De'Aaron Fox:

[Ozymandias]

I agree with most sixers fans that Fox is a bad fit for them. Simmons drives and kicks to Fox?

Fox can slash! he'll have the most acceleration in the whole league going to his left. They were wrong but back when Fox was rated as 4-stars by Scout.com, they had him listed as a SG.. True story.

The real key, I think, it'd work is the idea is to run run run and Fox can help create transition opportunities with his ability to get man defense steals, steals in the passing lanes and ability to 1 man press off of made baskets.

 

[itzcoatl]

Fox can slash! he'll have the most acceleration in the whole league going to his left. They were wrong but back when Fox was rated as 4-stars by Scout.com, they had him listed as a SG.. True story.

The real key, I think, it'd work is the idea is to run run run and Fox can help create transition opportunities with his ability to get man defense steals, steals in the passing lanes and ability to 1 man press off of made baskets.

I'm definitely not the right guy to evaluate talent, but from what I have read, there is a sizable portion of people on line that think fox has a high bust potential due to his shot.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm definitely not the right guy to evaluate talent, but from what I have read, there is a sizable portion of people on line that think fox has a high bust potential due to his shot.

It's nonsense, and based on way too small a sample size. He can shoot it well enough to keep the defense honest, he'll keep getting better too, shooting is the easiest skill for players to improve while in the NBA. Michael Jordan shot like 18% from 3 in his first 3 seasons IIRC.. Fox is hands-down a better 3pt shooter than John Wall at the same stage and Wall as you saw in game 6 vs the Celtics is good enough to knock down a 3 with the game on the line.

I watch this crap very closely and have concluded, a long time ago, that Fox is not the kid to be doubting, i'll just put it that way.. Ever since I made that distinction he's only reinforced it, he passes the eye test with flying colors, you don't need to watch him as closely as I have to see it.

 

[206Fan]

The reason you would make a deal to move up to grab Fox, or whoever, is because you have a vision of the team your trying to assemble. You know how you want your team to play, and the type of players you need. You do a deal that may seem overpriced, a reach, ect , because your the one who knows what your trying to build. Finally, you deal 5/10 to get player X or whatever scenario, because player X is crucial to your vision coming to fruition and you have one shot to draft him.

Our front office has been visionless for an eternity it feels. IF they have a direction, a vision finally , then you do everything you can to put it together. Every step of the building is fragile and time and situationaly sensitive. If player X is vital, you get him. Period.

I am not saying what is or isn't, just answering the "why?"

Is the vision really to build around a non-shooting PG in the era of elite 3pt shooting? That's a terrible vision imo. Especially if you're wasting a valuable asset(10th overall) to get there, when there's a good chance he'll be there at 5 without trading up anyways. Is Fox the elite prospect some claim he is? I think that's the discussion...

Yeah, they're spoiled though, too many assets has them getting too picky. it's actually dumb as far as I'm concerned he'd be a great fit there, they'd run the break at warp speed with him and Simmons and Embiid (and to a lesser extent Tim Luwawu).

Collin Sexton in next years draft (fastest / quickest PG in that pool) might be a better fit for them tho, he's a pure scoring guard tho, not a pure PG.

Fox would be a horrible fit on the Sixers. Fox is a ball dominant scoring PG who can't shoot the 3. Their franchise player is Simmons.. a ball dominant all-around SF/PF who can't shoot the 3. That's an extremely poor fit, and there's other players who are just as talented as Fox that will be available at 3. Why would you do that to Simmons? Sixers already made it clear that they intend to put Simmons at PG. Fox will not be effective as an off-ball player.

Fox is not a better shooter than Wall was at Kentucky. You can't sugarcoat 24.6%...

 

[Ozymandias]

Is the vision really to build around a non-shooting PG in the era of elite 3pt shooting? That's a terrible vision imo. Especially if you're wasting a valuable asset(10th overall) to get there, when there's a good chance he'll be there at 5 without trading up anyways. Is Fox the elite prospect some claim he is? I think that's the discussion...


Fox would be a horrible fit on the Sixers. Fox is a ball dominant scoring PG who can't shoot the 3. Their franchise player is Simmons.. a ball dominant all-around SF/PF who can't shoot the 3. That's an extremely poor fit, and there's other players who are just as talented as Fox that will be available at 3. Why would you do that to Simmons? Sixers already made it clear that they intend to put Simmons at PG. Fox will not be effective as an off-ball player.

Fox is not a better shooter than Wall was at Kentucky. You can't sugarcoat 24.6%...

You're wrong bruh, what did Coach Cal drill into Fox's head the most? I'll tell you, it was to use his speed effectively, to play as fast as possible, he's not nearly as ball dominant as you think when you hear the words floor-general. He can do a whole lot in just 2-3 seconds/2-3 dribbles, he's got BLAZING acceleration from a stand-still.

He's clearly a better shooter than Wall was, it's not sugarcoating it. I'm certain it's based off a shooting slump at the start of the season and a small sample size.

Trey Lyles shot what 13 or 18% from 3 at UK? The Jazz drafted him in the lotto because of how well he shot the ball from 3 in workouts.

 

[bajaden]

I'm definitely not the right guy to evaluate talent, but from what I have read, there is a sizable portion of people on line that think fox has a high bust potential due to his shot.

Here's the thing. If you used that as criteria for choosing, or not choosing a player, you'd eliminate more than half of all the players. I know this will shound simplistic, but when you watch a player play, you can get a feel for whether he'll be able to improve his shot or not. Some players miss because of simple fundamental breakedowns, and other miss because they have no feel for shooting the ball. Kevin Martin was an inconsistent shooter when he came to the Kings. Everyone thought it was because of the hitch in his form. But Coachie, after working with Martin, told him that it was as simple as not getting his focus on the basket before he started his shot.

You can't hit what your not looking at. Once Martin started getting his eye's on the basket, his shot started to go in. Some players have poor shot selection, or put up a lot of highly contested shots. Others tend to shoot off balance. My point is, most of those things are correctable, and if a player puts in the work, he'll improve. Jason Kidd was a terrible 3 pt shooter when he came into the league, and yet he's one of the all time leaders in 3 pt shots made. A player as quick as Fox, who has the ability to get into the lane or to the basket as will, doesn't have to be a lights out shooter. All he needs to be, is a respectable shooter to where they have to step out and guard him.

I've listened to what a lot of the scouts have had to say in regards to Fox, and I've yet to hear one say they think he might be a bust.

 

[bajaden]

You're wrong bruh, what did Coach Cal drill into Fox's head the most? I'll tell you, it was to use his speed effectively, to play as fast as possible, he's not nearly as ball dominant as you think when you hear the words floor-general. He can do a whole lot in just 2-3 seconds/2-3 dribbles, he's got BLAZING acceleration from a stand-still.

He's clearly a better shooter than Wall was, it's not sugarcoating it. I'm certain it's based off a shooting slump at the start of the season and a small sample size.

Trey Lyles shot what 13 or 18% from 3 at UK? The Jazz drafted him in the lotto because of how well he shot the ball from 3 in workouts.

Not sure where this ball dominate thing came from. Fox played the exact same way that almost all Kentucky PG's play. They use a dribble drive system, and it's up to the PG to get into the lane and break down the other teams defense. Fox was excellent at that. Probably the best at it since Wall. I've said a million times, when you watch a player in college, its almost as important to know the system of the college as it is to watch the player play. Some schools are great at covering up a players flaws. (Syracuse). Others tend to hide some of the talents of the players. Kentucky, and for a while, UCLA fit that model.

No one knew that Cousins could handle the ball the way he does. Ditto Booker, who surprised everyone except those that had seen him play regularly at Kentucky. The list goes on. Fox will be on that list before long. As I've said before, I'm not a fan of players, especially PG's that can't shoot the ball, and I have zero reservations about Fox. The kid is a hard worker and he will improve, and I suspect he'll improve quickly.

 

[206Fan]

You're wrong bruh, what did Coach Cal drill into Fox's head the most? I'll tell you, it was to use his speed effectively, to play as fast as possible, he's not nearly as ball dominant as you think when you hear the words floor-general. He can do a whole lot in just 2-3 seconds/2-3 dribbles, he's got BLAZING acceleration from a stand-still.

Fox wasn't much of a floor general though. Not directed towards you at all, but I'm really tired of people bringing up his passing as a strength. His playmaking is extremely overrated for being the worst passer out of Fultz, Ball, and Smith Jr. Fultz averaged 5.9assists/game. DSJ at 6.3assists/game. Yet, they're both guys who are being touted as score-first PGs who aren't good passers.. meanwhile, Fox is considered a good playmaker with his 4.6 assists/game...
Fox's assist's % was at only 28.6% compared to Smith Jrs' 34.2%. One might say, "well DSJ dominates the ball more", but he doesn't.. Fox has a usage % of 27.6, while DSJ has a usage % of 27.2.

I don't think Fox would be a good fit next to Simmons. Simmons is a non existent 3pt shooter who barely even took mid-range jumpers. I think unless they surround the entire team with capable 3pt shooters, or Simmons magically shows a 3pt shot, then they'll struggle together on the floor. Fox is lightning quick, but when you have that many ball dominant players on the floor (Simmons, Fox, Embiid, Saric), then it's going to be difficult. If they were to pick a PG, DSJ would be the most ideal fit.

 

[Ozymandias]

Fox wasn't much of a floor general though. Not directed towards you at all, but I'm really tired of people bringing up his passing as a strength. His playmaking is extremely overrated for being the worst passer out of Fultz, Ball, and Smith Jr. Fultz averaged 5.9assists/game. DSJ at 6.3assists/game. Yet, they're both guys who are being touted as score-first PGs who aren't good passers.. meanwhile, Fox is considered a good playmaker with his 4.6 assists/game...
Fox's assist's % was at only 28.6% compared to Smith Jrs' 34.2%. One might say, "well DSJ dominates the ball more", but he doesn't.. Fox has a usage % of 27.6, while DSJ has a usage % of 27.2.

I don't think Fox would be a good fit next to Simmons. Simmons is a non existent 3pt shooter who barely even took mid-range jumpers. I think unless they surround the entire team with capable 3pt shooters, or Simmons magically shows a 3pt shot, then they'll struggle together on the floor. Fox is lightning quick, but when you have that many ball dominant players on the floor (Simmons, Fox, Embiid, Saric), then it's going to be difficult. If they were to pick a PG, DSJ would be the most ideal fit.

You're wrong. Fox can function in many ways and thats how he was used at UK, he also played in a 3 guard look, one of whom Isaiah Briscoe, must have the ball to be effective... He's built to rack up assists in the NBA because he can beat his defender quickly and decisively and make the correct read.


Trey Burke's usage rate was 28.3% and assist was 37.3% in college many were convinced he was a floor general, certainly ex-Kings' coach Ty Corbin thought so, but in reality he's just a 6' SG, a glorified eddie house.

 

[bajaden]

Fox wasn't much of a floor general though. Not directed towards you at all, but I'm really tired of people bringing up his passing as a strength. His playmaking is extremely overrated for being the worst passer out of Fultz, Ball, and Smith Jr. Fultz averaged 5.9assists/game. DSJ at 6.3assists/game. Yet, they're both guys who are being touted as score-first PGs who aren't good passers.. meanwhile, Fox is considered a good playmaker with his 4.6 assists/game...
Fox's assist's % was at only 28.6% compared to Smith Jrs' 34.2%. One might say, "well DSJ dominates the ball more", but he doesn't.. Fox has a usage % of 27.6, while DSJ has a usage % of 27.2.

I don't think Fox would be a good fit next to Simmons. Simmons is a non existent 3pt shooter who barely even took mid-range jumpers. I think unless they surround the entire team with capable 3pt shooters, or Simmons magically shows a 3pt shot, then they'll struggle together on the floor. Fox is lightning quick, but when you have that many ball dominant players on the floor (Simmons, Fox, Embiid, Saric), then it's going to be difficult. If they were to pick a PG, DSJ would be the most ideal fit.

Fultz, Smith, and Ball, all had, for the most part, carte blanche to do what ever they wanted on the court. Fox didn't!!!!! I'm so tired of trying to make this point. The system a player plays in matters, and it matters a lot. Just ask Derrick Favors. You can throw stats at me all day long and it won't matter to me. I saw every game Kentucky played, and Fox is my guy. The only player I would draft before Fox is Fultz. If you could guarantee me that Smith is going to play with the same fire and intensity that Fox does, then I'll include him in that group.

Speaking of Fox, here's an nice article by Scott Howard Cooper. Hope it hasn't been posted already.

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/06/05/deaaron-fox-point-guard-top-5-draft-boards

 

[kingsboi]

FWIW I was just reading youtube comments of a sixers radio show and there were very few sixers fans that wanted Fox.

Good thing the Sixers fans don't make the personnel decisions, huh?

 

[bajaden]

Good thing the Sixers fans don't make the personnel decisions, huh?

I'm hoping the Sixer's base their decision on a fan poll....

 

[Ozymandias]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2017/...10-move-up-for-deaaron-fox-philadelphia-76ers

Tis the season for hoards of rumors to begin filtering in and out of NBA front offices leading up to the June 22nd’s draft. In other words, it’s Chad Ford Soundbite Season.

Ford’s*newest mock draft*($) outlined several shakeups, beginning with the Sixers on the clock at No. 3, but the most interest tidbit he dropped concerned Sacramento’s rumored infatuation with University of Kentucky guard De’Aaron Fox. With Jackson going third to Philly and Fox landing in Phoenix at No. 4, Ford has*Jayson Tatum*and Frank Ntilikina mocked to the*Kings*at Nos. 5 and 10, respectively. But he noted that within the organization, there’s been talk of “combining picks Nos. 5 and 10 to move up in the draft to secure Fox”.

With the consensus being that*Markelle Fultz*andLonzo Ball*will be the first two players selected, these (hypothetical) conversations would almost definitely kick off with the Sixers at No. 3. They’vealready been linked to Fox multiple times, and with Phoenix a similar wild card at No. 4, it seems likely that Sacramento would have to go through Philadelphia first and foremost if they’re truly committed to securing his services on draft night.

It remains to be seen how interested the Sixers would be in such a deal, though. If they’re as interested in competing in the short-term as theiranticipated pursuit of All-Star guard Kyle Lowrywould indicate, moving back to add an extra rookie to the mix at No. 10 wouldn’t necessarily fall in line with that approach. And who knows, maybe this is just blowing smoke.

Nonetheless, it’s certainly something to monitor with the*NBA Draft*now just 16 days away. Hang in there.

@brianseltzer
Following this morning's pre-draft workout, Bryan Colangelo gave an update on the due diligence being done with the no. 3 pick:

1:10 PM - 5 Jun 2017

 

[kingjatt]

Fultz, Smith, and Ball, all had, for the most part, carte blanche to do what ever they wanted on the court. Fox didn't!!!!! I'm so tired of trying to make this point. The system a player plays in matters, and it matters a lot. Just ask Derrick Favors. You can throw stats at me all day long and it won't matter to me. I saw every game Kentucky played, and Fox is my guy. The only player I would draft before Fox is Fultz. If you could guarantee me that Smith is going to play with the same fire and intensity that Fox does, then I'll include him in that group.

Speaking of Fox, here's an nice article by Scott Howard Cooper. Hope it hasn't been posted already.

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/06/05/deaaron-fox-point-guard-top-5-draft-boards

Genuinely curious so if system matters should Monk be considered better too? We saw Devin Booker be limited at UK too what if Monk is better than what we saw?

 

[dude12]

If Vlade trades 5 and 10 to move up to draft Fox, he will have been hoodwinked once again.

 

[SacTownKid]

If Vlade trades 5 and 10 to move up to draft Fox, he will have been hoodwinked once again.

Hey, I think he's due after doing the hoodwinking in the draft last year. If Fox is who they want then go for it. Fox added to the core of young talent they have might be the best thing in the end if they feel he's the right player.

 

[SacTownKid]

Good thing the Sixers fans don't make the personnel decisions, huh?

If I'm Vlade I might almost be willing to test them and see if they took Fox because he's probably the worst fit in the top five for them. I can't see Simmons and Fox co-existing and not getting in the way of one another. It would be almost as bad as the too many centers debacle they've created in their previous drafts.

 

[dude12]

Hey, I think he's due after doing the hoodwinking in the draft last year. If Fox is who they want then go for it. Fox added to the core of young talent they have might be the best thing in the end if they feel he's the right player.

Just can't agree with this.......not with possibly bringing in 2 players at 5 and 10 who could be better than Fox......because this IS an inexact science.

 

[kingsboi]

If I'm Vlade I might almost be willing to test them and see if they took Fox because he's probably the worst fit in the top five for them. I can't see Simmons and Fox co-existing and not getting in the way of one another. It would be almost as bad as the too many centers debacle they've created in their previous drafts.

The front office needs to stand pat unless it's a deal they can't pass up. Hopefully the days where Vlade flinches first is over. It's time to call their bluff and it's being reported now that the Kings are "enamored" with Fox so they can't give in if all they have to show for is Fox and the 34th pick. They loved Dunn last season too but they didn't want to give up all the assets Minnesota was asking, make the right move here Vlade.

 

[SacTownKid]

Just can't agree with this.......not with possibly bringing in 2 players at 5 and 10 who could be better than Fox......because this IS an inexact science.

They kind of went with a quantity over quality method last year. I can see reasons why it might be time to target a player and do the opposite this year. Especially since they already have 3-4 young players that they are building around and there are various reasons why Fox would be a terrific fit.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

If Vlade trades 5 and 10 to move up to draft Fox, he will have been hoodwinked once again.

How so? If that's what it takes to get the desired player then that's what it takes. I get that nobody wants to give up #10, but if Vlade, Catanella and Perry are all-in on a particular player that is in no way guaranteed to be there at #5 -- that's not a bad trade to make.

Perhaps the Kings will get extremely lucky and the player they covet most will make it to #5. But the way things have been looking lately, if that player is FOX, there's a real danger of missing out on him if you don't trade up.

If they decided to make a trade up to #3 after BOS and LA's selections, how exactly could you proclaim that they've been hoodwinked? While perhaps you don't believe Philly would take Fox there, PHX could with the very next pick OR some other team could make a deal with PHI or PHX to trade up ahead of the Kings to steal the same player.

I would like to believe that they could trade up to #3 w/o having to part with #10 -- perhaps by trading an existing piece or even less likely with #34. However, that might not be a possibility and #10 might need to be leveraged.

I agree with @SacTownKid that this is the year to draft quality over quantity. If there's a player you believe to be a perfect fit with what you are currently building, you do everything you can within reason to get that player. The Kings already have a lot of young players to develop. Losing out on #10 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it landed the player they covet most.

 

[steelevt]

They kind of went with a quantity over quality method last year. I can see reasons why it might be time to target a player and do the opposite this year. Especially since they already have 3-4 young players that they are building around and there are various reasons why Fox would be a terrific fit.

Actually I think this is a year you do the opposite. This is a year the draft class is supposedly deep, so the more picks you get the more chances of getting good players. A weaker draft class you should trade up because there's only a few top tier players and you don't want to draft a lot of average players.

 

[funkykingston]

I'd be ecstatic if the draft played out like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...le-fultz-lonzo-ball/x9kcgpq33n4u18lpqjtq1qak3

 

[LPKingsFan]

Following this morning's pre-draft workout, Bryan Colangelo gave an update on the due diligence being done with the no. 3 pick:

1:10 PM - 5 Jun 2017

If Philly really thinks that there are several guys they'd be happy with at three, they should trade down and get another asset to show for it. Some sort of a deal sending #3 (one of the SFs) to the Magic (for Monk at #6) + some sweetener makes a lot of sense. But Fox still has to get past Phoenix.

 

[chasen4r1]

I'd be ecstatic if the draft played out like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...le-fultz-lonzo-ball/x9kcgpq33n4u18lpqjtq1qak3

This is my dream haul for this draft. Crossing my fingers and getting my hopes up.

.... I've seen where this kind of hope leads before. I'm scared.

 

[The Effort Police]

How so? If that's what it takes to get the desired player then that's what it takes. I get that nobody wants to give up #10, but if Vlade, Catanella and Perry are all-in on a particular player that is in no way guaranteed to be there at #5 -- that's not a bad trade to make.

Perhaps the Kings will get extremely lucky and the player they covet most will make it to #5. But the way things have been looking lately, if that player is FOX, there's a real danger of missing out on him if you don't trade up.

If they decided to make a trade up to #3 after BOS and LA's selections, how exactly could you proclaim that they've been hoodwinked? While perhaps you don't believe Philly would take Fox there, PHX could with the very next pick OR some other team could make a deal with PHI or PHX to trade up ahead of the Kings to steal the same player.

I would like to believe that they could trade up to #3 w/o having to part with #10 -- perhaps by trading an existing piece or even less likely with #34. However, that might not be a possibility and #10 might need to be leveraged.

I agree with @SacTownKid that this is the year to draft quality over quantity. If there's a player you believe to be a perfect fit with what you are currently building, you do everything you can within reason to get that player. The Kings already have a lot of young players to develop. Losing out on #10 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it landed the player they covet most.

Because the player they're all in on isn't worth it, and they SHOULDN'T be coveting him that much. If they miss out on him, they miss out. If you're going to trade up to #3, you should be targeting Jackson, not Fox. Though I don't think Jackson is worth both picks either; he's a better prospect. Fox has been rocketing up draft boards, but WHY has he been rocketing up draft boards? Probably because of his tournament play against Ball, but idk. Either way, he's on the same tier as guys like DSJ, Isaac, etc, in that #4-9 range. He is NOT in the Fultz, Ball, Jackson tier. If he's not there at #5, you take one of these other guys and move on. Personally, I flip-flop on how much I want Fox almost every day, and which of the three between him, Isaac, and DSJ I want to take at 5, but that's beside the point.

And people can talk all they want about getting their guy, but they had their targeted guy last year. It was Dunn, and once he (and Hield) were gone they went to Plan B. Smart move. Can you imagine if we traded up for him last year, giving up #8 and WCS to move up to #3 or something? All we'd have to show at this time post-Boogie would be Buddy Hield and Kris effing Dunn. But they would've gotten their guy!

Point is, falling in love with a single prospect unless it's a consensus, can't miss #1 pick is beyond moronic IMO. It can burn you so easily.

 

[Ozymandias]

If Philly really thinks that there are several guys they'd be happy with at three, they should trade down and get another asset to show for it. Some sort of a deal sending #3 (one of the SFs) to the Magic (for Monk at #6) + some sweetener makes a lot of sense. But Fox still has to get past Phoenix.

If this is how it plays out, LA taking Ball 2nd will really help. JJ falls to 4.

 

[Ozymandias]

Because the player they're all in on isn't worth it, and they SHOULDN'T be coveting him that much. If they miss out on him, they miss out. If you're going to trade up to #3, you should be targeting Jackson, not Fox. Though I don't think Jackson is worth both picks either; he's a better prospect. Fox has been rocketing up draft boards, but WHY has he been rocketing up draft boards? Probably because of his tournament play against Ball, but idk. Either way, he's on the same tier as guys like DSJ, Isaac, etc, in that #4-9 range. He is NOT in the Fultz, Ball, Jackson tier. If he's not there at #5, you take one of these other guys and move on. Personally, I flip-flop on how much I want Fox almost every day, and which of the three between him, Isaac, and DSJ I want to take at 5, but that's beside the point.

And people can talk all they want about getting their guy, but they had their targeted guy last year. It was Dunn, and once he (and Hield) were gone they went to Plan B. Smart move. Can you imagine if we traded up for him last year, giving up #8 and WCS to move up to #3 or something? All we'd have to show at this time post-Boogie would be Buddy Hield and Kris effing Dunn. But they would've gotten their guy!

Point is, falling in love with a single prospect unless it's a consensus, can't miss #1 pick is beyond moronic IMO. It can burn you so easily.

Kevin Durant wasn't even a consensus #1 tho....

 

[roasthawg]

If I'm Vlade I might almost be willing to test them and see if they took Fox because he's probably the worst fit in the top five for them. I can't see Simmons and Fox co-existing and not getting in the way of one another. It would be almost as bad as the too many centers debacle they've created in their previous drafts.

It's Phoenix we have to worry about. By trading with the sixers we'd be jumping the Suns and beating them to Fox. Not to mention any other teams looking to trade up to three to take Fox.

I'm against trading up, I'm fine with Isaac/ntlinka or some combo like that. But if we trade with Philly it's not cause we think Philly is gonna take Fox.

 

[pdizo916]

I'd be ecstatic if the draft played out like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...le-fultz-lonzo-ball/x9kcgpq33n4u18lpqjtq1qak3

I would be extremely happy if this pans out.