Cousins' fouling

Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
He is a foul machine. Some of his fouls seem to be normal considering the position he plays. Others seems to be committed out of frustration/stupidity/over evaluation of his skills. We all know that he led the NBA in fouls last year and will probably do so this year. If this guy could stay on the court longer, he would have monster numbers. He alters the game. As it is, there are few opposition players who can handle him.

This seems to be simply bad judgment with the occassional retaliation foul that a variety of players commit when they just have screwed up and feel the necessity to make up for it.

Is there anything he can do? I suspect that as the years pass his fouling rate will slow down but then again, maybe not. It is the "maybe not" that concerns me.

I can't figure it out but I want to pose a question that may be absurd but then again we are dealing with Cousins. Does it make any sense as a short time experiment to tell him not to even try to play defense but at best be allowed to hold his hands straight over his head? I know how this sounds but it doesn't seem possible for Cuz to handle direction any more complicated. He can't grasp subtlties or so is my guess. Perhaps he will improve in time but so far he doesn't seem to have improved at all. And ... I don't want to wait. (A few other things limit him but I hope this thread stays away from his immaturity as an issue unless there can be some connection of his emotional immaturity to his propensity to foul.)

Another crazy possibility I have thought of is to have someone on the bench guide him. Yell instructions to him in some way. When he heads towards trying to stop a PG, tell him to back off. It all seems obvious to the average basketball player but not to him.

He has at least one idiotic foul per game and even HE seems to recognize this. I could almost compare this to his tendency to throw the impossible psss. It's like he sees a possibility that really isn't there. I was hoping that having Hayes on the court would help him not only by taking away some defensive responsibilities but also to have a mentor chattering in his ear in real time.
 
He can limit his fouling by doing two simple things, 1) Stop reaching in for the steal, especially on guards - he does this regularly, especially after making a mistake or after the other team gets a defensive rebound. He picks up so many silly fouls this way, and 2) learn when to take the charge. He tries it too often, even if he takes it correctly everytime the refs are going to call some as blocking fouls. Refs just guess half the time. It's OK taking the charge, although not ideal, but you can't do it more then 2 or 3 times a game, maximum.

The rest will come with experience and learning what he can and can't do when trying to block shots etc..
 
Silly question I suppose but how do you teach a guy to quit reaching in? I suspect he has been told this over and over.
 
What I think remarkable is that the Kings have had the league's elite foul machine on the roster for 4 of the last 5 years!

NBA Foul Leaders, By Year
2011-12: Cousins 4.9 (in only 25.8min! #2 = Jermaine O'Neal at only 4.0)
2010-11: Cousins 4.1
2009-10: Thompson 3.9
2008-09: Oden 3.9, 2nd was Thompson 3.8
2007-08: Moore 3.8

We have been absolutely elite at this. I would go so far as to say that there probably hasn't been another team in history who can equal that kind of streak.
 
Glenn said:
He is a foul machine. Some of his fouls seem to be normal considering the position he plays. Others seems to be committed out of frustration/stupidity/over evaluation of his skills. We all know that he led the NBA in fouls last year and will probably do so this year. If this guy could stay on the court longer, he would have monster numbers. He alters the game. As it is, there are few opposition players who can handle him.

This seems to be simply bad judgment with the occassional retaliation foul that a variety of players commit when they just have screwed up and feel the necessity to make up for it.

Is there anything he can do? I suspect that as the years pass his fouling rate will slow down but then again, maybe not. It is the "maybe not" that concerns me.

I can't figure it out but I want to pose a question that may be absurd but then again we are dealing with Cousins. Does it make any sense as a short time experiment to tell him not to even try to play defense but at best be allowed to hold his hands straight over his head? I know how this sounds but it doesn't seem possible for Cuz to handle direction any more complicated. He can't grasp subtlties or so is my guess. Perhaps he will improve in time but so far he doesn't seem to have improved at all. And ... I don't want to wait. (A few other things limit him but I hope this thread stays away from his immaturity as an issue unless there can be some connection of his emotional immaturity to his propensity to foul.)

Another crazy possibility I have thought of is to have someone on the bench guide him. Yell instructions to him in some way. When he heads towards trying to stop a PG, tell him to back off. It all seems obvious to the average basketball player but not to him.

He has at least one idiotic foul per game and even HE seems to recognize this. I could almost compare this to his tendency to throw the impossible psss. It's like he sees a possibility that really isn't there. I was hoping that having Hayes on the court would help him not only by taking away some defensive responsibilities but also to have a mentor chattering in his ear in real time.
Click to expand...


Of all the Kings problems, this one doesn't concern me. He could make a dramatic difference in his foul rate by avoiding going for charges when he's got 3+ fouls and by having more discretion reaching in on guards. It might take time, but he WILL get better at these two things.

Fouling is limiting his minutes. If he wants more minutes, he simply has to foul less. I think this simple math has him averaging <4 by the end of the year. Last year his conditioning and the presence of SamD meant he probably wasn't going to average 30+ minutes a game. This year, he's indisputably the top dog in the front court, so the number of minutes he plays are pretty much up to him.
 
Glenn said:
Silly question I suppose but how do you teach a guy to quit reaching in? I suspect he has been told this over and over.
Click to expand...

Its called a habit. A learned reaction! We operate off of learned reflex and muscle memory. There's a reason a golf pro would rather teach someone thats never touched a golf club, than someone thats played for 10 years. Old habits are hard to break, and it takes serious commitment to do so. Its not about being stupid, or being immature, or anything else other than having learned bad habits, and trying to replace those habits with better alternatives.

I'm sure there's no one on the planet that wants to stop getting silly fouls more than Cousins. He also happens to be a very aggressive player, which doesn't lend itself to making an easy transition. Its just going to take time and commitment. He knows what the problem is. He wants to change it. He's a smart guy, he'll figure it out..
 
Bricklayer said:
What I think remarkable is that the Kings have had the league's elite foul machine on the roster for 4 of the last 5 years!

NBA Foul Leaders, By Year
2011-12: Cousins 4.9 (in only 25.8min! #2 = Jermaine O'Neal at only 4.0)
2010-11: Cousins 4.1
2009-10: Thompson 3.9
2008-09: Oden 3.9, 2nd was Thompson 3.8
2007-08: Moore 3.8

We have been absolutely elite at this. I would go so far as to say that there probably hasn't been another team in history who can equal that kind of streak.
Click to expand...

Given that a variety of our big guys are consistently in the above list, maybe part of the problem lies with the guards allowing easier penetration.
 
Thompson's foul issue stopped when
1) he settled down a little and started playing within himself
2) he stopped being so demonstrative when he was called for a foul.

I think refs look to call Cousins for fouls when he makes all those pouty facial expressions. I've seen him do better at this at times this year but still way too demonstrative. He'll grow out of it just like Thompson did.
 
Bricklayer said:
What I think remarkable is that the Kings have had the league's elite foul machine on the roster for 4 of the last 5 years!

NBA Foul Leaders, By Year
2011-12: Cousins 4.9 (in only 25.8min! #2 = Jermaine O'Neal at only 4.0)
2010-11: Cousins 4.1
2009-10: Thompson 3.9
2008-09: Oden 3.9, 2nd was Thompson 3.8
2007-08: Moore 3.8

We have been absolutely elite at this. I would go so far as to say that there probably hasn't been another team in history who can equal that kind of streak.
Click to expand...

I think there's more to it than just "our guys foul a lot".

For instance, if you look at fouls per minute as opposed to fouls per game, between '06-'07 and '11-12 (link) there are 350 players who have committed at least 3.5 fouls per 36 minutes and have been regular players (defined by 15 minutes per game and qualification for minutes leaders). We would expect that an average team would have 11.7 players on this list, and the Kings have 15. Furthermore, those 15 players aren't clumped at the top (though it's true that DeMarcus is #1 overall for this season - in a small sample size) but are distributed among the 350 quite evenly. This really suggests only a slight propensity to rack up fouls more than average.

One could look at it another way and look at total team fouls. In '06-'07 we were 19th in the league in fouls committed, so fewer than average. Since then we've committed more fouls than average: #7, #2, #5, #8, #10. Our foul ranking appears to be getting a bit better as the years go by, but yes, we're committing more than average. Still, I'm not sure a run like this registers as anything like historic.

What we've been leading the league in is fouls per game for individual players. And that means that we have some players who have a tendency to commit fouls upon whom we rely for big minutes. Cousins - he's young, but we need to play him and want to develop him. Thompson a few years ago was the same story. (No excuse for Mikki.)

I think this is a lot less "we are elite fouling machines" and a lot more "our young post players foul a lot, but we want to play them and we can cope with them fouling out every so often, especially since our front line isn't so deep". I think we should kind of expect this as we develop young frontcourt talent.
 
Glenn said:
If this guy could stay on the court longer, he would have monster numbers. He alters the game. As it is, there are few opposition players who can handle him.
Click to expand...
I so wholeheartedly agree with this subject.

I desperately want to see what kind of numbers DMC can put up when he's on his game, and only gets taken out of it when he's winded. Plays more than 42 minutes of the game. I'd LOVE to see that, someday - the sooner the better.

There are 2 factors which cause DMC to foul so much -
1) All of the things mentioned by others, especially (in my mind) his STUPID reaching out at the ball-carrier. If he could just keep his arms near his sides when people are dribbling he'd have 1 or 2 less fouls a game. I see him doing it during the play and call it out, too. "Hey, Demarcus! Stop reaching your hand out! You're going to get a foul called on you!"

2 seconds later

Tweeeeet! "Foul on the Kings, #15" :(

2) When Demarcus is playing hard and starting to dominate, I've noted the bigs on the other teams deliberately start pushing him and "laying the wood" - they know the refs call fouls on DMC VERY quick, and they figure - why have to beat DMC on the court when it's a statistical certainty that even if I get fouls called on me, he will be getting fouls called also and then he'll have to sit down - threat neutralized.

DMC can stop #1 from happening, if he tries VERY hard to contain his play and stop trying to take so many charges (even if he's gotten a lot of the calls this year, and think he's gotten MUCH better at doing it).
But he CAN'T change the reality of the refs in the league, who have so far proven that every time DMC is physical down on the block and is fighting for position, they WILL incessantly call a % of the contact plays against him, which will take him out of games as long as he is in the league.
For example, that play against the Magic, where DMC was in great position down low, jumped up high and grabbed the ball with one hand with his left arm bracing against the Magic player, only to get called a foul on him when the Magic player moved away from him slightly was absolutely HIDEOUS. If a guy can't take advantage of jumping up and grabbing a rebound when he's fought his way into position, than there's little point of getting there. For years (nay, decades!), I've watched other team's big guys push our bigs all the way under the basket whilst grabbing countless rebounds and not get called fouls on them - the refs obviously call the game different when DMC is fighting for a rebound - it's been crystal clear the past 2 seasons so far.

Demarcus is like the anti-Shaq. The refs don't let ANY contact down low go without a call.
It's the easiest way to keep a player from becoming dominant, if you were a conspiratorial fan.
 
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IfAt1st said:
I so wholeheartedly agree with this subject.

I desperately want to see what kind of numbers DMC can put up when he's on his game, and only gets taken out of it when he's winded. Plays more than 42 minutes of the game. I'd LOVE to see that, someday - the sooner the better.

There are 2 factors which cause DMC to foul so much -
1) All of the things mentioned by others, especially (in my mind) his STUPID reaching out at the ball-carrier. If he could just keep his arms near his sides when people are dribbling he'd have 1 or 2 less fouls a game. I see him doing it during the play and call it out, too. "Hey, Demarcus! Stop reaching your hand out! You're going to get a foul called on you!"

2 seconds later

Tweeeeet! "Foul on the Kings, #15" :(

2) When Demarcus is playing hard and starting to dominate, I've noted the bigs on the other teams deliberately start pushing him and "laying the wood" - they know the refs call fouls on DMC VERY quick, and they figure - why have to beat DMC on the court when it's a statistical certainty that even if I get fouls called on me, he will be getting fouls called also and then he'll have to sit down - threat neutralized.

DMC can stop #1 from happening, if he tries VERY hard to contain his play and stop trying to take so many charges (even if he's gotten a lot of the calls this year, and think he's gotten MUCH better at doing it).
But he CAN'T change the reality of the refs in the league, who have so far proven that every time DMC is physical down on the block and is fighting for position, they WILL incessantly call a % of the contact plays against him, which will take him out of games as long as he is in the league.
For example, that play against the Magic, where DMC was in great position down low, jumped up high and grabbed the ball with one hand with his left arm bracing against the Magic player, only to get called a foul on him when the Magic player moved away from him slightly was absolutely HIDEOUS. If a guy can't take advantage of jumping up and grabbing a rebound when he's fought his way into position, than there's little point of getting there. I've watched other team's big guys push our bigs all the way under the basket whilst grabbing countless rebounds and not get called fouls on them - the refs obviously call the game different when DMC is fighting for a rebound - it's been crystal clear the past 2 seasons so far.

Demarcus is like the anti-Shaq. The refs don't let ANY contact down low go without a call.
It's the easiest way to keep a player from becoming dominant, if you were a conspiratorial fan.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you say, but I do think when it comes to the ref's, it depends on who they are. Its hard to fault the ref's in the last game when they were calling fouls on Howard at the same rate as Cousins. At least as far as bias goes. I do think that Cousins has to know that he has a target on his back by the opposing team. They're going to go at him with the purpose of getting him out of the game. The Kings are an entirely different team when Cousins isn't on the floor. They become more one deminsional with almost all the scoring coming from the perimiter. Thompson was fairly effective in the last game when Howard wasn't on the floor. But by and large, we have one low post threat and its Cousins.
 
The Morning After: DeMarcus Cousins fights the urge to reach


The message has been consistent from everyone to DeMarcus Cousins when it comes to fouls.

"Stop reaching," Cousins said. "Every time I see them hold the ball out I've just got to go for it. That's something I've got to continue to work on and stop picking up the cheap fouls."

Foul trouble kept Cousins out for a significant part of the fourth quarter in Sunday's 104-97 loss to the Orlando Magic.

Cousins picked up his fifth foul with 6:53 left in the third quarter. He didn't go back into the game until there was 4:48 left in the game.


Fouls were a problem as a rookie and continue to be for Cousins, who is averaging 4.9 fouls per game, most in the NBA.

Cousins realizes he has to keep fouls at a minimum.

With Chuck Hayes out with a dislocated shoulder, the Kings only have three bigs. And of the three, Cousins is the only one the team runs plays for. Cousins had 16 points and 10 rebounds Sunday, but could have had more and possibly fouled out Dwight Howard if he didn't pick up the cheap fouls.

*Howard has had his problems with officiating in the past and offered this advice to Cousins:

"I just told him to not to get into it with the referees. I said learn from me. Learn from somebody that's got on the wrong side of the refs and it's cost him a lot of money with technical fouls and stuff like that. I told him that you don't want to have a reputation with the refs and to stay off of them as much as possible. We're not going to get the calls that we want because we are big guys. I told him to just keep playing. You don't want to get that reputation. I said learn from me. He said 'OK.' He was just trying to get in my head. I know that but I just want him to just play basketball and be great."

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2012/01/the-morning-aft-9.html#storylink=cpy
 
bajaden said:
Its called a habit. A learned reaction! We operate off of learned reflex and muscle memory. There's a reason a golf pro would rather teach someone thats never touched a golf club, than someone thats played for 10 years. Old habits are hard to break, and it takes serious commitment to do so. Its not about being stupid, or being immature, or anything else other than having learned bad habits, and trying to replace those habits with better alternatives.

I'm sure there's no one on the planet that wants to stop getting silly fouls more than Cousins. He also happens to be a very aggressive player, which doesn't lend itself to making an easy transition. Its just going to take time and commitment. He knows what the problem is. He wants to change it. He's a smart guy, he'll figure it out..
Click to expand...

I don't agree that his continual quest to try to steal the ball from guards and picking up fouls is due to "muscle memory." Your analogy of swinging a golf club would be similar when talking about an NBA player's shooting mechanics but not picking up silly fouls. DMC simply has a choice to make. It has nothing to do with muscle memory. You're right in that he's probably been doing it his entire life so it has become a habit. He just has to show that he's mentally strong enough to make a change which I'm not sure he's capable of given his history of having mental issues.
 
LWP777 said:
I don't agree that his continual quest to try to steal the ball from guards and picking up fouls is due to "muscle memory." Your analogy of swinging a golf club would be similar when talking about an NBA player's shooting mechanics but not picking up silly fouls. DMC simply has a choice to make. It has nothing to do with muscle memory.
Click to expand...
I agree. It is an idiotically confused analogy. Reaching out to steal the ball is a choice and not something that can be attributed to "muscle memory". DMC has a choice to make first (whether to reach for the ball or not) even before his "muscle memory" factor operates in. So it does not have anything to do with muscle memory. It is like throwing dart. You make a choice first to throw the dart strongly or weakly, then the "muscle memory" helps on refining the strength.
 
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Prince_XY said:
I agree. It is an idiotically confused analogy. Reaching out to steal the ball is a choice and not something that can be attributed to "muscle memory". DMC has a choice to make first (whether to reach for the ball or not) even before his "muscle memory" factor operates in. So it does not have anything to do with muscle memory. It is like throwing dart. You make a choice first to throw the dart strongly or weakly, then the "muscle memory" helps on refining the strength.
Click to expand...

I think he meant it was Cousin's natural reaction to swipe at the ball when he see's it.
 
Glenn said:
Silly question I suppose but how do you teach a guy to quit reaching in? I suspect he has been told this over and over.
Click to expand...

Just have him run suicides for every reach in (on film review). That would stop the problem. Won't happen, obviously. But pain is a good inhibitor sometimes.
 
Still, it has nothing to do with "muscle memory". Just as LWP777 had correctly stated, DMC has a choice to make first. That is central, meaning the decision to reach for the ball has to be made up there in his brain first and not in his muscle. It is not something similar to a knee-jerk reflex or any other reflex. Muscle memory is different.
 
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Prince_XY said:
Still, it has nothing to do with "muscle memory". Just as LWP777 had correctly stated, DMC has a choice to make first. That is central, meaning the decision to reach for the ball has to be made up there in his brain first and not in his muscle. It is not something similar to a knee-jerk reflex or any other reflex. Muscle memory is different.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was muscle memory. I said I think Baja meant it was a reaction reflex like Pavlov's dog. Cuz sees the guard show the ball and his reaction is to try and get it.
 
Prince_XY said:
Still, it has nothing to do with "muscle memory". Just as LWP777 had correctly stated, DMC has a choice to make first. That is central, meaning the decision to reach for the ball has to be made up there in his brain first and not in his muscle. It is not something similar to a knee-jerk reflex or any other reflex. Muscle memory is different.
Click to expand...

I said it was a combination of developed habits, and muscle memory. If you've ever played sports, then you would know that 90% of what you do on the field or court is reflex action. Your not thinking about it, your just reacting. At least if your any good at what you do. Unfortunately, bad habits fall into that same catagory, and those habits are hard to break. I know, I've been there and done that. There are times when your hand is reaching and your brain is saying no at the same time, but its too late.

But it can be done. It just takes concentration and time to learn the right habits. Things happen in real time. And its a bang/bang type of situation. You don't have time to think about how you react in that given moment, you just react, and you react based on learned habits. Do you think a third basemen has time to think about what is the correct way to field a baseball thats coming at him at 120 miles per hour? No, he just reacts. So learning the right way to do things in the beginning, basic fundamentals, is important.
 
bajaden said:
I said it was a combination of developed habits, and muscle memory. If you've ever played sports, then you would know that 90% of what you do on the field or court is reflex action. Your not thinking about it, your just reacting. At least if your any good at what you do. Unfortunately, bad habits fall into that same catagory, and those habits are hard to break. I know, I've been there and done that. There are times when your hand is reaching and your brain is saying no at the same time, but its too late.

But it can be done. It just takes concentration and time to learn the right habits. Things happen in real time. And its a bang/bang type of situation. You don't have time to think about how you react in that given moment, you just react, and you react based on learned habits. Do you think a third basemen has time to think about what is the correct way to field a baseball thats coming at him at 120 miles per hour? No, he just reacts. So learning the right way to do things in the beginning, basic fundamentals, is important.
Click to expand...
Try reading more about "muscle memory". Again, muscle memory is not the same as reflex. Muscle memory deals more with the grade of strength of the response rather than when the response will be made (as is the case of a reflex response). When you reach for a steal, muscle memory is not in play. But when you are already in the act of stealing, then "muscle memory" comes into play to help regulate the strength of your muscle response. LWP777 is right and you are wrong. Your experience mislead you. Just read it from the books because sometimes experience is not the best way to learn higher knowledge.
 
Kingster said:
Just have him run suicides for every reach in (on film review). That would stop the problem. Won't happen, obviously. But pain is a good inhibitor sometimes.
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious?

Somehow I think Smart has a considerably better read on Cousins personality if his little dinner date with DeMarcus is any indication. The above approach would be the absolute WORST way you could try to reach a DeMarcus Cousins. He would tell you to go f yourself inside a week.

People have different personalities. A smart manager, which is what an NBA coach has to be, is one who tries to reach them according to who he's dealing with. Some guys crave discipline. Some guys crave respect. Cousins is one of the latter. Now whether he's uncoachable or not may well come down to how he responds once you give it to him. There is a two way responsibility there. But you have a roughly 0% chance of beating him into submission on it.
 
Section 101 said:
I think he meant it was Cousin's natural reaction to swipe at the ball when he see's it.
Click to expand...

Yes. baja was clear to me. It is a bad habit and it is almost as if it is a reflex developed over the years. A true reflex in medical terms means that the the stimulus causes a response without the brain being involved. "Reflex" is an improper use of a word also but it seems to me that there is but a nanosecond between what Cuz sees and what he does. Judgment unfortunately does not seem to be part of the equation.

He's a young guy and I presume this tendency will slowly disappear but as I initially said, I don't want to wait. :) Perhaps nothing can be done but with coaching staffs getting bigger and bigger, I would think after a full season there would be some change but I guess that is being overly optimistic.
 
As I think this subject is one of the more important subjects holding the Kings from moving ahead, I have another idea. I noticed that when he came out of the game after his first stint against Howard, he was gasping for breath. Ok, nothing unusual for an NBA player. BUT, and I don't have any observations to back this up, it would be intresting to chart when he fouls. Does he have a tendency to foul more often at the end of his minutes on the court and could fatigue be a factor? I'm going to watch this. If fatigue is a factor, I would say play him in shorter bursts. He could end up with more minutes but just not as many minutes on the court at once.

He always could be in better shape but the Cuz I have seen this year seems to have far more endurance than his rookie year and I applaud him for that. He is trying. Was anyone surprised that he blocked a Howard shot late in the game? I sure was but going back to the point of this specific note, he came in with only a few minutes left to go in the game so this must have been in the first 4 minutes he was on the court.

I think that no matter how we define "muscle memory" or "reflex" is a side issue from what we all want. We want a Cuz that can play 30 minutes per game and an occasional 35 minutes would make me wet my pants in happiness. His size and quickness makes him a 15 rbd per game man and he can do that in his sleep. Every extra moment the coaches spend with him can return big dividends. There is always the possibility that some playres will be jealous and see that he is getting special treatment but I suspect they all know the problem and in their own way are rooting for him. I take it Pete Carril finally is too old but he's a guy that seems to demand respect from players and seems to know a lot about big man play. We'll all miss Coachie.
 
Glenn said:
As I think this subject is one of the more important subjects holding the Kings from moving ahead, I have another idea. I noticed that when he came out of the game after his first stint against Howard, he was gasping for breath. Ok, nothing unusual for an NBA player. BUT, and I don't have any observations to back this up, it would be intresting to chart when he fouls. Does he have a tendency to foul more often at the end of his minutes on the court and could fatigue be a factor? I'm going to watch this. If fatigue is a factor, I would say play him in shorter bursts. He could end up with more minutes but just not as many minutes on the court at once.

He always could be in better shape but the Cuz I have seen this year seems to have far more endurance than his rookie year and I applaud him for that. He is trying. Was anyone surprised that he blocked a Howard shot late in the game? I sure was but going back to the point of this specific note, he came in with only a few minutes left to go in the game so this must have been in the first 4 minutes he was on the court.

I think that no matter how we define "muscle memory" or "reflex" is a side issue from what we all want. We want a Cuz that can play 30 minutes per game and an occasional 35 minutes would make me wet my pants in happiness. His size and quickness makes him a 15 rbd per game man and he can do that in his sleep. Every extra moment the coaches spend with him can return big dividends. There is always the possibility that some playres will be jealous and see that he is getting special treatment but I suspect they all know the problem and in their own way are rooting for him. I take it Pete Carril finally is too old but he's a guy that seems to demand respect from players and seems to know a lot about big man play. We'll all miss Coachie.
Click to expand...

I saw him huffing and puffing too. But he isn't the only one. I think part of the big mins for the starters is to get them in better shape down the road.
 
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