People have read what you wrote. They're simply pointing out that they do not agree with it. You're not dealing with rookie fans here.
Cousins suspended one game
- Thread starter N0tmyfault
- Start date
People have read what you wrote. They're simply pointing out that they do not agree with it. You're not dealing with rookie fans here.
So you scoff at the idea that Rondo can be a mentor to Cousins (despite Rondo saying he planned to be exactly that and Cousins talking about how much he respects Rondo) but somehow Randolph can be? Why not give Rasheed Wallace a call?
And Randolph hasn't had as many on court outbursts or issues with teammates over the last five years? Do you think that might be due in part to the fact that he's been on a Memphis team that has gone to the playoffs every one of those seasons?
And it isn't an agenda. It's the facts. Cousins is exasperating to watch a lot of times and I'm sure he's teammates are very tired of his act, but I swear some of you seem to think being a pain in the *** on the basketball court is equivalent to being a criminal.
Cousins needs to learn to control his emotions but let's revisit this discussion when Cousins finally finds himself on a winning team. I'll bet he will have miraculously "matured".
Dbeltz24
Bench
Again, just responded about the whole criminal thing. Yes, he is a huge pain in the a** on the court. But in no way would I compare him to a criminal. Model citizen off the court. Needs obvious help with his on the court antics.
Well obviously whatever "Rondo" has been trying to do hasn't worked. And it isn't shocking since he was kicked off the Mavs team during the playoffs as being noted by Rick Carlisle as being a detriment to the team!
Rick Carlisle is well known for being an anal retentive control freak. That works with some point guards, but not with a point guard the caliber of Rajon Rondo who has an exceptionally high BB IQ. Rondo sees the court with an incredible depth of field vision you very rarely see in a point guard. What this does is enable him to make split-second decisions about a play that may not be what the coach called for. THAT was the prime point of contention between he and Carlisle, who wants to be the puppet-master at all times.
I don't see how diminishing Rondo strengthens your argument about Z-Bo.
Dbeltz24
Bench
And I don't see how glorifying Rondo as a mentor to DMC strengthen's Rondo as a mentor, since it is obvious that it isn't working. Rondo also wasn't liked in Boston from his teammates like KG, Allen and Pierce and occasionally got into it with Rivers.
Zbo is also a lot older than Rondo, play's the same position, been thru a hell of a lot and happens to still be playing, and would be a great addition to this team talent wise. And hey, you know since they'd be working on the same drills in practice/shoot around, maybe just maybe they'd be able to talk more. Like those hoping Pau would be here at trade deadline to help with DMC and Willie.
kupman
Starter
For the record, I totally agree. DMC by all accounts is a good person. It is one of the reasons his behavior on the court mystifies and frustrates me.
CuzistanKing
G-League
I think it's interesting that a lot of people miss exactly what led to this most recent outburst by Cuz. He wasn't 'crying' about himself, he wasn't arguing for his own sake - he was upset that the coach didn't have his teammate's back. If you understand DMC, that's literally the only thing he ever asks for, and it's the only thing that sets him off. It's also obvious that this outburst was a result of something else boiling for a much longer time.
It absolutely gets tiring to watch him pout (nobody is blind to that fact), but it's simply unrealistic to tell Cuz to just "man up and play". He'll never respond to that kind of motivation. He will respond (in spades) to anyone who earns his respect, which funnily enough coincides with all the times we've seen "good" Cuz in his career (Team USA, under Malone, etc.) Whether it's going to be on the Kings or some other team - that's up to the Kings org.
In short, Cuz's on-court antics will magically disappear as soon as you create a healthy support system around the team. Give him hardworking coach and support cast, and you'll see a hardworking DMC. Give him a crapshow of a team (mostly, the coaching currently) and you'll see a frustrated, dejected and disinterested man-child. But yes, let's look to replace the man-child first and see how far that takes us.
P.S. I don't understand how anyone who'd seen even a single off-the-court interview by Cuz could still be questioning his character. The guy is a teddy-bear that does more for his community than 90% of "character" guys in the NBA.
It absolutely gets tiring to watch him pout (nobody is blind to that fact), but it's simply unrealistic to tell Cuz to just "man up and play". He'll never respond to that kind of motivation. He will respond (in spades) to anyone who earns his respect, which funnily enough coincides with all the times we've seen "good" Cuz in his career (Team USA, under Malone, etc.) Whether it's going to be on the Kings or some other team - that's up to the Kings org.
In short, Cuz's on-court antics will magically disappear as soon as you create a healthy support system around the team. Give him hardworking coach and support cast, and you'll see a hardworking DMC. Give him a crapshow of a team (mostly, the coaching currently) and you'll see a frustrated, dejected and disinterested man-child. But yes, let's look to replace the man-child first and see how far that takes us.
P.S. I don't understand how anyone who'd seen even a single off-the-court interview by Cuz could still be questioning his character. The guy is a teddy-bear that does more for his community than 90% of "character" guys in the NBA.
I'm still just flabbergasted that you think the best guy to mentor DeMarcus Cousins is Zach Randolph. Or that a 35 year old ZBo would be "a great addition".
And you didn't address the notion that Cousins' outbursts are largely driven by the frustration of losing. A lot. For years.
What do you think would happen if Kobe Bryant had lost for five straight seasons like Cousins has? Well, you'd never find out I suppose since Kobe started talking about wanting a trade after the Lakers' first down season post-Shaq.
Dbeltz24
Bench
I'm not sure if ZBo would be the best guy. I was just throwing around names of players I could think of at the top of my head. It's obvious ZBo can still play on the court.
And 10-15 teams per year lose a lot. But I rarely see any other of their leading players going bonkers on the court, feuding with other players/coaches and getting Td up like DMC.
And Kobe is different. He had already won 3 titles and made it clear to the FO he didn't want to be apart of a rebuild. He said trade me or build me a team. DMC chose to stay with this chaotic franchise.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I am still trying to figure out why we signed Butler.
Dbeltz24
Bench
I think we all are.
Have you seen how ZBo has matured since he was a young player? Could relate to DMC a lot by that. ZBo has come a long way since punching players, getting T'D up on a daily basis and demanding trades. He's grown up a lot in Memphis, been making the playoffs in Memphis and is highly praised from reporters, staff and peers these days, but I'm sure you're already aware of that
And Noah has a lot of respect from his peers not named DRose.
I considered the "he's reformed so maybe he could guide DeMarcus" angle but then you have to ask, is Zach Randolph a dramatically different person in Memphis or did the perception simply change because he's part of a winning team now? What happens if Randolph leaves a winning situation in Memphis to come here and we struggle to win games like we did this year? Why take the risk? We've all seen Joakim Noah blow up and get himself thrown out of basketball games before too. He's going to be the one to calm DeMarcus down in the middle of a game? I don't doubt that they have teammates and coaches who respect them. But if you're going to point out all of the trouble swirling around DeMarcus as evidence for why he needs a calming veteran presence and dismiss Rondo and Rudy in that role without further explanation, don't list two notorious hotheads as better alternatives.
I'll go one step further though. I agree with you that this is a troubling trend:
It's not career defining, plenty of other superstars have racked up techs like crazy (guess how many Kobe has...), but it is a concern and the idea of having a stronger veteran presence around him to keep him on a more even keel is a good one. Caron Butler being arrested as a 15 year old has nothing to do with this. He's been a model citizen in his basketball career. I don't know how much influence he can have from the bench though. Which is kindof the problem with most of the mentors we've tried. We had Reggie Evans for a little while. We had Caron Butler this year. Ideally the head coach is the one who gets him to see the big picture. Next best case it's someone who can be a leader on the court as well and earn DeMarcus' respect. I don't know that he would want to come here, but Al Horford jumps out to me as a guy who everyone respects as a hard-worker and model teammate who could also be a leader on the court.
So if you really think DeMarcus needs a veteran mentor (I agree with you that he does) let's bring in a starter who can fill that role and be a key player for the next 4 years and stay in DeMarcus' ear the whole time. We've already tried the 1 or 2 year rental at the end of their career and it hasn't worked. He's not going to absorb their personality and transform himself overnight. The entire culture around him has to change too. Let's get that veteran starter, let's get a head coach who leads by example, preaches defense, and doesn't sell out his players in the media.
And I respect Grant Napear's role in the history of this team, but I think it's time to cut him loose too. He's been needlessly attacking our own players for years. Just find every element of negativity in the organization and eliminate it. Is DeMarcus worth that kind of effort? That's irrelevant. This is something that needs to happen with or without DeMarcus. The George Karls and Grant Napears of the world will always find another scapegoat. I don't think you give up on a franchise player until you have no choice. And re-building the organization into a positive environment will benefit us regardless of who's currently on the roster.
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Double-K
Starter
I thought there is an age limit here?
That's pretty easy actually. Vlade knows and respects him (dating back to their short time as teammates with the Lakers I imagine) and wanted him to come be a mentor for DeMarcus. We also didn't know that Omri Casspi was going to transform himself into a lights out shooter. He was good last year, certainly we were hopeful and as it turns out he's exceeded expectations, but we still needed some insurance on the bench in case he regressed. I think Vlade must have promised Caron some regular playing time since he gave him a player option on the second year and expected him to see the floor a lot more than he has. So the signing part made sense to me. It's everything that happened once the season began that has me confused.
Dbeltz24
Bench
I considered the "he's reformed so maybe he could guide DeMarcus" angle but then you have to ask, is Zach Randolph a dramatically different person in Memphis or did the perception simply change because he's part of a winning team now? What happens if Randolph leaves a winning situation in Memphis to come here and we struggle to win games like we did this year? Why take the risk? We've all seen Joakim Noah blow up and get himself thrown out of basketball games before too. He's going to be the one to calm DeMarcus down in the middle of a game? I don't doubt that they have teammates and coaches who respect them. But if you're going to point out all of the trouble swirling around DeMarcus as evidence for why he needs a calming veteran presence and dismiss Rondo and Rudy in that role without further explanation, don't list two notorious hotheads as better alternatives.
I'll go one step further though. I agree with you that this is a troubling trend:
It's not career defining, plenty of other superstars have racked up techs like crazy (guess how many Kobe has...), but it is a concern and the idea of having a stronger veteran presence around him to keep him on a more even keel is a good one. Caron Butler being arrested as a 15 year old has nothing to do with this. He's been a model citizen in his basketball career. I don't know how much influence he can have from the bench though. Which is kindof the problem with most of the mentors we've tried. We had Reggie Evans for a little while. We had Caron Butler this year. Ideally the head coach is the one who gets him to see the big better. Next best case it's someone who can be a leader on the court as well and earn DeMarcus' respect. I don't know that he would want to come here, but Al Horford jumps out to me as a guy who everyone respects as a hard-worker and model teammate who could also be a leader on the court.
So if you really think DeMarcus needs a veteran mentor (I agree with you that he does) let's bring in a starter who can fill that role and be a key player for the next 4 years and stay in DeMarcus' ear the whole time. We've already tried the 1 or 2 year rental at the end of their career and it hasn't worked. He's not going to absorb their personality and transform himself overnight. The entire culture around him has to change too. Let's get that veteran starter, let's get a head coach who leads by example, preaches defense, and doesn't sell out his players in the media.
And I respect Grant Napear's role in the history of this team, but I think it's time to cut him loose too. He's been needlessly attacking our own players for years. Just find every element of negativity in the organization and eliminate it. Is DeMarcus worth that kind of effort? That's irrelevant. This is something that needs to happen with or without DeMarcus. The George Karls and Grant Napears of the world will always find another scapegoat. I don't think you give up on a franchise player until you have no choice. And re-building the organization into a positive environment will benefit us regardless of who's currently on the roster.
Thing is, it's hard to think of the exact mentor for DMC. I tried to name some with shaky careers that are now Vets that can play a bit still. Al Horford would be great, but I don't know if he would leave the Hawks.
And very nice research, examples and you provided a well thought out argument instead of others that just point out "DMC isn't a criminal".
I don't know if Rudy ever tried the mentor thing with DMC, I just know DMC's attitude hasn't changed.
And regarding Rondo, I just quite frankly wouldn't call him a mentor, and whatever he has done here doesn't work.
And I'll agree, Napear needs to stop publicly criticizing players as frequently as he does. I f he played both sides and praised DMC when he does well I'd be okay with him criticizing DMC. But all it seems he does is attack and not praise.
This is just my opinion as a fan, and I certainly could be wrong, but the way I see it the problems this year didn't boil over until it became apparent to everyone that George Karl couldn't help us win games. He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way when he came in (DeMarcus the most, by far) but the players were willing to accept his grating personality quirks so long as there was still hope of having a successful season. We got stories about Rondo and Cousins taking meetings with George Karl and it generally seemed like everyone was committed to the bigger goal. The cracks started to show when George repeatedly said that his schemes weren't a problem, the effort of the players was. As you can imagine, the players felt betrayed for trying to work in a scheme that they didn't really like and then having the coach responsible for that scheme point the finger at them. It reached an all-time low when we gave up 128 points in back to back games, the players threw up their hands in frustration, and the organization inexplicably decided that a slap on the coach's wrist would be sufficient to turn things around (it wasn't).
So if you're talking about on-court results, clearly not much has changed there. But I don't know that any player in the league could hold back the flood at this point. DeMarcus is never going to be happy unless we're winning. I see that as a good thing in a franchise player. And he will at least feign respect if he thinks you deserve it but once he loses that he's not shy about letting you know. Rondo's reputation is just as bad as DeMarcus' because he prefers not to talk to the media and he's argumentative in general (in a good way I think -- but then I like people who think for themselves and don't blindly trust authority figures). Most people thought they would mix poorly. The argument for Rondo as a mentor is that they are two birds of a feather personality-wise and Rondo has been to the Finals and played alongside Hall of Famers and knows what it takes to be successful. I think he has been a positive influence in many ways -- if for no other reason than DeMarcus is having the best year of his career. But he's not able to help DeMarcus with his perception problem. And until we start winning, the tag on DeMarcus that his attitude is the only thing holding him back will remain.
How do we make that happen? There's no easy answer. George Karl was supposed to be the solution until he wasn't. Rondo cleaned up a lot of our offensive problems but he hasn't been successful on the other end of the court. Willie Cauley-Stein looked promising in January and then saw his minutes gradually cut to almost nothing. Belinelli was supposed to be our reliable shooter off the bench and he couldn't have played much worse. This is getting long and aimless but I suppose the only concluding point I have to make is that the veteran mentor role is one part of the process, but any potential solutions to the "Boogie problem" are doomed from the beginning unless they help us win games. He'll always slip into bad habits when he's frustrated and he's always going to be frustrated if we're not winning. And in that sense I think what we actually have is a "winning problem" not a "Boogie problem". Fix the first one and see if the second one solves itself.
The players don't actually choose their teammates or organizational moves (discounting Lebron), so I am not sure what your point is here. My point is that shuffling players means little if the top doesn't essentially "get it". You can't build with Cousins or any other player in the last 10+ years then dumping the roster again does not change that, because the problem is you do not know how to create a winning roster and environment.
The organization controls the variables outside of individual player play. Those variables impact player play, but it doesn't work the other way as much. The organization is the body. The players are far more transient. Don't blame the bowling shoes for the fact you only roll gutter balls. You get rid of the shoes and you're still throwing it in the gutter. That's the body's fault.
Dbeltz24
Bench
I think more or less we both agree he needs a Vet Leader, and that the Vet leader needs to be able to put up numbers for this team as well. It'll help both DeMarcus's attitude on the court, and solve the winning equation.
Iced Espresso
Starter
How about a coach who he knows has his back, who puts him and his teammates in the best position to succeed?
Balanced by wise investment in the supporting cast?
Dbeltz24
Bench
If he wants that, SAC isn't the place for that.
And eventually, blaming coaching/other players for 6 years gets old.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Of course.Or, alternatively, if the team starts to win, will the "Boogie problem" be fixed?
Iced Espresso
Starter
Forgive me for wanting a top to bottom structured franchise.
Obviously Randolph and the others are the way to go.
You want a coach who will have the players back but hold them accountable. You need to hold Cuz accountable.
If the basketball makes sense, then the players will respond. They're not idiots. Players respond to good basketball. Karl has been coaching bad basketball and the players are smart enough to realize it. This has been part of the disconnect between the locker room and the coaching staff all year.
This is worse with Cuz, because if doesn't think you have it then he'll let it show. Whether a player or coach. This can be bad, but it can be good. When the entire roster knows the coach doesn't have it, then it only emboldens Cuz.
If the basketball makes sense, then the players will respond. They're not idiots. Players respond to good basketball. Karl has been coaching bad basketball and the players are smart enough to realize it. This has been part of the disconnect between the locker room and the coaching staff all year.
This is worse with Cuz, because if doesn't think you have it then he'll let it show. Whether a player or coach. This can be bad, but it can be good. When the entire roster knows the coach doesn't have it, then it only emboldens Cuz.
Dbeltz24
Bench
Obviously Randolph hasn't been a key to Memphis's success the past couple of years. Such a bench scrub.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
If Cuz is accountable, then Karl will have his back. OK.
Around and around we go. Ciao!
What?
Iced Espresso
Starter
I'm not quite sure what he has to do with our franchise structure currently. Nor desire him to be part of it.
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