Rookie
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I wonder how Kings fans feel now that we may have our very own Shaq or Barkley.
DeMarcus Cousins : "Bynum doesn't deserve to touch the trophy!"
- Thread starter Peter_Gibbons
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I wonder how Kings fans feel now that we may have our very own Shaq or Barkley.
I love it, it pissed me off years ago when Snaq would run his mouth about the team, we didn't have a guy to stand up to him on the court or off the court with a mic in his face.
As for DMC's tweeting it's not really a problem to me, hell all he has to do to dominate this league is stay healthy in my eyes. There's only one real legit center right now who isn't snake bitten with some bad ricketty knees and that's Brook Lopez.
His rookie year hasn't even started yet and I for one can't wait for the first matchup between these two, now we finally might have a reason to really watch a Lakers/Kings game other than the fact that it's the Lakers.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I wonder what the Kings management thinks is Cousins optimum playing weight? I'd guess around 265-270. If he gets down to that weight it will be very interesting to see what difference that makes in his game. He wasn't very good in college at weak side shot blocking. Maybe with the weight reduction he gets better in that area.
Lest we forget our ROY, we may have our own Kobe/Shaq combo in Reke/DMC. I trust the Kings are aware of needing to foster better chemistry and camaraderie than Those-Welled-Thoathed had.
DocHolliday
Starter
I don't think his playing weight will be below 275-280. That would be a 10-15 lb drop from right now.....and let's not forget....He's freaking 19......Which means he's going to put on more size as his body matures all the way. It's kind of scary and cool all at the same time.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I was going to say 270/275. One thing people tend to forget is that if you weigh, lets say 285 and you have 16% body fat, and then you turn the fat into muscle thereby reducing it down to 8 or 9%, its possible your weight will stay the same or reduce just slightly because muscle weighs more than fat. So he weighed 292 at the combine and at last report he was around 285, so I think 275 is realistic for him.
As far as weakside shotblocking. Remember that Kentucky played very little zone. They were almost strictly man to man on defense, so Cousins seldom left his man to help. Of course that will be different in the NBA. But if he loses some more weight I don't see any reason he can help on the weakside. Its interesting that Cousins isn't considered a shotblocker, and Favors is, because they both averaged almost identical stats on blocks per minute. My point being, that if Cousins can get his weight down to around 275, I think he can be a very effective shot blocker. More than anything, he needs to build up his stamina. I suspect that will take a while. I wouldn't be surprised to see him play in 5 to 7 minutes, then sit for a few minutes and then back or another 5 to 7 minutes. At least for a while until he's able to get into NBA shape.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yeah, I kinda agree and disagree at the same time. Kind of depends on position/game. Muscle weight = strength obviously. The importance of that might be outweighed by mobility in some instances. In others not. Just ask Spencer.
Fat weight...not so much. Although anybody who has ever been leaned on by a big ole hoss on the interior line in football can tell you it actually makes a real difference in straight ahead power/momentum. Not remotely enough to make it a viable substitute for mobility in a game like basketball of course. But try moving a 320lb man mountain and it will flat wear you out.
Put a big ole sumo wrestler in there and have Josh Smith try to post him up, and somebody is getting bounced around, and its not the sumo no matter how ripped Smith is. Should also I guess be noted that the world's strongest men -- the great power lifters -- normally have quite a bit of flesh on their frames.
I'd like Cousins to check in at a more muscled 275 or so. You start getting up around that size and you can go almsot anyplace you want on the floor. You go after a board, everybody else flies, you set up in the post, you're just set up in the post and ain't moving. You set a pick, and some poor little guard loses his teeth.
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Does this mean that Cousins can play interchangeably as a power forward and center as opposed to those fans thinking Cousins is exclusively a center? A fan even thinks Cousins will be the least athletic power forward in the NBA if he plays that position.
I can just imagine how good the starting frontcourt will be if Cousins turns out to be a player who can play both positions fairly well. We can start Dalembert as the center and Cousins as the power forward ( ala-Duncan/Gasol ) with either JT or Landry as first BIGs coming off the bench. The Kings might turn out to be a playoff contending team sooner than expected, especially if Cousins proves to be NBA-ready from day one and on.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We'll see, but in general I see that, as well as more annoying reports of him shootng threes and whatnot as the same problematic immaturity that damaged Spencer. While I can go for a mega-sized frontcourt if eh can do it, there is nothing in the world wrong with having a huge agile center able to bang and spin in there. There was no disadvantage whatsoever to having Hakeem manning the post for you and only occasionally spotting in a jumper. Just kids in the modern era being raised on Sportscenter and its oh so in depth boo-yahs everytime somebody chucks a three, and viewing being stationed in the post as some sort of punishment rather than what it really is -- the most important offensive position in basketball. In general the sooner we bleed the junk out of DeMarcus's game and convince him just to kick everybody's butt inside, the better. The more Geoff encourages him to be a jumpshooter, the more I hope somebody fills Geoff's car up with unwrapped Kit Kat bars on a 100 degree day.
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NME
Starter
I think the agility correlates more to mobility and that great footwork everyone talks about, not necessarily the quickness to keep up with a lot of PF's. He has the ball skills where he could play there some in certain matchups, but really this reminds me of all the talk of playing JT at SF. We finally have a real full-sized center who can be one of the truest centers in the league.
Cousins is very mobile and has great footwork. He not only rated better than athletic forwards like Favors and Ed Davis, he scored the same as some top perimeter players like Wesley Johnson and Avery Bradley. And this was at the combine where he showed up over his playing weight and yet he may not be quick enough to keep up with a lot of PFs.
What exactly is the test that Cousins have to pass to show he is quick enough to keep up with this so-called "lot of PFs"?
Are we talking about stamina here when we say Cousins would not be able to keep up with those PFs?
If Duncan and Gasol ( who we can consider full-sized centers ) were succesful playing the PF position, why would Cousins fail?
Does this mean Duncan/Gasol are so much quicker than the younger Cousins?
Teach me a little bit here because I get a little bit confused. And I really want to know if playing Dalembert and Cousins at the same time would do the Kings more harm than good. Both players for sure would want to start and if one of them can play PF, then the potential problem is good as gone.
NME
Starter
For one, he was very low on the sprint. The agility score shows he has great body control, but it doesn't mean he can close distance quickly. Obviously, his conditioning is going to improve with pro training, and he said in his twitter responses that he's working on his lateral movement. It's possible he may match up there better than many think. Still, he's our center of the future and Dalembert is most likely gone after this season, so I don't think it's productive for his development to play him more than spot minutes at PF. We want him learning how to dominate the league's other centers for the next 15 years.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It all starts with Cousins being in excellent shape. Everything in his game will suffer without that. My expectations are somewhat higher in terms of minutes. If he's as serious about getting in shape as reports indicate, he should come into training camp in pretty good shape, and if anything below the 285 lbs he is now. Hopefully, at 275 lbs. After training camp, it seems to me, he should be ready for 7 to 9 minutes a shot. If he's only playing in 5 to 7 min increments, his learning curve is going to be diminished because he just won't get much of a feel for the game. If he's in good shape, it's going to help him stay out of foul trouble, as well as many other things.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
We'll see. The 5 to 7 minutes I suggested were only for starters. If he were to play 7 minutes every quarter, that would be 28 minutes a game. Thats not bad for starters. Remember he's spliting time with Dalembert as well, and there's only 48 minutes between them. I expect him to come into camp in good shape. But nothing can duplicate the NBA in real time, and being a rookie, there's no way he has any idea what being in NBA shape means. Its all a learning process. He needs to get to 275 and then build up his stamina.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
No Bynum doesn't have the footwork that Cousins does. I will admit that I'm not a big fan of Bynum's and I think he somewhat overrated. But he makes the best of what he has. I just think the game comes more naturally to Cousins than it does to Bynum. It will be interesting to see their first matchup, and it will be a good test for Cousins. Bynum does have length and good lower body strength. The major difference between Cousins and Bynum in the post is thought process. If you watch Cousins, there's no hesitation when he gets the ball. He already knows what he wants to do when he gets it. Bynum still has the thought process going on. He's still thinking about what he wants to do. Thats been one of Thompsons problems up to now. Great players are good reactors. The just do, without the thinking part gettin in the way and slowing everything down. Thats why I was so excited about Cousins when I saw him play. He's very instinctive.
I think you are right in the sense that Cousins at the moment does not really look like he could be that quick to become a PF. But all we're throwing out are probably perceptions and not the reality yet of what he can really do and what he could become if he gets develop nicely as a player capable of playing both C and PF position. He is only 19 years old, not fully develop, and seems to like to play the PF position. So, it is too early to tell if he will exclusively be a center.
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Since there is a lot of uncertainty in the future, I would say the need would be FLEXIBILITY. There will always be a need for flexibility especially that we don't know yet for cetainty how these bigs will respond.
I have a feeling that the veteran Dalembert will be so good as the starting center for this team that he will be so valuable that we have to play him lots of minutes to win games. At the same time I can see Cousins showing too much potential as a player that he would be deserving to start sooner than expected and play more minutes. If Cousins can be develop as a PF which I think he likes for himself to be, then there would be less conflict between the two players.
I think Cousins is giving a clue by twittering he is the forward for the Kings. I have a feeling he knows it would be hard for him to knock Dalembert as the starting center and that he doesn't mind playing power forward if that is what it will take for him to start as soon as possible and have more minutes of playing time.
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Dunkster
G-League
I don't see the big difference between C and PF besides the match ups. In less there is certain plays the two positions do way different. I usually just see our bigs sitting at the bottom of the hoop.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Westphal doesn't have to play him every quarter. Maybe play him twice in the first half and once in the second half, or even once each half.
Westphal is probably going to run a helluva lot in practice, so if he comes into camp at his 275 lbs and pretty good shape, he should be ready to go by the beginning of the season. At least I hope so. Hawes really dissapointed me in this regard. Hopefully, the chip on Cousins' shoulder is big enough for him to be very diligent in his conditioning this off-season. Also, it's a big plus that Dalembert is there for competition. (Even though I wasn't a big proponent of Hawes being traded, having Dalembert in his place is a big plus now that we have Cousins). Cousins won't just be gifted any minutes. I sure want Cousins to start off on the right foot. It would be a let-down if doesn't take his conditioning seriously. In fact, that's ALL I want from him right now. All the skill stuff will take care of itself down the line. Just be serious and come into camp in shape.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Lets be clear here. Cousins is our center of the future. Not Dalembert. There's no guarantee that Dalembert will be here after next season. But regardless of whether he is or not, Cousins is the player with the youth and talent. The Kings have been drooling for a low post presence and now they have one. Why in the hell would you waste that talent out away from the basket. I'm not saying he can't play out there. He will when running the pick and roll. Westphal isn't Nellie. A good coach puts players in the best position to use their strengths. With Cousins, thats down low on the block. Your suggesting that we take an Indy car and run it in a demolition derby. Playing Cousins at PF makes as much sense. I'm not saying you can't have Dalembert and Cousins on the floor at the same time on occasion. But not on a permanent basis.
By the way. I don't give a rats behind what Cousins called himself. When he arrived at Kentucky he told Calapari he wanted to play guard. You'll notice that Calapari didn't pay much attention to what Cousins wanted to play.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm not going to quibble about how the minutes are dolled out. Who cares? He averaged 23 minutes a game in college in a season where they play a little over 40 games. I don't expect him to average much more than 26 to 28 minutes a game this year. I hope I'm wrong and he exceeds all my expectations. But I'm not counting on it. There are going to be games where personal fouls will limit his minutes. He going to go through a learning experience for at least the first third of the season.
Look, I think he's going to be very good. He'll probably exceed all my expectations, because he's a quick learner. But I'd rather no count on it and just be surprised when it happens. One of the best things about having Dalembert on the team is that Cousins will get to practice against him. And that should help his development. One of the rumors that I heard in Kentucky was that Cousins just killed Orton in practice. Which would help explain Orton's reduced minutes. Anyway, I feel confident Cousins will be in good shape to start the season. As said, he appears to have a chip on his shoulder. At least I'll be able to see first hand at summer league.
Gargamel
Starter
I remember Tony Battie before his first NBA minute saying with seriousness that he wasn't afraid of Shaq, so if anyone cringed at this one, it fails to meet those standards, at least. The quote was something like, "Shaq is a great player, but I'm Tony Battie". Bynum also bumped Shaq like a goof when he was 18 and got elbowed in return.
Mypsace Gen talk a lot by their "text-savvy" nature. Brandon Jennings had a Twitter battle last year with someone posing as Jordan Farmar. After he was told this by someone more astute than him, he sheepishly deleted his account. Ariza had one with Artest's brother for a few days before he realized that he was returning smack to someone who wasn't even an NBA player and the brother is the one who reminded him of that fact. I'm not even a player, why you gettin so worked up?
Cousins is a young'n. There will be many things to learn next year. If he has extra time to talk about anyone, it'll mean that he's ahead of schedule.
Mypsace Gen talk a lot by their "text-savvy" nature. Brandon Jennings had a Twitter battle last year with someone posing as Jordan Farmar. After he was told this by someone more astute than him, he sheepishly deleted his account. Ariza had one with Artest's brother for a few days before he realized that he was returning smack to someone who wasn't even an NBA player and the brother is the one who reminded him of that fact. I'm not even a player, why you gettin so worked up?
Cousins is a young'n. There will be many things to learn next year. If he has extra time to talk about anyone, it'll mean that he's ahead of schedule.
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Andrew Bynum is not Shaq.
I agree that Cousins will have a lot to learn, but I don't put his comments about Bynum in the same category as Battie's comments about Shaq. This was a fan of the game making a comment about Bynum's role on the championship team. I know it will lead to some serious battles in the paint as the years go on, and I'm looking forward to those, but this is not Cousins saying that he's going to shut Bynum down, or he's a better player, or anything like that. It was merely an observation.
Gargamel
Starter
Calm, calm. I didn't make those claims, I'm just saying this kind of thing is a common sight from the really young guys in the league nowadays. I don't even know if they mean half the stuff they say anymore.
SacKings7
Starter
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