cousins don't know nothin bout what up

[Blob]

Your constant goalpost shifting with Cousins is amusing in small doses. The small doses being key.

Yes indeed, when watching those Riley grit and smash great center teams I often said to myself, "self, this cannot possibly work unless his CENTER improves his A/TO ratio!"

Career A/T ratios:

Ewing 1.0/3.0 = 0.3
Mourning 1.1/2.6 = 0.4
Hakeem 2.5/3.0 = 0.8
Moses 1.3/3.1 = 0.4
O'Neal 2.5/2.7 = 0.9
Admiral 2.5/2.4 = 1.0
Yao 1.6 to 2.7 = 0.6
Dwight 1.5 to 3.0 = 0.5

vs.

Blob's only way this can possibly work with Boogie ratio: 1.2 to 1.5 (at least!)


So yes, obviously as always with you, all Boogie has to do is be considerably better than any of the great HOF centers of the modern era, in fact 2 or 3 times as good as some of them, and then MAYBE we can have a shot at him not ****ing up a simple single scorer defensive system.

I have never goal shifted. That's your specialty. I have said Boogie needs to get over 1.0 with his assist to turnover ratio. But if you are going to make him the #1 scorer without a #2 scorer (as you postulated above) his passing efficiency needs to be even better, i.e. 1.2 to 1.5.

Your comparison to the back-to-the-basket centers from another era is irrelevant. The game was play differently then. The relevant comparison is guys from this era with similar usage rates. And all those guys including bigs like Anthony Davis have ASST:TO over 1.0. Boogie is not a classic low post center no matter how hard you want to try to make him one. He's a power player with a dynamic face-up game. Boogie is a more talented version of C-Webb who has underachieved because of his lack or patience, poise and low post moves that translates into way too many unforced turnovers.

And even C-Webb had his faults as a player, as we have discussed before, being a little shot happy with a line drive shot. Boogie has a better touch and more range. And Boogie could be, stress could be, a better passer than C-Webb if he got his head on straight (more poise, patience). Of course you conveniently leave C-Webb off of your list above who happened to have a career assist to TO ratio of 1.5.

 

[Blob]

To be honest the fact that Boog hasn't requested a trade ala Melo and Dwight tells me enough about Boog's character. If I was rotting away on this team with the talent he has I'd be pissed as hell. These little outbursts are fine to me. I cursed at the TV for a few minutes straight after the Papa pick, and I don't even play on the damn team.

Are we calling him Boog now?

 

[whozit]

So I used the wrong word. I doubt if more than two people misunderstood and you aren't one of them.

Glenn, I quoted Kingster not you. The following is what I replied to and it was regarding Vlade:

LOL! He's doing a great job at keeping those secrets!

 

[Glenn]

Glenn, I quoted Kingster not you. The following is what I replied to and it was regarding Vlade:

I said "you aren't one of them." I got it, I got it

 

[Kingsgurl]

It perpetuates an attitude of divisiveness and perception of dysfunction when the teams best player says " I have no idea what we are doing". And this is where Boogie is most comfortable, in this realm of deflection and excuse. Here's what is going to happen:

Boogie is going to be GREAT on Team USA. He is going to be hustling and engaged and unselfish and help lead the team to GOLD. This is the Boogie that Kings fans deserve! But this is not the Boogie the Kings fans have gotten.

The difference between Team USA Boogie and Kings Boogie is there is NO conflict or tension between the individual and the collective. This same attitude should pervade when he puts on the SAC uniform. Then the team can come together instead of split at the seams annually through the magnitude of his acrimonious nature and presence.

Wooo, boy, you switch tacts so often it's hard to keep up. Sometimes it's fun, like this one, where you prove exactly what people arguing with you for years have said. The conflict and the tension which has always arisen from our swirling chaos of ineptitude as a franchise IS, indeed, lacking in the Team USA environment, and he goes out there, free of that burden, and does what he is meant to do. He wants to do that HERE, he wouldn't still BE here, through all the bullcrap, if he didn't feel some sort of personal vendetta about it now. He wants us to get our crap together. Split by his acrimonious attitude? I think he has shown an amazing amount of restraint, personally. Everything gets laid at his door. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad, yet he has never asked for a trade, signed an extention with us, has shown nothing but loyalty and hope that somehow, we will. We are wasting the best talent that has ever fallen into our lap. I think Vlade has a goal and a vision to get us out of it and take advantage of it.

 

[King Baller]

I have no doubts in my mind that Papa will be another one of those busts...I know it's not fair to judge him at 19 years old, but something just doesn't seem right with him. I can't read into the future or anything, so I'd love to be proven wrong, but deep down...I have zero faith in this prospect. I will take that if Skal becomes a productive player and possibly Malachi too...Cousins number two won't even be here long term IMO.

Man! I wanted Wade Baldwin at #13 but even I cannot give the scathing review of these young rookies as you! have mercyThey teenagers

 

[King Baller]

Lets wait and see Big Papa's reaction when Draymond hits him in the groin and Steven Adams swings an elbow or two. I'm hoping he has a little neanderthal hidden away for just those moments

 

[Blob]

Wooo, boy, you switch tacts so often it's hard to keep up. Sometimes it's fun, like this one, where you prove exactly what people arguing with you for years have said. The conflict and the tension which has always arisen from our swirling chaos of ineptitude as a franchise IS, indeed, lacking in the Team USA environment, and he goes out there, free of that burden, and does what he is meant to do. He wants to do that HERE, he wouldn't still BE here, through all the bullpoopoo, if he didn't feel some sort of personal vendetta about it now. He wants us to get our poopoo together. Split by his acrimonious attitude? I think he has shown an amazing amount of restraint, personally. Everything gets laid at his door. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad, yet he has never asked for a trade, signed an extention with us, has shown nothing but loyalty and hope that somehow, we will. We are wasting the best talent that has ever fallen into our lap. I think Vlade has a goal and a vision to get us out of it and take advantage of it.

The ineptitude of the franchise, specifically the draft of 3-4 busts in a row, letting Isaiah walk for nothing and firing Malone and the hiring of a coach past his expiration date, does NOT excuse Boogie's underperformance related to conditioning, sporadic defensive effort, lack of valuing the ball, inability to develop a consistent low post move, terrible leadership, and chronic temper issues that affect him on and off the court.

These are mutually exclusive issues, especially if it is your contention that it is a player's responsibility to "stay in his lane" and do his job regardless of what is going on around him. Boogie has done his job in terms of raw production, especially last year expanding his game away from the basket, but he has not made teammates better or inspire those around him. Any fan honest and objective in their analysis I think would admit to that.

 

[dude12]

Cousins being the best center in the NBA is no excuse for his production. He should be scoring even more and he should have made Jason Thompson a better player and he should have showed Nik Stauskas how to be an NBA player and he should have helped turned Ben into an all-star because that's what leaders do, they lead and I blame Cousins for Ramon Sessions coming here and sucking the life out of the team, because if Cousins didnt whine so much, Sessions would have played better. If Cousins gave more effort he would average a triple double because that's what's expected from him, the fact he's not averaging a triple double is proof he wants out as he's slacking and just biding his time until his contract runs out.

 

[Kingsgurl]

The ineptitude of the franchise, specifically the draft of 3-4 busts in a row, letting Isaiah walk for nothing and firing Malone and the hiring of a coach past his expiration date, does NOT excuse Boogie's underperformance related to conditioning, sporadic defensive effort, lack of valuing the ball, inability to develop a consistent low post move, terrible leadership, and chronic temper issues that affect him on and off the court.

These are mutually exclusive issues, especially if it is your contention that it is a player's responsibility to "stay in his lane" and do his job regardless of what is going on around him. Boogie has done his job in terms of raw production, especially last year expanding his game away from the basket, but he has not made teammates better or inspire those around him. Any fan honest and objective in their analysis I think would admit to that.

Nice try, but all of those things do not happen in a vacuum, and some of your first paragraph isn't even based in reality. What off court issues has he EVER had? None. conditioning, he cam into camp in phenomenal condition the year he got Meningitis (at which point he could barely move, let alone 'condition' and the team promptly fired Malone and went into some sort of tail spin (AGAIN) His conditioning was not even an issue until it became a barb Ailene liked to throw out. Lack of valuing the ball? What the hell were they even running out there? How the hell are you supposed to know where someone is going to be? All that shows me is a willingness to TRY to get others involved and a pee poor execution by everyone involved (coaching)
He didn't make Jimmer or JT better? where are they now? I forget.

 

[Mass]

Looking at that starting five...yuck. This teams ceiling would be 38-40 wins tops IMO. The NBA has changed, you don't put nothing but role players around your star player and expect to make the post season. Cousins is not LeBron...this team would remind me of the Cleveland Cavaliers teams when Bron first got there, it was strictly him by himself and a bunch of role players/spacers while winning 50 games...yeah, Bron can do it. That's the only guy in the league that can win with average talent.

The 2015/16 Portland Trail Blazers kindly disagree with you.

 

[King Baller]

The ineptitude of the franchise, specifically the draft of 3-4 busts in a row, letting Isaiah walk for nothing and firing Malone and the hiring of a coach past his expiration date, does NOT excuse Boogie's underperformance related to conditioning, sporadic defensive effort, lack of valuing the ball, inability to develop a consistent low post move, terrible leadership, and chronic temper issues that affect him on and off the court.

These are mutually exclusive issues, especially if it is your contention that it is a player's responsibility to "stay in his lane" and do his job regardless of what is going on around him. Boogie has done his job in terms of raw production, especially last year expanding his game away from the basket, but he has not made teammates better or inspire those around him. Any fan honest and objective in their analysis I think would admit to that.

I think you need to point out specific examples of players around the NBA who you think fulfill your "made teammates better or inspire those around him" statement. Can you name a few por favor?

 

[Blob]

I think you need to point out specific examples of players around the NBA who you think fulfill your "made teammates better or inspire those around him" statement. Can you name few por favor?

I don't think I need to but I will. Damian Lillard is a guy his teammates love. That team went from losing four starters to having a great great season, and it is because Lillard is a rallying and cohesive force with intangibles that don't show up in the box score. In terms of raw production, Boogie vs. Damian, their numbers are comparable. But in terms of being a leader who inspires guys to be their best, there is no comparison.

 

[dude12]

Lillard is such a good leader that he willed McCollum to have a breakout season and Aminu increased his 3 point shooting % because Lillard made it happen. None of this had anything to do with Terry Stotts and the foundation he laid but everything to do with Lillard.

 

[Glenn]

The ineptitude of the franchise, specifically the draft of 3-4 busts in a row, letting Isaiah walk for nothing and firing Malone and the hiring of a coach past his expiration date, does NOT excuse Boogie's underperformance related to conditioning, sporadic defensive effort, lack of valuing the ball, inability to develop a consistent low post move, terrible leadership, and chronic temper issues that affect him on and off the court.

These are mutually exclusive issues, especially if it is your contention that it is a player's responsibility to "stay in his lane" and do his job regardless of what is going on around him. Boogie has done his job in terms of raw production, especially last year expanding his game away from the basket, but he has not made teammates better or inspire those around him. Any fan honest and objective in their analysis I think would admit to that.

There has not been a stable ownership or FO. Vlade is into his second year. There is no way the Kings are a picture of stability from players to staff. You can go back as many years as you want but in all fairness, I count this as year one. Last year Vlade was thrown into the cacophony of ideas with very little preparation. I thought he did well although the final results were not so hot, perhaps as a result of a few people he did not sign.

It is frustrating being a Kings fan and I am confused as to what Vlade is doing. Yes, he is focusing on defense but that's a flip flop from last year. I hope this year is the beginning of stability and a direction. There are no guarantees and all I can do is remain hopeful.

 

[King Baller]

I don't think I need to but I will. Damian Lillard is a guy his teammates love. That team went from losing four starters to having a great great season, and it is because Lillard is a rallying and cohesive force with intangibles that don't show up in the box score. In terms of raw production, Boogie vs. Damian, their numbers are comparable. But in terms of being a leader who inspires guys to be their best, there is no comparison.

So if Lillard played for the Kings last season sans DeMarcus Cousins you honestly believe he would have made that team play better?

I mean I am a big fan of Lillard but that situation in Portland is way different than the Kings situation. Number one being that Paul Allen has owned the Blazers since 1998. That is 28 years of ownership experience from one of the founders of Microsoft.

 

[macadocious]

18 years, but who's counting.

 

[allrightythen]

I finally got around to watching the interview and I'm not sure his "I don't really understand it" comment supposed to be a knock on the organization. Seemed to me to be trying to stay out of personnel decisions.

 

[kingsboi]

The 2015/16 Portland Trail Blazers kindly disagree with you.

Lillard had help in CJ, they were consistently scoring 20+ on a nightly basis. They were a top 5 back court duo in terms of offensive production. Right now, it's Cousins and the disinterested corpse of Rudy Gay, if he is even here come October.

 

[Gliesian]

I've always been in Cuz' corner. The only time I flinched was b/c of his draft tweet, but not so much this... He was right of course- the pick doesn't make sense if they want to win now, solely for the reason that I don't think Papagiannis is tradeable, which I admit is total conjecture. He might have been the BPA in Vlade's eyes, but that doesn't mean he can be traded for a playoff caliber player that fits our needs. Either I'm totally wrong and he can be traded, or Vlade never intended to trade him.

The reason I was upset with Cuz' tweet is because it is not welcoming. Imagine getting drafted and the most important person on your new team didn't want you there. Hopefully he doesn't take it personally, because it's not personal, but still. Just kinda sucks for the kid :/

In order for us to win it all, Cuz needs to not just be the leader, but close to a perfect leader. Luckily Joerger is the type of coach that can take some of the load off, but it is no replacement. This means Cuz needs to be very careful with what he says, even if it is trivial and only offends his colleagues with thin skin. Again, I don't think the present discussion merits the thesis of my post, but it spurred me to share.

 

[Mass]

Lillard had help in CJ, they were consistently scoring 20+ on a nightly basis. They were a top 5 back court duo in terms of offensive production. Right now, it's Cousins and the disinterested corpse of Rudy Gay, if he is even here come October.

That's not my point. My point is that nobody saw them coming at the beginning of last season. Just Lillard was back from their previous starting 5. Nobody believed they could make the playoffs, like many people here believes the Kings have no chance next year.

 

[kingsboi]

That's not my point. My point is that nobody saw them coming at the beginning of last season. Just Lillard was back from their previous starting 5. Nobody believed they could make the playoffs, like many people here believes the Kings have no chance next year.

Didn't we have the same talk about playoffs last season?

 

[KingMilz]

Lillard is such a good leader that he willed McCollum to have a breakout season and Aminu increased his 3 point shooting % because Lillard made it happen. None of this had anything to do with Terry Stotts and the foundation he laid but everything to do with Lillard.

Well he most certainly did help Aminu and McCollum look better with the way he forced teams to defend him the same can be said for guys like Harkless among other, Lillard clearly is a very solid leader when he took a bunch of no names and gave them one.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well he most certainly did help Aminu and McCollum look better with the way he forced teams to defend him the same can be said for guys like Harkless among other, Lillard clearly is a very solid leader when he took a bunch of no names and gave them one.

Did he though?

I appreciate Dame's FUness whenever he is denied an honor, but his game is not set up to particularly help others. He's a distance chucker, off his own dribble. Not a guy who creates much for teammates. Not a defender either. He's a weapon, but his impact stats don't support the idea that he was the straw and amazing leader making everything come together. That designation may well belong to the coach.

Last year Dame's +/- for them was all of +2.0.

That's not to say he's not a great player, and in his first couple of years he had higher impact stats. But there is little impact evidence of his great leaderhood being why they surprised last year. If anything, McCollum's emergence seemed to dampen Dame's impact since they had another guy with similar propensities.

 

[FaStRmAn]

I don't blame Cousins. Really I blame the entire NBA system. There is a pecking order, and unless you missed it, Sacramento is at the bottom of that pecking order. We will NEVER command the attention of high priced talented free agents. Since the league markets individuals and not teams, there will always be a huge gulf between the haves and the have nots. Small market teams will have to draft intelligently and hope they hit the jackpot and then get lucky to win during the small window they have before their talent bleeds out to other more desirable destinations.

As for the draft, the Kings did what they needed to do. Not to win now because that isn't possible in this NBA system of free agency and questionable lottery fairness. They are taking lemons and hoping to make magic lemon aid. The real talent is either locked up by big market teams or is heading for big market teams. The salary cap has not helped one bit, and in fact has created a situation that encourages "Super Teams" of high priced talented players in Major markets. If that were not the case, then the landscape would be different, but it is not. No matter what protestations the commissioner makes, this is exactly what they want. Major market dominance, with a few "Washington Generals" scattered about to present the illusion of fairness.....

I understand what the Kings are doing, but that doesn't make it any more palatable. They are working within their means. making the moves they have available to them. Hoping one of their draft picks becomes an allstar and then try to make the playoffs in that short window before it slams shut in their faces and they sink back into obscurity....

 

[fansinceday1]

Does Rudys latest interview give any merit to cousins confusion on the direction of the team?

 

[Glenn]

Does Rudys latest interview give any merit to cousins confusion on the direction of the team?

Of course. Vlade needs to pay attention to what his top two dudes are saying. Not everyone needs to be in on the plan but certainly Cuz and Rudy have paid their dues and should not be left in confusion.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think I need to but I will. Damian Lillard is a guy his teammates love. That team went from losing four starters to having a great great season, and it is because Lillard is a rallying and cohesive force with intangibles that don't show up in the box score. In terms of raw production, Boogie vs. Damian, their numbers are comparable. But in terms of being a leader who inspires guys to be their best, there is no comparison.

Oh poppycock! First of all, where is it written that Cousins has to be a leader? Who made that rule, you? Why does everyone think it's a prerequisite to be a leader if you happen to be a great basketball player, and your somehow a failure if your not. Cousins is what he is, and that happens, arguably at the moment, to be the best center in the NBA. He's not perfect! He's not Shaq or Wilt. He's Cousins! Now apparently that's not good enough for you. Fine! Anyone can set the bar wherever they want and pass judgement. As I said before, if we were talking about JT the discussion wouldn't last long. The only reason were having this discussion is because Cousins is a very very good player.

Rarely does a players achievements match everyone's expectations. If I told everyone what Cousins would achieve when he was drafted, I doubt anyone would have turned him down.. He would have been the first pick in the draft. So I'm sorry he doesn't meet your standards, but frankly, he doesn't have to. Would I like him to be better than he is? Of course I would, but I'm also a realist. I've been watching this game for too long and know that if you put any player under the microscope, you'll find flaws. I watched Wilt go through similar experiences where he put up great numbers, but couldn't win. Then one day he had the right players around him and the right coach, and wa la, he won. One player by himself has a hard time winning. Lebron is probably the only player I can think of that you could put on a bad team and he would somehow get them into the playoffs.

By the way, you have the habit of talking out of both sides of your mouth, you should have been a politician. I won't waste my time explaining it to you.

 

[bajaden]

Does Rudys latest interview give any merit to cousins confusion on the direction of the team?

You know, I read article of after article on a daily basis about Cousins or Rudy, or whomever being traded to the Celtics or Denver etc. None have any merit, and there's not much the Kings's, or Vlade can do except say nothing. And as far as I know, that's what they've been doing. I read an article today about Gay asking for a trade, and the article was written like this happened yesterday, but in truth it was based on an article in the Bee from several weeks ago, which Rudy himself said was not true.

In the article today Rudy said he hasn't talked to anyone from the Kings organization. Frankly, if it were me, I'd pick up the phone and give Vlade a call. I wouldn't have given this interview today, because I can guarantee it will be repeated time and time again nationally to show how inept the Kings are, when in fact, they haven't done anything that we know about. My guess is that all these articles about Cousins or Gay being traded come from other teams, or agents. But they get attributed to the Kings. Carmichael Dave created a perfect example of how a trade rumor starts when he was at summer league. It only took a day and the national media picked it up and ran with it. We on this forum should know better.

 

[Bricklayer]

The Cuz thing is different anyway. he knows what's going on, he just doesn't particularly agree with some of the personnel decisions, and has his eyebrows firmly raised about them taking a big project player at his position

He actually likes Joerger and the defensive focus of the offseason however.

Comparatively Rudy sounds both unmoved and uninterested. Doesn't even know who we've signed. That's really not behavior of anybody who's going to be here.