Dennis Schroder

S

smellfungus

Prospect
This guy has major game. His stock will only rise. I'd be shocked if he doesn't go top 10. I consider myself a bit of a talent evaluator when it comes to the draft. I think he could easily go top 3 or top 5. This will only become more apparent as the draft nears and even during summer league as he gets more exposure. He has star potential. 19 year old electric PG compared to Rondo (not quite that level, but his speed and handle are similar). Much more potential than IT and Tyreke. This is a guy who can be your lead guard and can be Cousins' sidekick. Join the bandwagon folks.
 
Preaching to the choir here.. love me some Schroeder.. Sick speed, wing span, shot, age, improvement, swag, the assist/turn isn't what I'd like in Europe but plenty have explained that is tilted over there. Other than Burke, and considering McLemore and Noel don't drop, no one else I want.. To me the other pg's in the draft are tweeners or kids with gaping holes... hopefully he remains a secret so he is still on the board
 
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I can't find enough game footage on the guy, but if we didn't have any options at our pick I wouldn't mind taking a shot on him if he were to come to the USA this year.
 
Gary said:
I can't find enough game footage on the guy, but if we didn't have any options at our pick I wouldn't mind taking a shot on him if he were to come to the USA this year.
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he majorly pissed off his current team, attending to draft things and coming back late for game prep and then compounded it by refusing to sub in late that very game. pretty sure he's not staying with them and there'd be no reason for him not to go to the NBA, if he's drafted in the first round.
 
im intrigued by this guy. i saw during the NBA combine that he's like 6'1-6'2 with a 6'8 wingspan. i wouldnt mind if we trade our 7th pick for a decent player and like a 15th-23rd pick and take schroeder
 
I watch tons of college basketball, and for that reason I only comment on players that I've seen play. I did see Schroeder play once, and that was in the USA vrs International game. To be honest, I didn't see enough of him to rave about him, or be disappointed by him. There are some posters that have seen him play whose opinions I respect, but I'll let them speak for themselves. My question to you, since some of you are excited about him, is have you actually seen him play, or are you just reading DraftExpress and forming an opinion based on someone else's opinion? Just curious!
 
I posted this in the other thread, but I'll just reiterate that I have absolutely zero respect for the plethora of people out there who profess to be scouting experts when they primarily read articles. You can't even automatically respect someone's opinion just because they've seen a guy play.

To me, the eyeball test is paramount. If you can't do that then you might as well hitch your wagon to exclusively following advanced stats cause you'll never hack it as a talent evaluator. I'm a proponent of advanced stats no doubt, but my real passion is the eyeball test.

And to that I will add that yes, my opinions are only based on footage, what I can see and interpret myself.
 
bajaden said:
I watch tons of college basketball, and for that reason I only comment on players that I've seen play. I did see Schroeder play once, and that was in the USA vrs International game. To be honest, I didn't see enough of him to rave about him, or be disappointed by him. There are some posters that have seen him play whose opinions I respect, but I'll let them speak for themselves. My question to you, since some of you are excited about him, is have you actually seen him play, or are you just reading DraftExpress and forming an opinion based on someone else's opinion? Just curious!
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I think for me its both a combination of liking him and not liking this draft. I've gotten my opinion from reading write ups about him from respected scouting sources, watching the 4 vids on him on NBAdraft, and listening to some other posters (other forums) opinions that I respect who have said that he could be the steal of this draft. 4 clips I think are sufficient, in addition to reading up on him, to understand he has incredible speed to go with a good body 6'1-6'2.. A large wingspan, can play quality D (due speed, length).. has a solid and improving jumpshot (40% Euro 3pt).. is 2 years younger than Carter-Williams. There is nothing wrong with Schroeder, its just a guess as to whether it translates to the NBA. In addition, I don't really care for the rest of the draft as much as others.. I don't like scoring tweeners like McCollum, or offensively-deficient players like Carter-williams.. I like Len but he is already experiencing health concerns, the rest of the big men I don't think can play both ends of the court solidly at this level. Oladipo, while intriguing, is a project.
 
smellfungus said:
I posted this in the other thread, but I'll just reiterate that I have absolutely zero respect for the plethora of people out there who profess to be scouting experts when they primarily read articles. You can't even automatically respect someone's opinion just because they've seen a guy play.

To me, the eyeball test is paramount. If you can't do that then you might as well hitch your wagon to exclusively following advanced stats cause you'll never hack it as a talent evaluator. I'm a proponent of advanced stats no doubt, but my real passion is the eyeball test.

And to that I will add that yes, my opinions are only based on footage, what I can see and interpret myself.
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This is pretty insulting, don't you think? There are very few people on this forum who claim to be experts. Some ARE experts for sure but to claim it when they aren't is a rare phenomena. So far you are the only one to claim to be an expert and you have proven nothing to any of us no matter what you say.

There certainly are many who have opinions based on what they read. I do that all the time. I don't enjoy college basketball so won't watch it. Also, if I have an opinion, I throw in the caveat of how I came to that conclusion. I don't claim to be an expert and far from it. I also think I can take many other people's opinions and come up with reasonable ideas. Some of these people who write for a living can be trusted and some cannot. I agree that nothing is better than the eye test but I will bet money that there are few on this forum who watch much college basketball, much less European basketball.

We have to get our opinions somewhere and if you limit the legitimate views to only those who watch boatloads of college ball, you narrow it down to one person or two if you are to be believed.

There is nothing wrong with reading and drawing conclusions. We have a team absolutely devoid of defense except for a choice few. If I read 5 well known writers who say that a certain player plays great defense, I will be high on him especially if it is a choice between him and an out and out scorer.

I have yet to see anyone convince me that using our 7th pick on a 19 year old kid playing in a weak league should be a priority. Now if this 19 year old kid was the starting PG for Kentucky, I would pay more attention whether I had seen him or not. I also seem to part company with many people who want a guard. We have a lot of guards and if we draft one, he better be darn good. A young kid who would be a stretch at the 7th pick in a poor draft doesn't impress me. Of course I can be wrong. We all can be wrong. I just think that odds are that at the 7th pick, we won't come up with much of anything much less a 19 year old wunderkind.

Your arrogance, especially the way you put down others, bugs me and makes me less likely to take your word for anything. People who have knowledge do not have to belittle others. They simply say what they see and what they think of it.
 
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Glenn said:
This is pretty insulting, don't you think? There are very few people on this forum who claim to be experts. Some ARE experts for sure but to claim it when they aren't is a rare phenomena. So far you are the only one to claim to be an expert and you have proven nothing to any of us no matter what you say.

There certainly are many who have opinions based on what they read. I do that all the time. I don't enjoy college basketball so won't watch it. Also, if I have an opinion, I throw in the caveat of how I came to that conclusion. I don't claim to be an expert and far from it. I also think I can take many other people's opinions and come up with reasonable ideas. Some of these people who write for a living can be trusted and some cannot. I agree that nothing is better than the eye test but I will bet money that there are few on this forum who watch much college basketball, much less European basketball.

We have to get our opinions somewhere and if you limit the legitimate views to only those who watch boatloads of college ball, you narrow it down to one person or two if you are to be believed.

There is nothing wrong with reading and drawing conclusions. We have a team absolutely devoid of defense except for a choice few. If I read 5 well known writers who say that a certain player plays great defense, I will be high on him especially if it is a choice between him and an out and out scorer.

I have yet to see anyone convince me that using our 7th pick on a 19 year old kid playing in a weak league should be a priority. Now if this 19 year old kid was the starting PG for Kentucky, I would pay more attention whether I had seen him or not. I also seem to part company with many people who want a guard. We have a lot of guards and if we draft one, he better be darn good. A young kid who would be a stretch at the 7th pick in a poor draft doesn't impress me. Of course I can be wrong. We all can be wrong. I just think that odds are that at the 7th pick, we won't come up with much of anything much less a 19 year old wunderkind.

Your arrogance, especially the way you put down others, bugs me and makes me less likely to take your word for anything. People who have knowledge do not have to belittle others. They simply say what they see and what they think of it.
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My apologies, sir. I didn't mean to belittle anyone's opinion. My comment was in response to someone asking me if I only base my opinion on reading articles. And I certainly don't watch a lot of college ball myself. I don't think it takes a lot of footage to get a feel for a prospect, either. But surely you can agree that watching some video is better than none at all? I guess that's all I was trying to say.
 
smellfungus said:
My apologies, sir. I didn't mean to belittle anyone's opinion. My comment was in response to someone asking me if I only base my opinion on reading articles. And I certainly don't watch a lot of college ball myself. I don't think it takes a lot of footage to get a feel for a prospect, either. But surely you can agree that watching some video is better than none at all? I guess that's all I was trying to say.
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Thanks. I actually agree a lot with what you just said but that's because I have very little else to go on but a brief glimpse in one or two games. This year I have watched no college games and the videos I have watched have not shown me much that helps me. Videos are usually high light videos and therefore skewed towards the great plays. I don't watch much but there is one person who thinks you need to watch far more than either you and I think and that is bajaden. When he speaks, we listen. :) And if that makes baja's cheeks turn pink, good!!
 
smellfungus said:
I posted this in the other thread, but I'll just reiterate that I have absolutely zero respect for the plethora of people out there who profess to be scouting experts when they primarily read articles. You can't even automatically respect someone's opinion just because they've seen a guy play.

To me, the eyeball test is paramount. If you can't do that then you might as well hitch your wagon to exclusively following advanced stats cause you'll never hack it as a talent evaluator. I'm a proponent of advanced stats no doubt, but my real passion is the eyeball test.

And to that I will add that yes, my opinions are only based on footage, what I can see and interpret myself.
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I think you'll find that some of the people who post the best scouting reports here at KF are well equipped to do the job. We even have a couple of folks who attend Summer League and give regular reports.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I think for me its both a combination of liking him and not liking this draft. I've gotten my opinion from reading write ups about him from respected scouting sources, watching the 4 vids on him on NBAdraft, and listening to some other posters (other forums) opinions that I respect who have said that he could be the steal of this draft. 4 clips I think are sufficient, in addition to reading up on him, to understand he has incredible speed to go with a good body 6'1-6'2.. A large wingspan, can play quality D (due speed, length).. has a solid and improving jumpshot (40% Euro 3pt).. is 2 years younger than Carter-Williams. There is nothing wrong with Schroeder, its just a guess as to whether it translates to the NBA. In addition, I don't really care for the rest of the draft as much as others.. I don't like scoring tweeners like McCollum, or offensively-deficient players like Carter-williams.. I like Len but he is already experiencing health concerns, the rest of the big men I don't think can play both ends of the court solidly at this level. Oladipo, while intriguing, is a project.
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Well I was in total agreement with most of what you said until you said that Oladipo was project. I believe that Porter and Oladipo are two of the players in this draft that aren't projects. I'm not sure what either of them would have to do to convince you of that. Again, I can't speak to Schroeder with any confidence. I respect the breakdown videos from DraftExpress, but once again, nothng replaces watching actual games. If someone can give me a source for aquiring games of Schroeder it would be appreciated, because I've had no luck in that dept.

Let me throw in one more thing. DraftExpress is probably the best scouting source out there thats free. I've read some of the reports, and I disagree with some of them. Thats just my opinion vrs theirs. Not everyone see's things the same way. I tend to look for the positives and some people look for the negatives. I don't ignore the negatives, but my question with any player is do they do at least one thing that makes them special, and do I disregard that talent because perhaps, his ballhandling is a little suspect, or his lateral movement isn't up to snuff. Some things can be fixed, and some can't. Its difficult to make a player jump higher or run faster. But lateral quickness can be improved by simply knowing the other players game. There have been players that are outstanding at keeping their man in front of them, but I would bet you some of those players would post less than stellar times in the agility test at the combine. They simply have great instincts about where their man is going next.

My point is, combine testing is useful, like an IQ test is useful, but it can't measure everything. And you certainly shouldn't let it influence what you already know about a player by watching him play.
 
smellfungus said:
This guy has major game. His stock will only rise. I'd be shocked if he doesn't go top 10. I consider myself a bit of a talent evaluator when it comes to the draft. I think he could easily go top 3 or top 5. This will only become more apparent as the draft nears and even during summer league as he gets more exposure. He has star potential. 19 year old electric PG compared to Rondo (not quite that level, but his speed and handle are similar). Much more potential than IT and Tyreke. This is a guy who can be your lead guard and can be Cousins' sidekick. Join the bandwagon folks.
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I've never seen the kid play. But from what I've read the experts seem to think he's a very talented kid with decent upside. I personally wouldn't take him at 7, but if we traded back to a mid to late first round pick and he was on the board he'd be worth considering.

As for top three I don't see it. The Cavs will probably go for a big or forward; Magic like Burke and McLemore; and Wizards need a forward. Charlotte at four don't need a point guard, and I'm not convinced the Suns do either. So personally I can't see him going top five. Top ten is more possible, though I see him going late teens.
 
Mike said:
I've never seen the kid play. But from what I've read the experts seem to think he's a very talented kid with decent upside. I personally wouldn't take him at 7, but if we traded back to a mid to late first round pick and he was on the board he'd be worth considering.

As for top three I don't see it. The Cavs will probably go for a big or forward; Magic like Burke and McLemore; and Wizards need a forward. Charlotte at four don't need a point guard, and I'm not convinced the Suns do either. So personally I can't see him going top five. Top ten is more possible, though I see him going late teens.
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When I said top 3 I meant my own, I didn't mean mock draft.

And with the lateral quicks thing, I think it's very important to being a defender. I can't think of too many players off the top of my head who have poor lateral quicks but are good on-ball defenders. For example Derozan has very poor lateral quicks and he's a poor man defender. In the draft, Oladipo has incredible lateral quicks (as does Schroeder), whereas Porter has poor lateral quicks.
 
bajaden said:
Well I was in total agreement with most of what you said until you said that Oladipo was project. I believe that Porter and Oladipo are two of the players in this draft that aren't projects. I'm not sure what either of them would have to do to convince you of that. Again, I can't speak to Schroeder with any confidence. I respect the breakdown videos from DraftExpress, but once again, nothng replaces watching actual games. If someone can give me a source for aquiring games of Schroeder it would be appreciated, because I've had no luck in that dept.

Let me throw in one more thing. DraftExpress is probably the best scouting source out there thats free. I've read some of the reports, and I disagree with some of them. Thats just my opinion vrs theirs. Not everyone see's things the same way. I tend to look for the positives and some people look for the negatives. I don't ignore the negatives, but my question with any player is do they do at least one thing that makes them special, and do I disregard that talent because perhaps, his ballhandling is a little suspect, or his lateral movement isn't up to snuff. Some things can be fixed, and some can't. Its difficult to make a player jump higher or run faster. But lateral quickness can be improved by simply knowing the other players game. There have been players that are outstanding at keeping their man in front of them, but I would bet you some of those players would post less than stellar times in the agility test at the combine. They simply have great instincts about where their man is going next.

My point is, combine testing is useful, like an IQ test is useful, but it can't measure everything. And you certainly shouldn't let it influence what you already know about a player by watching him play.
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About Oladipo being a project, I just meant there are aspects of his game that need a lot of improvement if he's going to be a superb player on both ends in this league. I like him, and as I said in the top 5 thread, considering McLemore and Noel are taken, after Burke and Schroeder I want Dipo.. I respect your position on game film Baja, I know that your opinion on the draft is highly valued on this board. When I said I watch clips, I'm not being amazed at the field goal % or best-play highlights I'm seeing, just that in 5 minute clips I feel as if I can analyze athleticism, instinct, personality, how sufficiently someone goes right/left, form, awareness on the floor and of teammates etc... but your right, nothing compares to a full game where you can pick up more in depth nuances of the game.. If your able to get a hold of one of Dennis' games it will be interesting to hear what you think
 
Kingsfan23 said:
About Oladipo being a project, I just meant there are aspects of his game that need a lot of improvement if he's going to be a superb player on both ends in this league. I like him, and as I said in the top 5 thread, considering McLemore and Noel are taken, after Burke and Schroeder I want Dipo.. I respect your position on game film Baja, I know that your opinion on the draft is highly valued on this board. When I said I watch clips, I'm not being amazed at the field goal % or best-play highlights I'm seeing, just that in 5 minute clips I feel as if I can analyze athleticism, instinct, personality, how sufficiently someone goes right/left, form, awareness on the floor and of teammates etc... but your right, nothing compares to a full game where you can pick up more in depth nuances of the game.. If your able to get a hold of one of Dennis' games it will be interesting to hear what you think
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Well, so far I haven't been able to find any complete games of Schroeder. There's plenty of vidio on him, but like most video, other than perhaps DraftExpress, it mostly shows the good things and not the bad. As for Oladipo having some holes in his game, your right, but I don't think there's a player in this draft that doesn't have holes in his game somewhere. I happen to put heart and desire way up there on my chart, and thats where McLemore falls a little short with me. There were many games, even in the Tourney, where he just seemed to disappear at times. You could say he's being very unselfish, and I'm sure there's some of that, but when your one of the best players on your team, you have to step up at some point.

I remember sitting and watching a game with Uncia03 and telling him how much I liked McLemore. And halfway through the game, he turned to me and basicly said, well, when is he going to do something? I had no answer. Not saying its not a correctable trait, but it is concerning. No one can ever say that about Oladipo.
 
bajaden said:
Well, so far I haven't been able to find any complete games of Schroeder. There's plenty of vidio on him, but like most video, other than perhaps DraftExpress, it mostly shows the good things and not the bad. As for Oladipo having some holes in his game, your right, but I don't think there's a player in this draft that doesn't have holes in his game somewhere. I happen to put heart and desire way up there on my chart, and thats where McLemore falls a little short with me. There were many games, even in the Tourney, where he just seemed to disappear at times. You could say he's being very unselfish, and I'm sure there's some of that, but when your one of the best players on your team, you have to step up at some point.

I remember sitting and watching a game with Uncia03 and telling him how much I liked McLemore. And halfway through the game, he turned to me and basicly said, well, when is he going to do something? I had no answer. Not saying its not a correctable trait, but it is concerning. No one can ever say that about Oladipo.
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it's really not worth trying to look for them, too. mentioned it elsewhere, Sport1 (the one TV station carrying BBL games) usually broadcasts 1 game per week, if at all. those few broadcasts of course only feature the "marquee" franchises we have, meaning Bamberg, Berlin and Bayern München, or two other playoff teams going against each other, derbys like Oldenburg vs. Quakenbrück for instance. since Braunschweig has been aggressively mediocre this season, they weren't featured once, as far as I recall. the snippets you see in the draftexpress videos must be either from last year, or dx must've paid to get them from the organisation itself. it's very, very unlikely that those kind of videos are ever going to leak, though, so be prepared to wait until next season to see Schröder in a real game.
 
bajaden said:
Well, so far I haven't been able to find any complete games of Schroeder. There's plenty of vidio on him, but like most video, other than perhaps DraftExpress, it mostly shows the good things and not the bad. As for Oladipo having some holes in his game, your right, but I don't think there's a player in this draft that doesn't have holes in his game somewhere. I happen to put heart and desire way up there on my chart, and thats where McLemore falls a little short with me. There were many games, even in the Tourney, where he just seemed to disappear at times. You could say he's being very unselfish, and I'm sure there's some of that, but when your one of the best players on your team, you have to step up at some point.

I remember sitting and watching a game with Uncia03 and telling him how much I liked McLemore. And halfway through the game, he turned to me and basicly said, well, when is he going to do something? I had no answer. Not saying its not a correctable trait, but it is concerning. No one can ever say that about Oladipo.
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If McLemore somehow fell to #7 I'd expect the Kings to draft him, but you hit on my concern with him. At the least I think he can be a decent to good defender and hit open shots, but does he have the drive to be a major player? Because other than less than ideal height, he has the tools.

Oladipo is, on paper at least, a worse fit with Cousins and Evans than McLemore (or Porter, or Noel or even McCollum) but if he fell to #7 I'd be screaming at my TV to take him. He's a guy that won't fail. He may not be a star but he'll max out what he's capable of and give you great effort.
 
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