DeMarcus Cousins: All NBA

Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#61
#61
Bricklayer said:
Note the per 36s. And go hard at anybody trying to deny the nose on their face. I was trying subtlety. Have decided that a good hard slap is closer to what is needed.
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Part of Cousins' problem in not getting as many minutes as the other all time greats is that he fouls a lot or at the least, a lot of fouls are called on him. There is no telling what his per 36 stats would be if he played more minutes.

BUT ........ he sure looks damn good. It can't be denied. People call him a top 10 center or a top 5 center in the present. Well, no crap, Roscoe. He's a top 5 of the last 30 years.

Let's focus on the immaturity thing. Notice what has happened recently. The switch that controls his pouty faces, kvetching, and the like that people seem to think makes him less of a dominating force than he is, seems to have been stuck in the off position. His demeanor has been "normal." It has been very difficult for even the most aggravating posters of this forum to complain about him. Also note his defense. It's improving.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#62
#62
Oh, and I am serious about dessiminating these stats about. I don't have the time to do the job properly myself, so I've been sharing Boogie stats around for a month now, and it might be bearing some fruit. In Grantland's last podcast even Lowe, after going through the normal line of Zach Lowe Boogie related B.S., even spent several minutes talking about how the numbers weren't backing up his prejudices and he was having to take another look at him. Now that could easily be more Ziller, who he kinda knows or Vivek or somebody than little ole us, but I know exactly the numbers that had given him pause, and I have been trying to punch them through for some time. In fact I'll be starting a thread on them in a bit.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#63
#63
Oh, and doing the exact thing for all of this year's All Star bigs:

So here we go, call this the Shrine of Boogie, Pt 2. Here are all the "frontcourt" wretches being accused of "All Starhood" over Boogie THIS year:


Per Game Statistics:
Cousins 32.1min 22.3pts (.496 .725) 11.6reb 2.9ast 1.5stl 1.3blk 3.5TO Age:23
BGriffin 35.8min 24.0pts (.528 .710) 9.6reb 3.8ast 1.1stl 0.6blk 2.8TO Age:24
KeLove 36.2min 25.9pts (.460 .819) 12.6reb 4.4ast 0.8stl 0.5blk 2.4TO Age: 25
Howard 34.0min 18.5pts (.590 .548) 12.3reb 1.8ast 0.9stl 1.8blk 3.3TO Age: 28
Aldridge 36.2min 23.3pts (.458 .827) 11.2reb 2.0ast 0.9stl 0.9blk 1.8TO Age: 28
Nowitzk 32.6min 21.6pts (.495 .901) 6.2reb 2.7ast 0.9stl 0.5blk 1.4TO Age: 35
AnDavis 35.2min 20.8pts (.519 .791) 10.0reb 1.6ast 1.3stl 2.8blk 1.6TO Age: 20
Hibbert 29.9min 11.1pts (.449 .770) 6.7reb 1.1ast 0.4stl 2.3blk 1.9TO Age: 27
JoNoah 34.9min 12.5pts (.480 .733) 11.1reb 5.2ast 1.2stl 1.5blk 2.4TO Age: 28
ChBosh 32.0min 16.4pts (.517 .819) 6.7reb 1.1ast 1.0stl 1.0blk 1.5TO Age: 29
PMilsap 33.4min 18.0pts (.461 .729) 8.4reb 3.1ast 1.8stl 1.1blk 2.5TO Age: 28

Per 36 Statistics:
Cousins 25.1pts (.496 .725) 13.1reb 3.2ast 1.7stl 1.4blk 3.9TO Age: 23
BGriffin 24.1pts (.528 .710) 9.6reb 3.8ast 1.1stl 0.6blk 2.8TO Age: 24
KeLove 25.8pts (.460 .819) 12.5reb 4.3ast 0.8stl 0.5blk 2.4TO Age: 25
Howard 19.6pts (.590 .548) 13.1reb 1.9ast 0.9stl 1.9blk 3.5TO Age: 28
Aldridge 23.2pts (.458 .827) 11.1reb 2.6ast 0.9stl 1.0blk 1.8TO Age: 28
Nowitzk 23.9pts (.495 .901) 6.9reb 3.0ast 1.0stl 0.6blk 1.6TO Age: 35
AnDavis 21.3pts (.519 .791) 10.3reb 1.6ast 1.4stl 2.9blk 1.7TO Age: 20
Hibbert 13.3pts (.449 .770) 8.1reb 1.4ast 0.4stl 2.7blk 2.3TO Age: 27
JoNoah 12.9pts (.480 .733) 11.5reb 5.3ast 1.3stl 1.5blk 2.5TO Age: 28
ChBosh 18.5pts (.517 .819) 7.5reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 1.1blk 1.7TO Age: 29
PMilsap 19.4pts (.461 .729) 9.0reb 3.4ast 1.9stl 1.1blk 2.7TO Age: 28

Advanced Stats:
Cousins 26.1PER .556TS% 20.5TREB% 17.5AST% 2.4STL% 3.2BLK% ORTG:107 DRTG:101 WinShare/48: .169 Age: 23
BGriffin 23.8PER .582TS% 14.9TREB% 19.0AST% 1.6STL% 1.4BLK% ORTG:114 DRTG:103 WinShare/48: .205 Age: 24
KeLove 27.2PER .592TS% 18.9TREB% 21.1AST% 1.1STL% 1.0BLK% ORTG:121 DRTG:104 WinShare/48: .253 Age: 25
Howard 21.5PER .600TS% 20.2TREB% 9.2AST% 1.3STL% 4.0BLK% ORTG:109 DRTG:101 WinShare/48: .164 Age: 28
Aldridge 21.9PER .508TS% 16.6TREB% 13.2AST% 1.2STL% 1.9BLK% ORTG:108 DRTG:104 WinShare/48: .146 Age: 28
Nowitzk 23.7PER .602TS% 11.0TREB% 14.5AST% 1.4STL% 1.3BLK% ORTG:120 DRTG:108 WinShare/48: .200 Age: 35
AnDavis 26.6PER .582TS% 16.5TREB% 8.0AST% 2.0STL% 6.7BLK% ORTG:119 DRTG:104 WinShare/48: .213 Age: 20
Hibbert 14.0PER .508TS% 12.6TREB% 6.3AST% 0.6STL% 5.8BLK% ORTG:101 DRTG:98 WinShare/48: .117 Age: 27
JoNoah 20.0PER .536TS% 18.1TREB% 25.7AST% 1.9STL% 3.3BLK% ORTG:111 DRTG:96 WinShare/48: .191 Age: 28
ChBosh 19.4PER .599TS% 13.1TREB% 5.8AST% 1.6STL% 2.6BLK% ORTG:113 DRTG:104 WinShare/48: .161 Age: 29
PMilsap 19.9PER .544TS% 14.5TREB% 16.3AST% 2.7STL% 2.5BLK% ORTG:105 DRTG:102 WinShare/48: .128 Age: 28



Which is another way of pointing out the same FACT, that there is NO group of NBA big men that DeMarcus Cousins doesn't belong with. In fact in most cases the question is whether they deserve to be mentioned with him or not.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#64
#64
Can someone explain that win-share stat as basically as possible, is it better to have a higher or lower number?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#65
#65
andremiller07 said:
Can someone explain that win-share stat as basically as possible, is it better to have a higher or lower number?
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Oh, its a noisy B.S. stat that I absolutely detest since it varies wildly according to your team. Its better to be higher. And there is no simple way to explain it. Its based on this disastrous 40yr old stat geek's book that inspired entire generations to run around trying to quantify basketball. Suffice it to say it involves marginal offense, marginal defense, players shares of these, calculations of league wide pts per possession etc. Its included here just because the original list included it as an obvious preemptive strike against metric heads. O and D ratings are just as bad, and should not be compared between teams, but again those are there to point out a fact that even Zach Lowe is having to come to grips with: Boogie's defense isn't any worse and may even be better than many of the star guys who get better press. Its about educating people at this point.


You can go down that entire advanced metric line and not get any more telling than the very first one. You know what they call people who put up 25.0 or better PERs for their career? They call them HOFs. As in EVERY SINGLE ONE. Ever. The 4 not in the Hall yet are LeBron, Shaq, CP3 and Wade. Needless to say they will be as soon as eligible. Boogie is over 26 by his fourth season. He'll have to make up for his early years, but barring injury he could be around that mark for another 10 years at least.
 
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MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#66
#66
Bricklayer said:
Oh, and I am serious about dessiminating these stats about. I don't have the time to do the job properly myself, so I've been sharing Boogie stats around for a month now, and it might be bearing some fruit. In Grantland's last podcast even Lowe, after going through the normal line of Zach Lowe Boogie related B.S., even spent several minutes talking about how the numbers weren't backing up his prejudices and he was having to take another look at him. Now that could easily be more Ziller, who he kinda knows or Vivek or somebody than little ole us, but I know exactly the numbers that had given him pause, and I have been trying to punch them through for some time. In fact I'll be starting a thread on them in a bit.
Click to expand...

I heard the podcast with Lowe, among other tidbits around the NBA 'blogosphere' that suggests the narrative on Cousins is changing ever so slightly.

Most of that podcast was about Cousins somewhat inflated defensive numbers. I think this talk actually started in February by Matt Moore in THIS post.

I don't think Cousins is as good of a defender as the advanced stats suggest, but that he is likely better than what most people think. The correct answer is probably somewhere in the middle, but the fact that he isn't a complete abomination on that end, like, say, Al Jefferson, makes his case that much better.

One more note on the podcast, Lowe mentioned how Houston sent him a briefcase full of Dwight Howard propaganda, etc. so I think it is a safe assumption that the Kings organization is sending stuff (hopefully emails, not DeMarcus Cousins travel mugs') to the media informing them on all of this stuff.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#67
#67
There are two sides of Boogie: one, that is slowly moving back, while the other team has already started a play, or standing straight on P&R, looking, what the other team will create, and the other, that is involved, aware of what is happening on the court, and this one is a good defender.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#68
#68
Bricklayer said:
As a timesaver I am going to piggy back on someone else's numbers for part of this, but heavily decorate.

So here we go, call this the Shrine of Boogie, Pt I. Age 23 Stats for all the greatest centers to enter the league in the past 30 years:
Per Game Statistics at Age 23:
Cousins 32.1min 22.3pts (.496 .725) 11.6reb 2.9ast 1.5stl 1.3blk 3.5TO 3.8Fl
Duncan 38.9min 23.2pts (.490 .761) 12.4reb 3.2ast 0.9stl 2.2blk 3.3TO 2.8Fl
PEwing 35.4min 20.0pts (.474 .739) 9.0reb 2.0ast 1.1stl 2.1blk 3.4TO 3.8Fl
Mourng 33.6min 21.5pts (.505 .762) 10.2reb 1.4ast 0.5stl 3.1blk 3.3TO 3.5Fl
SO'Neal 36.0min 26.6pts (.573 .487) 11.0reb 2.9ast 0.6stl 2.1blk 2.9TO 3.6Fl
Olajuw 36.3min 23.5pts (.526 .645) 11.4reb 2.0ast 2.0stl 3.4blk 2.9TO 4.0Fl
Daugrty 35.8min 17.8pts (.528 .718) 8.6reb 3.9ast 0.7stl 0.7blk 3.1TO 2.8Fl
Howard 35.9min 17.3pts (.568 .601) 12.5reb 1.4ast 0.9stl 2.0blk 3.0TO 3.2Fl
YaoMin 30.9min 15.5pts (.511 .810) 8.6reb 1.6ast 0.3stl 1.8blk 2.3TO 3.1Fl
Robinson did not enter the league until age 24
Mutumbo did not enter the league until age 25

Per 36 Statistics at Age 23:
Cousins 25.1pts (.496 .725) 13.1reb 3.2ast 1.7stl 1.4blk 3.9TO 4.3Fl
Duncan 21.5pts (.490 .761) 11.5reb 2.9ast 0.8stl 2.1blk 3.0TO 2.6Fl
PEwing 20.3pts (.474 .739) 9.2reb 2.1ast 1.1stl 2.1blk 3.5TO 3.9Fl
Mourng 23.0pts (.505 .762) 10.9reb 1.5ast 0.5stl 3.4blk 3.6TO 3.7Fl
SO'Neal 26.5pts (.573 .487) 11.0reb 2.9ast 0.6stl 2.1blk 2.9TO 3.6Fl
Olajuw 23.3pts (.526 .645) 11.4reb 2.0ast 2.0stl 3.4blk 2.8TO 4.0Fl
Daugrty 17.9pts (.528 .718) 8.6reb 3.9ast 0.7stl 0.7blk 3.2TO 2.8Fl
Howard 17.3pts (.568 .601) 12.6reb 1.4ast 0.9stl 2.0blk 3.0TO 3.2Fl
YaoMin 18.0pts (.511 .810) 10.0reb 1.8ast 0.4stl 2.1blk 2.7TO 3.6Fl
Robinson did not enter the league until age 24
Mutumbo did not enter the league until age 25

Advanced Stats at Age 23:
Cousins 26.1PER .556TS% 20.5TREB% 17.5AST% 2.4STL% 3.2BLK% ORTG:107 DRTG:101 WinShare/48: .169
Duncan 24.8PER .555TS% 18.1TREB% 15.5AST% 1.2STL% 4.0BLK% ORTG:109 DRTG:95 WinShare/48: .218
PEwing 17.4PER .526TS% 14.4TREB% 9.6AST% 1.5STL% 3.6BLK% ORTG:99 DRTG:101 WinShare/48: .084
Mourng 21.7PER .588TS% 16.7TREB% 6.6AST% 0.7STL% 5.7BLK% ORTG:109 DRTG:105 WinShare/48: .151
SO'Neal 26.4PER .570TS% 17.8TREB% 15.9AST% 0.9STL% 4.4BLK% ORTG:110 DRTG:103 WinShare/48: .171
Olajuw 24.2PER .560TS% 17.1TREB% 8.0AST% 2.5STL% 5.2BLK% ORTG:113 DRTG:102 WinShare/48: .186
Daugrty 16.8PER .578TS% 13.5TREB% 16.3AST% 0.9STL% 1.1BLK% ORTG:109 DRTG:105 WinShare/48: .126
Howard 21.2PER .597TS% 20.2TREB% 6.6AST% 1.3STL% 4.2BLK% ORTG:111 DRTG:100 WinShare/48: .171
YaoMin 21.3PER .579TS% 16.2TREB% 9.6AST% 0.6STL% 4.4BLK% ORTG:111 DRTG:98 WinShare/48: .190
Robinson did not enter the league until age 24
Mutumbo did not enter the league until age 25
Click to expand...

Well that's just scary, especially the per36. He really does make me feel warm and fuzzy inside. PDA better put a competitive team around him and soon because if he leaves, we could be a few more decades waiting to get his level of talent again.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#69
#69
Here, you go, figured a picture file was worth 1000 words here:




The search was all time (not restricted to modern era), At age 23, best PERs of alltime amongst all NBA bigmen (searched for Cs, and F/Cs). Nice list to be #5 on. The little asterisk BTW indicates they are in the HOF. As Shaq, Duncan, Dwight...and one day without injuries Boogie will be too.
 
Sluggah

Sluggah

All-Star
#70
#70
For the other centers that might get the nod instead of Cousins, I'd be curious to see what the head-to-head numbers are in the games against the Kings. My gut is that Cousins outplayed them in the majority of those match-ups.

Anthony Davis, for example...shouldn't he lose out simply based on the fact that Cousins dominates those games? I would hope that that comes into consideration.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#71
#71
vs Anthony Davis (4gms)
AD 18.0pts 7.3reb 2.3ast on .352FG%
DC 25.0pts 12.8reb 2.8ast on .554FG%

vs Joakim Noah (2gms)
JN 13.5pts 7.5reb 5.0ast on .476FG%
DC 25.0pts 15.0reb 3.0ast on .500FG%

vs Roy Hibbert (1gm)
RH 10.0pts 4.0reb 2.0ast on .500FG%
DC 31.0pts 13.0reb 2.0ast on .571FG%

vs Al Jefferson (2gms)
AJ 18.5pts 9.0reb 1.5ast on .471FG%
DC 28.0pts 14.0reb 4.0ast on .472FG%

vs Tim Duncan (2gms)
TD 13.5pts 11.0reb 4.0ast on .379FG%
DC 22.0pts 13.5reb 4.0ast on .439FG%

vs Dwight Howard (3gms* (not counting the one he got hurt in the first quarter))
DH 16.0pts 9.7reb 1.7ast on .640FG%
DC 18.0pts 10.6reb 2.7ast on .500FG%


Preach it people! :p
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#73
#73
The whole argument is absurd. They're giving out individual awards based on the accomplishments of the individual's team. How in the hell can anyone say that Joakim Noah is a better player than Cousins. It's Nuts. When the Kings make the playoffs Cousins had better damn we'll be voted onto the all nba 1st team.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#74
#74
lwc said:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=10763361

Since the media cannot deny the numbers now they are just flat saying "I'm done with this topic, let's move on." Thankfully Chris Broussard (one of my favorites) said he's 23 let's just wait and see.
Click to expand...

Who's that clueless clown? Utterly ridiculous. Ironic that he asks if others have actually watched DeMarcus when it's pretty obvious he hasn't. And where did this idea come from that he got Smart fired? He had nothing to do with that. Smart was a terrible coach. And Westphal fired himself by being a tactless idiot.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#79
#79
LPKingsFan said:
Ready the pitchforks! Simmons picks Al Jefferson over Boogie for all-NBA third team.
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This is the stuff that drives me a little crazy. Are we taking the team into consideration or not? what is the purpose/definition of the All-NBA team? If the argument sort of begins and ends with being on a playoff team, than, well, it's a pretty boring list of players who made the playoffs. If it's the best players in the league at that position, Simmons picked the wrong dude.

Because DeMarcus Cousins is better than Al Jefferson. Every GM in the league would take Boogie over him. Jefferson could barely find a contract he liked last summer, and now he's a top 3 center. Ok. Sure.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#80
#80
After listening to those ESPN clowns, I'm telling you, Cousins does not have even a hypothetical chance (I think he should be 3rd team, to be clear). He's not even being considered by the majority of voters. I hope he finishes top 5 but that seems a stretch. I like the irony of claiming no one is out to get you Demarcus, then proceeding to explain how he's the worst guy to watch in the NBA. Must not like basketball much, cause Cousins is as skilled a big man as this league has ever seen. And I say that without hyperbole. I truly believe that, and time will prove it.

We may get an entire EF YOU season from Demarcus next season. If he just shuts up, puts up 26/13/5, aand the team starts winning, it doesn't matter if people like him or not.

I'll never understand why people get so fired up over facial expressions and demeanor to the point they can completely disregard a player. It's just blatant bias. People don't like him. There have been times when I didn't like him. But for the most part this season, especially lately, he's been great. But people made up their minds two years ago and won't budge. Yeah, he got the immortal Smart and Westphal fired. Right, that was the only reason. Demarcus held them back from being the hall of fame coaches they are. That's why both immediately got hired to be head coaches elsewhere, right?
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#83
#83
Here's the Jefferson comparison for the year (link). I'd add those numbers to your comparisons to this year's all stars above, Brick, as it seems Al will unfortunately be a threat to Boogie's All-NBA consideration after all.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#85
#85
Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones · Apr 9
DeMarcus Cousins had 3 steals to move into 9th all time in Sacramento hisory with 392, passing Francisco Garcia. Christie (717) is No. 1

Bryan May ‏@BMayNews10 · Apr 9
DeMarcus Cousins @boogiecousins sets an #NBAKings Sacramento franchise record with his 51st double-double in a season, passing Chris Webber

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones · Apr 9
DeMarcus Cousins just passed Brad Miller for 9th in scoring all-time in Sacramento history.


He'll be #1 in virtually everything by the time his contract is up.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#86
#86
Bricklayer said:
I have utter contempt for twitter and its illiterate denizens. :p

However I occasionally make an exception when I think there is a crusade worth fighting. Then I depart again to go take a shower. :p
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meh, you could just as easily say "I have utter contempt for the internet and its illiterate denizens." there are plenty of intelligent, interesting, and thoughtful individuals on twitter, many of whom are able to more effectively wield 140 characters than some can manage with entire paragraphs (i teach college english, believe me, i know). creative minds will flourish no matter the format, but, just as with any place that people gather on this earth, they are clearly outnumbered by the mindless rabble. twitter is really no more a haven for the obtuse than facebook or myspace before it, or even online forums such as this one...
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#87
#87
I've been putting up a series of twitter friendly Boogie stats on my brick twitter account. In fact it has little other use. :p

If anybody wants to come on by and retweet/spread them about I'm @brickl2011

and know, this isn't me begging for twitter followers :p

after the grades are up I'll be putting up a lot more
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#88
#88
Bricklayer said:
I've been putting up a series of twitter friendly Boogie stats on my brick twitter account. In fact it has little other use. :p

If anybody wants to come on by and retweet/spread them about I'm @brickl2011

and know, this isn't me begging for twitter followers :p

after the grades are up I'll be putting up a lot more
Click to expand...
I think the more the merrier. Even I can re-tweet.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#89
#89
Bricklayer said:
I've been putting up a series of twitter friendly Boogie stats on my brick twitter account. In fact it has little other use. :p

If anybody wants to come on by and retweet/spread them about I'm @brickl2011

and know, this isn't me begging for twitter followers :p

after the grades are up I'll be putting up a lot more
Click to expand...
I just became your first Twitter follower. :)

Let's see if we can get the #rescindtheT to trend.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#90
#90
Demarcus Wiggins ‏@ItsHarvin · 1h
Demarcus Cousins in his last 5 games has averaged 29.8 PPG, 12.6 RPG and 3 assists per game. Hopefully tonight wasn't his last game
 
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