see had they earned the 2nd overall pick in 2014 or 2015 they could have got themselves a special player, but instead they have only managed to draft good players and it is difficult to rebuild a side that can compete for titles if you only ever get good players. Even if you field a side with five good starters, but not an all star among them, the upside of such a team is fairly limited. So I can totally understand if our front office decided to be aggressive this off season and trade up if they believe they can acquire a special player in doing so, and that the players at 5, 10, and in this case Willie will only ever be good players. Granted we aren't in a position to give good players away for nothing, but I'd say it might be worth giving up three good players to get one special player because that's the kind of talent you want to be the center piece of your franchise going forwards.

Also consider this. If Fultz is special, then he would be paired with Buddy to form an impressive back court. We still have Skal who has tremendous upside and before he played in college was tipped to be a potential first overall pick, he slots nicely in at PF. At C we have Papagiannis and we drafted high 13th overall last season, he could become a pretty solid center if given the chance and the minutes. We could even go down the road of fielding a veteran small forward and center until we fill those positions at a later date and to make sure we have experience on the floor. Essentially if they feel they can get a special talent, then that might be more favorable than adding two good talents. Personally I think we can get a special player at five, so I wouldn't do this trade, but if I felt I was only getting good talent at 5 and 10 and WCS was only ever going to be a good center (i.e. not an all star or all nba player) and I could get a special talent for them (i.e. an all star and all NBA player) then I would be very tempted to do that deal.

 

[funkykingston]

The same can be said about Fultz. But some on this forum would be willing to give the 5&10 and WCS to get Fultz.

Fultz has the tools and ability to be a very high level defender.

 

[pshn80]

As I've suggested before has merit - no.10 to Portland for 15 and 20 and a big contract vet, they have several. I think there is quality at both 15 and 20 and a quality vet (though over paid) is a need we have. Take it to the bank.

 

[jcassio]

If our front office believe Fultz can be special, but the players available at 5 and 10 can only be good players, and that WCS will only ever be a good player, then it is not hard to see why some might want to see that trade happen because to win in this league you need special players. Take Orlando for example. Since they traded Dwight Howard, every year they have seem to have been in a position where they are not in a position to draft a special talent:

- 2013: Victor Oladipo, 2nd overall. Weak draft class.
- 2014: Aaron Gordon, 4th overall. Embiid went third and looks like he could be the next special center if he can stay healthy. Parker has shown flashes of being potentially very good if he can stay healthy. Wiggins has been a prolific scorer.
- 2015: Mario Hezonja, 5th overall. Porzingis went the pick above him and he looks like he will be a special player for years to come. Okafor and Russell have been ok but are perhaps not special. KAT has obviously been special.

As you can see had they earned the 2nd overall pick in 2014 or 2015 they could have got themselves a special player, but instead they have only managed to draft good players and it is difficult to rebuild a side that can compete for titles if you only ever get good players. Even if you field a side with five good starters, but not an all star among them, the upside of such a team is fairly limited. So I can totally understand if our front office decided to be aggressive this off season and trade up if they believe they can acquire a special player in doing so, and that the players at 5, 10, and in this case Willie will only ever be good players. Granted we aren't in a position to give good players away for nothing, but I'd say it might be worth giving up three good players to get one special player because that's the kind of talent you want to be the center piece of your franchise going forwards.

Also consider this. If Fultz is special, then he would be paired with Buddy to form an impressive back court. We still have Skal who has tremendous upside and before he played in college was tipped to be a potential first overall pick, he slots nicely in at PF. At C we have Papagiannis and we drafted high 13th overall last season, he could become a pretty solid center if given the chance and the minutes. We could even go down the road of fielding a veteran small forward and center until we fill those positions at a later date and to make sure we have experience on the floor. Essentially if they feel they can get a special talent, then that might be more favorable than adding two good talents. Personally I think we can get a special player at five, so I wouldn't do this trade, but if I felt I was only getting good talent at 5 and 10 and WCS was only ever going to be a good center (i.e. not an all star or all nba player) and I could get a special talent for them (i.e. an all star and all NBA player) then I would be very tempted to do that deal.

Who is going to disagree with that? It's only when we start evaluating those players and whether they are "good" or have true star potential that things get harder to agree on.

 

[jcassio]

Fultz has the tools and ability to be a very high level defender.

I agree. But he hasn't shown a consistent effort on D, and so there's a question mark. But make no mistake, I'd take Fultz in a heartbeat if I only had to give up the 5&10.

 

[funkykingston]

I agree. But he hasn't shown a consistent effort on D, and so there's a question mark. But make no mistake, I'd take Fultz in a heartbeat if I only had to give up the 5&10.

With DSJ the defensive lapses were much more frequent and egregious. But more than that, he just lacks the tools to be a good defender on the next level. And he (and Fox for now and possibly always) are one position defenders.

Fultz may have coasted at times (and I give him a bit of a pass because he had to do almost everything for Washington on offense) but he has the tools to guard both guard spots.