Dealing JT

[Sac.1989]

Gaining momentum in the press;

http://dimemag.com/2010/09/it-appears-jason-thompson-could-be-dealt-before-the-trade-deadline/
Jason Thompson Could Be Dealt Before The Trade Deadline


From the All-Star break through the offseason, the Sacramento Kings were out to get more depth in their frontline to complement Rookie of the Year Tyreke Evans. At the deadline, Carl Landry was brought in for his scoring, and this summer they obtained a veteran shot blocker in Samuel Dalembert. Also, two of the best bigs from this year’s Draft were picked up in DeMarcus Cousins and Hassan Whiteside. So where does this leave Jason Thompson?


Looked at as an afterthought after coming out of Rider University, Thompson has proven he’s a solid building block for the future. He is one of the few big men in the League with quick feet, and due to his late growth spurt, he has the handle of a guard. His career averages of 11.8 points and 7.9 rebounds per game are more than solid for someone who is just entering their third NBA season. But even with his production, Thompson has fallen in the depth chart in Sactown.
This season, Landry is expected to be the main contributor in the post, and the drafting of Cousins doesn’t help Thompson’s plans for minutes at the four either. Throw in Whiteside and Dalembert, that makes the center spot another crowded position on the Kings’ roster. So where does Thompson fit in? The Kings are high on their rookies in their quest to rebuild, so are there enough minutes to go around? His offense could earn him minutes over Dalembert, however he’s a veteran with better defensive skills. That battle should be interesting.


One scenario, which Fran Blinebury of NBA.com predicts, is that Thompson will be traded before the deadline. With a lot to offer, he could be better utilized in a different situation. He shouldn’t be hard to shop around. He’s young and talented with solid production. As result the Kings probably view him more as an asset in this manner.
So while the future looks real uncertain for the New Jersey native, his game is not the issue. There are just too many bodies on the frontline in Sacramento. Will being an afterthought in the Kings’ rotation lead to Thompson landing in a situation where he can breakout? That is yet to be seen.

 

[Spike]

This is crazy talk. I don't think Landry is the long term solution; JT might be. Why not trade JT for Shorty McPointGuard and kill two birds with one stone? You can never have too many bigs. Looking at the depth chart, he'd be the 2nd PF in. Cousins wasn't drafted to be a PF, and Dalembert makes no sense there, either.

 

[Entity]

sounds like somebody was bored and just created an article out of thin air.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

How is he going to "break out" on another team? He has had ample opportunity to do that here, shown flashes even. If anything his break out may come as a result of some lowered expectations and reduced minutes thanks to all the new big bodies in town.

 

[kennadog]

Holy crap, I can't wait for the season to start, so we can talk/read about reality.

 

[Bricklayer]

SOMEBODY is going to lose out on our frontline. Its unfortunate, but there is just no way we can keep 5 talented guys there all happy. I still haven't figured out just who its going to be yet with everybody bringing a distinct portfolio. If we could just merge 2 or 3 of them together we'd have a heckuva player. A Dalembert/Cousins/Carl Thompside trio would be almost perfect. As itr is I am really not terribly worried about JT breaking out in a huge way, whether for us or anybody else. But he's a big handy player (and the big should not be undersold -- big is good, and makes him a strong backup 4/5 candidate ala a Varejao type), and maybe the most all around meat and potatoes solid of the 5 guys up front. And the x-factor with him is just his seeming position as a core member of our young guys -- friends with all the young guys, seems to be a bit of a leader amongst them, and in general his loss might be felt in more ways than just on the court.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I think Landry will be the one who will lose out in all this--I've grown to appreciate JT's game in that Varejao-type way, and my bad for all that vitriol I spewed on him during draft day. It's unfortunate, because I'm extremely high on Whiteside and Cousins and believe they will be good players for us in the future, and I've always believed Dalembert to be a heavily underrated player with just a naturally great defensive impact. Dalembert's got the expiring, but we'll keep him for at least this whole season while Whiteside/Cousins learns the reins, and while the consensus is he'll depart after this year I do think we should at least resign him as backup. JT's production as of now exceeds what he's making, and he's got a cap-friendly contract if we extend the qualifying/pick up the team option in future years, so it's not worth letting him go. So that leaves Landry...he's splitting minutes with Thompson, actually had a poor impact during his half-year with us, and based on that he did nothing to disprove the idea that undersized offensive-minded bigs tend to peak early. It also appears to me that he's the weakest link in terms of current impact+potential on this roster, and while he's worth the money he's making his $3mil expiring can be dangled for say...a first round pick? I do believe his value is in line with that. Or a straight one-on-one swap for Afflalo, gives us a defender/three point shooter hybrid that can pair well with Reke, although not sure if Denver needs any more bigs or needs to lose another SG in the Melo turmoil.

 

[SacKings7]

SOMEBODY is going to lose out on our frontline. Its unfortunate, but there is just no way we can keep 5 talented guys there all happy. I still haven't figured out just who its going to be yet with everybody bringing a distinct portfolio. If we could just merge 2 or 3 of them together we'd have a heckuva player. A Dalembert/Cousins/Carl Thompside trio would be almost perfect. As itr is I am really not terribly worried about JT breaking out in a huge way, whether for us or anybody else. But he's a big handy player (and the big should not be undersold -- big is good, and makes him a strong backup 4/5 candidate ala a Varejao type), and maybe the most all around meat and potatoes solid of the 5 guys up front. And the x-factor with him is just his seeming position as a core member of our young guys -- friends with all the young guys, seems to be a bit of a leader amongst them, and in general his loss might be felt in more ways than just on the court.

I'm not convinced Whiteside can contribute much this year, so I really don't see why anybody has to lose out THIS season. To me, it doesn't really make sense for us to trade JT at the deadline when both Landry AND Dalembert will be UFA. Unless of course we think Landry is the answer at the 4 and we trade JT to show our confidence in him. I think some front court decisions will have to be made around the deadline, but I don't think they involve JT

 

[LPKingsFan]

Think it all depends on how the youngins progress, how they play together, and what kind of offers Dalembert and Landry look to get in free agency next summer. Sure, someone is going to be buried this year, but it's foolish to deal JT away unless we're fairly certain we're going to keep Landry and Dalembert. I think if Cousins establishes himself as our go-to inside scorer, then that makes Carl expendable. And if Hassan shows he can contribute defense and shotblocking right away, then it isn't as important to keep Dalembert. Finally, can Cousins and Dalembert play major minutes on the court together? If so, that's a major consideration as well for who to keep around. But until we know what we have, we shouldn't be shipping anyone out.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think Landry will be the one who will lose out in all this--I've grown to appreciate JT's game in that Varejao-type way, and my bad for all that vitriol I spewed on him during draft day. It's unfortunate, because I'm extremely high on Whiteside and Cousins and believe they will be good players for us in the future, and I've always believed Dalembert to be a heavily underrated player with just a naturally great defensive impact. Dalembert's got the expiring, but we'll keep him for at least this whole season while Whiteside/Cousins learns the reins, and while the consensus is he'll depart after this year I do think we should at least resign him as backup. JT's production as of now exceeds what he's making, and he's got a cap-friendly contract if we extend the qualifying/pick up the team option in future years, so it's not worth letting him go. So that leaves Landry...he's splitting minutes with Thompson, actually had a poor impact during his half-year with us, and based on that he did nothing to disprove the idea that undersized offensive-minded bigs tend to peak early. It also appears to me that he's the weakest link in terms of current impact+potential on this roster, and while he's worth the money he's making his $3mil expiring can be dangled for say...a first round pick? I do believe his value is in line with that. Or a straight one-on-one swap for Afflalo, gives us a defender/three point shooter hybrid that can pair well with Reke, although not sure if Denver needs any more bigs or needs to lose another SG in the Melo turmoil.

I'm pretty much with you, although $$$ will be a factor as well. For me, if the choice is between signing either Landry or Dalembert at, say, Paul Millsap numbers -- 4 years/$32 million or so -- you take Dalembert. But if it's Carl at that price but a Haywood-esque 6 years/$55 million for Dalembert? Then I reconsider.

The whole problem of waiting for free agency is, of course, you don't get anything back unless you manage a sign and trade. So it could be wise to trade someone midseason if the starts so align. I think Landry could be both the most valuable and expendable, and perhaps trading for a good SG fit might be our best bet. Think we could do better than Afflalo (maybe Harden for Landry?) but if you want to get really ambitious, include one of our SFs, and see if we could get real stud in a package deal?

 

[kingsboi]

At the moment, there is absolutely no need to deal JT. I am fine with our rotation of Landry, Dalembert, Cousins & Hassan. I don't think Hassan will get much playing time to begin with, and Demarcus will possibly start off with 20 min. off the bench and work his way up. JT has a nice jump shot and is a solid rebounder, he can only get better. It's also a plus that you can see he is improving on his man to man defense, I liked what I saw from him last year for the most part. As for Carl, trading him for a stud SG would be an awesome idea, or if we can re-sign him for a reasonable amount that might be an option as well & then shift him to the bench to play 6th man. Overall, I love JT's progress by the year, he is getting better & better and we need players like him to be successful down the road.

 

[gunks]

If we trade JT and end up throwing Landry a big contract (yes, I'm jumping off the assumption cliff) I'm gonna be pissed. JT is the PERFECT bench big. Tall, can play both positions, great rebounder, energy guy. Landry is the Kevin Martin of PFs. Dude can score great, but is too short to play D (he's listed at 6'9, but I swear he looks shorter than Reke), and stinks at rebounding. He's also a bit of a black hole whereas JT gives us pretty decent passing.

Hopefully the article is bogus. When JT is consistant we're a better team. I dont feel that Landry really makes us better. Our record was just as abysmal post Martin trade as before it.

 

[funkykingston]

I see it as very unlikely that both Dalembert and Landry are back with the team next season. Whether traded at the deadline (and I see that more as a possibility for Landry) or not retained in free agency, this team is likely losing one of them. If it's Dalembert, then Cousins is the starting center and JT becomes more valuable as a backup C as well as PF. If it's Landry that leaves then JT (barring big development from Whiteside a trade or a stud draft pick) as the de facto starter at the 4.

Yes, the Kings have a crowded frontcourt rotation. No, that's not a bad thing. Westphal has plenty of options and this season will provide a clear picture of the best way to move forward in the offseason. But at this moment the idea of dealing Thompson at the deadline makes no sense to me.

 

[bajaden]

First off, having too many big men that are also talented, is a good thing, and not something one should rush out to change. I realize there's not much going on in the basketball world right now, other than USA against the world. And that the article is pure speculation born from boredom, but there are seeds of truth in it. There are only so many minutes to be had. Personally I think JT will manage to get his share. I'm sure that most on this fourm know I like JT, and I have defended him on more than one occasion.

This has nothing to do with the sweat glistening off his well muscled body. It has to do with his potential as a player. Having said that, potential will only take you so far. History tells us that this should be JT's breakout year. Its his third year in the league, and its time for him to show us that he going to be one of the upper tier PF's in the league, or at worse, become a Kurt Thomas type of player, which every team needs. If either of those, he becomes valuable, and probably renders Landry expendable at the end of the year.

I'm also one of those that believes we won't retain both Landry and Dalembert. And if so, and if both live up to whats expected of them, then I lean toward Dalembert. On a team that should have enough offensive weapons going forward, I think it would be foolhardy to rid yourself of one of the better defenders in the league at the center position. Of course the other side of the coin is Whiteside. If he develops faster than orginally thought, then he could render Dalembert as unnecessary. I watched Whiteside play quite a bit, and personally think he's at least two years away from being any kind of an impact player. I hope he proves me wrong, because I think he has the chance to be one of the better defender/shotblockers in the league. Once again, potential and not reality. At least not yet.

But back to Thompson. Strangely enough, he's one of the older players on a very young team. He's starting to show some leadership and maturity. If his game can grow to the same extent, then I doubt the Kings would be willing to part with him. But if they are, I'm sure they could get good value in return. Personally, I would like to see JT emerge as the winner in the perceived Landry/Thompson competition. He's younger, bigger and more versitle. This is going to be an interesting year. Especially the battle of the bigs. Bye Bye Spence!

 

[LPKingsFan]

I'm also one of those that believes we won't retain both Landry and Dalembert. And if so, and if both live up to whats expected of them, then I lean toward Dalembert. On a team that should have enough offensive weapons going forward, I think it would be foolhardy to rid yourself of one of the better defenders in the league at the center position. Of course the other side of the coin is Whiteside. If he develops faster than orginally thought, then he could render Dalembert as unnecessary. I watched Whiteside play quite a bit, and personally think he's at least two years away from being any kind of an impact player. I hope he proves me wrong, because I think he has the chance to be one of the better defender/shotblockers in the league. Once again, potential and not reality. At least not yet.

Amen. I think it's much more likely that Cousins renders Landry's offense expendable before Whiteside does the same for Dalembert's defense. Either way, though, I see our big man rotation this year as Landry/Dalembert/Cousins/JT and, in a couple years from now, Cousins/JT/Whiteside/?. Cousins and JT are the constants, and the question is, who do we retain as the placeholder in between. The best course of action might be to trade Carl while we can get something good for him, and see if we can keep Sammy D at something like 3 years/$25-30 million until Whiteside is ready. Or, if Cousins is ready right away for 30+ minutes/game and playing him and Dalembert together doesn't work, it might not be. Either way, trading JT doesn't make the most sense until we know who we're keeping next summer.

 

[gunks]

Season averages:

JT: 12.5/8.5/1.7 (47.2% from the field, 31mpg)
Landry: 18/6.5/.8 (52% from the field, 37 mpg)

Best month of each:

JT (December): 16.6/8.9/2 (52.5% from the field, 37 mpg)
Landry (March): 18.7/6.8/.8 (53.9% from the field, 37 mpg)

It should also be noted that Landry saw a huge drop off in efficiancy when he come over here and got a starter role (but still, he was over 50% with us). He had a couple months of a (prime)Shaqesque 58% from the field over in Houstin, but in less minutes, with less shot attempts and less overall ppg. I'd love the guy off the bench, just really dont like him as a starter with his lack of size, passing and anemic rebounding. Landry's stats with Houstin were guady in limited minutes, he came here and still put up points but saw very little increase in rebounding with increased PT. Props for his scrappyness though (that Dirk teeth thing was gross).

As for JT, his overall stats took a hit by his epic, two month long, mid season slump. But when he's on his game I think he's more valuable than Landry with his better rebounding, passing (Landry really struck me as a black hole when I watched the games, and his stats reflect this), and his ability to come off the bench for both PF and C due to his size. Also, he's a couple years younger, and as Baja mentioned a couple posts above, this season could be his breakout year.

IMHO, JT is a way better fit for us than Landry. In a couple years we're probably going to see 20+ppg from both Reke and Cuz, so we really dont need another big scorer (especially if he isnt good for much else). I imagine we're gonna be seeing 15+ ppg from Greene and/or Omri eventually as well. Given all that, I'd take 13/9.5 from JT over 18/6 from Landry.

But....I think most of us are on the same page about this

Also, Baja made a great point about leadership. JT seems to love this team, he puts a lot of work in, and I can imagine he's probably a great locker room guy. Plus, he's totally BFFs with Greene. You cant seperate BFFs.

 

[bajaden]

.

Either way, trading JT doesn't make the most sense until we know who we're keeping next summer.

This, in essence is what decides the outcome. Its possible that the powers that be will make that decision before the Feb. trade deadline. But I suspect that the final outcome is as much a mystery to them as it is to us at the moment..

 

[funkykingston]

Landry is one of those guys you LOVE to have coming off the bench. Tough nosed, physical even if a bit undersized, and just an energy boost who can pile up points as a sixth man. I dig the idea of having him in that role. The issue is, he'll likely command far too much money in free agency for a guy with that kind of role.

Or perhaps not. I think most teams saw what he did in Houston and thought (as we did) that putting him in a starters role would mean bigger minutes and an proportional increase in production. Yet, as is often the case, he put up a few more points but not nearly as many as the extra minutes would have indicated and his rebounding barely improved.

So perhaps the market for Landry won't be that big. He's most appealing to teams in serious contention or very close to it and those teams almost never have caproom. So perhaps MLE type money keeps him here. I'd be okay with that.

But otherwise, while I'd hate to lose a great sixth man, energy guy like Landry I'll take the bigger, more versatile (and for the moment) cheaper JT.

 

[Rookie]

...JT seems to love this team, he puts a lot of work in, and I can imagine he's probably a great locker room guy. Plus, he's totally BFFs with Greene. You cant seperate BFFs.

I have to disagree...he went to Israel for Casspi.

 

[Superman]

IMHO, JT is a way better fit for us than Landry. In a couple years we're probably going to see 20+ppg from both Reke and Cuz, so we really dont need another big scorer (especially if he isnt good for much else). I imagine we're gonna be seeing 15+ ppg from Greene and/or Omri eventually as well. Given all that, I'd take 13/9.5 from JT over 18/6 from Landry.

Landry is the kind of guy that most championship teams have coming off the bench. He's a very valuable player for a team with those kind of aspirations. And he's obviously best in a 6th man role. What makes him likely to be moved is the fact that his contract is up, and some team is going to value him in that role more than we do. It would be better for us to get something back for him than to just watch him walk for nothing. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if he's moved in a deadline deal to a contender for a backup point guard or something like that.

If I had my druthers, however, our big man rotation would stay five deep, and it would include Landry in a very involved bench role as our best reserve scorer, and we'd hang on to him. Whiteside is still just a second round pick, hasn't proven anything, and might not be in our long term plans. Until he's ready to play a significant role, we have to keep Landry.

 

[Merdiesel]

This guys an idiot. Dalembert gets dealt before anyone.

 

[Warhawk]

This guys an idiot. Dalembert gets dealt before anyone.

I would say Landry, but Sam isn't far behind I think. All probably depends on cost to re-sign.

 

[King Baller]

JT has a mean streak behind his good natured smile. I think JT will thrive with the other big men that have been added to the Kings. JT & Cousins or JT & Dally should make for good rebounding/defensive combos. Also both those combos should score plenty in the paint. I like Landry coming in for a change of pace scoring punch with the second unit. Whiteside can be a designated defensive specialist until he develops more of his game.

Don't trade any of these big guys until this team has a chance to work together. We all have no way of knowing how the team will mesh until the season gets well under way. These things can take time

KB

 

[pshn80]

JT has a mean streak behind his good natured smile. I think JT will thrive with the other big men that have been added to the Kings. JT & Cousins or JT & Dally should make for good rebounding/defensive combos. Also both those combos should score plenty in the paint. I like Landry coming in for a change of pace scoring punch with the second unit. Whiteside can be a designated defensive specialist until he develops more of his game.

Don't trade any of these big guys until this team has a chance to work together. We all have no way of knowing how the team will mesh until the season gets well under way. These things can take time

KB

Agree with your comments. Too early to even guess what is best, and it will be fun watching the process. So far, and its early, I like them all and hope it clicks.

 

[mr. moustache]

Agree with your comments. Too early to even guess what is best, and it will be fun watching the process. So far, and its early, I like them all and hope it clicks.

I think JT can be a championship quality starting PF, more so than Landry or SamD can be at their respective positions. He just needs to focus on playing good positional defense and allowing Tyreke and Cousins to open up his scoring opportunities.

On the other hand, if SamD and Landry were willing to be bench players with contracts in the 6m range; I'd be thrilled to have them each playing 20m a game. That's a championship quality bench. If Whiteside ever amounts to anything, SamD would be easily tradable at that salary.

 

[SacTownKid]

Season averages:

JT: 12.5/8.5/1.7 (47.2% from the field, 31mpg)
Landry: 18/6.5/.8 (52% from the field, 37 mpg)

Best month of each:

JT (December): 16.6/8.9/2 (52.5% from the field, 37 mpg)
Landry (March): 18.7/6.8/.8 (53.9% from the field, 37 mpg)

It should also be noted that Landry saw a huge drop off in efficiancy when he come over here and got a starter role (but still, he was over 50% with us). He had a couple months of a (prime)Shaqesque 58% from the field over in Houstin, but in less minutes, with less shot attempts and less overall ppg. I'd love the guy off the bench, just really dont like him as a starter with his lack of size, passing and anemic rebounding. Landry's stats with Houstin were guady in limited minutes, he came here and still put up points but saw very little increase in rebounding with increased PT. Props for his scrappyness though (that Dirk teeth thing was gross).

As for JT, his overall stats took a hit by his epic, two month long, mid season slump. But when he's on his game I think he's more valuable than Landry with his better rebounding, passing (Landry really struck me as a black hole when I watched the games, and his stats reflect this), and his ability to come off the bench for both PF and C due to his size. Also, he's a couple years younger, and as Baja mentioned a couple posts above, this season could be his breakout year.

IMHO, JT is a way better fit for us than Landry. In a couple years we're probably going to see 20+ppg from both Reke and Cuz, so we really dont need another big scorer (especially if he isnt good for much else). I imagine we're gonna be seeing 15+ ppg from Greene and/or Omri eventually as well. Given all that, I'd take 13/9.5 from JT over 18/6 from Landry.

But....I think most of us are on the same page about this

Also, Baja made a great point about leadership. JT seems to love this team, he puts a lot of work in, and I can imagine he's probably a great locker room guy. Plus, he's totally BFFs with Greene. You cant seperate BFFs.

What should also be noted, and something that isn't necessarily reflected in the numbers is that Landry put up those stats as a legit number 2 option. Thompson, while extremely productive, was never a player that other teams geared their defenses toward.

Who's a better fit for us? Doesn't matter, it's who's a better fit next to Cuz. I think the Kings' depth is going to be an asset in terms of finding out the who part. We have 3 very different types of players. A shotblocker/defender, a scorer, and a hustle rebounder. One things for sure, one of them is going to look better next to Cousins for this team and whoever that is you either keep, or trade in for an upgrade with the same skill set. My early bet is on Daly/Whiteside being the best fit. I really liked how Cousins looked next to a rangy shotblocker in summer league, covered up a lot of his weaknesses.

 

[gunks]

All good points. I think its going to get interesting around the deadline. I really cant wait for the season to start.

 

[fnordius]

This thread makes far more sense than the article did.

 

[bajaden]

This thread makes far more sense than the article did.

Well, since I don't understand any of this, I probably shouldn't read the article.

 

[Chupacabra]

Most Kings articles are written by people that dont know the Kings situation inside and out. Which is fine, most people dont. I would put money on the Kings keeping Thompson. Landry will be too expensive to retain. Dalembert will probably want more than hes worth for more time than hes worth. JT is a versatile player that can be retained at reasonable value. A future front court of Cousins/Thompson/Whiteside/Some guy is dominant.