LPKingsFan
All-Star
Now the hard part--how do you create max cap room without sacrificing other assets? And how do you convince the Bulls not to match?
Darren Collison - Leadership - Keep the core together
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
Now the hard part--how do you create max cap room without sacrificing other assets? And how do you convince the Bulls not to match?
I feel like the only way we could leer Kofus here is if we promised him the starting job. I think he'd be a great defensive big next to Cousins. I'd give him around 20mins a game, but he doesn't always have to play alongside Cousins.
I think WCS can be our secret weapon off the bench.
JT may or may not accept his role...but truth is, he's going to have the same role he does now anywhere else in the NBA. He'd be our backup center who would get maybe 15-20mins a night? I feel like he'd like it though. He'd be the only real big on the floor that can score so he'd get more opportunities on offense.
I will repeat this every time I see a line similar to bolded: there's a reason, Ben was second after Boogie in +\- last season. One of SGs wasn't terrible.
People, who chastise JT for lack of ability to defend perimeter, would be really pleased to watch Kosta try and do that [/sarcasm]. And pairing Boogie and Kosta on offense? Again people, who thought JT doesn't space the floor well enough, shouldn't wish for this. Kosta is an excellent interior defender, who also has a relationship with Karl, so he might be convinced to come to Sacramento rather easily, but hell no to him as a starter. It will only work, if you bring Kosta via S&T for JT (might take Beno along the way, if he wouldn't mind coming back), make him 3rd big, but before that find someone to man PF (Amir or Taj), while slowly bringing WCS off the bench. After reading a bit this weekend I would say Koufos likely ends up in New York as a starter.
Jerebko will get at least his current money ($4 million), Boston loves him, so don't see any way he comes over, unless FA process is a total bust and you have to pick a decent bencher at least.
I understand the interest in Koufos but (1) he has said he wants to start and he likely wouldn't for the Kings but is good enough to do so for a number of teams given the lack of good centers in today's NBA and (2) I'd only really want him if the Kings drafted someone other than WCS. Koufos is likely getting JT-like money so why not keep a better defender with more versatility as you groom Cauley-Stein?
Now if the Kings draft Mudiay, then I could see Koufos as part of the big man rotation.
King Baller
All-Star
I'm no GM and certainly not thinking 5 steps ahead. Not a clue on how the max contract could fit into the Kings cap room. But at least that is a partial answer to your second question. For Jimmy Butler I offer a sign and trade for McLemore. Plus if the Max deal is a problem for the Kings, it is also a problem for the Bulls. I would give fair odds the Bulls opt for Ben Mac.
Mediocre 3pt shooting %, lack of assists, and etc could be stats that support the opposite.
Do you want WCS? WCS is an even worse overall offensive player than Kofus. I wouldn't always want Cousins paired with Kofus, but he should start with him most of the time depending on lineup.
We will have to overpay for Amir Johnson, and it would be even harder to convince him to come over. Johnson is another solid big, but nothing spectacular like Kofus.
Jerebko and 4million is high..if that's his asking price I'd say no thanks.. I'd like him in certain scenaris next to Cuz when we need the floor spreading. I don't like floor spreading enough to pay a below average bench player like Jerebko 4m.... Cap rises could be an argument, but no thanks then.
SwishKing
G-League
First, I don't see how you can make that assumption when WCS hasn't even played a game yet.
And what? Since when is Kosta a spectacular player? What spectacular players average 15 mins a game? I don't even see why we're talking about the guy (other than the Karl connection). He's gonna be looking for a team where he can start at C and we're set there.
WCS is not a good offensive player.. that is no secret.
I used poor choice of words, I meant that Johnson isn't anything spectacular..just like Kofus who isn't spectacular either.
It doesn't matter if Cousins plays PF/C. The rest of the NBA has pretty much gone positionless. Kofus can start for us, but it doesn't mean he'll always have to play next to Cousins.
In November-December Ben was knocking close to 40% on 3s. Then was a period of bad offense, and Ben relying on others to create shots for him, had the same efficiency as creators. Under Karl team wasn't at anything close to full strength. As a spot up shooter even with what this team went through this year Ben was better, even if by a little, than guys like Wilson Chandler, Trevor Ariza or CJ Miles.
Karl gave Ben the ball and told to attack late in the season, and Ben finished with 7 assists twice. After Darren went down the highest assist number for Sessions was 6, and he had 7 off the bench once.
The only area, where Koufos is better right now offensively than WCS is post scoring, which is irrelevant next to Boogie. Ballhandling, passing, cutting, transition, both running and even handling, allez-oop threat, roll man off of P&R, stop me, if you think, I wrote something, Koufos is better at right now. Ability to play in the post, where Koufos is average to Willie's bad, is irrelevant next to Boogie.
Nothing about Koufos is spectacular - he's a backup center, who defends and rebounds very well, and deserves to be a low-level starter as a center.
Johnson can shoot and is excellent in P&R. There's a reason his career TS% is .603, while for Kosta it's below league average .544.
ockingsfan
Starter
I think if Mudiay slides to the Kings at #6, the Kings would take him over WCS. Mudiay would give the Kings a more balanced attack and a potential 2nd star to DMC.
If Mudiay is the pick, Koufos would be a possibility for the Kings to sign as a FA. If WCS is the pick, then Koufos becomes redundant and the Kings would need to use their money for the back court.
Koufos started all 81 games at center for Coach Karl in his 57 win season in Denver 2012-13.
I can see Karl guarantee him a starting spot next to DMC. DMC would slide over to PF and Koufos would start at center. I think the Kings can get him for a 4 year 25 million contract. JT would be the 3rd big.
The Kings could trade Carl Landry for Nick Young and resign Casspi and Andre Miller to complete the off season.
PF: DMC /JT/ Moreland
SF: Gay / Casspi
C: Kousof / JT / Sim
SG: McClemore / Young / Stauskas
PG: Mudiay / Collison / Miller
King Baller
All-Star
The Clippers, Grizzlies and Rockets say hello.
I'm not sure why Mudiay in particular worries you. There are several players every year that we know will command top-6 picks before they ever play a college game based solely on their high school work. Towns and Okafor are among those from this year, as is Mudiay. The list goes back and includes #1 guys like Wiggins and Rose and LeBron (who, of course, entered the draft under different rules and didn't didn't play post-college at all).
Mudiay wasn't identified as a potential top-5 pick out of high school for nothing. Yes, he didn't play a ton in China due to injury, but I am not led to believe that his performance there suggested anything other than his high school performance did. I don't see him as any riskier than the other U.S. guys in the draft and probably less risky than the top European players in the draft (particularly Porzingis) in terms of what we don't know about him. Do we know more about Cauley-Stein? Sure. He's been in college three years. But what about Towns? He played pretty limited minutes all things considered and according to many wasn't allowed to showcase his full game. What about Russell? He wasn't even really considered a one-and-done through high school and only emerged as basically the #1 PG prospect in the second half of the college season. Are we missing something there with his smaller sample size?
There's always, always, risk in the draft, but I don't really see how Mudiay is riskier than anybody at the top other than WCS.
The rockets are positionless.. Harden plays PG more than half the time. He's the ball handler. Between D-Mo and Howard, who's the center? Maybe you put both Smith and Jones in the lineup...which 1 plays the 3 and 4?
Clippers and Grizz still have traditional positions though. There is an exception to a few teams in the NBA, but pretty much the rest of the NBA has gone positionless.
SwishKing
G-League
Their positions are actually pretty well defined. Howard's the center and D-Mo's the PF. Harden's a SG who plays as the primary ball-handler because he's the best ball handler on the team (Their starting PG is one of the worst starting point guards to make it to the playoffs). Ariza's obviously a 3. Terrence Jones is a PF. Josh Smith is really the only tweener they have, and he's pretty garbage as a SF.
IfAt1st
Starter
(Let's forget that he was injured for 3 months, and dodged the standard college path - )
* Because the Chinese league is not real competition?
http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/want-sixers-draft-mudiay-his-cba-stats-may-be-misleading
My point is that Mudiay's injury-shortened stint in the CBA is not the reason why he is projected to be a top-five pick. He was projected to be a top-five pick as a high school student. The only thing his time in the CBA has really done is act as reinforcement that the skill set he showed in high school that made him a projected top-five pick is still there.
And no, I don't think the injury is a big deal either. Kyrie Irving was injured for about the same amount of time in his only college season, and nobody worried that his body of post-H.S. work was insufficient.
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I don't think it's accurate to say he dodged college. There was a very real chance he wouldn't have played for SMU anyway had he enrolled simply because of where he went to high school:
(link)
He was better off signing a contract in China instead of sitting out a full season at SMU and then entering the draft. At least scouts got to see him play a few games against better than HS competition. It did sound like he was really looking forward to playing for Larry Brown too, so I don't think he would have gone overseas if not for the eligibility issue.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The whole Mudiay thing would be oh so much more interesting if we weren't in a position where we desperately need not to miss.
You always have to go off of what you see in workouts, so if he comes in and we are blown away...well we could be wrong, but still, what are you going to do? But his resume itself, if for instance he wouldn't work out for us or some such, screams stay the **** away in our situation. Even if you think he MIGHT be a star, it screams find some other team that thinks he MIGHT be a star and swing a favorable trade for things they have that you KNOW can help us now.
We're down to our last gallon of Cousins gas, have an elderly driver behind the coaching wheel, and are trying to reach our new building in style in 1 year's time. Its no time to go chasing rainbows.
You always have to go off of what you see in workouts, so if he comes in and we are blown away...well we could be wrong, but still, what are you going to do? But his resume itself, if for instance he wouldn't work out for us or some such, screams stay the **** away in our situation. Even if you think he MIGHT be a star, it screams find some other team that thinks he MIGHT be a star and swing a favorable trade for things they have that you KNOW can help us now.
We're down to our last gallon of Cousins gas, have an elderly driver behind the coaching wheel, and are trying to reach our new building in style in 1 year's time. Its no time to go chasing rainbows.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
The "core" really holds up when looking at the stats of their performance as a group early in the year. Yeah, I know, stats is stats, but in this case its applied to 5 players as a "core" or group making a big difference. Assuming Kings get Willy then the core has Rudy at the 4 and Willy and JT off the bench, not a bad idea. Eric Moreleand in the background but wait till summer league. You'll see him a year later and he will be on the roster in October.
Now the 3 (SF) becomes the key. Omri is great off the bench with energy, hustle and 3 pt shooting but who fits the "core" at the starting 3? DWill is not that guy but definitely a high end FA would be worth the big bucks to fill that in and have Omri, Nik, +new bench 3. Collison starts for sure with Andre and others off bench. Ben will be in his 3rd year and should be his breakout year or close to it. The most athletic guy on the team now needs to learn how to use that athleticism.
Question: Is Koufos a better backup than JT? Not sure........
Now the 3 (SF) becomes the key. Omri is great off the bench with energy, hustle and 3 pt shooting but who fits the "core" at the starting 3? DWill is not that guy but definitely a high end FA would be worth the big bucks to fill that in and have Omri, Nik, +new bench 3. Collison starts for sure with Andre and others off bench. Ben will be in his 3rd year and should be his breakout year or close to it. The most athletic guy on the team now needs to learn how to use that athleticism.
Question: Is Koufos a better backup than JT? Not sure........
The "core" really holds up when looking at the stats of their performance as a group early in the year. Yeah, I know, stats is stats, but in this case its applied to 5 players as a "core" or group making a big difference. Assuming Kings get Willy then the core has Rudy at the 4 and Willy and JT off the bench, not a bad idea. Eric Moreleand in the background but wait till summer league. You'll see him a year later and he will be on the roster in October.
Now the 3 (SF) becomes the key. Omri is great off the bench with energy, hustle and 3 pt shooting but who fits the "core" at the starting 3? DWill is not that guy but definitely a high end FA would be worth the big bucks to fill that in and have Omri, Nik, +new bench 3. Collison starts for sure with Andre and others off bench. Ben will be in his 3rd year and should be his breakout year or close to it. The most athletic guy on the team now needs to learn how to use that athleticism.
Question: Is Koufos a better backup than JT? Not sure........
Really not a fan of Rudy at the starting 4. In certain matchups you can do that but he isn't near good enough of a defender to play that draymond green type role full time.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Rudy at the 4 is pathetic. Does not work full time. Irresponsible to Cousins as well. Leaves him completely alone inside on defense. Certainly no way at all to improve the absolutely desperate and eternal Kings problem: DEFENSE.
Offense is irrelevant for the Sacramento franchise. Defense is all that matters. It has singlehandedly made us a joke for a solid decade, and most of the last 30 years. We've always, even in our down years, had enough offense to win a reasonable number of games. Not the issue.
And P.S., yes Koufos is better backup center than JT. Sometimes in contact sports people miss the fact that "talent" doesn't always win the day. When you play a contact sport you can be all kinds of skilled and pretty and nifty, and then the bigger stronger guy comes over and knocks you on your ass and all that stuff doesn't matter. Koufos is a really solid really physical backup center. Does all the meat and potatoes center stuff, never gets pushed around or beat up inside. He can't carry you, but you have him and you have your center minutes completely locked down. THEN you can worry about decorating your remaining roster with pretty weenies with cute little bows in their hair. But make sure you take care of the physical defensive work first or all the pretties are as empty as cotton candy.
Offense is irrelevant for the Sacramento franchise. Defense is all that matters. It has singlehandedly made us a joke for a solid decade, and most of the last 30 years. We've always, even in our down years, had enough offense to win a reasonable number of games. Not the issue.
And P.S., yes Koufos is better backup center than JT. Sometimes in contact sports people miss the fact that "talent" doesn't always win the day. When you play a contact sport you can be all kinds of skilled and pretty and nifty, and then the bigger stronger guy comes over and knocks you on your ass and all that stuff doesn't matter. Koufos is a really solid really physical backup center. Does all the meat and potatoes center stuff, never gets pushed around or beat up inside. He can't carry you, but you have him and you have your center minutes completely locked down. THEN you can worry about decorating your remaining roster with pretty weenies with cute little bows in their hair. But make sure you take care of the physical defensive work first or all the pretties are as empty as cotton candy.
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True, but he's not a better backup PF than JT. And considering JT and Landry are still on the roster do we really want to pay $5-6 million to Koufos too, especially if he's only playing 14 minutes a game behind Cousins?
I think that money would be much better spent adding some bench scoring and/or a solid wing defender.
ParniValjak
All-Star
There are a few ways to skin the cat. Ther are trade options out there too as I can't see both McLemore and Stauskas on the roster next season. I still think that there is some reasonable chance that we stretch Landry unless we can trade him.
Adding another close to $4 million to salary cap room is more useful than having a player that doesn't fit like Landry. Unless we trade him for Mayo or something similar.
I get the feeling a lot will depend on who is available at 6. If our guy is gone we might trade the pick all together and get veteran help.
Adding another close to $4 million to salary cap room is more useful than having a player that doesn't fit like Landry. Unless we trade him for Mayo or something similar.
I get the feeling a lot will depend on who is available at 6. If our guy is gone we might trade the pick all together and get veteran help.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Defense depends on who you are guarding. You can yell "weenie smallball" all you like, but as more and more teams are putting perimeter players at the 4, the utility of guys like JT wanes. Especially guys like JT that aren't great at punishing smaller players who guard them, nor at protecting the rim.
That's why I like Koufos. As you say, he's skilled, physical center, who can protect the rim when Cousins sits. If we're going to go big, I want to see us go BIG, with some Koufos and Boogie lineups, and see how the small teams try to get away with that. Then use Rudy at the 4 for certain stretches, in certain matchups (which I do think is more often than it may seem at first--I remember putting together a list before but the short answer is 'not everyone has a Z-Bo').
Yes, there's a concern about allocating resources when you already have JT and Landry, but "stretching" Landry is certainly an option (opening up $4 million in space by my math).
All of this, of course, assuming Cauley-Stein is off the board at 6. I'm assuming in that scenario we draft someone like Winslow who can help with the perimeter D. If WCS is there, though, I agree that changes your priorities--there's certainly not enough minutes for Cousins/Koufos/WCS and JT all to be happy.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Yep. By my read of the CBA FAQ (link), if we "stretch" Landry, we can spread his remaining $13 million over five seasons, leaving his cap hit at $2.6 a year. So, you can save that $4 million without using a single asset.
People should be talking about this more instead of crazy talk of trading down and the like. I'd be surprised if we don't do this, given how poorly Landry looks to fit in Karl's system.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Yes, and really we can tell how serious Vivek is about correcting previous mistakes and his commitment to winning next season based on whether he uses the stretch provision on Landry.
If you're dead serious about winning next year, you do whatever you can to succeed. Stretching Landry is a part of that.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Agreed. On one hand, the fact they quickly traded guys they acquired like Mbah a Moute and Vasquez makes me somewhat optimistic on that front. Especially because I think George Karl has a bigger say in personnel issues than is being reported, and he clearly has no use for Landry.
However, the issue of money concerns me. The report from the Cowbell Kingdom podcast that they slow played the Casspi signing to save a few bucks was bizarre and disconcerting. I guess it's savvy cap management? But really struck me as odd.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Being able to punish smallballing is always the key,and indeed largely what Lowe's post play article of a few days ago was about.
That said, as I've repeatedly pointed out, the Kings play in the Western Conference, the ONLY Conference in the NBA. There is the West, then there is Lebron. And in the West its Dirk and Splitter and Ibaka and Davis and Griffin and Aldridge and Favors and Randolph and probably Towns and Randle next season. And if 2 of the 3 smallballing teams out here made it to the Conference Finals, even they had David Lee lurking on the bench on one side, and their liekly 7'0" tall starting PF of the future in Montiejunas out on the other. And a large part of the West's blatant 15yr long superiority has been precisely its dominance of big man play in the league (although now they have the top 3 PGs and top SG too just to cap things).
Whoever you put out there at PF in this Conference better be able to handle himself inside, because they are coming.
