De'Aaron Fox:

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dude12

Hall of Famer
#361
#361
By not trading up, you get as good or better player as Fox at 5 AND you fill a need with a PG or SF. Hard to fathom that guys just want to throw away the pick at 10 to move up a few spots. That is what you would be doing by combining 5 and 10 to assure you get Fox.

I mean, put things in perspective. We are so bereft of good talent on this roster that we can't afford to take this gamble. 5 and 34? Sure. 5 and 10? We are NOT 1 player away from being good.
 
The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#363
#363
gunks said:
Agreed!

If Fox is gone, take Tatum.... or even Isaac.

Maybe we can move up a bit from 10 and get Smith or Ntilikina (sp? Haha). Hell, we might not even have to move up to grab one of them.

More assets the better.
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I agree completely. It's not #5 we should be looking to move up from, but #10. It's a nine player draft IMO, our boon in this situation would be having two picks in this stacked draft in that range. We should be talking to Orlando, Minnesota, or New York in my mind and try to pry their a pick from them. This is where Portland 1sts could really come into play.
 
KingsSelecao

KingsSelecao

Bench
#368
#368
I love the Philly trade. Kings 5th and Mclemore for the Sixers 3rd(Fox) and Okafor. I would do that yesterday. I would not give up on Jahil. Still only 21. To say he's a bust is a joke. Still averages 14pts a game and 8 boards. Under Joerger's coaching. I can definitely see an improvement in his game 20-10 possibility.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#369
#369
First thing I would say is consider the source. This is Chad Ford that we are talking about. The same Chad Ford that has suggested that Kings will not be able to get any of the prospects in for a workout so is anyone really surprised with his logic of coming up with the latest info from "sources"?

- No one wants to go work out for the Kings
- Fox is the only top 5 prospect that has gone to workout for the Kings....crap...therefore Kings are desperate to pick a player who wants them
- Fox is gaining traction as potentially being a top 3-4 pick so let's say sources say that Kings are willing to give up pick 5 and 10 to get Fox at 3.

There is so much crap being posted leading up to the draft that it just is not believable until the day of the draft when draftexpress starts leaking the agreed deals (like Marco for pick 22 last year).

I am not against trading up to get the can't miss franchise level talent. I love Fox. Outside of Fultz, he is #1 on my board of possibly available talent. I think he fits this team like a glove. He is a speedster who pushes the tempo and can get to the rim at will due to his speed and handles. The only question marks I have is will his body really fill out or is he going to be a skinny wiry type his whole career and does his jumpshot improve to the point where he can be a franchise level player?

I am reasonably comfortable that his jumper will get better. The kid is a gym rat and the form of his jumper looks a lot more compact and smooth from the workout videos....sure its not the same as the in game situation but it is a start and it will take time.

One thing I think this team lack is a leader. I think Fox provides that. I also think his willingness to push the tempo fits well with players like Skal, WCS and even Buddy and Malachi. I am not against trading up to get him if he gets picked up before Kings pick provided that Kings use the cap space to get back into mid 1st round (maybe with Portland and 15) to get a SF out of it (OG or someone like that)
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#370
#370
@206Fan

My last sentence in my post you quoted may not have been clear. I am not saying it is or isn't the right thing to do (trading up to grab Fox or whoever), I was illustrating why you would.
The tourney game vs UCLA where Fox tore them up for 39 points shows what can happen when teams defend him like they have to respect his jumper.
Fox doesn't need to be a 40% 3p shooter for players to have to respect his 3p shot. All indications point to improvment on his 3p shot as not only possible, but probable.
On the point of more darts or horses in the race: We have absolutely no guarantee that we will get another good pick anytime soon and we need our star. Is it a good chance we are in the lottery again next year? Yes. Are we guaranteed that we will have a top 5 pick? No.

You can't keep stacking mid-lotto picks like always and expect different results. Standing pat and taking what we're given is what we've always done (or worse). We have been down that road and know exactly where it ends.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#371
#371
funkykingston said:
I'd be ecstatic if the draft played out like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...le-fultz-lonzo-ball/x9kcgpq33n4u18lpqjtq1qak3
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That would be a home run pick draft for the Kings!

With 34 you go with the best prospect available. Draftexpress has Juwan Evans going at 34 which would be great for us. I also wouldn't mind a big men here who is a bit of a banger. I think a lot of the projected 1st round bigs will slide into the second round and with an early pick there, Kings are well placed to get a very productive player at that pick.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#373
#373
dude12 said:
By not trading up, you get as good or better player as Fox at 5
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Not sure how you're so certain about that. Could be true, but could very easily be wrong. I personally don't see any player with Fox's upside being available @ #5. Hell, Fox probably won't be available either -- and for good reason.

I'm also finding it very interesting that those finding warts with Fox's game can then be so high or Isaac and/or Smith. Those 2 have a lot more question marks at this point in time and would be bigger draft gambles.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#377
#377
Čarolija said:
They are just reporting what Chad Ford reported and quoting him too.
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Oh alright, I did not see Fords report just Jason Jones in the Bee. Hey at least it was not Ailene's report.
If the Kings do this I would like to think they have a young SF like Harkless in mind or who knows perhaps a good SF will fall at 34
 
The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#379
#379
KingsFanSince85 said:
According to you.

Who says that they do? We're speculating. We have no idea who they're all in on, if they're all in, or what they may be willing to do.
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And most draft experts and fans. Fultz, Ball, and Jackson are the consensus Top 3. When Fox is thrown in that discussion, it's as a sleeper pick. When draft experts speculate Philly picking Jackson, they usually say "Philly goes BPA."

And we are speculating, but we're speculating because Chad Ford made that (probably BS) report about moving up.

KingsFanSince85 said:
Not sure how you're so certain about that. Could be true, but could very easily be wrong. I personally don't see any player with Fox's upside being available @ #5. Hell, Fox probably won't be available either -- and for good reason.

I'm also finding it very interesting that those finding warts with Fox's game can then be so high or Isaac and/or Smith. Those 2 have a lot more question marks at this point in time and would be bigger draft gambles.
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It's the draft, it's never certain. Pretty much everything may or may not work out. It's about making the most educated guess you can since it's an inexact science. Talking about certainties in the draft is a flimsy excuse to keep betting against yourself.

Since you're talking upside, there you go. Those other two you mentioned, they both have more upside, and no one has said they don't have warts. Smith has injury concerns, attitude concerns, and concerns about his length. Isaac could easily bust out. Fox is the safest of the three but he has his concerns as well. If you ask me who becomes the best pro in the end, I'd probably say Fox. But Isaac might be my favorite.

I'm starting to feel people getting tunnel vision over Fox. I've already explained why I don't like it.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#380
#380
I like Fox at five, though I wouldn't trade up to get him. If he was that special there would be no chance of the 76ers or Suns passing on him. If they are willing to trade back and pass on Fox, when arguably both teams could use a PG (in the Suns case it would allow them to move on from the injury prone Bledsoe), then alarm bells start to ring to an extent.

For me, if we do this trade it would be the equivalent of the Bears moving up one spot to take Mitch Trubisky. On the one hand it gets the team the player it wants, but on the other it means sacrificing valuable picks. I would rather see us wait and see who is available at five since we'll be able to draft one from Ball, Smith, Fox, Monk, Jackson, Tatum or Isaac. Then we can use our tenth pick on someone else.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#381
#381
I think Philadelphia and Phoenix might be the ones standing between Fox and Sacramento.

I don't for a moment buy the Lakers interest in Fox. I think its a whole heap of diversion tactics to see if there is a team out there looking to pay ridiculous price for #2 pick. I think when the "dust settles" Lakers will pick Ball.

I highly doubt Philadelphia will draft Fox for themselves. What I think they will do is be open to trading down. Monk is by fat the best fit for them. It could be one of teams in the 6-8 range that might be keen on Fox and are willing to trade up. I can see Magic trying to trade up, not sure about Timberwolves and I can't see Jackson trading up to draft a PG that doesn't fit the triangle offense.

Then there are teams that might be prepared to trade an established star to Philadelphia for 3rd pick and chance to pick Fox. Somehow, I thinkt that might be less likely.

Now Phoenix is the real wildcard here. Do they trade Beldsoe and draft yet another Kentucky guard to pair with Booker or do they look to address the SF position? They need a C so do they trade down to get a shot at a C or do they trade Bledsoe for a pick and use it on C once they have drafted Fox at 4.

If they stick with Bledsoe then I doubt they pick Fox. If Bledsoe is their PG, then Jackson is a great fit for them but what if Philadelphia picks him at 3. Will they pick Tatum or will they pull a bit of a surprise and pick Isaac?! If they pick Isaac, Kings get to pick between Fox and Tatum. Orlando would be all over Tatum if he last until 6.

So in summary, I think Phoenix is the biggest threat here for the Kings when it coms to Fox.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#382
#382
If there are no trades I think Philly thanks Jackson and Phoenix takes Fox. Even with trades I expect the top four picks to include those two players. The closer we get to the draft the more obvious it seems to me that there's a consensus top four and then a drop after that. Tatum just doesn't belong with Fox or Jackson. Neither does Isaac. If we want Fox (or Jackson) we have to trade up imo. If not, draft Isaac and be happy about it at five.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#383
#383
The Fox hype train is something phenomenal. He obviously sounds like the guy we should all prefer at 5 if there... but the way his stock has skyrocketed in the last few weeks just gives me pause.

BPA at 5 - that's it. Unless Philly wants to do a reasonable trade.

If we give up 5+10 for Fox I will throw something at the TV

If we get him at 5 or with a fair trade, I'll be elated.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#384
#384
I love Fox and I'm still not sold on him as a transformational talent. So I'm not sure I'd want to trade #5 and #10 just to make sure the Kings land him.

Then again, I'm not really thrilled with who I think will be left at #10.

Is some combination of Tatum or Isaac at #5 and Ntilikina, Mitchell, Collins or Markannen at #10 better than Fox?

I honestly don't have a good answer right now.
 
kingjatt

kingjatt

Starter
#385
#385
Im also not as high on Fox as alot of kings fans might be, I just watch the high level playoff basketball and see that if you can't break down defenses and playmake or shoot lights out from the three and your under 6'7 your pretty much a liability out there because elite teams will force switches to try to expose your height or slender frame on defense. I do love his passion and will but we have been in love with tourney darlings before (Jimmer,Buddy) only to see them not immediately translate to the NBA. (Jury still out on Buddy.)

Im more of a Monk or even Dennis Smith guy myself, they can at least do one thing at an elite level already and in the case of Monk he may have been held back by Calipari.

Fox COULD be the guy, who knows, we dont have the access that vlade and co have but one thing that encourages me is that Vlade was willing to take a guy (Papa) last year that he knew would cause a firestorm among fans and did it anyway because he liked him. After the Cuz trade and 2 year promise/a little fire under his seat would he be willing to go non consensus again? Then again there was not as big of a hype train for a guy like there is for Fox so there will be more pressure to try to get him.

Whoever they chose will not be easy because these guys are so close in talent level, its going to quite fun to analyze this particular draft in the years to come(unless of course we end up with the one guy who doesn't turn into a star).
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#386
#386
funkykingston said:
I love Fox and I'm still not sold on him as a transformational talent. So I'm not sure I'd want to trade #5 and #10 just to make sure the Kings land him.

Then again, I'm not really thrilled with who I think will be left at #10.

Is some combination of Tatum or Isaac at #5 and Ntilikina, Mitchell, Collins or Markannen at #10 better than Fox?

I honestly don't have a good answer right now.
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Those are good prospects that can be better than Fox individually. IMO we are lucky to have the 10 in such a class where the general consensus is
 
Jkbiker

Jkbiker

Starter
#387
#387
Mike said:
I like Fox at five, though I wouldn't trade up to get him. If he was that special there would be no chance of the 76ers or Suns passing on him. If they are willing to trade back and pass on Fox, when arguably both teams could use a PG (in the Suns case it would allow them to move on from the injury prone Bledsoe), then alarm bells start to ring to an extent.

For me, if we do this trade it would be the equivalent of the Bears moving up one spot to take Mitch Trubisky. On the one hand it gets the team the player it wants, but on the other it means sacrificing valuable picks. I would rather see us wait and see who is available at five since we'll be able to draft one from Ball, Smith, Fox, Monk, Jackson, Tatum or Isaac. Then we can use our tenth pick on someone else.
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If Kings copy the Bears and give away the farm(#5 and#10) to move up for Fox I will be very upset , at least Mitch was the #1 QB in the draft, Fox is probably the #4 or #5 BPA

If Kings get a first rounder from Portland by using cap space, I am ok trading Portland's pick and #34 to move up the #5 up to get Fox or Move up the #10 a few slots so After the 5th pick we can get a good PG or SF to fill both of our needs
such as a Fox and Issac or Tatum and frank,

A #5 and #10 trade should only be used for Pick #1 or maybe #2 not for 3or4
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#389
#389
You are correct. Chad Fraud will be gone from ESPN in a few weeks. He retroactively changed his last mock in 2014 and got called on it. He is using our past ineptitude and mistakes to get clicks.

Now all over the internet I see fans of PHX, PHI, etc running with the idea we will trade 5 and 10 for Fox. I mean really PHX fans? 5 and 10 to move up 1 slot? Get out of here with that.

Even if our FO is solid now, it will take a few good years to quell our bad reputation.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#390
#390
The Effort Police said:
And most draft experts and fans. Fultz, Ball, and Jackson are the consensus Top 3. When Fox is thrown in that discussion, it's as a sleeper pick. When draft experts speculate Philly picking Jackson, they usually say "Philly goes BPA."

And we are speculating, but we're speculating because Chad Ford made that (probably BS) report about moving up.



It's the draft, it's never certain. Pretty much everything may or may not work out. It's about making the most educated guess you can since it's an inexact science. Talking about certainties in the draft is a flimsy excuse to keep betting against yourself.

Since you're talking upside, there you go. Those other two you mentioned, they both have more upside, and no one has said they don't have warts. Smith has injury concerns, attitude concerns, and concerns about his length. Isaac could easily bust out. Fox is the safest of the three but he has his concerns as well. If you ask me who becomes the best pro in the end, I'd probably say Fox. But Isaac might be my favorite.

I'm starting to feel people getting tunnel vision over Fox. I've already explained why I don't like it.
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I appreciate the articulate reply and your opinion. We're obviously just on completely different sides of the fence on this.

Also, TBH, I didn't know about and hadn't read Chad Ford's speculative article when I replied to you. At least now I understand what was being referenced. Regardless, I still support doing whatever it takes to get Fox. I hope it doesn't take a trade and that they can land him by sitting and waiting @ #5. But if that's not possible because they feel he will be gone before they're on the board, then I'm ok with trading #5 and a player or #34 or #10 --- whatever combo would work -- to land him. I don't think #5 and #34 would get it done. But #5 and a player might. #5 and #10 almost certainly would. While I wouldn't hope for that to have to happen, I'm ok with it if it nets the goods.

That said, if you're not sold on Fox -- I totally get why you'd be against a trade. That's fine. But anybody that says he isn't worth the trade up simply doesn't know that for sure. Conversely, those championing the move could be wrong as well. That's what makes all of this so interesting.
 
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