DeMar DeRozan --- #4 Pick?

We dont need a team of wings. We need a point guard.

Kmart, Cisco, Greene, Nocioni, Maybe Mccants.....DeRozan.....Evans....Curry........Henderson........:mad::mad::mad:

We need a QB dam**!
 
Say no to DeRozan, he has bust written all over him.

I wouldn't mind reaching a bit and taking Holliday


Not that I'm a big fan of DeRozan, but what has Holiday shown that DeRozan hasn't? Holiday has shown very little. I really don't get the fascination with him. He should stay another year in college. He's not ready yet.
 
Say no to DeRozan, he has bust written all over him.

I wouldn't mind reaching a bit and taking Holliday
What???? So you are okay with taking Holiday, but not DeRozan??? Holiday hasn't proved ANYTHING, I mean ZERO. and you are okay with taking Holiday? I don't mind picking up Holiday with 23th pick, but not 4th. DeRozan improved a lot since he joined USC especially at the end of the year. When you watch his highlights, his moves are very smooth IMO. He has more potential than Holiday IMO.
 
Honestly I haven't seen too much of either, I've just read up on DeRozan and he sounds just like Gerald Green. Everyone thought the Celtics had a steal at 18 or 16 or whatever it was when Green fell to them. Now he's lucky to even be in the league.

Holliday never had the best year, but he played out of position all year. I'm expecting both him and Teague (who I'd also probably reach for) to return to college for 1 more year. It'd benefit Holliday more than anyone else, especially since Collison is now gone and he can return to PG.
 
^ A lot of people are saying that Harden's game is a lot similar to Paul Pierce's. I do see the similarities. Both are not very athletic but they have very skilled and textbook moves that just works. Harden is strong enough. Only thing is he is a bit undersized listed at 6'4" or 6'5". He looks taller than 6'4" for sure. We'll see in the combine.

But back on topic, I agree that what we see of a player in college does not tell the whole story. If, and only if DeRozan works hard, then he can be an all star type player. He has to tools, but he needs to put in the work. Thats the difference for a lot of NBA players I guess. Some don't work hard. It will be very interesting to see how DeRozan does in the work outs.

Pierce was much quicker than Harden. A lot of Harden's game is brute strength. He definitely will not have a problem adapting to the physicality of the NBA. To me, he has a lot of Mitch Richmond in him - a very strong player. What interested me with Harden was the fact that the college officials let him get away with a lot of physical play, not what I expected. I attribute that a lot to the craftiness of Harden.
 
^ A lot of people are saying that Harden's game is a lot similar to Paul Pierce's. I do see the similarities. Both are not very athletic but they have very skilled and textbook moves that just works. Harden is strong enough. Only thing is he is a bit undersized listed at 6'4" or 6'5". He looks taller than 6'4" for sure. We'll see in the combine.

But back on topic, I agree that what we see of a player in college does not tell the whole story. If, and only if DeRozan works hard, then he can be an all star type player. He has to tools, but he needs to put in the work. Thats the difference for a lot of NBA players I guess. Some don't work hard. It will be very interesting to see how DeRozan does in the work outs.

I think the psychological aspect is key with ALL these players. To me, the talent is so even among several guys that I'd bet that it's not the actual physical gifts that separate one from the group for Kings management, but the pyschological competitiveness factor and how that player will fit in with this team. They are looking for the most obsessive-compulsive winaholic workaholic they can possibly find.
 
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The problem with DeRozan though is that he's lacking the guard skills that are very hard to just learn, even with work hard. For most players you either have them or you don't. DeRozan reminds me of Joey Graham.
 
I think the psychological aspect is key with ALL these players. To me, the talent is so even among several guys that I'd bet that it's not the actual physical gifts that separate one from the group for Kings management, but the pyschological competitiveness factor and how that player will fit in with this team. They are looking for the most obsessive-compulsive winaholic workaholic they can possibly find.

That's a key attribute they should be looking for. There's a huge difference between someone who's happy to be a 9th or 10th man, and somebody who will work hard and become the best that he can possibly become
 
Thing about DeRozan is that he's more unpolished offensively than Gerald Green was in high school--Green had some ballhandling skills and a sweet shooting touch which was all virtually negated by his bad shot selection and horrific decision making. DeRozan has virtually no ballhandling skills and nothing extending beyond mid-range (didn't even shoot the college three well). I do think DeRozan has less mental issues than Green, but still I question his work ethic, so honestly I'm not even sure why he is a top 10 pick--yes some teams are in dire need of an athletic swingman, but he's just all potential right now and in particular has serious work to do offensively and with his ball skills. Not sure if he can ever develop it, especially if he's on a team giving him a short leash. I honestly think, in terms of prospects, he's worse than Green was in high school, both potential-wise and skill-wise.
 
At #4 I would stay away from both Derozen and Holiday. Derozen is just mostly an athlete at this time...kind of like Gerald Wallace when he came out, except Derozen doesn't have the all-world athleticism like Wallace. Holliday just seemed to be mostly hype. I kept looking for positives in his game whenever I see him play but so far all I see is an average college player with average game. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up out of the league in a few years.
 
With all the talk of him being a poor shooter, his FG% is 52%. His 2pt FG% is 56% while his 3pt is 17%.

The key point to remember here is that the 3pt shot in college is much shorter than the NBA. You have to be able to knock down a 20ft jump shot as a guard in the NBA, and this is telling me that he can't do that right now.
 
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Yes, statistically you make a good point. Any decent NBA wing player has to be able to knock down that shot. However, DeRozan got dramatically better with his shooting the second half of the season. Actually, his whole game got drastically better throughout the season (which couldn't be said for Jrue Holiday). That indicates to me that he does have the right work-ethic to hopefully meet his potential. We all saw Gerald Green plunge on draft day and it wasn't because of his raw talent. I'm guessing that the teams which got a chance to see him up close didn't like his attitude. DeRozan might be comparable to Green in terms of physical potential, but that doesn't mean he's as mentally unprepared as Green was (is?).

I like the Gerald Wallace comparison because both were athletic freaks with limited shooting ability who played just one year in college and entered the draft too early. Wallace eventually got there, though it wasn't for the team that drafted him (unfortunately). If Gerald Green is worst-case scenario than I think Gerald Wallace is best-case. He has similar types of tools (strong, mobile, ridiculous ups, weak-side shotblocking, active on the offensive glass). But I think he'll be closer to Wallace than Green eventually. He looked unselfish and hard-working in his one season at USC.

EDIT -- Also, I don't really see the Vince Carter/Kobe/TMac/Paul Pierce comparisons that have been thrown out there. Yes he has similar athletic potential, but I've never seen anything to indicate he'll ever have the scoring mentality of those guys. I didn't see him in high school, but he looked tentative on offense most of the year at SC and when he did break out at the end, he was an opportunistic scorer not a dominant one. And with his skill-set his future is probably at SF not SG.
 
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At #4 I would stay away from both Derozen and Holiday. Derozen is just mostly an athlete at this time...kind of like Gerald Wallace when he came out, except Derozen doesn't have the all-world athleticism like Wallace. Holliday just seemed to be mostly hype. I kept looking for positives in his game whenever I see him play but so far all I see is an average college player with average game. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up out of the league in a few years.

Not to mention that Wallace always went to the rim with reckless abandon and gave it 110% all the time defensively with his stealing and shotblocking.
 
Just for fun...

Wallace's stats in his one year at Alabama:

.....................MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
00-01 Alabama 22.9 43.8 17.5 56.8 6.0 1.5 2.4 1.0 1.2 9.8

DeRozan's stats in his one year at USC:

................MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
08-09 USC 33.4 52.3 16.7 64.6 5.7 1.5 2.1 0.4 0.9 13.9

The overall numbers are similar but it looks like DeRozan takes a hit on the per40min numbers. Wallace was already a better rebounder and shot-blocker, DeRozan looks like a slightly better shooter.
 
^Those numbers lack context though. Wallace was playing out of position at PF the entire year at Alabama, which is one reason why he came out after his frosh year. I don't think they're really very comparable players. Wallace is/was bigger and more athletic, but lacked even the polish that DeRozan shows at that stage in his career. DeRozan isn't the freakish athlete, but shows a bit of a pull-up game. Just don't think there's much comparison between the two.
 
^Those numbers lack context though. Wallace was playing out of position at PF the entire year at Alabama, which is one reason why he came out after his frosh year. I don't think they're really very comparable players. Wallace is/was bigger and more athletic, but lacked even the polish that DeRozan shows at that stage in his career. DeRozan isn't the freakish athlete, but shows a bit of a pull-up game. Just don't think there's much comparison between the two.

Umm, ESPN has both listed at 6'7" and 220lbs. Official measurements aren't out yet for this years' class, but the page where I found Wallace's college stats has him listed at 6'7" and 210 before the draft. I think they're basically the same height. DeRozan probably does weigh more than Gerald did out of college because he clearly has a much more developed upper body than Gerald did so I really disagree that Gerald was bigger. Maybe now he is. Slightly. DeRozan also played a lot of his minutes at PF with Taj Gibson playing C and three guards in the backcourt. And you don't think DeMar DeRozan is a freakish athlete? Really?
 
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Really looking at DeRozan's stats, much of his damage was done at the end of the season during USC stretch run in March(when it mattered most).
 
Umm, ESPN has both listed at 6'7" and 220lbs. Official measurements aren't out yet for this years' class, but the page where I found Wallace's college stats has him listed at 6'7" and 210 before the draft. I think they're basically the same height. DeRozan probably does weigh more than Gerald did out of college because he clearly has a much more developed upper body than Gerald did so I really disagree that Gerald was bigger. Maybe now he is. Slightly. DeRozan also played a lot of his minutes at PF with Taj Gibson playing C and three guards in the backcourt. And you don't think DeMar DeRozan is a freakish athlete? Really?

I guess let's just see what the measurements are, but DeRozan looks more 6'5"-6'6" just eyeballing it. But we'll see.

But the difference athletically is that DeRozan is explosive when he's jumping off of two feet, not so much when he's jumping off of one (you can even see the difference in that video you linked to), whereas Wallace is basically just explosive no matter what.

DeRozan is a really good athlete, I just don't think he's at Wallace's level, and more importantly, he never really imposed his athleticism on the game in the way that Wallace does.

I'm not really all that down on DeRozan, I think he has potential. But he's got a long way to go.
 
I guess let's just see what the measurements are, but DeRozan looks more 6'5"-6'6" just eyeballing it. But we'll see.

But the difference athletically is that DeRozan is explosive when he's jumping off of two feet, not so much when he's jumping off of one (you can even see the difference in that video you linked to), whereas Wallace is basically just explosive no matter what.

DeRozan is a really good athlete, I just don't think he's at Wallace's level, and more importantly, he never really imposed his athleticism on the game in the way that Wallace does.

I'm not really all that down on DeRozan, I think he has potential. But he's got a long way to go.

I do agree with you that his athleticism isn't as evident in the games I've seen as Gerald Wallace's was/is. But they're very similar in terms of their size and skill-set and college careers. Wallace looks a little more explosive getting off his feet (it could also be that he's a lot less cautious about going airborne in traffic, for better or worse), which is what makes him such an elite rebounder and shotblocker for a wing player. I don't think DeRozan has 2 bpg and 2 spg in him. But a poor man's Gerald Wallace on defense coupled with more offensive potential (better looking shot, developing some range already) sounds like a pretty good player to me. I was impressed with his attitude last year. He didn't come in expecting to be the man, but he carried the team at the end of the year in all the games that mattered.

It's never fair to compare prospects to current players, but I can't think of a better comparison for DeRozan. I think he should be in the mix at #4 if nobody else looks overwhelmingly better, but I wouldn't put him at the top of my list right now.
 
Regarding HEIGHT

Keep in mind that almost all players are listed taller on their profile than their real height measured at the combine. The combine height of Melo was 6'6" & a qtr if I remember correctly. 6'7" guys in the NBA are really 6'5" at the combine. Most of them are listed taller even than their with shoes height at the combine.


And DeRozan is a freakish athlete. Anyone with a 40+ vertical is a freak of nature.
 
Regarding HEIGHT

Keep in mind that almost all players are listed taller on their profile than their real height measured at the combine. The combine height of Melo was 6'6" & a qtr if I remember correctly. 6'7" guys in the NBA are really 6'5" at the combine. Most of them are listed taller even than their with shoes height at the combine.


And DeRozan is a freakish athlete. Anyone with a 40+ vertical is a freak of nature.

There's more to athleticism than how your max vertical measures out.
 
There's more to athleticism than how your max vertical measures out.

I agree. You can have great leaping ability and have just average or below average lateral movement. You can be a great athlete and have poor hand to eye coordination. You can be quick but not fast. Think quarter horse compared to racehorse. All these things can be probed and measured. The one thing you can't accurately measure is whats between the ears. DeRozan could become the next Wallace, or, he could become the next Green.

The main question that should be asked is: Is he the best player available at number 4? He's the type of player thats usually picked much lower in the first round, because of the risk. If the comparison to Wallace is accurate, and he were coming out of Alabama this year, and not knowing what you know now, would you take him a #4?

I seriously doubt it...
 
There's just no comparison to Wallace. No one who has seen DeRozan play would ever make that comparison. Even if DeRozan has raw athletic ability, he very rarely uses it in a game. He may be able to jump off of two feet, but his offense is limited to midrange jumpers and his defense is nothing to write home about. They're completely different types of players.
 
There's just no comparison to Wallace. No one who has seen DeRozan play would ever make that comparison. Even if DeRozan has raw athletic ability, he very rarely uses it in a game. He may be able to jump off of two feet, but his offense is limited to midrange jumpers and his defense is nothing to write home about. They're completely different types of players.

I've seen him play plenty and that's why I made the comparison. It makes me wonder who you're watching because while I did agree with you before that his athleticism isn't as apparent in the game as Wallace's is, it's really not that far off. In their two NCAA tournament games most of his points were on mid-range jumpers, but in the Pac-10 tournament he scored a lot more points at the basket. Against Cal he had 17 points 11 rebounds and 3 blocks and he was 1 for 2 on 3 pointers. Against UCLA he had 21 points 13 rebounds and 2 steals and was 1 for 1 on three pointers. In those two games he had several highlight reel dunks and putback baskets and looked like Gerald Wallace reincarnate. Against Arizona State he only had 3 rebounds but he had 25 points shooting 10 for 16 including 1 for 3 on three pointers. In the two NCAA tournament games he had 18 points and 9 rebounds and then 18 and 5. So over the last 5 games of the year, all tournament games, he averaged 19.8 points and 8.2 rebounds. He's not as active on defense, and he certainly doesn't have the shotblocking instincts that Wallace does, but they look like similar players offensively because they have the same limitations. DeRozan doesn't have a handle and he's not much of an outside shooter so he has to rely on his athleticism to score. If all you think of when you think of Gerald Wallace is his ridiculous blocked shots, then certainly there's no comparison. I'm talking about the big picture. He looks like Gerald Wallace with less shot-blocking but a better jumpshot. And less out of control. Who would you compare him to?
 
I've seen him play plenty and that's why I made the comparison. It makes me wonder who you're watching because while I did agree with you before that his athleticism isn't as apparent in the game as Wallace's is, it's really not that far off. In their two NCAA tournament games most of his points were on mid-range jumpers, but in the Pac-10 tournament he scored a lot more points at the basket. Against Cal he had 17 points 11 rebounds and 3 blocks and he was 1 for 2 on 3 pointers. Against UCLA he had 21 points 13 rebounds and 2 steals and was 1 for 1 on three pointers. In those two games he had several highlight reel dunks and putback baskets and looked like Gerald Wallace reincarnate. Against Arizona State he only had 3 rebounds but he had 25 points shooting 10 for 16 including 1 for 3 on three pointers. In the two NCAA tournament games he had 18 points and 9 rebounds and then 18 and 5. So over the last 5 games of the year, all tournament games, he averaged 19.8 points and 8.2 rebounds. He's not as active on defense, and he certainly doesn't have the shotblocking instincts that Wallace does, but they look like similar players offensively because they have the same limitations. DeRozan doesn't have a handle and he's not much of an outside shooter so he has to rely on his athleticism to score. If all you think of when you think of Gerald Wallace is his ridiculous blocked shots, then certainly there's no comparison. I'm talking about the big picture. He looks like Gerald Wallace with less shot-blocking but a better jumpshot. And less out of control. Who would you compare him to?

That's true, at the end of the season he did rebound better and start using his athletically ability more. I still don't think the comparison is Wallace though. Those end of season rebounds notwithstanding, DeRozan just doesn't impose his athleticism on the game much, whereas that's basically Wallace's entire game.

I don't actually know that there are very good comparison players to DeRozan. He's kind of unique. Most of the players who have his midrange game are also good ballhandlers and passers, but that's not really his game. Most of other players who rely on athleticism are more scrappy and high flying than he is. That's also not his game. He

I'm not down on him, I think he has a lot of potential. I just don't know that Gerald Wallace is quite the right model to be thinking about because DeRozan is much more offensive minded.
 
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