Cousins suspended by the team
- Thread starter ReinadelosReys
- Start date
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Bottomline, IMO, is the execution wasn't poor on that last play, and actually was better than what we have seen of late. If Cousins was on the block, and Omri cut to the perimeter(elbow extended), than something like that could work, but that would ahve been a different play.
Section 101
All-Star
Bajaden was comparing them not me.
I was pointing out that while the % maybe close, the numbers taken are way different along with the overall shooting %.
The point is Evans needs to stop taking so many 3's. The only time he has any consistance is catching and shooting while his body is still moving toward the basket, ie not fading. His off the dribble or set shot, usually after a pump fake is horrible. Mostly because its a fade away or off balance.
Superman said:
Fixed.
I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone. Just saying that I think it's fruitless to compare Evans' three point shooting to Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Brick already mentioned that we're talking about two separate eras (three point shooting is up drastically from the 80's and 90's). On top of that, those guys are all time greats.
Tyreke's shot selection has left a lot to be desired this season, and that includes his three point shooting. That said, young players who were able to rely on their athleticism throughout their formative years usually don't have a consistent stroke from outside. You hope it improves, and meanwhile, you hope your guy takes good shots.
The Hammer
All-Star
Not to dwell or anything, but Donte could have waited til after Omri made his cut to the corner, clearing out space for Cuz to get the ball and go to work, I mean he had friggin Collison on him. Collison's not a bad defender, but given the space Cuz seems like he would have had after everyone made their cuts (given Donte's would have been to the top), seems like he would have had a play.
From the video, the way people were moving, it seems like that would have worked, and at the worst if Cuz got it, and Donte swung up top bringing his man, but Omri's man came and doubled Cuz, and he could get a shot off, then he kicks out to Omri for the corner three.
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Rockmeister
All-Star
You know its so easy for people to say what Donte should have done or didn't do after the fact. However, when you are "in the moment", its not that easy.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think the point is whether a player can become a good 3 pt shooter if he wasn't one to begin with. True Magic and Jordan didn't take that many 3 pt shots in their first couple of years. But the reason they didn't, was because they wern't very good shooters from out there. Now if you want to imply that perhaps Tyreke should take less, then thats a different issue altogether. From his prespective, you don't know if your improving if you don't try.
I do think one thing that would help, would be to improve his mid-range game. Its an easier shot, and would still help his game if the defender is going to play off of him.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Since January 1st Reke's numbers have been 20.2pts (.448 FG%) 5.0reb 6.0ast.
Here are a few other players on the season:
Derrick Rose (MVP candidate) -- 24.7pts (.446FG%) 4.4reb 8.1ast
Kobe Bryant (MVP candidate) -- 25.4pts (.464FG%) 5.2reb 4.9ast
Carmelo Anthony (sought after drama queen) -- 25.1pts (.452FG%) 7.6reb 2.8ast
Kevin Martin (former golden boy) -- 23.4pts (.440FG%) 3.0reb 2.4ast
so what exactly is the criterion for a young player who takes too many bad shots? Is it just that he is a King, and that nobody watches the other guys play except on highlights and so never sees their bad shots?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I never thought it would be all puppy dogs and kitty cats. Before we ever drafted him I acknowledged that there was risk with him. I just felt that the reward outweighed the risk. I could be wrong, and I guess we'll eventually see. I believe he's trying, but trying will only get you so far. And your right about the NBA not being like the real world. Its worse! In the real world no one would even care about what happened except the people involved. In the NBA everything is magnified, and exaggerated. Thats not an excuse. It just is what it is, and he has to learn to deal with it.
That's eternally the key to a player like Tyreke, who excels at getting into the paint. Knowing when to stop and take that midrange jumper is something that takes time, and it's altogether another thing to be able to hit that shot with any regularity. But it's what all the great slashing guards have had to add to their game, and once they do, their game goes to a totally different level. MJ, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, etc., none of them were/are traditionally good distance shooters, especially not early on. But once they figured out that midrange jumper and were able to make it consistently, it turned them into more than just another player. That's far more important to a player like Tyreke than his three point shot.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Ahemm! I recommend drafting Jimmer Fredette. Best shooter coming out of college that I've seen since Larry Bird. He's also a foul magnet..Unfortunately we would have to aquire another 1st round pick to get him. Ours is too high..
bajaden
Hall of Famer
That even magnifies my point. They couldn't shoot a lick when they came into the league, and they both became decent to good outside shooters. When last I checked Tyreke was the ROY. Who would you prefer I compare him to? Vinnie Del Negro?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kings fans are far too wise for such a unbalanced comparison -- Vinny was after all the far more beloved Sacramento Kings figure.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
He had five seconds, not ten. If he waited for the cut and then passed to DeMarcus, DeMarcus would have litterally had to toss the ball over his shoulder to get the shot off in time
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The only reference I made to overall shooting percentage was that Tyreke's overall shooting percentage has gone down this year, and I attribute some of that to the fact that he taking more 3 pt shots. He's taken almost as many 3 pt shots right now as he did for the entire year last year. What's so hard to understand about that. It may not be the entire reason, but its certainly part of the reason.
As for Wallace, I qualified my premise at the begining by saying they improved to be decent to good outside shooters. I would say that Wallace is decent, and certainly far better than he was at the beginning of his career. Evans doesn't have to be great, he just has to be good enough to make them respect his shot. If he had a good mid-range game, like Wade has, thats all he would need.
Isn't that what Carl Landry is for?
Nothing against Carl, but the frontcourt is getting kind of tight, and I'd be very happy next year with a top five of Cousins/Dalembert(resigned)/Thompson/Whiteside/Jackson(resigned, or other option). That may be contingent on Whiteside's progress, but still, I see Landry as the piece with the best combination of expendability and value.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I'm not even talking about overall fg%. I'm talking about the ability to hit mid range shots as well, which he is also very poor at. Basically, he can only really hit shots close to the basket with good accuracy, and even when it comes to that, he can't play above the rim like Wade can.
Wallace may be better than he was at the beginning of his career, but he's still a mediocre shooter, if not sitll a poor one. If Evans became a Gerald Wallace type shooter, I don't think he would be nearly as good as some expect him to be.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
As I noted elsewhere, since Reke's recovery from whatever, sicne the new basically, he's shooting .450m basically the same percentage he did last year. The huge falloff early in the year remains somewhat mysterious, perhaps health driven, but whatever it ws it wasn't a structural issue wiht hsi game so much as jsut being hindered so he couldn't execute any of his game at all.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Let me try one more time. For some reason were off on the wrong track here. I was responding to a post that implied that most players that come into the league with a bad outside shot, and don't improve by their second year, in general never become good outside shooters. And then it was stated that Tyreke hadn't improved at all.
So I pointed out that he had improved by around 4% pt's. I acknowledged that it nothing to write home about, but it was impovement. I tried to show two players that everyone would know, and how they both couldn't shoot a lick at the beginning, and both became decent outside shooters. I wasn't comparing Tyreke to either of them in reputation, accomplishments, or implying that he would one day be their equal. I was just showing that even great players wern't perfect when they came into the league, and that they improved.
My post had nothing to do with his volume of shots, the quality of his shots, or the poor timing of some of his shots. And while those things are important, they're seperate issues from what I was referring to.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I'm not saying you are saying that necessarily, I'm just explaining why I feel the need to point out the very possible downside of Cousins' attitude, it's not just a simple maturity and age thing. Attitudes like that don't always improve with age, so I don't think we should take for granted that he'll get over it. We'd be very lucky if is able to mature.
With all that said, I'd never question the drafting of Cousins. I was very glad we got him, and I still am. Who else would we have gotten? Monroe? Davis? No thank you.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Except that you have Durant with his length shading the baseline AND a few seconds to inbound the ball have already expired so there was a very real chance to get a 5 second violation if Greene waited for the "traffic" to clear around Cousins.
Fact is that Greene looked towards Cousins to pass him the ball...he rightly tought that it was a risky move that could result in the turnover so he went the safe option of going to Tyreke up the top. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the decision making there and 99/100 players would have done what Greene did.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Bingo! You've hit the nail. He's ours, and therefore we criticize. Think how many players over the last five years that people wanted to trade for that are now either busts, or out of the league. The grass always looks greener. Mainly because most people only see the other teams when they play the Kings. Someone will have a career night against us, and people think thats the norm. Sorry folks. Thats why they keep stats.
Does Evans make more mistakes than Steve Nash. God I would hope so considering Nash's experience. He's halfway through his second year in the league. Try thinking of it as four years of college. He still has two and half years before he graduates. I wonder how many out there graduated after one year of college. Sorry, I'm just a metaphorical kiind of guy.
Henkel
Starter
One month doesn't make a season. Also, I watch a lot of basketball outside of the Kings, so you can't use that to simply dismiss what I'm saying.
As the go to guy on a team some bad shots are inevitable. A player like Evans or the above examples are going to be forced to create and take shots, good or bad, at the end of the shot clock or when the defense forces the offense to break down. I know the difference between that and simply bad offensive execution.
Evans dominates the ball, he is slow to move the ball and get into offensive sets. This unnecessary leads to offensive possessions that are rushed due to his inability to move the ball. He also pounds the ball at the three foot line for 5-8 sec then drives into a obviously set defense only to take a fade away 20 footer. That's bad offense and something he does far to often. He also doesn't run the break very well. He fails to find teammates who have easier shots, preferring instead to keep the ball for himself.
His turnovers are often a result over dribbling or dominating the ball as well. When a defense shifts 3 guys to his side of the floor Evans has to move the ball. You have the defense off balance, take advantage of that by moving the ball. This becomes painful obvious when Evans is playing against zone defenses and can't compensate for a defense that is geared to stop his penetration.
Star players need to be selfish to a degree, but they are also responsible for getting their teammates involved. I don't expect Evans to be perfect, he just needs to find a better balance on offense. I also don't think Westphal has done a good job of helping Evans find that balance.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Something I really don't understand about the criticism of Tyreke, is that a lot of the criticism leveled towards him is the same criticism Rose/Westbrook received last season. Can't shoot the 3, can't shoot a 15 footer, can't play well off the ball, tunnel vision, ball hog, not a pure pg, etc.. Then, less than a year later, one is an MVP candidate, the other a 1st time all star, and posters here have said Tyreke will never be as good as either, or will develop as much as either. Which is rediculous in its own right, given all are 22 yrs old or younger.
To put it simple, I'm more shocked at the tunnel visions of some of our fellow posters, than I am of the tunnel vision Tyreke excibits.
Henkel
Starter
Experience is a valid excuse for a lot of Evans short comings. That still doesn't change reality. He has holes in his game that he needs to address. I don't think pointing that out is being overly critical. I'm not calling for him to be traded or saying that he is beyond improvement.
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=LarryLegend=
Starter
Per Sam Amcks twitter Kings fined DMC 41k!!
Bajaden,
Both of my posts were directed at a different poster. That's probably why we're off on the wrong track. LOL.
I agree with you that most players, especially athletic players who were always better than everyone else, struggle with their shot early in their careers. In many cases, they never become consistent shooters. And yes, Tyreke has shown improvement from Year 1 to Year 2. We agree, for the most part.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
What a random amount.
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