DeMarcus defense

[bajaden]

I really enjoyed his defense last night where he wasn't even in the frame because he was too busy pissing and moaning at the other end of the floor while the Spurs took advantage...on some pivotal possessions I might add...actually all possessions are pivotal when you are giving away free points. he needs to pull his head out of his ass and stop this crap because this is accomplishing nothing except giving away points to the other team

I wasn't going to bring this up, but since someone did, I'll comment on it. This is my biggest pet peeve with Cousins. Every game I count how many times the other team gets down the floor and either scores before Cousins appears, or scores as Cousins is arriving into the picture. Last night I counted 11 times. There were a couple of other times when he did get back, but the team was already in a confused state trying to make up for his absence. But I didn't include those in my figures.

Now to be fair, because it's on television, I can only see what they show me. Of the 11 times, I can only confirm 7 times he was arguing with an official. The other 4 times I have no idea. He simply wasn't there. He could have fallen down for all I know. I think the point is, that all the points count and it doesn't matter if they come at the end of the game, or in the middle of the game. If you want to talk to the ref, do it when the ball is dead, not when the game is going on. We give away too many points with turnovers already, we don't need any more freebee's.

 

[rhythmless]

I wasn't going to bring this up, but since someone did, I'll comment on it. This is my biggest pet peeve with Cousins. Every game I count how many times the other team gets down the floor and either scores before Cousins appears, or scores as Cousins is arriving into the picture. Last night I counted 11 times. There were a couple of other times when he did get back, but the team was already in a confused state trying to make up for his absence. But I didn't include those in my figures.

Now to be fair, because it's on television, I can only see what they show me. Of the 11 times, I can only confirm 7 times he was arguing with an official. The other 4 times I have no idea. He simply wasn't there. He could have fallen down for all I know. I think the point is, that all the points count and it doesn't matter if they come at the end of the game, or in the middle of the game. If you want to talk to the ref, do it when the ball is dead, not when the game is going on. We give away too many points with turnovers already, we don't need any more freebee's.

Our scheme's are bad enough. When he comes in late, someone's already guarding his man. I remember one time he ran right into the middle. At this point, no one knows who should rotate out. Open 3 at the top. I get really mad at this because it's so disrespectful to your teammates on the floor. It's incredibly selfish. He's hanging back arguing for his own satisfaction while his teammates have to scramble and cover for him.

 

[pshn80]

DMC and Willie share a similar defensive 'good and bad', both make outstanding stops regularly and both are 'missing' for too much of the time. Cuz because he is slow getting there and Willie because he is following the ball being passed around and, in the process, is at least a step too far from his man and is easily shot over, a good shot. With Willie it's still a learning process and he will get better at it -whether to get in position to block someone else's shot or to stay with his man and stop his shot. With Cuz it's learning also but a harder subject - managing frustration and attitude distractions. Both are already or potential greats. I'll happily keep them both.

 

[kingsboi]

I wasn't going to bring this up, but since someone did, I'll comment on it. This is my biggest pet peeve with Cousins. Every game I count how many times the other team gets down the floor and either scores before Cousins appears, or scores as Cousins is arriving into the picture. Last night I counted 11 times. There were a couple of other times when he did get back, but the team was already in a confused state trying to make up for his absence. But I didn't include those in my figures.

Now to be fair, because it's on television, I can only see what they show me. Of the 11 times, I can only confirm 7 times he was arguing with an official. The other 4 times I have no idea. He simply wasn't there. He could have fallen down for all I know. I think the point is, that all the points count and it doesn't matter if they come at the end of the game, or in the middle of the game. If you want to talk to the ref, do it when the ball is dead, not when the game is going on. We give away too many points with turnovers already, we don't need any more freebee's.

I see this on a game to game basis and I can say at least with the naked eye, that he has his games where he complains more than others. You can say in some games he gets the calls so he runs back and puts in the effort, when the whistle isn't in his favor, instead of continuing to grind it out and keep fighting, you will see the Cousins of last night and not get back on numerous trips. It is what it is at this point, he is either going to change his ways or not, either way...you take the good with the bad and hope that with time he fixes it.

 

[Bricklayer]

I wasn't going to bring this up, but since someone did, I'll comment on it. This is my biggest pet peeve with Cousins. Every game I count how many times the other team gets down the floor and either scores before Cousins appears, or scores as Cousins is arriving into the picture. Last night I counted 11 times. There were a couple of other times when he did get back, but the team was already in a confused state trying to make up for his absence. But I didn't include those in my figures.

Now to be fair, because it's on television, I can only see what they show me. Of the 11 times, I can only confirm 7 times he was arguing with an official. The other 4 times I have no idea. He simply wasn't there. He could have fallen down for all I know. I think the point is, that all the points count and it doesn't matter if they come at the end of the game, or in the middle of the game. If you want to talk to the ref, do it when the ball is dead, not when the game is going on. We give away too many points with turnovers already, we don't need any more freebee's.

I'm not going to say it was a good thing last night, because he lost his cool at one point and there was more of that than there normally is.

However, I am going to make my normal note here: Your eye is fooling you. Or more accurately, human beings are inherently prejudiced in our evaluations. Certain things jump out at us, stick in our minds, other things are set aside and forgotten.

And in the end, as usual, Cousins not getting back on this play or that STILL misleads people as to the huge defensive effect he had, even last night.

Cousins played 39 minutes, in those 39 minutes, including times he did not get back, the Spurs scored 82 pts in 39 minutes. That's 2.1pts a minute with Cuz out there. Be about 100.8pts in 48 minutes.

In the 9 minutes he sat out the Spurs scored 26 pts. That's 2.9 (2.89) pts a minute. That would be 138.7pts per 48 minutes.

100.8pts < 138.7pts no matter how much not getting back there is. In fact maybe Kosta should give it a try.

P.S. The game was 82-78 while Cousins was on the floor. It was 26-14 while he was off of it. We should consider playing him like Wilt.

 

[Glenn]

Cousins had to haul his 270 lb butt up and down the court for 39 minutes. He has the longest distance to run. Yes, there are times he doesn't get back. Maybe he can't. I don't know. A few of the greatest centers loafed up and down the court. Wilt, as brick mentioned, one year played every minutes of every game and because of OTs, averaged 48.5 minutes per game. Kareem took it easy and somehow the Lakers survived. I have my prejudice here and that is that he has a right to loaf periodically. Either that or he sits out more minutes. Take your choice. I simply do not believe a man his size can be in such a condition to run balls to the wall every minute he is on the floor.

If people think he should be able to accomplish that, so be it, we have nothing to discuss.

This thread is in existence (I am guessing) because at the end of the game Cousins made two brilliant stops. This is above what we have grown accustomed to. The overall argument is a tiring argument. When you are at the top of the mountain, people are likely to take shots at you or whatever bajaden said. I am satisfied with Boogie. He'll get better and perhaps with WCS there will develop a system whereby WCS can cover for Boogie when Boogie needs a rest.

We aren't losing because of Boogie.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'm not going to say it was a good thing last night, because he lost his cool at one point and there was more of that than there normally is.

However, I am going to make my normal note here: Your eye is fooling you. Or more accurately, human beings are inherently prejudiced in our evaluations. Certain things jump out at us, stick in our minds, other things are set aside and forgotten.

And in the end, as usual, Cousins not getting back on this play or that STILL misleads people as to the huge defensive effect he had, even last night.

Cousins played 39 minutes, in those 39 minutes, including times he did not get back, the Spurs scored 82 pts in 39 minutes. That's 2.1pts a minute with Cuz out there. Be about 100.8pts in 48 minutes.

In the 9 minutes he sat out the Spurs scored 26 pts. That's 2.9 (2.89) pts a minute. That would be 138.7pts per 48 minutes.

100.8pts < 138.7pts no matter how much not getting back there is. In fact maybe Kosta should give it a try.

P.S. The game was 82-78 while Cousins was on the floor. It was 26-14 while he was off of it. We should consider playing him like Wilt.

lol no, it's really not. And this speaks to your inherent need to defend anything and everything Cousins. As to the 2nd part, no one is arguing his defense when he gets back...people are arguing his lack of defense when they are playing 4 on 5 because he is too busy bitching at the other end of the floor. are the points given up due to him not being present factored into your defensive formula that shows the huge effect he had/has?

 

[Bricklayer]

lol no, it's really not. And this speaks to your inherent need to defend anything and everything Cousins. As to the 2nd part, no one is arguing his defense when he gets back...people are arguing his lack of defense when they are playing 4 on 5 because he is too busy bitching at the other end of the floor. are the points given up due to him not being present factored into your defensive formula that shows the huge effect he had/has?

That's exactly my point.

Again:

EVEN WITH THE TIMES HE DID NOT GET BACK

defensively we were nearly 40 pts better per 48 with Cousins on the floor than off. The times he did not get back did not keep him from having a massive defensive impact. He may have given away a few, but he prevented many more.

The Spurs shot 10-16 while he was out. That's .625.

The Spurs shot 34-69 while he was in. .493.

Once again, your eye is fooling you. Or the processing of what your eye sees. Aprat from the run backs Cousins played a strong defensive game. he was active inside. Neither Duncan nor Aldridge could do anything against him and shot a combined 2-13. David West got a couple of jumpers, that was about it.

We lost this game on the perimeter, per usual. Parker, Anderson, Mills, Green. Not one of those guys is a Cousins' guard, not even in transition.

 

[Hoovtrain]

That's exactly my point.

Again:

EVEN WITH THE TIMES HE DID NOT GET BACK

defensively we were nearly 40 pts better per 48 with Cousins on the floor than off. The times he did not get back did not keep him from having a massive defensive impact. He may have given away a few, but he prevented many more.

The Spurs shot 10-16 while he was out. That's .625.

The Spurs shot 34-69 while he was in. .493.

Once again, your eye is fooling you. Or the processing of what your eye sees. Aprat from the run backs Cousins played a strong defensive game. he was active inside. Neither Duncan nor Aldridge could do anything against him and shot a combined 2-13. David West got a couple of jumpers, that was about it.

We lost this game on the perimeter, per usual. Parker, Anderson, Mills, Green. Not one of those guys is a Cousins' guard, not even in transition.

I'm not talking about per 48 or any of the other meaningless stats or about his overall defensive impact in the game . I'm talking about the specific times I watched at the game last night, and other games, where he gets frustrated and starts bitching and moping instead of getting back and the other team scores. Or did that not happen? Is that all forgotten because he played good defense other than the times he didn't get down floor? No, my eyes are just fine.

 

[Bricklayer]

Is that all forgotten because he played good defense other than the times he didn't get down floor?

Pretty much, yes. That's the point.

Those plays happen, but the massive allergic reaction against them is losing the forest for the trees. The forest is beautiful. The occasional termite infested stump a minor annoyance, not the story of the game nor player.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Pretty much, yes. That's the point.

Those plays happen, but the massive allergic reaction against them is losing the forest for the trees. The forest is beautiful. The occasionally termite infested stump a minor annoyance, not the story of the game nor player.

yes these plays do happen..a lot...to DMC...so yes I would say it is a prevalent story of the player.

 

[kingsboi]

Pretty much, yes. That's the point.

Those plays happen, but the massive allergic reaction against them is losing the forest for the trees. The forest is beautiful. The occasionally termite infested stump a minor annoyance, not the story of the game nor player.

so tell me one thing, why is it that in some games he starts throwing tantrums like a child and then other games he is composed and just sprinting back keeping his yap shut? you're the Boogie specialist here, enlighten me.

 

[rhythmless]

That's exactly my point.

Again:

EVEN WITH THE TIMES HE DID NOT GET BACK

defensively we were nearly 40 pts better per 48 with Cousins on the floor than off. The times he did not get back did not keep him from having a massive defensive impact. He may have given away a few, but he prevented many more.

The Spurs shot 10-16 while he was out. That's .625.

The Spurs shot 34-69 while he was in. .493.

Once again, your eye is fooling you. Or the processing of what your eye sees. Aprat from the run backs Cousins played a strong defensive game. he was active inside. Neither Duncan nor Aldridge could do anything against him and shot a combined 2-13. David West got a couple of jumpers, that was about it.

We lost this game on the perimeter, per usual. Parker, Anderson, Mills, Green. Not one of those guys is a Cousins' guard, not even in transition.

No, it's not. If I scored 80% on a test, I scored 80%. Good score. Sure. But if I missed 10 questions because I didn't fill out those answers, then that's BAD. No matter what the end score is. I could have tried to answer those 10 questions. But I didn't. If someone brought up those blank answers, I don't tell them, "I scored 80%. Your eyes are fooling you. #GladYou'reAllPerfect." Both are true. I scored well. I missed some stupid questions. I missed opportunities I have no reason to miss.

These aren't a mutually exclusive thing. Just because his overall effect is good doesn't mean the individual plays aren't up for improvement or debate. I don't understand how you are this ignorant.

No one's eyes are fooling anyone. He defends well when he wants to. You're talking absolute nonsense. The stats are for a game. They are not for each play.

 

[mac]

No, it's not. If I scored 80% on a test, I scored 80%. Good score. Sure. But if I missed 10 questions because I didn't fill out those answers, then that's BAD. No matter what the end score is. I could have tried to answer those 10 questions. But I didn't. If someone brought up those blank answers, I don't tell them, "I scored 80%. Your eyes are fooling you. #GladYou'reAllPerfect." Both are true. I scored well. I missed some stupid questions. I missed opportunities I have no reason to miss.

These aren't a mutually exclusive thing. Just because his overall effect is good doesn't mean the individual plays aren't up for improvement or debate. I don't understand how you are this ignorant.

No one's eyes are fooling anyone. He defends well when he wants to. You're talking absolute nonsense. The stats are for a game. They are not for each play.

Because on this board one is not allowed to suggest that Cousins has room to and should improve in any area. Doesn't matter whether it's his attitude, or taking defensive plays off, or throwing up bad shots on offense. Because that would be tantamount to saying he is the biggest problem with the team. Instead, we should just complain about Karl and Vivek and the FO or Marco/Ben/KK 24/7 since those are bigger problems. Oh, and don't forget to add that firing Malone was a mistake and that if he was coaching this team now we'd be contending for a championship.

 

[biltalent]

so tell me one thing, why is it that in some games he starts throwing tantrums like a child and then other games he is composed and just sprinting back keeping his yap shut? you're the Boogie specialist here, enlighten me.

Just from the eye test it seems to be a combination of fatigue and frustration when he does not get calls.

 

[Glenn]

so tell me one thing, why is it that in some games he starts throwing tantrums like a child and then other games he is composed and just sprinting back keeping his yap shut? you're the Boogie specialist here, enlighten me.

There is no way of answering such a question without Boogie giving the answer himself. Any guess is merely a projective test on your own mind.

 

[VF21]

Because on this board one is not allowed to suggest that Cousins has room to and should improve in any area. Doesn't matter whether it's his attitude, or taking defensive plays off, or throwing up bad shots on offense. Because that would be tantamount to saying he is the biggest problem with the team. Instead, we should just complain about Karl and Vivek and the FO or Marco/Ben/KK 24/7 since those are bigger problems. Oh, and don't forget to add that firing Malone was a mistake and that if he was coaching this team now we'd be contending for a championship.

That is patently untrue.

People are going to argue vehemently on both sides of the equation about Cousins. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but what irritates the crap out of me is those who seem to relish in his shortcomings and yet, for some reason, are strangely silent when he puts up the numbers he's capable of doing.

Look at the number of threads about DeMarcus and the times threads that started out about something else end up being about him, his attitude, his shot selection, etc. There are some posters who present valid criticisms and encourage robust debate. There are others who seem to relish in the idea that Cousins is the biggest problem for the Kings and seem to delight in making absurd comments they know very well will ignite vigorous comments from "the other side."

DeMarcus Cousins is a once in a generation talent. And, like most other incredibly talented people, he also has his flaws. If some of his harshest critics would simply acknowledge the good, it would be much more palatable for a lot of us to accept their criticisms.

There are tons of problems with the Kings right now, but those who want to point the most fingers at DeMarcus are, IMHO, simply finding a scapegoat.

 

[VF21]

Just from the eye test it seems to be a combination of fatigue and frustration when he does not get calls.

That's kind of my take, especially when the frustration comes from OBVIOUS missed calls. The guy gets treated like a freaking punching bag and for some reason, because he's 6'11" and 270 lbs. it's supposed to be okay? I think it's about fairness and consistency from the officials in Boogie's mind.

I wish he could find a way to disconnect that particular button because if he ever does, the whole league is in trouble. Take away his frustration and you've just unleashed the genie from the bottle.

 

[Section 101]

No, it's not. If I scored 80% on a test, I scored 80%. Good score. Sure. But if I missed 10 questions because I didn't fill out those answers, then that's BAD. No matter what the end score is. I could have tried to answer those 10 questions. But I didn't. If someone brought up those blank answers, I don't tell them, "I scored 80%. Your eyes are fooling you. #GladYou'reAllPerfect." Both are true. I scored well. I missed some stupid questions. I missed opportunities I have no reason to miss.

These aren't a mutually exclusive thing. Just because his overall effect is good doesn't mean the individual plays aren't up for improvement or debate. I don't understand how you are this ignorant.

No one's eyes are fooling anyone. He defends well when he wants to. You're talking absolute nonsense. The stats are for a game. They are not for each play.

Great !! now lets put it in perspective. It isn't just Cuz that's getting the grade it's the whole class based on the average. When everyone else is getting D's and F's who are the one's bringing down the class average?

 

[rhythmless]

Great !! now lets put it in perspective. It isn't just Cuz that's getting the grade it's the whole class based on the average. When everyone else is getting D's and F's who are the one's bringing down the class average?

But...this thread is about DMC's defense. Whoever made this thread is asking for us to discuss DMC's defense, no? How does everyone getting Fs affect the fact that DMC isn't doing what he's supposed to do?

I can talk bout everyone else's defensive effort in their respective threads if you'd like to start one. But I'm going to be harder on the guy skating by with Bs than the guy working his butt off for Cs. We all suck. Is that what you want to hear? The Kings suck. The defense sucks. Karl might be coaching to get fired and cash his big ol check. But DMC has stated he's the leader. He's the guy. He's the franchise. So lead. Not by results even, but by the process.

 

[rhythmless]

That's kind of my take, especially when the frustration comes from OBVIOUS missed calls. The guy gets treated like a freaking punching bag and for some reason, because he's 6'11" and 270 lbs. it's supposed to be okay? I think it's about fairness and consistency from the officials in Boogie's mind.

I wish he could find a way to disconnect that particular button because if he ever does, the whole league is in trouble. Take away his frustration and you've just unleashed the genie from the bottle.

Refs have said that the big guys are hardest to ref. Shaq's gotten it, Dwights gotten it. DMC is getting it. It's not fair or consistent. I agree with you. But not a lot of the NBA is. Life isn't. He's looking to the refs for fair, when he should be looking to himself. He's got all the talent and power in the NBA to make everyone else cry about it not being fair. But instead of doing something productive with it, he reaches, fouls, and gives up on his teammates.

If I was playing against DMC, I'd probably hack him too. The refs aren't gonna call everything. And it's gonna get under his skin. If I mess with him, he might get his 2 free throws. But he also might whine and cry, allowing my team to go on a 10-0 run while he doesn't feel like running back. Instead, he wants to rumble around and throw up forced layups. Fine by me (this is assuming I'm NBA basketball size, which I'm not).

You're practically asking people to do this to you when it's the only way to stop you and it's such an easy glaring weakness.

At least for me, he's debated because people see what he could be if he would just "disconnect." He shows it for a half. Or a stretch of games. Then a ref misses a call and it's all over. Or he incorrectly perceives a call and decides to quit. Either way, it's frustrating because the only guy stopping DMC is DMC. And he does a good job.

 

[KingMilz]

You know if Cuz cut out all the crap I would have zero issue with him never leading a team to 30 wins, there's just to many games where he's on the brink of self destruction. Marc Jackson actually summed it up perfect on the ESPN feed where he said don't talk to the refs your to good a player for that and that being great is a challenge.

It just sucks watching him not run back because it negates all the good he does which there is plenty of.

 

[mac]

That is patently untrue.

People are going to argue vehemently on both sides of the equation about Cousins. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but what irritates the crap out of me is those who seem to relish in his shortcomings and yet, for some reason, are strangely silent when he puts up the numbers he's capable of doing.

Look at the number of threads about DeMarcus and the times threads that started out about something else end up being about him, his attitude, his shot selection, etc. There are some posters who present valid criticisms and encourage robust debate. There are others who seem to relish in the idea that Cousins is the biggest problem for the Kings and seem to delight in making absurd comments they know very well will ignite vigorous comments from "the other side."

DeMarcus Cousins is a once in a generation talent. And, like most other incredibly talented people, he also has his flaws. If some of his harshest critics would simply acknowledge the good, it would be much more palatable for a lot of us to accept their criticisms.

There are tons of problems with the Kings right now, but those who want to point the most fingers at DeMarcus are, IMHO, simply finding a scapegoat.

I guess where I disagree with your assessment of things is that I don't consider pointing out areas of improvement and failing "pointing fingers" or assigning blame. Cousins isn't at his prime, he's still going to grow and mature as a player. You're right that critics should also acknowledge the good, and there has been a lot of good. The good also definitely outweighs the bad, but that doesn't mean that the bad should be swept under the carpet and not brought to light. In fact, I believe that it's because there is so much good that one is even able to pinpoint specific weaknesses. Rondo's defensive positions, Cousins not getting back or his impatient post game. On the other hand I can't tell you much about what's wrong with Ben other than that his production seems negligible. You also won't find anyone saying Quincy Acy needs to improve in this and that because he's not meant to be a very relevant player.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Great !! now lets put it in perspective. It isn't just Cuz that's getting the grade it's the whole class based on the average. When everyone else is getting D's and F's who are the one's bringing down the class average?

Actually in these particular instances DMC is getting an incomplete for not being present .

 

[dude12]

Looks like the rain has gone away after a promising start and wet January.....maybe the weather prognosticators were off on their models......or maybe it's the fault of Cousins.

 

[ppine]

Trying to coach Cousins is a challenge, ....for anyone. He has all the talent you can ask for.
If he wants to rest, let him do it on offense like everyone else.

If he wants to argue with the officials, I would sit him for a quarter.

 

[Bricklayer]

But...this thread is about DMC's defense. Whoever made this thread is asking for us to discuss DMC's defense, no? How does everyone getting Fs affect the fact that DMC isn't doing what he's supposed to do?

I can talk bout everyone else's defensive effort in their respective threads if you'd like to start one. But I'm going to be harder on the guy skating by with Bs than the guy working his butt off for Cs. We all suck. Is that what you want to hear? The Kings suck. The defense sucks. Karl might be coaching to get fired and cash his big ol check. But DMC has stated he's the leader. He's the guy. He's the franchise. So lead. Not by results even, but by the process.

Its closer to a low A, and fans playing the father that harps incessantly on the 7 you missed rather than the 93 you got right.

You do that long enough and your kids quit talking to you by the time they are 20.

 

[Bricklayer]

It just sucks watching him not run back because it negates all the good he does which there is plenty of.

As I have PROVEN, REPEATEDLY, statistically, no it does not.

It only negates 'all the good" so to speak amongst fans who either don't know the game or can't hold their water. Little Johnny the straight A student likes to hop in mud puddles and ran straight up stairs with his shoes on when he got home without wiping his feet. And then you have to sit around and listen to your ridiculous neat freak of a mother in law ***** about how it means he's a bad kid destined for juvenile hall.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If he wants to argue with the officials, I would sit him for a quarter.

You sit Dmc and you lose the game. How does this help?
Dmc is the franchise right now. He is not some rookie or kid you tell to stand in the corner.
I get the frustration. We want a player to play hard all the time, because we admire those hard working guys in sports. Overly talented guys ,that seem to get bye on talent alone, are no rolemodels.
But for me the problem of this team is not Dmc. It's that we have signed a bunch of guys, who are not that talented as Dmc and do not play hard all the time. Our few good defenders need to cover for countless mistakes from the rest of the team.

 

[Boogie_Fever]

Looking and reading through this thread, I totally get the Cousins criticism. It's not that he is being blamed for the short comings of this team, but despite how good he is right now, we ALL know how much better he can be if he cut out all the extra curricular stuff. The impact he makes on this team is already so significant, its insane to think how much better this team can be if he cut out most of his on-court BS. We have to hold him to that standard. He is an NBA superstar and those guys are supposed to make up for most of his teams' shortcomings not add to the short comings of the team. I love Boogie, but as a fan of this team, I'm greedy and I want more from him because he is capable of so much more. There should be no debate on who the best big man in the league is IF he would just rid himself of most of his on court bad habits. He is so close to being in that conversation of one of the best players in the league.