De’Aaron “Austin Reaves Sr.” Fox

Capt. Factorial said:
They have Amen and Cam and they can try to flip FVV for something. I don't care what their roster looks like, they're the ones chasing after Fox.



Please, please don't try to put a Smith/Eason package on par with Giannis. Please. I'm begging you.



You've got the 2025 trade deadline for a trade, and the 2025 offseason for a trade or an extension, and the 2026 trade deadline for a trade, and pre-free-agency 2026 for an extension, and free agency in 2026 for a max deal and even failing all of that the near certainty of a sign-and-trade before you need to worry about Fox leaving for nothing. Don't doom spiral into imagining yourself canceling your tickets just because some of us think it's a really bad idea to sell him off at pennies on the dollar now.
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Nobody wants to sell him for pennies we just know what klutch means and they already did there “meeting”. Obviously we all want fox to stay but if we get bounced in the play in it’s probably not happening. And nobody is trading for Fox at next years deadline that’s pure fantasy if he wants out he’s asking out this summer and will get traded this summer. There’s no let’s see how we are by next deadline the playbook has already been played before
 
Sam0ah said:
I am not a fan of the disrespect either, but when He joined Klutch sports the cracks in Kings loyalty started to form. Sac Fans are ride or die pretty much, but when you say you are bigger than the team...…
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It's understandable to be upset with Fox over his demands. In fact, my expectations from him has increased as I'm holding him to the same demands that he expects from the organization. If he wants the SuperMax, he needs to first show it on the floor.

However, I'm not ok with the trashing of Fox as if he is some role player. An All-Star caliber player in his prime that plays both ends of the floor is not chopped liver. On top of it, he's not afraid of big moments and has shown good success in the past. People proposing trading him for some role players that we can get in any draft is disrespectful and just bad asset management. Why are we devaluing our own assets? Is Fox worth less than Mikal Bridges? Why should we accept a bad return?
 
upinsmoke said:
Did i miss the part where we have to trade with Houston? Also THEY are getting the best player why would we concern ourselves with their roster construction? You keep shopping Fox around until you find the right one or he signs a team friendly deal if he can get a team to give him a super max via free agency good for him but it shouldn't be us.
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no you missed the part losing him for nothing would be catastrophic. If I can turn him into a starting PF and a back-up center I would be happy.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
They have Amen and Cam and they can try to flip FVV for something. I don't care what their roster looks like, they're the ones chasing after Fox.



Please, please don't try to put a Smith/Eason package on par with Giannis. Please. I'm begging you.



You've got the 2025 trade deadline for a trade, and the 2025 offseason for a trade or an extension, and the 2026 trade deadline for a trade, and pre-free-agency 2026 for an extension, and free agency in 2026 for a max deal and even failing all of that the near certainty of a sign-and-trade before you need to worry about Fox leaving for nothing. Don't doom spiral into imagining yourself canceling your tickets just because some of us think it's a really bad idea to sell him off at pennies on the dollar now.
Click to expand...

You may not care what their roster looks like but they do and it makes your trade proposal as unrealistic as a straight up Giannis trade.

the longer you wait the less valuable the package you receive. With the Lakers having potentially max money going into free agency waiting until next year significantly increases your chance he walks for nothing.

Getting a starting power forward plus a switchable big is hardly Pennie’s on the dollar. Perhaps you have missed how hard those kind of guys are to acquire in the past 5 years we have been searching for one. If you think it’s light then request more picks though I would rather have the 2027 Suns pick which is a likely lottery pick than 2-3 Rockets picks in the 20’s.
 
coolhandluke said:
It's understandable to be upset with Fox over his demands. In fact, my expectations from him has increased as I'm holding him to the same demands that he expects from the organization. If he wants the SuperMax, he needs to first show it on the floor.

However, I'm not ok with the trashing of Fox as if he is some role player. An All-Star caliber player in his prime that plays both ends of the floor is not chopped liver. On top of it, he's not afraid of big moments and has shown good success in the past. People proposing trading him for some role players that we can get in any draft is disrespectful and just bad asset management. Why are we devaluing our own assets? Is Fox worth less than Mikal Bridges? Why should we accept a bad return?
Click to expand...

is Fox worth less the Bridges? Yes he is because he is 6’3 and Bridges is 6’ 6” with a 7’ 1” wingspan and incredible lateral movement. Kings fans needs to post an economic class on scarcity.

Long wings are the scarcest and most valuable commodity in the NBA. Full Stop.

to say Fox made one all Star team and therefore he has the same value as top wings is ridiculous. This fantasy pervades this front office and fanbase. A 6’ 10” 7’ + wingspan and 8’ 10 + Standing reach forward, with good lateral movement, and shoots 36% from 3 is not some ****ing role player. Getting a two way player like that is very difficult which is why Monte has not done it in 5 years. Kings have nobody that fits that description. To say Smith is the bolded description might be the height of ignorance.

Getting a 6’ 3” two way guard that can score 20 plus points by contrast is much easier. You can sign them in Free Agency (Monk) or sign as an UDFA (Brunson).

It’s like trading a top quality Topaz for a Diamond
 
twslam07 said:
I’d really hope we push for Eason instead of Smith (especially if Thompson is not on the table).
  • Eason is much more impactful today compared to Smith (advanced impact stats show Eason is wayyy better too)
  • Eason is an elite defender today who can guard multiple positions at a very high level, switch 1-5, protect the rim, and rebound at a great rate.
  • I think Eason’s offensive potential may be higher than Smith’s as well. Eason seems much more comfortable handling and passing the rock and seems more competent attacking defenses with the ball in his hands. He doesn’t seem to be as good of a shooter as Smith, but he’s still decent and I could see him settling in between 35-37% consistently. I’d take that considering the other attributes he brings to the table.
  • Eason has terrific size/length at PF as well. 8’11.5” standing reach and 7’2” wingspan. He’s also very strong and is not as susceptible to being bullied down low by bigger PFs.
Losing Fox would suck but getting a 23 year old “near perfect” complement at PF next to Sabonis would be a good consolation prize especially considering how difficult it is to acquire a player of Eason’s archetype.
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Agreed. I think you get one of them for sure though, just my thinking of what HOU would offer us
 
sactowndog said:
is Fox worth less the Bridges? Yes he is because he is 6’3 and Bridges is 6’ 6” with a 7’ 1” wingspan and incredible lateral movement. Kings fans needs to post an economic class on scarcity.

Long wings are the scarcest and most valuable commodity in the NBA. Full Stop.

to say Fox made one all Star team and therefore he has the same value as top wings is ridiculous. This fantasy pervades this front office and fanbase. A 6’ 10” 7’ + wingspan and 8’ 10 + Standing reach forward, with good lateral movement, and shoots 36% from 3 is not some ****ing role player. Getting a two way player like that is very difficult which is why Monte has not done it in 5 years. Kings have nobody that fits that description. To say Smith is the bolded description might be the height of ignorance.

Getting a 6’ 3” two way guard that can score 20 plus points by contrast is much easier. You can sign them in Free Agency (Monk) or sign as an UDFA (Brunson).

It’s like trading a top quality Topaz for a Diamond
Click to expand...
Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Stop obsessing with numbers and start looking at players as a whole. Fox is an elite player that can be a #1 or #2 option who can make things happens on both ends of the floor in any situation. No one is throwing the ball to Mikal Bridges and asking him to make a play when it is time to win. That's a role player -- a good complementary piece. No opposing coach is game planning to stop him. You can get similar players like DFS, PJ Washington Jr etc. on the trade market or sign them in FA for reasonable contracts. Also, I think their respective contract value is a good lesson in economics.
 
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sactowndog said:
Eason shoots 31.2% from 3 and 74.1% from the line. He can’t shoot the 3. The Monk Sabonis pick and roll is going to see Eason’s defender standing in the lane.

compare it to Smith who shoots this year 35.4% from 3 and 85.7% from the line. Not to mention Smith is close to Eason on Defense. The player we want is Smith not Eason. The near perfect complement to Sabonis is Smith not Eason.
Click to expand...

So your only data point that has you picking Smith over Eason is a 25 game shooting sample size from Eason? Let's expand this and look at their careers...

Career 3P%
Eason = 33.8% (3.8 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 33.8% (5.7 3PA per 36 min)

Career C&S 3P%
Eason =35.2% (3.6 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 34.5% (4.7 3PA per 36 min)

Now I'm not saying Eason is a better shooter than Smith, but you're acting like Eason is a non-shooter by saying that "The Monk Sabonis pick and roll is going to see Eason’s defender standing in the lane" which is simply untrue. If we're finding success with the Monk & Sabonis pick & roll with shooters like Fox & DeRozan on the floor, I don't see why having a guy like Eason on the floor all of a sudden craters the effectiveness of that playtype.

As for your point that "Smith is close to Eason on defense," I completely disagree. Watch these guys play. It's a pretty drastic difference, but until then, here is how their advanced impact stats shake out (including their defense)...

OVERALL
VPM: Eason = 54th / Smith = 226th
EPM: Eason = 88th / Smith = 258th
LEBRON: Eason = 33rd / Smith = 211th
DARKO: Eason = 111th / Smith = 222nd
RAPM (2Y): Eason = 66th / Smith = 643rd

OFFENSE
O-VPM: Eason = 146th / Smith = 198th
O-EPM: Eason = 218th / Smith = 246th
O-LEBRON: Eason = 125th / Smith = 367th
O-DARKO: Eason = 216th / Smith = 208th
O-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 220th / Smith = 607th

DEFENSE
D-VPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 260th
D-EPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 264th
D-LEBRON: Eason = 14th / Smith = 88th
D-DARKO: Eason = 60th / Smith = 235th
D-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 29th / Smith = 620nd

And if I average those ranks across the 5 metrics, it comes out too…

Overall: Eason = 70th / Smith = 312th
Offense: Eason = 185th / Smith = 325th
Defense: Eason = 29th / Smith = 293rd


He's flat out wayyyy better than him defensively. In fact, he’s one of the most impactful defenders in the league. He is even more impactful than Smith offensively (despite Smith being a better shooter).

It would be criminal to consciously choose Smith over Eason.
 
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coolhandluke said:
Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Stop obsessing with numbers and start looking at players as a whole. Fox is an elite player that can be a #1 or #2 option who can make things happens on both ends of the floor in any situation. No one is throwing the ball to Mikal Bridges and asking him to make a play when it is time to win. That's a role player -- a good complementary piece. No opposing coach is game planning to stop him. You can get similar players like DFS, PJ Washington Jr etc. on the trade market or sign them in FA for reasonable contracts. Also, I think their respective contract value is a good lesson in economics.
Click to expand...

first off numbers are a reflection of the player.

Second Fox is not close to an elite defender. He has been more prone to make plays that lose games on defense.

last DFS is 6’ 7” not 6’ 10”. He has a 113 defensive rating not a 105 and he is 31. He is not comparable to Smith in the least.

and yes Fox can get a bucket. We also have Deebo and Monk that can also do that.
 
twslam07 said:
So your only data point that has you picking Smith over Eason is a 25 game shooting sample size from Eason? Let's expand this and look at their careers...

Career 3P%
Eason = 33.8% (3.8 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 33.8% (5.7 3PA per 36 min)

Career C&S 3P%
Eason =35.2% (3.6 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 34.5% (4.7 3PA per 36 min)

Now I'm not saying Eason is a better shooter than Smith, but you're acting like Eason is a non-shooter by saying that "The Monk Sabonis pick and roll is going to see Eason’s defender standing in the lane" which is simply untrue. If we're finding success with the Monk & Sabonis pick & roll with shooters like Fox & DeRozan on the floor, I don't see why having a guy like Eason on the floor all of a sudden craters the effectiveness of that playtype.

As for your point that "Smith is close to Eason on defense," I completely disagree. Watch these guys play. It's a pretty drastic difference, but until then, here is how their advanced impact stats shake out (including their defense)...

OVERALL
VPM: Eason = 54th / Smith = 226th
EPM: Eason = 88th / Smith = 258th
LEBRON: Eason = 33rd / Smith = 211th
DARKO: Eason = 111th / Smith = 222nd
RAPM (2Y): Eason = 66th / Smith = 643rd

OFFENSE
O-VPM: Eason = 146th / Smith = 198th
O-EPM: Eason = 218th / Smith = 246th
O-LEBRON: Eason = 125th / Smith = 367th
O-DARKO: Eason = 216th / Smith = 208th
O-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 220th / Smith = 607th

DEFENSE
D-VPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 260th
D-EPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 264th
D-LEBRON: Eason = 14th / Smith = 88th
D-DARKO: Eason = 60th / Smith = 235th
D-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 29th / Smith = 620nd

And if I average those ranks across the 5 metrics, it comes out too…

Overall: Eason = 70th / Smith = 312th
Offense: Eason = 185th / Smith = 325th
Defense: Eason = 29th / Smith = 293rd


He's flat out wayyyy better than him defensively. In fact, he’s one of the most impactful defenders in the league. He is even more impactful than Smith offensively (despite Smith being a better shooter).

It would be criminal to consciously choose Smith over Eason.
Click to expand...

so I don’t have your other advanced stats and I appreciate you sharing them. Curious what years are you using as Smith had a rough rookie year but has been growing. Eason was 21 his rookie year and Smith was 19. Eason was just more physically and mentally mature so comparing career vs career might be misleading. People might want to think back to Fox’s rookie year at 19. BTW I loved Eason and wanted Monte to trade up for him so I’m not knocking Eason.

when you look at shooting Smith takes twice the volume of 3’s that Eason takes and Eason takes twice the number of shots around the basket which for us is already crowded. Also when you compare FT percentage it would indicate Smith will improve as a shooter.

so for us I see Smith as the better fit. Now if we did a trade with Houston they might also prefer to send Eason. I’m not opposed to Eason over Smith and your numbers clearly support it.

What I do think is completely unrealistic is they would send Smith and Eason in a trade. It is a problem both in terms of roster and financially modeling a trade. I do see Monte asking for it but then Monte has made 1 trade of positive value in his career.
 
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sactowndog said:
so I don’t have your other advanced stats and I appreciate you sharing them. Curious what years are you using as Smith had a rough rookie year but has been growing. Eason was 21 his rookie year and Smith was 19. Eason was just more physically and mentally mature so comparing career vs career might be misleading. BTW I loved Eason and wanted Monte to trade up for him so I’m not knocking Eason.

when you look at shooting Smith takes twice the volume of 3’s that Eason takes and Eason takes twice the number of shots around the basket which for us is already crowded. Also when you compare FT percentage it would indicate Smith will improve as a shooter.

so for us I see Smith as the better fit. Now if we did a trade with Houston they might also prefer to send Eason. I’m not opposed to Eason over Smith and your numbers clearly support it.

What I do think is completely unrealistic is they would send Smith and Eason in a trade. It is a problem both in terms of roster and financially modeling a trade. I do see Monte asking for it but then Monte has made 1 trade of positive value in his career.
Click to expand...

At least you're finally taking a stand for something rather just waffling around and bashing monte. I can appreciate that.
 
sactowndog said:
is Fox worth less the Bridges? Yes he is because he is 6’3 and Bridges is 6’ 6” with a 7’ 1” wingspan and incredible lateral movement. Kings fans needs to post an economic class on scarcity.

Long wings are the scarcest and most valuable commodity in the NBA. Full Stop.

to say Fox made one all Star team and therefore he has the same value as top wings is ridiculous. This fantasy pervades this front office and fanbase. A 6’ 10” 7’ + wingspan and 8’ 10 + Standing reach forward, with good lateral movement, and shoots 36% from 3 is not some ****ing role player. Getting a two way player like that is very difficult which is why Monte has not done it in 5 years. Kings have nobody that fits that description. To say Smith is the bolded description might be the height of ignorance.

Getting a 6’ 3” two way guard that can score 20 plus points by contrast is much easier. You can sign them in Free Agency (Monk) or sign as an UDFA (Brunson).

It’s like trading a top quality Topaz for a Diamond
Click to expand...

There's not a single team who would rate Mikal Bridges over de'aaron Fox. And anyone who would, would not be long for an NBA job.
 
The_Jamal said:
There's not a single team who would rate Mikal Bridges over de'aaron Fox. And anyone who would, would not be long for an NBA job.
Click to expand...

depends on what year. And btw I’m not exactly underrating Fox.
  • A 21 year old 6’ 10” wing who is still maturing
  • a probable lottery pick in the Suns pick
  • A back up center switchable 2-5 and can block shots
Is hardly a bad return.
 
The_Jamal said:
At least you're finally taking a stand for something rather just waffling around and bashing monte. I can appreciate that.
Click to expand...

Well when Monte fails to make a trade and Fox walks for nothing or much less than this deal in a shotgun trade my bashing of Monte will reach a new level.

he already completely F’d up the Harrison Barnes asset by not trading him to Boston, I fully expect him to do the same with Fox.
 
sactowndog said:
Well when Monte fails to make a trade and Fox walks for nothing or much less than this deal in a shotgun trade my bashing of Monte will reach a new level.

he already completely F’d up the Harrison Barnes asset by not trading him to Boston, I fully expect him to do the same with Fox.
Click to expand...

This is some really special confirmation bias. Like, truly next level.

First you make up a failed Fox trade to get preemptively angry at McNair about. Then you bring up Boston's rumored interest in Barnes last season as if there was an actual deal on the table to be made that would have been better than the deal that eventually landed the Kings DDR. You sure do like swinging at ghosts, friend. It's all just such bad faith rhetorical nonsense. I almost feel the need to applaud you for your commitment to the bit. Monte must live 100% rent free in your brain.
 
t
Padrino said:
This is some really special confirmation bias. Like, truly next level.

First you make up a failed Fox trade to get preemptively angry at McNair about. Then you bring up Boston's rumored interest in Barnes last season as if there was an actual deal on the table to be made that would have been better than the deal that eventually landed the Kings DDR. You sure do like swinging at ghosts, friend. It's all just such bad faith rhetorical nonsense. I almost feel the need to applaud you for your commitment to the bit. Monte must live 100% rent free in your brain.
Click to expand...

Again without going into details publically I know for a fact there was an actual deal on the table of Aaron Nesmith and a 1st for Barnes and it was not last season it was the season ending in the Davion draft and we were one loss away from being able to draft Wagner versus Mitchell.

those my friend are the facts
 
Capt. Factorial said:
There have been a lot of words bandied back and forth, but this would appear to be the heart of the disagreement. Since we have such a vast discrepancy in our assessment of Fox's value, there's not really any point in arguing about further what Fox is worth in trade.
Click to expand...

true and at the end of the day what we think doesn’t matter.

Can we all agree if Fox walks for nothing or we end up with a shotgun trade for chips and a trade exception then Monte F’d up?

And how many more years are you willing to let our whole at wing go unfilled?
 
sactowndog said:
true and at the end of the day what we think doesn’t matter.

Can we all agree if Fox walks for nothing or we end up with a shotgun trade for chips and a trade exception then Monte F’d up?

And how many more years are you willing to let our whole at wing go unfilled?
Click to expand...
"What we think doesn't matter."
...
"What do you think about this situation?"

Lol man I give you mad props for creating genuine discourse on this forum. Since what we think doesn't matter, I think you should apply for the next open GM position that becomes available. You have all the answers, you'd crush it.
 
sactowndog said:
t


Again without going into details publically I know for a fact there was an actual deal on the table of Aaron Nesmith and a 1st for Barnes and it was not last season it was the season ending in the Davion draft and we were one loss away from being able to draft Wagner versus Mitchell.

those my friend are the facts
Click to expand...

You're assuming the same set of ping pong balls would have been chosen, if we had greater odds that we did. Seems dubious, at best.

We've also talked about your "trust me bro, I have an NBA friend" stance in the past. That's just me having to believe you or that your friend had accurate information. That's not "fact"
 
sactowndog said:
true and at the end of the day what we think doesn’t matter.

Can we all agree if Fox walks for nothing or we end up with a shotgun trade for chips and a trade exception then Monte F’d up?

And how many more years are you willing to let our whole at wing go unfilled?
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, your package that you want is what I'd consider a bag of chips for Fox.

And of course, if Fox walks and we get nothing, or we get a disaster, boogie cousins esq return for him, then monte will have failed. I also don't think there's any desperation to trade a top 15-20 player just entering his prime, that's been incredibly loyal to Sacramento and is one of the best players in franchise history. You're acting like we are on a time crunch here where if we did open up Fox in trade talks, we'd have 10 offers on Montes desk the next morning
 
The_Jamal said:
You're assuming the same set of ping pong balls would have been chosen, if we had greater odds that we did. Seems dubious, at best.

We've also talked about your "trust me bro, I have an NBA friend" stance in the past. That's just me having to believe you or that your friend had accurate information. That's not "fact"
Click to expand...

yes I am assuming Orlando and us are not tied so we have 8 and they have 9. Wagner went 8 and Davion went 9.

yes it is a fact. I’m not going to disclose why it is a fact but it is.
 
The_Jamal said:
Interestingly enough, your package that you want is what I'd consider a bag of chips for Fox.

And of course, if Fox walks and we get nothing, or we get a disaster, boogie cousins esq return for him, then monte will have failed. I also don't think there's any desperation to trade a top 15-20 player just entering his prime, that's been incredibly loyal to Sacramento and is one of the best players in franchise history. You're acting like we are on a time crunch here where if we did open up Fox in trade talks, we'd have 10 offers on Montes desk the next morning
Click to expand...

I happen to like Smith and that PHX 27 pick so I don’t consider a 21 year old 6’ 10” kid and a likely lottery pick a bag of chips. Some like Eason better and I’m fine with making that swap but I would certainly take Smith.

we will know who is correct in 3-4 years.

and lastly we need an offer with wings since you and Monte keep stacking 6’ 3” guards on this roster.
 
sactowndog said:
t


Again without going into details publically I know for a fact there was an actual deal on the table of Aaron Nesmith and a 1st for Barnes and it was not last season it was the season ending in the Davion draft and we were one loss away from being able to draft Wagner versus Mitchell.

those my friend are the facts
Click to expand...
If you can't go into the details publicly, then they aren't facts (or at the very least, can't be taken by anyone with a modicum of sense as facts). Forgive me for not taking you at your word.
 
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