Dave Joerger...rumors and speculation

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G

Gilles

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#241
#241
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Nice to know that Jason Jones is on top of the story, as always.
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It takes time to clime all the way on top. He took his.

Čarolija said:
3 years is very solid. Gives a fair bit of stability and flexibility for both parties. Given the coaching salaries we have been paying in the last 2 seasons, we don't want to go for too long a deal and Joerger would probably want to renegotiate after that time and not be stuck in what might be peanuts in terms of coaching contracts in 3 years time.

Just sign him up and let's workout the rest at a later date. Just don't let him get away SVG style!
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As for 3 years instead of longer term it might be combination of confidence and rising revenue speaking: you don't go from $2 million to $7 million, that Thibs got, in one step, but in 3 years, when it will be pretty normal salary, he will easily get it, if results follow, but so far results appeared at his every stop.
Of course, it might be minority owners pressing to stop giving out 5-year contracts.
 
R

randymoss1881

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#242
#242
LA King Fan II said:
Hmm. Don't suppose Joerger could get Mike Conley to sign?
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Honestly I think we'd be front runners outside of Memphis to get him. If he left Memphis... NY, Orlando, Milwaukee were teams rumored for him. None of those have DMC/Gay and his former coach. Let's hope he sees how old ZBo and Gosal cause DMC/Gay/ WCS/Conley would be a top 4-6 seed.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#243
#243
randymoss1881 said:
Honestly I think we'd be front runners outside of Memphis to get him. If he left Memphis... NY, Orlando, Milwaukee were teams rumored for him. None of those have DMC/Gay and his former coach. Let's hope he sees how old ZBo and Gosal cause DMC/Gay/ WCS/Conley would be a top 4-6 seed.
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Except that reports suggest Conley and Joerger don't have a great relationship. It's far from toxic but they are not best buddies either.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#245
#245
randymoss1881 said:
Honestly I think we'd be front runners outside of Memphis to get him. If he left Memphis... NY, Orlando, Milwaukee were teams rumored for him. None of those have DMC/Gay and his former coach. Let's hope he sees how old ZBo and Gosal cause DMC/Gay/ WCS/Conley would be a top 4-6 seed.
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Teams interested in Conley: Mavericks, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nets, Pacers, Bucks, Knicks, Magic, and Sixers...with potential teams in Nuggets, Spurs, and Celtics.

Lots of teams like him. It'll be hard to convince him to come here, and at this point, I don't even think I'd want to give him the max. The only real advantage he has over DC is defense.. is his defense going to be worth $15million more than Collison next year? I don't know....he's a not a great shooter. He's not a great scorer. He's not a great passer. He's not a great facilitator. The only above average thing he does is defend. DC does almost everything on offense better than him.

Also there are a few rumors about Joerger and Conley not getting along. Those could be absolutely false though.

I don't think we'd be front runners at all. Why play for a small dysfunctional Sacramento market, when he can get paid max by the Jazz? They're a small market, but they're not dysfunctional..and I bet he'd rather play next to Hayward/Favors/Gobert too vs. Cousins and Gay.
 
Kingsgurl

Kingsgurl

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#246
#246
AusKing said:
Bryant West ‎@BSWest5
This is a damn rosey piece on Joerger/the Kings. Not used to this level of optimism https://t.co/2zrUW6FMTR
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From the article
The Kings job, as toxic as it seems, is a better gig for a coach like Joerger because the Grizzlies' window of playoff contention is nearing closure and Sacramento, for all its overt dysfunction, could have a bright future.
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Why, that's almost a compliment!

The Kings front office wants the team to play a progressive style, and Joerger can provide that —€” contrary to popular belief. He'd be able to redefine himself. More importantly, the Kings have the personnel to play that style.
Would Joerger be able to get along with DeMarcus Cousins? It's easy to see how the two could click —€” they're emotional, misunderstood stars of their professions who could see a lot of themselves in each other —€” but the All-Star big man is inscrutable.
If Joerger can get Cousins to work with him, the Kings have a superstar custom built to dominate in the new paradigm of the NBA and assets (plenty of draft picks and a new arena) capable of surrounding that superstar with worthy, scheme-fitting talent.

The Kings had the talent to be a playoff team this season. If Joerger has shown one thing in his three years in charge in Memphis, it's that he's capable of squeezing every win possible out of a team's talent.

Meanwhile, Memphis is probably going to hire the big-man loving Frank Vogel and ride grit-n-grind until the wheels come off, pretending as if the NBA's pace-and-space revolution is merely a fad.
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If we can pull this off (and it appears Vlade has been scheming this for awhile) as other teams inexplicably fire good coaches and muck about, it appears we may even be able to shed that perpetual dysfunction label.

I do have to wonder about the fact that this has had so much publicity. Vlade has been pretty open about who we are interviewing, almost overly so, but the ink wasn't even dry on Joerger's pink slip before there were Woj bombs not just linking us to him, but making it seem like it was immanent, complete with contract numbers. Am I just twitchy about leaks? With this amount of build up, if he goes somewhere else, it looks like we whiffed, not that, with our vast and expansive coaching search, we decided he wasn't the right fit (I think he IS, but having that option open saves face if needed)
It's that Kings Fan PTSD kicking in, isn't it?
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#253
#253
VF21 said:
I couldn't possibly care less about Mike Conley. At this point, a decent coach trumps anything else.
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I agree but a disastrous off season with a good coach we are still at square one. If we can get Dave and nail 1-2 free agents that actually help us than things get really interesting.
 
PBNJ85

PBNJ85

G-League
#257
#257
Čarolija said:
Styles are cyclical and are directly correlated to the type of player available at the time.

Teams trying to emulate what GSW are doing will fail miserably because those teams do not have Curry, Thompson and Green to build around. The trend to more perimete oriented basketball is simply because there are not enough dominant low post players in the league and there is an overflow of chucking guards so the trend has moved in that direction.

Are you saying that is by some miracle you could inject in prime SHAQ, olajuwon, Ewing, Mouring, Robinson, Duncan etc... into the current NBA that the trent would still be the same as it currently is?!

No chance in hell. It would be returning to low post, smash mouth basketball. I actually like the fact that Memphis has bucked the trend and are playing the style of basketball that suits their roster. You play to your player's strengths and not to a trend. As soon as another team other than GSW wins the championship, all of a sudden the trend will be very different and teams will try and copy those teams. It wasn't that long ago that the "big 3" teams were the tredny things to do. Now it's all about the Warriors. If SA wins this year's championship it will be about SA. There are multiple ways to get there. Smart coach coaches to his roster's strengths. There is no point turning DMC into a perimeter, running big when he is unguardable force down low. He needs to develop that low post game more but let's not fotget that there were games this season where DMC single handedly fouled out the other teams entire frontline when he was camping down on the block.
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I'm a 90s basketball fan. I agree with your though out post
The important part is this. The new NASCAR NBA will push their product to the younger ticket buyers who have no patience for the 90s style which is far superior but in an age when it has to be raining threes or breakaway dunks or you lose them back to their phones

I already know a winning product like SAS will sell out. They're winners. A lot of the winning teams kno w they have no real shot and really would just like to sell more seats.I don't agree with this philosophy only offered it up as possible reason so many good coaches are being dumped. Please don't pick this apart. We are muy simpatico. And I type slow.
 
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KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#258
#258
206Fan said:
Teams interested in Conley: Mavericks, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nets, Pacers, Bucks, Knicks, Magic, and Sixers...with potential teams in Nuggets, Spurs, and Celtics.

Lots of teams like him. It'll be hard to convince him to come here, and at this point, I don't even think I'd want to give him the max. The only real advantage he has over DC is defense.. is his defense going to be worth $15million more than Collison next year? I don't know....he's a not a great shooter. He's not a great scorer. He's not a great passer. He's not a great facilitator. The only above average thing he does is defend. DC does almost everything on offense better than him.

Also there are a few rumors about Joerger and Conley not getting along. Those could be absolutely false though.

I don't think we'd be front runners at all. Why play for a small dysfunctional Sacramento market, when he can get paid max by the Jazz? They're a small market, but they're not dysfunctional..and I bet he'd rather play next to Hayward/Favors/Gobert too vs. Cousins and Gay.
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I don't know about the stats, but Conley looks like the better and more versatile player to me, when comparing his game to DC's.
Conley's jumpshot release is way quicker, his vision and playmaking out of the pick&roll is superior and he has a vastly superior in between game with all kind of flip shots and floaters with either hand.
On the defensive end Conley and DC share the same strengths and weaknesses, but I think Conley has the upper hand when it comes to reading plays and general awareness, but this can also be a coaching thing.

To me Conley is the better player. Now how much better is the question, when it comes to contract negotiations. And you have to keep his injury and the fact that his game relies on his speed in mind.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

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#259
#259
PBNJ85 said:
I'm a 90s basketball fan. I agree with your though out post
The important part is this. The new NASCAR NBA will push their product to the younger ticket buyers who have no patience for the 90s style which is far superior but in an age when it has to be raining threes or breakaway dunks or you lose them back to their phones

I already know a winning product like SAS will sell out. They're winners. A lot of the winning teams kno w they have no real shot and really would just like to sell more seats. Please don't pick this apart. We are my simptico. And I type slow.
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I know this is offtopic, but i can't help myself:
Why do you think 90's basketball is superior?
Is it superior from an entertainment standpoint or in general?
Nobody knows how big mans of the past would do in todays NBA. It's more or less pure speculation.
What we do know is, that Cousins, who is regarded as a future HOF on this board, couldn't reach the playoffs yet.
What we do know is, that Memphis had a solid amount of success with two bigs and a couple of elite defenders.
What we do know is, that Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond reached the playoffs, but got swept.
And what we do know is, that guys like Monroe or Jefferson aren't considered as franchise players.
So right now smash mouth, low post basketball is not a big thing in this league.
Now of course we can assume, that's because there are no dominant bigs today (i tend to disagree).
But what we do know is, that teams with a space and pace approach make it into the playoffs and are capable of winning championships.
So from an objective point of view, it's really difficult to make the statement, that smashmouth, low post basketball is superior right now.
I agree - you have to play a style that suits your roster. But for the Kings, were Cousins, who is as versatile as any big that ever played, is the only untouchable building block from my point of view, that doesn't mean it has to be a slow, smashmouth, low post approach.
The task is to find a way to beat the current dominant playstyle without prematurely limiting this team out of the feeling, that one particular style of basketball is superior per se.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#263
#263
Beware, what you wish for?
http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2016/5/7/11616030/dave-joerger-memphis-grizzlies-firing
Yes, there was tension between Joerger and the front office, and probably even between Joerger and some of his key players. Some reports have it that Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph and Mike Conley never took to Joerger's preferred uptempo style, and the Grizzlies would probably be playing a very different brand of basketball these days had that initial pushback not existed during Joerger's first few months on the job in 2013.
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ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#264
#264
Gilles said:
Beware, what you wish for?
http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2016/5/7/11616030/dave-joerger-memphis-grizzlies-firing
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There is no doubt that we would like to play faster than the Grizzlies. The key for me with Joerger is his body of work on the defensive end. He does get the best from his players and he seems to be smart enough to play to the strength of his players.

If we hire him, I expect us to be a much better team defensively and play at a faster pace than Grizzlies but nowhere near as fast as we did this season.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#266
#266
Čarolija said:
There is no doubt that we would like to play faster than the Grizzlies. The key for me with Joerger is his body of work on the defensive end. He does get the best from his players and he seems to be smart enough to play to the strength of his players.

If we hire him, I expect us to be a much better team defensively and play at a faster pace than Grizzlies but nowhere near as fast as we did this season.
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I think there is no doubt that Dave would like to play a bit faster as well but the Grizzlies never once in 3 years gave him any 3 point shooting or any pieces that actually compliment Z-Bo/Gasol other than a bunch of tough scrappers who reached there peak the first season he was there. Dave adjusted to a uptempo game which kept the Grizz in the playoffs and he always encouraged Marc Gasol to take close to 20 shots a game which Marc never wanted to do and I'm sure Cousins would have zero issue with. The guy adjusted to his team and the pieces or lack of that he had, it's amazing to me that in 5 years including Hollins the Grizzlies never once got any floor spacing the best they did was Jeff Green who is slightly more reliable than Derrick Williams when it comes to spacing the floor.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#267
#267
Čarolija said:
There is no doubt that we would like to play faster than the Grizzlies. The key for me with Joerger is his body of work on the defensive end. He does get the best from his players and he seems to be smart enough to play to the strength of his players.

If we hire him, I expect us to be a much better team defensively and play at a faster pace than Grizzlies but nowhere near as fast as we did this season.
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Sac.Kings said:
Everyone needs an adjustment period and fast tempo? They can't possibly be talking about the past 2 seasons. The grizzlies were called grind house for crying out loud. Anyways, this page shows their team stats of the past season.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/team/memphis-grizzlies/stats
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No, the point is, whether true or not, that Joerger wanted to play faster, than Hollins, but team leaders told him to take a hike with that idea.
Hopefully that's just an unfounded speculation.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#268
#268
Gilles said:
No, the point is, whether true or not, that Joerger wanted to play faster, than Hollins, but team leaders told him to take a hike with that idea.
Hopefully that's just an unfounded speculation.
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I don't think it's unfounded. And I would't expect us to turn into Grindhouse 2.0, when Joerger takes over. It just wouldn't make any sense with this roster. But no matter how we play on offense, we can definitely expect a improvement on the defensive end and that's pretty much the lowest common negotiator on this board.
So no matter if you like grinding out games or think a faster pace and 3 pt shooting is the way to go, Joerger looks like a decent to great coach for this team.
 
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