Cousins suspended by the team

Henkel said:
One month doesn't make a season.
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There are two aberrant months in Reke's career thus far, and the past month+ has not been one of them. That's the player you have to deal with and critique, not the struggling 35% shooting 17pt scorer of the early season for us.

As for the rest, has it escaped everybody else's notice that Reke is far younger than everybody on that list except Rose, and is a year back of him too? Let me clue people in on something -- they were all taking a lot more stupid shots at Reke's age than they do now as well. And the solution wasn't for them to quit shooting. The solution was for them to gain experience, play through it, figure it out, just like every other star caliber player in not only NBA history, but basketball history has done. Nobody is born knowing these things, and nobody learns them from the bench.

The amusing possiblity that has occurred to me through all ths is that Sacramento fans may really not know this. It may be sincere ignorance rather than blatant unrealsitc expectations. The Sacramento Kings in their entire history have never had a kid, in fact two kids now wiht Cousins, as young and highly talented as Reke (and Cousins) on their roster. Kings fans who apparently have no clue about the struggles players of this caliber have gone through in cities all aorund the league, have never seen it themselves. Their previous tow great stars were both acquired as young stars (Webber, Richmond) already in their mid 20s and past the worst of the growing pains. This expectation that somehow kids don't screw up, and if they do they are hopeless forever, as ridiculous as it seems to me (or hopefully to anybody out there who is a parent) may come from sincerely having no frame of reference. So let me provide one: they were tryig to drum Derrick Rose out of Chicago the first half of last year. JKidd was a womanizer. Nash was a bench warmer. Webber was too immature to ever make it. Dirk was a Euro softie, and Kobe was a master of airballs. It takes time and experience, and there is nothing else for it. And the people watching it can either slap their heads and wait for it to get better, or they can turn on the kids, pretend that their own **** didn't stink at that age, and start trashing their own guys. When you are talking about young talents of this caliber the latter approach is highly hazardous to your crediblity.
 
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PurpleHaze said:
Makes sense to me. $40K plus extra $1,000 for booking special airline ticket this afternoon to OKC.
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Think they flew him 1st class or coach? It would be helarious if part of his punishment was sticking him in coach, in the middle of the row, with only peanuts to eat.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I'm not saying you are saying that necessarily, I'm just explaining why I feel the need to point out the very possible downside of Cousins' attitude, it's not just a simple maturity and age thing. Attitudes like that don't always improve with age, so I don't think we should take for granted that he'll get over it. We'd be very lucky if is able to mature.
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Are you an expert to be able to say that about someone you've never talked to?
 
Bricklayer said:
There are two aberrant months in Reke's career thus far, and the past month+ has not been one of them. That's the player you have to deal with and critique, not the struggling 35% shooting 17pt scorer of the early season for us.

As for the rest, has it escaped everybody else's notice that Reke is far younger than everybody on that list except Rose, and is a year back of him too? Let me clue people in on something -- they were all taking a lot more stupid shots at Reke's age than they do now as well. And the solution wasn't for them to quit shooting. The solution was for them to gain experience, play through it, figure it out, just like every other star caliber player in not only NBA history, but basketball history has done. Nobody is born knowing these things, and nobody learns them from the bench.

The amusing possiblity that has occurred to me through all ths is that Sacramento fans may really not know this. It may be sincere ignorance rather than blatant unrealsitc expectations. The Sacramento Kings in their entire history have never had a kid, in fact two kids now wiht Cousins, as young and highly talented as Reke (and Cousins) on their roster. Kings fans who apparently have no clue about the struggles players of this caliber have gone through in cities all aorund the league, have never seen it themselves. Their previous tow great stars were both acquired as young stars (Webber, Richmond) already in their mid 20s and past the worst of the growing pains. This expectation that somehow kids don't screw up, and if they do they are hopeless forever, as ridiculous as it seems to me (or hopefully to anybody out there who is a parent) may come from sincerely having no frame of reference. So let me provide one: they were tryig to drum Derrick Rose out of Chicago the first half of last year. Yao was an overrated flop. Webber was too immature to ever make it. Dirk was a Euro softie, and Kobe was a master of airballs. It takes time and experience, and there is nothing else for it. And the people watching it can either slap their heads and wait for it to get better, or they can turn on the kids, pretend that their own **** didn't stink at that age, and start trashing their own guys. When you are talking about young talents of this caiber the latter approach is highly hazardous to your crediblity.
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I'm not sure if that is all addressed to me or what, but if it is you are making it sound like I called for the kids head. You put up stats of several super stars against Evans and basically asked what the difference was, or as you put it "Is it just that he is a King, and that nobody watches the other guys play except on highlights and so never sees their bad shots?". I responded to that by pointing out Evans short coming compared to those super stars player that once again you used as an example.

I never said Evans was doomed or beyond improvement. I said he is to ball dominate and takes bad shots, which I stand by. I wouldn't bet against him and respect his talent, but to simple say its inevitable that by pure force of talent alone is destined to be a super star is something I don't prescribe to either. Their are a lot of examples of guys with all the talent in the world who didn't put it together. Once again so you don't frame my argument in a overly negative light, I'm not saying that's the case with Evans. I'm just saying he has some issues he needs to address to take that next step. The issue are there, they exist. Thats as far as I took it.
 
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bajaden said:
I think the point is whether a player can become a good 3 pt shooter if he wasn't one to begin with. True Magic and Jordan didn't take that many 3 pt shots in their first couple of years. But the reason they didn't, was because they wern't very good shooters from out there. Now if you want to imply that perhaps Tyreke should take less, then thats a different issue altogether. From his prespective, you don't know if your improving if you don't try.

I do think one thing that would help, would be to improve his mid-range game. Its an easier shot, and would still help his game if the defender is going to play off of him.
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Improvement needs to come from improving form in practice and the off season. Not during games. If someone keeps doing the wrong thing over and over it just makes it harder to fix.
 
Bricklayer said:
Since January 1st Reke's numbers have been 20.2pts (.448 FG%) 5.0reb 6.0ast.

Here are a few other players on the season:

Derrick Rose (MVP candidate) -- 24.7pts (.446FG%) 4.4reb 8.1ast
Kobe Bryant (MVP candidate) -- 25.4pts (.464FG%) 5.2reb 4.9ast
Carmelo Anthony (sought after drama queen) -- 25.1pts (.452FG%) 7.6reb 2.8ast
Kevin Martin (former golden boy) -- 23.4pts (.440FG%) 3.0reb 2.4ast

so what exactly is the criterion for a young player who takes too many bad shots? Is it just that he is a King, and that nobody watches the other guys play except on highlights and so never sees their bad shots?
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And what are the team records?
 
bajaden said:
Let me try one more time. For some reason were off on the wrong track here. I was responding to a post that implied that most players that come into the league with a bad outside shot, and don't improve by their second year, in general never become good outside shooters. And then it was stated that Tyreke hadn't improved at all.

So I pointed out that he had improved by around 4% pt's. I acknowledged that it nothing to write home about, but it was impovement. I tried to show two players that everyone would know, and how they both couldn't shoot a lick at the beginning, and both became decent outside shooters. I wasn't comparing Tyreke to either of them in reputation, accomplishments, or implying that he would one day be their equal. I was just showing that even great players wern't perfect when they came into the league, and that they improved.

My post had nothing to do with his volume of shots, the quality of his shots, or the poor timing of some of his shots. And while those things are important, they're seperate issues from what I was referring to.
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Most don't come in with the poor form that Evans has either.
 
Section 101 said:
And what are the team records?
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And what are the rest of the rosters?

That's a B.S. charge, and you know it. Especially the way this team has been playing since everybody started coming on line. We could draw any of those teams for the next game right now and have every expectation of the game coming down to the final few minutes. And that's with a roster full of kids with a smattering of journeyman vets.
 
Section 101 said:
Improvement needs to come from improving form in practice and the off season. Not during games. If someone keeps doing the wrong thing over and over it just makes it harder to fix.
Click to expand...

Then we shouldn't expect any improvement until next year.

Game time is absolutely the best time to fix things. You can't mimic game speed or situation in practice. That's why court experience and playing time is so important. Two things that Cousins and Evans are getting a heavy dose of.
 
Henkel said:
Experience is a valid excuse for a lot of Evans short comings. That still doesn't change reality. He has holes in his game that he needs to address. I don't think pointing that out is being overly critical. I'm not calling for him to be traded or saying that he is beyond improvement.
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All fair points. And I don't think those that support Tyreke deny that he has holes in his game. I think the larger point is that there aren't many players that come into the league that don't have holes in their game.
 
Bricklayer said:
There are two aberrant months in Reke's career thus far, and the past month+ has not been one of them. That's the player you have to deal with and critique, not the struggling 35% shooting 17pt scorer of the early season for us.

As for the rest, has it escaped everybody else's notice that Reke is far younger than everybody on that list except Rose, and is a year back of him too? Let me clue people in on something -- they were all taking a lot more stupid shots at Reke's age than they do now as well. And the solution wasn't for them to quit shooting. The solution was for them to gain experience, play through it, figure it out, just like every other star caliber player in not only NBA history, but basketball history has done. Nobody is born knowing these things, and nobody learns them from the bench.

The amusing possiblity that has occurred to me through all ths is that Sacramento fans may really not know this. It may be sincere ignorance rather than blatant unrealsitc expectations. The Sacramento Kings in their entire history have never had a kid, in fact two kids now wiht Cousins, as young and highly talented as Reke (and Cousins) on their roster. Kings fans who apparently have no clue about the struggles players of this caliber have gone through in cities all aorund the league, have never seen it themselves. Their previous tow great stars were both acquired as young stars (Webber, Richmond) already in their mid 20s and past the worst of the growing pains. This expectation that somehow kids don't screw up, and if they do they are hopeless forever, as ridiculous as it seems to me (or hopefully to anybody out there who is a parent) may come from sincerely having no frame of reference. So let me provide one: they were tryig to drum Derrick Rose out of Chicago the first half of last year. JKidd was a womanizer. Nash was a bench warmer. Webber was too immature to ever make it. Dirk was a Euro softie, and Kobe was a master of airballs. It takes time and experience, and there is nothing else for it. And the people watching it can either slap their heads and wait for it to get better, or they can turn on the kids, pretend that their own **** didn't stink at that age, and start trashing their own guys. When you are talking about young talents of this caliber the latter approach is highly hazardous to your crediblity.
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1. Have you considered the possibility that the criticism they received, and the fact that people were pointing out their deficiencies, played a role in their improvement and rise to stardom?

2. Just as there were players who overcame the deficiencies in their game and became stars, there are hundreds of more players who were unable to overcome their weaknesses and did not fulfill their potential. You can't bank on a player becoming a superstar based on potential alone. You have to see the direction of their development, and raise the appropriate questions. Personally, I am not too concerned about Tyreke's shot. This is something that will come in time. The questions that should be raised regarding Tyreke have nothing to do with "hate" but have everything to do with concern for the team's future. If Tyreke is the franchise player of the future, it is important to ask - will he grow into a defined position (he can posess the ability to play both guard positions, but he needs to become a complete player in one of them, which he is still far from being)? Will his style of play help the other players thrive? Is he socially capable of being a leader (are the rest of the players on the team on board with him being the leader)? Is he open to hearing criticism and using it as a guide to improve himself in all aspects of the game?

I think these are all legitimate questions that can and should be asked. For the good of the team, AND for the good of Tyreke and his career.
 
Superman said:
Bajaden,

Both of my posts were directed at a different poster. That's probably why we're off on the wrong track. LOL.

I agree with you that most players, especially athletic players who were always better than everyone else, struggle with their shot early in their careers. In many cases, they never become consistent shooters. And yes, Tyreke has shown improvement from Year 1 to Year 2. We agree, for the most part.
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Goodie, goodie! I love when people agree with me. Even a little bit..
 
rainmaker said:
Think they flew him 1st class or coach? It would be helarious if part of his punishment was sticking him in coach, in the middle of the row, with only peanuts to eat.
Click to expand...

They were going to fly him back in a Piper Cub, but he was too big for the plane.
 
Section 101 said:
Improvement needs to come from improving form in practice and the off season. Not during games. If someone keeps doing the wrong thing over and over it just makes it harder to fix.
Click to expand...

Well it is sort of a chicken or egg thing. Shooting the ball in a game is entirely different than shooting it at practice. So the only way to know if you've improved is by shooting during games.
 
bajaden said:
All fair points. And I don't think those that support Tyreke deny that he has holes in his game. I think the larger point is that there aren't many players that come into the league that don't have holes in their game.
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That is a also a fair point that should be part of this discussion. I just don't think any criticism or concern regarding Evans needs to be taken as a attack. Its leaves no room for a critical discussion, which is unreasonable and kind of uninteresting.
 
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