De’Aaron “Austin Reaves Sr.” Fox
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Nobody wants to sell him for pennies we just know what klutch means and they already did there “meeting”. Obviously we all want fox to stay but if we get bounced in the play in it’s probably not happening. And nobody is trading for Fox at next years deadline that’s pure fantasy if he wants out he’s asking out this summer and will get traded this summer. There’s no let’s see how we are by next deadline the playbook has already been played before
It's understandable to be upset with Fox over his demands. In fact, my expectations from him has increased as I'm holding him to the same demands that he expects from the organization. If he wants the SuperMax, he needs to first show it on the floor.
However, I'm not ok with the trashing of Fox as if he is some role player. An All-Star caliber player in his prime that plays both ends of the floor is not chopped liver. On top of it, he's not afraid of big moments and has shown good success in the past. People proposing trading him for some role players that we can get in any draft is disrespectful and just bad asset management. Why are we devaluing our own assets? Is Fox worth less than Mikal Bridges? Why should we accept a bad return?
However, I'm not ok with the trashing of Fox as if he is some role player. An All-Star caliber player in his prime that plays both ends of the floor is not chopped liver. On top of it, he's not afraid of big moments and has shown good success in the past. People proposing trading him for some role players that we can get in any draft is disrespectful and just bad asset management. Why are we devaluing our own assets? Is Fox worth less than Mikal Bridges? Why should we accept a bad return?
You may not care what their roster looks like but they do and it makes your trade proposal as unrealistic as a straight up Giannis trade.
the longer you wait the less valuable the package you receive. With the Lakers having potentially max money going into free agency waiting until next year significantly increases your chance he walks for nothing.
Getting a starting power forward plus a switchable big is hardly Pennie’s on the dollar. Perhaps you have missed how hard those kind of guys are to acquire in the past 5 years we have been searching for one. If you think it’s light then request more picks though I would rather have the 2027 Suns pick which is a likely lottery pick than 2-3 Rockets picks in the 20’s.
the longer you wait the less valuable the package you receive. With the Lakers having potentially max money going into free agency waiting until next year significantly increases your chance he walks for nothing.
Getting a starting power forward plus a switchable big is hardly Pennie’s on the dollar. Perhaps you have missed how hard those kind of guys are to acquire in the past 5 years we have been searching for one. If you think it’s light then request more picks though I would rather have the 2027 Suns pick which is a likely lottery pick than 2-3 Rockets picks in the 20’s.
is Fox worth less the Bridges? Yes he is because he is 6’3 and Bridges is 6’ 6” with a 7’ 1” wingspan and incredible lateral movement. Kings fans needs to post an economic class on scarcity.
Long wings are the scarcest and most valuable commodity in the NBA. Full Stop.
to say Fox made one all Star team and therefore he has the same value as top wings is ridiculous. This fantasy pervades this front office and fanbase. A 6’ 10” 7’ + wingspan and 8’ 10 + Standing reach forward, with good lateral movement, and shoots 36% from 3 is not some ****ing role player. Getting a two way player like that is very difficult which is why Monte has not done it in 5 years. Kings have nobody that fits that description. To say Smith is the bolded description might be the height of ignorance.
Getting a 6’ 3” two way guard that can score 20 plus points by contrast is much easier. You can sign them in Free Agency (Monk) or sign as an UDFA (Brunson).
It’s like trading a top quality Topaz for a Diamond
Long wings are the scarcest and most valuable commodity in the NBA. Full Stop.
to say Fox made one all Star team and therefore he has the same value as top wings is ridiculous. This fantasy pervades this front office and fanbase. A 6’ 10” 7’ + wingspan and 8’ 10 + Standing reach forward, with good lateral movement, and shoots 36% from 3 is not some ****ing role player. Getting a two way player like that is very difficult which is why Monte has not done it in 5 years. Kings have nobody that fits that description. To say Smith is the bolded description might be the height of ignorance.
Getting a 6’ 3” two way guard that can score 20 plus points by contrast is much easier. You can sign them in Free Agency (Monk) or sign as an UDFA (Brunson).
It’s like trading a top quality Topaz for a Diamond
Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Stop obsessing with numbers and start looking at players as a whole. Fox is an elite player that can be a #1 or #2 option who can make things happens on both ends of the floor in any situation. No one is throwing the ball to Mikal Bridges and asking him to make a play when it is time to win. That's a role player -- a good complementary piece. No opposing coach is game planning to stop him. You can get similar players like DFS, PJ Washington Jr etc. on the trade market or sign them in FA for reasonable contracts. Also, I think their respective contract value is a good lesson in economics.
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So your only data point that has you picking Smith over Eason is a 25 game shooting sample size from Eason? Let's expand this and look at their careers...
Career 3P%
Eason = 33.8% (3.8 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 33.8% (5.7 3PA per 36 min)
Career C&S 3P%
Eason =35.2% (3.6 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 34.5% (4.7 3PA per 36 min)
Now I'm not saying Eason is a better shooter than Smith, but you're acting like Eason is a non-shooter by saying that "The Monk Sabonis pick and roll is going to see Eason’s defender standing in the lane" which is simply untrue. If we're finding success with the Monk & Sabonis pick & roll with shooters like Fox & DeRozan on the floor, I don't see why having a guy like Eason on the floor all of a sudden craters the effectiveness of that playtype.
As for your point that "Smith is close to Eason on defense," I completely disagree. Watch these guys play. It's a pretty drastic difference, but until then, here is how their advanced impact stats shake out (including their defense)...
OVERALL
VPM: Eason = 54th / Smith = 226th
EPM: Eason = 88th / Smith = 258th
LEBRON: Eason = 33rd / Smith = 211th
DARKO: Eason = 111th / Smith = 222nd
RAPM (2Y): Eason = 66th / Smith = 643rd
OFFENSE
O-VPM: Eason = 146th / Smith = 198th
O-EPM: Eason = 218th / Smith = 246th
O-LEBRON: Eason = 125th / Smith = 367th
O-DARKO: Eason = 216th / Smith = 208th
O-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 220th / Smith = 607th
DEFENSE
D-VPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 260th
D-EPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 264th
D-LEBRON: Eason = 14th / Smith = 88th
D-DARKO: Eason = 60th / Smith = 235th
D-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 29th / Smith = 620nd
And if I average those ranks across the 5 metrics, it comes out too…
Overall: Eason = 70th / Smith = 312th
Offense: Eason = 185th / Smith = 325th
Defense: Eason = 29th / Smith = 293rd
He's flat out wayyyy better than him defensively. In fact, he’s one of the most impactful defenders in the league. He is even more impactful than Smith offensively (despite Smith being a better shooter).
It would be criminal to consciously choose Smith over Eason.
Career 3P%
Eason = 33.8% (3.8 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 33.8% (5.7 3PA per 36 min)
Career C&S 3P%
Eason =35.2% (3.6 3PA per 36 min)
Smith = 34.5% (4.7 3PA per 36 min)
Now I'm not saying Eason is a better shooter than Smith, but you're acting like Eason is a non-shooter by saying that "The Monk Sabonis pick and roll is going to see Eason’s defender standing in the lane" which is simply untrue. If we're finding success with the Monk & Sabonis pick & roll with shooters like Fox & DeRozan on the floor, I don't see why having a guy like Eason on the floor all of a sudden craters the effectiveness of that playtype.
As for your point that "Smith is close to Eason on defense," I completely disagree. Watch these guys play. It's a pretty drastic difference, but until then, here is how their advanced impact stats shake out (including their defense)...
OVERALL
VPM: Eason = 54th / Smith = 226th
EPM: Eason = 88th / Smith = 258th
LEBRON: Eason = 33rd / Smith = 211th
DARKO: Eason = 111th / Smith = 222nd
RAPM (2Y): Eason = 66th / Smith = 643rd
OFFENSE
O-VPM: Eason = 146th / Smith = 198th
O-EPM: Eason = 218th / Smith = 246th
O-LEBRON: Eason = 125th / Smith = 367th
O-DARKO: Eason = 216th / Smith = 208th
O-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 220th / Smith = 607th
DEFENSE
D-VPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 260th
D-EPM: Eason = 21st / Smith = 264th
D-LEBRON: Eason = 14th / Smith = 88th
D-DARKO: Eason = 60th / Smith = 235th
D-RAPM (2Y): Eason = 29th / Smith = 620nd
And if I average those ranks across the 5 metrics, it comes out too…
Overall: Eason = 70th / Smith = 312th
Offense: Eason = 185th / Smith = 325th
Defense: Eason = 29th / Smith = 293rd
He's flat out wayyyy better than him defensively. In fact, he’s one of the most impactful defenders in the league. He is even more impactful than Smith offensively (despite Smith being a better shooter).
It would be criminal to consciously choose Smith over Eason.
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first off numbers are a reflection of the player.
Second Fox is not close to an elite defender. He has been more prone to make plays that lose games on defense.
last DFS is 6’ 7” not 6’ 10”. He has a 113 defensive rating not a 105 and he is 31. He is not comparable to Smith in the least.
and yes Fox can get a bucket. We also have Deebo and Monk that can also do that.
Second Fox is not close to an elite defender. He has been more prone to make plays that lose games on defense.
last DFS is 6’ 7” not 6’ 10”. He has a 113 defensive rating not a 105 and he is 31. He is not comparable to Smith in the least.
and yes Fox can get a bucket. We also have Deebo and Monk that can also do that.
so I don’t have your other advanced stats and I appreciate you sharing them. Curious what years are you using as Smith had a rough rookie year but has been growing. Eason was 21 his rookie year and Smith was 19. Eason was just more physically and mentally mature so comparing career vs career might be misleading. People might want to think back to Fox’s rookie year at 19. BTW I loved Eason and wanted Monte to trade up for him so I’m not knocking Eason.
when you look at shooting Smith takes twice the volume of 3’s that Eason takes and Eason takes twice the number of shots around the basket which for us is already crowded. Also when you compare FT percentage it would indicate Smith will improve as a shooter.
so for us I see Smith as the better fit. Now if we did a trade with Houston they might also prefer to send Eason. I’m not opposed to Eason over Smith and your numbers clearly support it.
What I do think is completely unrealistic is they would send Smith and Eason in a trade. It is a problem both in terms of roster and financially modeling a trade. I do see Monte asking for it but then Monte has made 1 trade of positive value in his career.
when you look at shooting Smith takes twice the volume of 3’s that Eason takes and Eason takes twice the number of shots around the basket which for us is already crowded. Also when you compare FT percentage it would indicate Smith will improve as a shooter.
so for us I see Smith as the better fit. Now if we did a trade with Houston they might also prefer to send Eason. I’m not opposed to Eason over Smith and your numbers clearly support it.
What I do think is completely unrealistic is they would send Smith and Eason in a trade. It is a problem both in terms of roster and financially modeling a trade. I do see Monte asking for it but then Monte has made 1 trade of positive value in his career.
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This is some really special confirmation bias. Like, truly next level.
First you make up a failed Fox trade to get preemptively angry at McNair about. Then you bring up Boston's rumored interest in Barnes last season as if there was an actual deal on the table to be made that would have been better than the deal that eventually landed the Kings DDR. You sure do like swinging at ghosts, friend. It's all just such bad faith rhetorical nonsense. I almost feel the need to applaud you for your commitment to the bit. Monte must live 100% rent free in your brain.
First you make up a failed Fox trade to get preemptively angry at McNair about. Then you bring up Boston's rumored interest in Barnes last season as if there was an actual deal on the table to be made that would have been better than the deal that eventually landed the Kings DDR. You sure do like swinging at ghosts, friend. It's all just such bad faith rhetorical nonsense. I almost feel the need to applaud you for your commitment to the bit. Monte must live 100% rent free in your brain.
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Again without going into details publically I know for a fact there was an actual deal on the table of Aaron Nesmith and a 1st for Barnes and it was not last season it was the season ending in the Davion draft and we were one loss away from being able to draft Wagner versus Mitchell.
those my friend are the facts
Again without going into details publically I know for a fact there was an actual deal on the table of Aaron Nesmith and a 1st for Barnes and it was not last season it was the season ending in the Davion draft and we were one loss away from being able to draft Wagner versus Mitchell.
those my friend are the facts
"What we think doesn't matter."
...
"What do you think about this situation?"
Lol man I give you mad props for creating genuine discourse on this forum. Since what we think doesn't matter, I think you should apply for the next open GM position that becomes available. You have all the answers, you'd crush it.
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"What do you think about this situation?"
Lol man I give you mad props for creating genuine discourse on this forum. Since what we think doesn't matter, I think you should apply for the next open GM position that becomes available. You have all the answers, you'd crush it.
You're assuming the same set of ping pong balls would have been chosen, if we had greater odds that we did. Seems dubious, at best.
We've also talked about your "trust me bro, I have an NBA friend" stance in the past. That's just me having to believe you or that your friend had accurate information. That's not "fact"
We've also talked about your "trust me bro, I have an NBA friend" stance in the past. That's just me having to believe you or that your friend had accurate information. That's not "fact"
Interestingly enough, your package that you want is what I'd consider a bag of chips for Fox.
And of course, if Fox walks and we get nothing, or we get a disaster, boogie cousins esq return for him, then monte will have failed. I also don't think there's any desperation to trade a top 15-20 player just entering his prime, that's been incredibly loyal to Sacramento and is one of the best players in franchise history. You're acting like we are on a time crunch here where if we did open up Fox in trade talks, we'd have 10 offers on Montes desk the next morning
And of course, if Fox walks and we get nothing, or we get a disaster, boogie cousins esq return for him, then monte will have failed. I also don't think there's any desperation to trade a top 15-20 player just entering his prime, that's been incredibly loyal to Sacramento and is one of the best players in franchise history. You're acting like we are on a time crunch here where if we did open up Fox in trade talks, we'd have 10 offers on Montes desk the next morning
I happen to like Smith and that PHX 27 pick so I don’t consider a 21 year old 6’ 10” kid and a likely lottery pick a bag of chips. Some like Eason better and I’m fine with making that swap but I would certainly take Smith.
we will know who is correct in 3-4 years.
and lastly we need an offer with wings since you and Monte keep stacking 6’ 3” guards on this roster.
we will know who is correct in 3-4 years.
and lastly we need an offer with wings since you and Monte keep stacking 6’ 3” guards on this roster.
