Demarcus Freaking Cousins

[mac]

I guess it's personal opinion, but I don't think thats holding him personally accountable for what he is.. He's played every position here, this is his fourth year, I really doubt he's just going to go to another team and be something he hasn't been here. There just seems to be a divide on this board about how to view under-performing players. It might be a half-empty half-full thing, or it might just be upbringing. Some folks on here will just exscuse players bad play on coaching, ownership, whatever else until their out of the league, and some like me and LWP777 (I think) and others don't like players not held accountable.. I guess its just opinion

And some realise that it's a mixture of both. The problem (in case you haven't realised) is we're the Sacramento Kings. We don't have star players banging on our doors begging to join the team. So anytime we get lucky and have a chance at grabbing or developing a star player, we better hold on to it with our lives. And there is no question that both Evans and Cousins have the potential to be star players. Sure, they both need lots of polishing up and refining in their games, but that's where coaching plays a big role as well. Coaching is important for two reasons: 1) the obvious direct development of a player's skillset and understanding of the game and 2) defining clear targets and improvements that players are supposed to achieve through their own work in the offseason. As far as reports have shown, neither of the two have been well-executed.

Now of course, you're right, at the end of the day it's up to the player to go out and play. And if we really wanted to we could all just sit around and b*tch about how our whole team sucks and how DMC and Evans will never be star players etc. But ask yourself - what other choice do we really have if you actually want to have a successful team in the years to come? Sure, Patterson and Hayes may win you one game now, but are you going to build a team around them? Maybe you firmly believe that Evans and DMC don't have potential and you want to trade them. Well ... at this moment you're not going to get much in return, to be frank. Certainly not players that you can build your team around. For the team that trades for them on the other hand it's a low risk high reward move. Give away junk, get an intriguing player that maybe you can develop into said star player. Worst case scenario is you just gave Jared Sullinger away. We on the other hand, only stand to lose in such a situation unless we're trading for draft picks and somehow get lucky. Doesn't it make more sense to hold on to what we've got, and give it some time under a good coach that we're all hoping for next season? I mean anyone can see that Keith Smart is not a good coach. Anyone can see that just as we started to play better back in 2011 we let go of key pieces. So while you are 100% correct in saying that we should hold players accountable, I encourage you to also try to see the bigger picture. If we really wanted to live in the here and now then all I can say is we're ****ing doomed because like some have pointed out, our "star" players don't play like stars on a consistent basis. But honestly and objectively speaking, they are the best chance that we are going to get, period.

 

[hrdboild]

It's the misfortune of people without any imagination to only see the world as it's already been. I've read comments for years about how Tyreke Evans would never shoot 35% from three. Never. Guess what? He's doing it right now. At age 23. Cousins has been getting steadily better in almost every facet of the game for three years now and still every bad game is a reason to give up on a guy that most NBA analysts agree has "best C in the league" potential. Day to day the results are mixed but if you're keeping an eye on the big picture, there are still plenty of reasons to be optimistic about both of them. I'm not terribly disappointed with either of them up to this point because I've seen the disaster of a roster that's been assembled around them -- I've seen it and criticized Petrie for it long before the games actually started -- and the complete lack of a consistent developmental plan from the organization. Do you think Demarcus has forgotten that the team issued a statement in support of Coach Westphal when the coach basically begged the front office to trade him? Do you think Tyreke has forgotten that Coach Smart promised he only made him play off the ball at SF for half a season for the sole purpose of making him a better PG and then refused to give him the ball again this year? If I remember those moments as a fan of the team, I guarantee you that they remember them as well. I don't care who you are, everyone has good days and bad days. Choosing to see only one or the other is just that, a choice. And it's a far stronger reflection on the mindset of the observer than that of the observed.

 

[Kingsnbucs1987]

What it comes down to is that people have already made their stand on how they feel about the player and they're not gonna back down. On the whole situation, I feel that if your organization is unstable, how do you expect your players to grow from it. If you're getting jerked around all the time whether it be moving from one position to another and to another, do you see other teams move guards and have them play Small forward or even Power forward. Or rotations, how can you expect a player to get better if they don't even know when they're going to play, look at last night, Smart runs with the bench for all of the 4th quarter, but in the last 1 or 2 he decides to put in Reke who's sat for probably 30-40 minutes real time and you expect him to win that game for you in the last seconds. How can you expect your players to grow and be professional, when the organization around them can't. Somebody brought how D. Wade didn't act like this on Miami when they won only 15 games, didn't they come off a championship before that and isn't their organization really good and they don't try to nickle and dime their team and fans with bad trades that hamstrings the team and gives up valuable pieces for half the price. You put Keith Smart's wacky rotations where Wade sits for no reason and I bet you'll he wouldn't act that professional. I'm not absolving the players from blame, cause they have work on their game and improve, but it's hard to improve when your organization and coach set you to fail. You see teams with structure getting better and improving and teams with bad coaching and management, well you get the Kings. I'm saying we'd be challenging for a title, but we'd be at least fighting for a 7th or 8th seed.

Just my 2 cents

 

[jayfly]

Cousins gave zero effort last night

Cousins vs Warriors

Can't score on a bad defender in Lee, gets blocked by Andrew Bogut who clearly is nowhere near 100% who can't jump and barely moves, than to top it all off gets rejected by a undersized C who was a 2nd round draft pick and than gets beat out for position and that same rookie scores an and1 on him. But im sure according to everyone on this forum he was great cause he HAD 4 STEALS, at least he didn't give up lmao we will just ignore the 2-10 on bad shots taking it soft.

in b4: it was Smarts fault, he was fouled, the team sucks, he still had a positive impact, he tried hard he was just missing easy shots.

The one thing Bogut is doing well is blocking shots and defending so your point there is wrong. Elezi is 7-1 260 or so, did not realize that is undersized so again your point there is wrong. The and 1 was a complete miracle shot but yes he did turn his head and Ezeli beat him to the spot.

That said, Cousins was awful lat night. I was at the game, it was a nice scrappy effort by the Kings, eccept for Cousins. It was obvious from the pregame introductions that he did not want to be there and it showed in his game. The only thing he did with any energy was give his teammates dirty looks when they screwed up or did not give him the ball.

 

[Darth Divac]

Ah, DMC...He's the fourth-best center in the league, and he's barely even trying...Goodness knows he'd be an MVP candidate if not for that putrid attitude.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Elezi is 7-1 260 or so, did not realize that is undersized so again your point there is wrong.

Ezeli measured out at 6'11.5" in shoes (6'9.75" barefoot) - that's 1/4 of an inch taller than Cousins, but not 7'1".

 

[jayfly]

Oh my bad, but not undersized at all. When they stood next to each other about 15 feet in front of me it appeared Ezeli had about 2 inches on Cousins.

 

[KingMilz]

Ah, DMC...He's the fourth-best center in the league, and he's barely even trying...Goodness knows he'd be an MVP candidate if not for that putrid attitude.

This season no he has not been the #4th best Centre

Marc Gasol
Jockim Noah
Al Horford (I think hes a PF but he has to play C)
Al Jefferson
Brook Lopez

Have all been far more consistant and put up numbers better or as good as Cousins all with better FG%

Other guys you could argue would be Howard, Monroe although I don't think ethier have been better than DMC

Has he at some points of the season been top #5 yeap no doubt but overall as of right now during the whole year no. Dude should be a lot better than what hes played like this season.

 

[KingMilz]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1558504-nba-players-embarassing-themselves-this-season#/articles/1558504-nba-players-embarassing-themselves-this-season/page/8

''NBA Players Embarassing Themselves This Season''

Based purely on statistics, DeMarcus Cousins is having a pretty solid 2012-13 season. He is averaging 16.8 points, 9.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists per game, which are good numbers, even with his pedestrian shooting percentage of 44.6 percent.

However, the game is about more than just numbers, and Cousins has continued to be a hothead who struggles putting the team above himself and not making questionable, impulsive decisions on the floor. In addition to his 11 technicals, Cousins has been ejected from three games.

Perhaps, in time, Cousins could emerge as the All-Star player he is capable of being, but he will likely suffer several more humiliating campaigns like 2012-13.

Just took the main points of the article out and I have to say its pretty spot on.

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm going to avoid the last sentence as I have never been convinced that they alone can lead us anywhere. My personal opinion is that Tyreke's game has been hurt by Smart whether it is trying to make him into a SF or sitting him for extensive periods of time. It still is a team game and we have not only a bad coach but a dysfunctional team structure whose ownership has abandoned them. If you don't think that makes a difference, we just simply disagree.

What I am wondering, and I think it isn't the same old garbage discussed over and over, is if anyone else thinks their game has deteriorated. Unless we agree this is so, none of the rest is worth discussing.

I totally agree that Reke and Cuz (along with the rest of our team) have been severely mis-managed and used incorrectly for years now. Anyone with half an eyeball can see that. Still, to me at least, guys who are our supposed "franchise players" should not be quitting on the team and giving less than 100% effort on the floor. No matter how bad our coach/owners/gm are. We never have to question IT or JT's effort when they play. Whatever limitations their basketball skills are, we always know they are giving 100% when on the floor. We certainly can not say the same for Reke and Cuz, which is my main concern and a real issue

 

[mac]

I totally agree that Reke and Cuz (along with the rest of our team) have been severely mis-managed and used incorrectly for years now. Anyone with half an eyeball can see that. Still, to me at least, guys who are our supposed "franchise players" should not be quitting on the team and giving less than 100% effort on the floor. No matter how bad our coach/owners/gm are. We never have to question IT or JT's effort when they play. Whatever limitations their basketball skills are, we always know they are giving 100% when on the floor. We certainly can not say the same for Reke and Cuz, which is my main concern and a real issue

At the same time, you have to realise they can get away with it while IT can't. IT has to bring it every night or he won't be in the league long. Cuz? Not so much, not yet at least. A better comparison would be with similarly talented young players who still compete hard every night. Maybe Irving or someone like him.

 

[spudfan]

What it comes down to is that people have already made their stand on how they feel about the player and they're not gonna back down.

I see this as the main disconnect. Kingsfan23 says it might be a glass half full/half empty or upbringing thing and I have to agree with him. As you say it comes down to that people have already made their stand on how they feel... but that really is not the case for a lot for us. Some of us see it as not being over until it's over, and don't feel comfortable dealing in absolutes and haven't made up our minds yet. Our minds remain open to the possibility of further development. The more demonstrative personalities know they are right, and don't let any room for discussion or debate. Cousins will never grow up, Tyreke will never be able to shoot, Jimmer will never be able dribble. One side doesn't see how people can predict a players entire career as it is just starting and the other can't see how people can justify wasting time on talent they know, through experience, will most likely never work out. Luckily having these two kinds of people here in masses leads to great (some times mind numbing) discussion.

Long live the Kings.

 

[The_Jamal]

At the same time, you have to realise they can get away with it while IT can't. IT has to bring it every night or he won't be in the league long. Cuz? Not so much, not yet at least. A better comparison would be with similarly talented young players who still compete hard every night. Maybe Irving or someone like him.

I'm not saying IT or JT are anywhere near the talent level of Cuz or Reke, but that doesn't mean they can't still play with the same intensity that those guys do on a nightly basis. Stars are stars because they are the best talents in the NBA and the work harder than anyone on the floor. Reke and Cuz shouldn't be excused from giving their best efforts because of a ****ty coach/gm/owners. That's the point I'm trying to make

 

[bajaden]

I'm not saying IT or JT are anywhere near the talent level of Cuz or Reke, but that doesn't mean they can't still play with the same intensity that those guys do on a nightly basis. Stars are stars because they are the best talents in the NBA and the work harder than anyone on the floor. Reke and Cuz shouldn't be excused from giving their best efforts because of a ****ty coach/gm/owners. That's the point I'm trying to make

I agree with you, and to some extent, Mac. Stars are stars because they first have the talent, and secondly they put in the work to get as much as they can from their talent. However, there is a reason that in general, people that grow up in the poor neighborhoods are less successful than those that grow up in the high rent district. Their victims of their inviorment. They don't live in a culture of success. The same is true to some extent in the NBA. Its damm hard to get yourself movitated night after night, when you continually lose. When you try and do whats right on the floor, but you have teammates that could care less, and only care about personally looking good.

Thats not an excuse. Its still up to the individual to rise to the occasion. But on one hand, were criticizing Cousins for being immature, and on the other hand, expecting him to act like a mature person. One does not beget the other. Take Cousins off this team and put him on the Celtics, where he's surrounded by players that know how to play the game, and are used to winning, and you'd see a different player in a short period of time. I've never understood how people can call Cousins a thug, or immature, or a big baby with a bad temper, can then, if they really believe those things are true, criticize him for being what they described on occasion.

Yes, Cousins is immature at times, and at the same time he wants to win. Those two traits don't blend together well at times. What does a child do when he doesn't get his way? He throws a tantrum. If handled properly, as the child grows up he realizes that there are better ways to accomplish what he desires. Or, you can just keep beating the child, and get a different result. One you probably won't like. We here live in a cyber world of people, who for the most part have no age, gender, or face. Just an avator represents them. And amongst that group, your going to get people just as immature as Cousins, criticizing Cousins. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. So we have an imperfect format here. Birds of a feather, if you know what I mean.

In Cousins case, if you have a child, or even a dog that has developed bad habits, you teach him new habits as you break the old ones. I have found that reward works better than just constant criticism. And I don't mean ignoring the bad habits, but reward for doing whats right, and punishment for doing whats wrong, with explaination!!!! As far as basketball goes, some players might not be worth the effort. But in Cousins case, he is worth the effort. But first you have to bring in the right person for the job. You don't hire an auto mechanic for brain surgery. A bit extreme, but not as much as you would think.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

well lets see how he bounces back. Gortat is out, so hes going against Scola at the Center. if he doesn't eat the suns frontline for lunch i will be very surprised

 

[Glenn]

I would tell him he is going to play 40 minutes and he is to rip his opponent a new a$$hole. Kind of like JWill, I am beginning to wonder if his soul is being taken away from him. That's very poetic I think. What I mean is he has been asked to be something very different than what comes naturally. He has changed far more than I thought possible externally. Certainly he needs to control himself but the rapidity of change is just too much. How do you make your mannerisms and mouth be something entirely different than what comes naturally and what is going on under the surface? I don't know how long it would take me to become a different person and retain my efficiency but I know it would take longer than a few years. I swear I'd rather have him going full bore and get a tech than what I have seen. The eventual goal is to have him adjust and fly under the refs radar as that is what he has to do. Let's not demand it of him so quickly. At least we now have a big guy to stuff into the center position if he gets into foul trouble.

If we demand change of him so quickly, let us realize it takes a lot of conscious effort and his game may suffer.

I think I make sense at least to myself. Ha!

 

[mac]

I'm not saying IT or JT are anywhere near the talent level of Cuz or Reke, but that doesn't mean they can't still play with the same intensity that those guys do on a nightly basis. Stars are stars because they are the best talents in the NBA and the work harder than anyone on the floor. Reke and Cuz shouldn't be excused from giving their best efforts because of a ****ty coach/gm/owners. That's the point I'm trying to make

No you're right that Reke and Cuz shouldn't be excused from giving their best efforts. All I'm saying is, to make that point it would be better to compare them with other guys of similar talent, because in the case of guys like IT there is additional motivation to play hard. I guess what I'm saying is that everybody wants to win - and that's motivation #1. Now you have our team situation and noob coach etc. and that can kill motivation #1, because you get yanked even when you do play hard and when you don't, just because your coach is a dumbdumb who has a pal from his hometown on the team. Take the Warriors game - Cuz wasn't playing well by any measure, but it's not like he wasn't out there trying to battle or anything, and then he ends up with barely 25 minutes for the game. These sort of things can give players the feeling that despite their best efforts, they are not going to win or see PT because of the coach and other factors.

Now comes motivation #2, and here is the point I'm trying to make. Really talented players give 100% because other than wanting to win, they want to be great players. The not-so-talented ones give 100% because they'd be out of a job if they didn't. Now with regards to Evans in particular, I feel that the problem is he doesn't have the drive to be a great player. As a result, he's also a great team guy. Seriously, how many superstar players have been known to be super nice team mates? The real greats are arrogant ***es, but it's precisely that arrogance and the belief that their teams can't win without them that make them great. Keith Smart's "team without stars" philosophy is quite self-fulfilling if you ask me. Don't treat any of your guys like stars and you won't have any of them develop to be ones.

Argh I'm blabbering. Here's an attempt to summarize what I mean:
Sometimes it helps to step away and remember that although these guys are getting paid millions of dollars, they are human beings just like us. I don't know about you, but if I can't stand my boss and the working environment it'll only be a matter of time before I start producing subpar quality work. Is that wrong of me? Yes. Is it human/natural? Yes. If I wouldn't be able to get another job, would I risk getting fired by producing subpar work? Probably not so much. If I was sure that even if I got fired someone else would want me, I probably wouldn't be as driven to give my best in my current istuation.

 

[upinsmoke]

Cousins is a complete Jerk FWIW in regards to your point MAC