cousins don't know nothin bout what up

[funkykingston]

If the Kings were to acquire Bradley I'd essentially make him the sixth man, backing up both PG and SG. And let him start at PG while Collison is out. If the idea is to have a ball movement offense where the PG is deemphasized then I think Bradley could be the starting PG. Especially with a SG like Afflalo that handles the ball pretty well.

Bradley
Afflalo
Casspi
Cauley-Stein
Cousins

would be a very solid starting five. Lots of shooting, improved perimeter defense (especially if AA refocuses on that end), good interior defense, the ability to switch picks, outside shooting and a dominant inside presence. I'd like that a lot.

 

[twslam07]

I would have thought Vlade would have kept Cousins in the loop on the team direction. Kings first priority should be making Cousins happy so he wants to stay when he becomes a FA. I know most will hate me for saying this but the Kings have done nothing to make this team better then last season. I could see the Kings taking a step back this season. You can't expect the rookies to make a big impact and the signings of Tolliver and Temple really don't make a big impact. Tolliver and Temple are career backup players on the wrong side of 30.

I don't agree with this.

The Collison/Gay/Cousins trio last year played much better together than the Rondo/Gay/Cousins trio, so in a sense, losing Rondo actually makes us better. Rondo/Gay/Cousins w/o any other PG on the floor was +0.8 last year whereas the prior year Collison/Gay/Cousins w/o any other PG on the floor was +13.5. The "w/o any other PG" element is interesting considering Karl decided to play two PGs (Rondo/Collison) on the same floor a good chunk of the time which really hurt us (-3.1 when they were on the floor together).

Now this year, we're back to the Collison/Gay/Cousins trio without another PG who is going to force us to play a weak, two PG lineup for many minutes each game. That right there should make us better immediately. Factor in a healthy and in shape Cousins (which he is), an upgrade at SG in Afflalo (still great or elite but he's better than what we've had), some defensive/shooting roleplayers and our team should be better equipped this season.

It's an easy and lazy approach to look at the Kings last year and say they won 33 games and didn't add anyone useful therefore they will be right around 33 wins again. But anyone who understands the NBA and how it works knows there is much more that goes into it. Schemes, buy-in to what the coach is preaching, chemistry, fit, style of play, etc. You seem to be focusing on one aspect (talent acquisition) and that's what leaves your argument vulnerable.

Many of us believe we had the talent to compete last year and that Karl royally screwed things up with his rotations, schemes, style of play, alienating his best player, etc. but of course, none of that gets factored into the equation for the general NBA fan because it's complicated and too hard to quantify. Instead, people choose to ignore it and focus solely on the record last year and who they've added this year.

You're missing many pieces to the puzzle, my friend.

 

[twslam07]

Bradley was 1st team all defense last season, that's a huge honor. He's still only 25, has got better every year, is on a really nice contract, and averaged 15 ppg on a playoff team last year. Getting Bradley for Gay would be great value

And yet his team was 5.4 points better on defense with him off the floor

I'm not saying he isn't a good defender, because he is. I do think he is much better as a PG defender though given his size. Ideally, you have a PG next to him big enough to handle who can take the SG assignment with Bradley absolutely demoralizing the other team's PG on defense.

 

[DesertFox]

And yet his team was 5.4 points better on defense with him off the floor

I'm not saying he isn't a good defender, because he is. I do think he is much better as a PG defender though given his size. Ideally, you have a PG next to him big enough to handle who can take the SG assignment with Bradley absolutely demoralizing the other team's PG on defense.

Garret Temple

 

[funkykingston]

I don't agree with this.

The Collison/Gay/Cousins trio last year played much better together than the Rondo/Gay/Cousins trio, so in a sense, losing Rondo actually makes us better. Rondo/Gay/Cousins w/o any other PG on the floor was +0.8 last year whereas the prior year Collison/Gay/Cousins w/o any other PG on the floor was +13.5. The "w/o any other PG" element is interesting considering Karl decided to play two PGs (Rondo/Collison) on the same floor a good chunk of the time which really hurt us (-3.1 when they were on the floor together).

Now this year, we're back to the Collison/Gay/Cousins trio without another PG who is going to force us to play a weak, two PG lineup for many minutes each game. That right there should make us better immediately. Factor in a healthy and in shape Cousins (which he is), an upgrade at SG in Afflalo (still great or elite but he's better than what we've had), some defensive/shooting roleplayers and our team should be better equipped this season.

It's an easy and lazy approach to look at the Kings last year and say they won 33 games and didn't add anyone useful therefore they will be right around 33 wins again. But anyone who understands the NBA and how it works knows there is much more that goes into it. Schemes, buy-in to what the coach is preaching, chemistry, fit, style of play, etc. You seem to be focusing on one aspect (talent acquisition) and that's what leaves your argument vulnerable.

Many of us believe we had the talent to compete last year and that Karl royally screwed things up with his rotations, schemes, style of play, alienating his best player, etc. but of course, none of that gets factored into the equation for the general NBA fan because it's complicated and too hard to quantify. Instead, people choose to ignore it and focus solely on the record last year and who they've added this year.

You're missing many pieces to the puzzle, my friend.

Yeah, there are a a lot of moving parts this offseason and honestly talking about it doesn't fix things. Results do and those (if they happen) won't occur until the season starts.

I think from the moment Joerger was hired there was little chance of Rondo coming back. He doesn't fit what Joerger wants to do as an offense with lots of ball movement and a team that plays hard nosed defense doesn't jive with a ball dominant PG who only wants to play his way and is a sieve on defense.

So what's the point in keeping Cousins in the loop if he's going to be upset that Rondo is being let go? Understanding the team's rationale for that move isn't likely to make Boogie any happier that his "big brother" is gone.

And that's why again I don't get some people criticizing Cousins for saying he doesn't know what's going on and that he's just doing his job and letting the front office do theirs. That's exactly what he should be doing. Getting in shape, taking the notes that Joerger has undoubtedly given him and working on aspects of his game to help the team next season and trusting Vlade & co to do their job.

We'll find out in November if Boogie did his job in preparing for the season. And we'll also find out in November if Vlade, Bratz, Catanella, Beech, Peja & Joerger did a good job or not.

 

[CelticsFan]

So what's the point in keeping Cousins in the loop if he's going to be upset that Rondo is being let go? Understanding the team's rationale for that move isn't likely to make Boogie any happier that his "big brother" is gone.

Guys recruit FA's to come to their city and play now more then ever. This is especially important for small market teams. If Cousins doesn't know who the Kings are targeting he can't recruit.

 

[CelticsFan]

I don't agree with this.

It's an easy and lazy approach to look at the Kings last year and say they won 33 games and didn't add anyone useful therefore they will be right around 33 wins again. But anyone who understands the NBA and how it works knows there is much more that goes into it. Schemes, buy-in to what the coach is preaching, chemistry, fit, style of play, etc. You seem to be focusing on one aspect (talent acquisition) and that's what leaves your argument vulnerable.

You're missing many pieces to the puzzle, my friend.

I'm going to disagree with you. I think it's lazy to think adding a new coach and a couple of role players make this team a playoff team. Bottom line talent wins in the NBA always has always will

 

[twslam07]

I'm going to disagree with you. I think it's lazy to think adding a new coach and a couple of role players make this team a playoff team. Bottom line talent wins in the NBA always has always will

How so? A coach has a big impact on a team. When you go from a coach like Karl who was in the running for worst in the league right next to Byron Scott and go to a guy of Joerger's caliber, it's very reasonable to expect a big bump.

You really did not address my detailed points at all which is in fact lazy, so it doesn't surprise me that you have the opinion you do.

 

[CelticsFan]

You say it's very reasonable to expect a big bump with a new coach. Does that mean playoffs? If Sac doesn't make the playoff does that mean Joerger has failed or maybe he just didn't have talent to win?

Before Joerger took over for the Grizz they won 56 games and made the conference finals. When Joerger took over and implemented "his schemes, his preaching, style of play" etc the Grizz won less games then with Hollins. So based on your theory I guess you could say Joerger failed in Memphis

What detailed points that you made would you like me to comment on? Joerger is a good coach but lets not get him confused for some kind of all time great.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I'm going to disagree with you. I think it's lazy to think adding a new coach and a couple of role players make this team a playoff team. Bottom line talent wins in the NBA always has always will

I don't want to nitpick, but your team is basically the prime example that talent isn't always needed to win in the NBA up to a certain point.
This Celtics team is a well structured unit, that hustles on the defensive end, but it's not necessarily a very talented unit.

 

[funkykingston]

Guys recruit FA's to come to their city and play now more then ever. This is especially important for small market teams. If Cousins doesn't know who the Kings are targeting he can't recruit.

What free agents did the Kings have a reasonable chance of getting that they missed out on? Ryan Anderson?

Does Cousins even know Anderson? Is it actually a bad thing that they failed to sign Ryno to a $20 million/year contract?

Not counting guys re-signing, the two biggest free agents to sign with the Sacramento Kings in the history of the franchise are arguably 30 year old Vlade Divac and rehabilitation project Rajon Rondo.

Things might be different if the team were a contender. Then you can court difference makers and you want to roll out the red carpet. We can agree to disagree but looking at who was available this summer I don't see a single guy where I think, "well if Cousins recruited him he'd probably have signed with the Kings".

 

[CelticsFan]

What free agents did the Kings have a reasonable chance of getting that they missed out on? Ryan Anderson?

Does Cousins even know Anderson? Is it actually a bad thing that they failed to sign Ryno to a $20 million/year contract?

Not counting guys re-signing, the two biggest free agents to sign with the Sacramento Kings in the history of the franchise are arguably 30 year old Vlade Divac and rehabilitation project Rajon Rondo.

Things might be different if the team were a contender. Then you can court difference makers and you want to roll out the red carpet. We can agree to disagree but looking at who was available this summer I don't see a single guy where I think, "well if Cousins recruited him he'd probably have signed with the Kings".

I never thought I would see the day when Rondo would recruit Wade but it happened. IT recruited Horford at the All Star break, Green Curry and Klay recruited KD. Those are just a few examples. Cousins plays on team USA. I want Cousins recruiting every player on that team at every practice. Not all players are treated equal by and organization. The Kings should get on the same page with their volatile face of the franchise player

 

[funkykingston]

I never thought I would see the day when Rondo would recruit Wade but it happened. IT recruited Horford at the All Star break, Green Curry and Klay recruited KD. Those are just a few examples. Cousins plays on team USA. I want Cousins recruiting every player on that team at every practice. Not all players are treated equal by and organization. The Kings should get on the same page with their volatile face of the franchise player

One - do you have any evidence that Cousins HASN'T tried to recruit high level free agents?

Two - When the Kings when 73 games in a season I'd guess that they'll do a bit better than they are currently in attracting free agents. . .

Again, what difference making free agents were out there that Cousins could have actually helped recruit?

 

[Bricklayer]

I disagree with you. Karl won coach of the year in 12-13 that's not that long ago. It's easy to dump on Karl because of turmoil season he had here but at the end of the day he's one hell of a coach. He led the Nuggets to 9 out of 9 seasons in the playoffs before coming to the Kings. Denver hit the reset button and traded Melo and the Nuggets still made the playoffs.

Not the same coach.

Even if it were the same coach about as qualified to coach a great big as Mike D'Antoni. And of course the eternal troublemaker. In his nature.

 

[CelticsFan]

I don't want to nitpick, but your team is basically the prime example that talent isn't always needed to win in the NBA up to a certain point.
This Celtics team is a well structured unit, that hustles on the defensive end, but it's not necessarily a very talented unit.

Celtics were a 5th seed in the East and lost in the first round of the playoffs. That's about right for the talent they had. An all star in IT, all defensive player in Bradley, a two way player in Crowder and a mix of good role players.

 

[whozit]

One - do you have any evidence that Cousins HASN'T tried to recruit high level free agents?

Two - When the Kings when 73 games in a season I'd guess that they'll do a bit better than they are currently in attracting free agents. . .

Again, what difference making free agents were out there that Cousins could have actually helped recruit?

If I remember correctly, in this interview that news "organizations" are now twisting, Cousins specifically mentioned trying to get Matt Barnes for awhile. And getting him for the Kings.

 

[twslam07]

You say it's very reasonable to expect a big bump with a new coach. Does that mean playoffs? If Sac doesn't make the playoff does that mean Joerger has failed or maybe he just didn't have talent to win?

Before Joerger took over for the Grizz they won 56 games and made the conference finals. When Joerger took over and implemented "his schemes, his preaching, style of play" etc the Grizz won less games then with Hollins. So based on your theory I guess you could say Joerger failed in Memphis

What detailed points that you made would you like me to comment on? Joerger is a good coach but lets not get him confused for some kind of all time great.

It's going to be hard to make the playoffs in the West. I see us right around 500 this year which is very reasonable to expect.

Your analogy to Memphis is not a good one. You're talking about a team that was already successful and that didn't have major coaching issues. Going from an average coach to Joerger is not nearly as much of a jump from going from a terrible coach (Karl) to Joerger. What was once a disadvantage is now an advantage for us. Therefore, you would expect improvement. Is that so hard to understand?

Not to mention the entire Rondo point, upgrading SG point, and signing players who fit & complement our core roster point. Fit & chemistry gets overlooked so much these days...

 

[twslam07]

Celtics were a 5th seed in the East and lost in the first round of the playoffs. That's about right for the talent they had. An all star in IT, all defensive player in Bradley, a two way player in Crowder and a mix of good role players.

Your team complemented each other very well, you had a players coach who got the most out of his players, and a coach that preached defense.

The Kings had none of these things last year...

 

[CelticsFan]

It's going to be hard to make the playoffs in the West. I see us right around 500 this year which is very reasonable to expect.

Your analogy to Memphis is not a good one. You're talking about a team that was already successful and that didn't have major coaching issues. Going from an average coach to Joerger is not nearly as much of a jump from going from a terrible coach (Karl) to Joerger. What was once a disadvantage is now an advantage for us. Therefore, you would expect improvement. Is that so hard to understand?

Not to mention the entire Rondo point, upgrading SG point, and signing players who fit & complement our core roster point. Fit & chemistry gets overlooked so much these days...

We don't have to agree twslam07, I do like to hear others points of views. If Joerger doesn't succeed this year I won't blame it on him I will be blaming it on talent.

 

[twslam07]

We don't have to agree twslam07, I do like to hear others points of views. If Joerger doesn't succeed this year I won't blame it on him I will be blaming it on talent.

I respect your opinion and think you're pretty objective (and I was even sticking up for you in the other thread), but no way do I have my mind made up who's fault it is if we fail this year. That's where you need to keep an open mind about these types of things to make sure you don't have a biased opinion.

 

[CelticsFan]

I respect your opinion and think you're pretty objective (and I was even sticking for you in the other thread), but no way do I have my mind made up who's fault it is if we fail this year. That's where you need to keep an open mind about these types of things to make sure you don't have a biased opinion.

So if "you go from a coach like Karl who was in the running for worst in the league right next to Byron Scott and go to a guy of Joerger's caliber, it's very reasonable to expect a big bump". If the Kings don't make the jump isn't it fair to say the Kings didn't have enough talent or do you blame it on Joerger.

 

[twslam07]

So if "you go from a coach like Karl who was in the running for worst in the league right next to Byron Scott and go to a guy of Joerger's caliber, it's very reasonable to expect a big bump". If the Kings don't make the jump isn't it fair to say the Kings didn't have enough talent or do you blame it on Joerger.

Again, you can't make that determination right now. What makes you think you can? It's reasonable to expect a big bump if all other things hold constant that should hold constant.

Perhaps Cousins goes down with an injury and playoff hopes are lost. Perhaps Collison's legal issues are way worse than originally reported and he's suspended for 50 games. Perhaps Cousins continues to not trust his teammates and force bad shots with bad efficiency. Perhaps Joerger isn't the coach we thought he was and he plays ridiculous rotations. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...

There's no way you're going to get me to commit to who would be at fault without seeing what happens during the season. That's essentially the same as saying if someone is killed in a few months, who will be at fault? I have no idea. Let me see the evidence and I'll tell you who I think is at fault.

All I can do right now is make assumptions how the season will go. Right now, I'm banking on Collison's situation to not end in a large suspension. I'm banking on Cousins coming into this season focused, in shape, and ready to make sacrifices to win. I'm banking on the team buying into a coach who has a reputation for connecting with his team. Will they all happen? Maybe, maybe not. But that's where our discussion is at this point. There's little to no facts. Only probabilities.

 

[Jkbiker]

Guys recruit FA's to come to their city and play now more then ever. This is especially important for small market teams. If Cousins doesn't know who the Kings are targeting he can't recruit.

quick!! get a list of Team USA players that will be free Agents next summer , have Dave and Cuz sit down and see who we will target, and get Big Cuz busy recruiting them at Team USA this summer!!!

 

[Sac.Kings]

Cousins has somehow managed to be one of the main pieces of news on ESPN with this interview, just further re-inforcing the world's opinion on how incapable we are as a franchise (though I think the ship is finally beginning to turn around now --- which will take time). In all honesty, Cousins hasn't seen anything close to winning basketball in his entire career. Maybe he just can't recognize that we are putting together a team that fits (one identity, one goal) because he's never seen success in the NBA. In regards to the draft (Papa in particular), I can't really blame him for that shock. I do think Papa was drafted to take KK's place in the lineup, but I was one of those people who went "WHO?!? ....... you gotta be s******* me!" on draft night, so I understand where he is coming from.

Maybe him not being able to understand what's going on ends up working out alright in the end. However, I am still on the boat that says we aren't done with this offseason and I will only judge this offseason's success at the start of training camp.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ngs-draft-decisions-says-really-understand-it

 

[Bricklayer]

Cousins has somehow managed to be one of the main pieces of news on ESPN with this interview, just further re-inforcing the world's opinion on how incapable we are as a franchise (though I think the ship is finally beginning to turn around now --- which will take time). In all honesty, Cousins hasn't seen anything close to winning basketball in his entire career. Maybe he just can't recognize that we are putting together a team that fits (one identity, one goal) because he's never seen success in the NBA. In regards to the draft (Papa in particular), I can't really blame him for that shock. I do think Papa was drafted to take KK's place in the lineup, but I was one of those people who went "WHO?!? ....... you gotta be s******* me!" on draft night, so I understand where he is coming from.

Maybe him not being able to understand what's going on ends up working out alright in the end. However, I am still on the boat that says we aren't done with this offseason and I will only judge this offseason's success at the start of training camp.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ngs-draft-decisions-says-really-understand-it

There is a narrative. All things which feed the narrative will be hyped. That is really all.

 

[CelticsFan]

quick!! get a list of Team USA players that will be free Agents next summer , have Dave and Cuz sit down and see who we will target, and get Big Cuz busy recruiting them at Team USA this summer!!!

I can't tell if your mocking me or not but hey to each their own. If you don't think guys are in Cuz's ear recruiting him then I guess we have a difference of opinion.

 

[Jkbiker]

I can't tell if your mocking me or not but hey to each their own. If you don't think guys are in Cuz's ear recruiting him then I guess we have a difference of opinion.

View attachment 5747

No I am agreeing with you, the only way to get a star FA to come here is if Big Cuz does get involved. If a FA is convinced they want to come here to play with Big Cuz and Big Cuz is commited to Sacto, they may decide to come here to be part of a big two or three. The key to building a super team is getting two all-star free agent here, get in playoffs , then get another third star to sign (hopefully a little cheaper to chase a ring etc

 

[Suicide King]

There is a narrative. All things which feed the narrative will be hyped. That is really all.

Part of me his hoping Cousin's finally said " Might as well play the game" with the media and is just trolling everyone now.
Now in theory this might be bad in the sense of hurting trade value. But if you have no intentions of leaving and you and Vlade are on the same page, would be a moot point.

Just my useless ramblings though and meant in jest. (?)

In all honesty though if Cuz said " I love kittens" it would be twisted into an agenda pretzel somehow.

 

[Mike]

In a sense Cousins does have a point about not knowing what the front office is doing because our draft class is unlikely to make an immediate contribution, and did we really need another center? Not really, but there's no denying our trip of draft picks have the talent and upside to be a part of this team long term - with or without Cousins.

Could the draft have gone better? Yes if Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray or Buddy Hield fell to us but that didn't happen and our front office made the decision to trade back and acquire young upside players.

Free agency saw us bring in some veterans. None of them are really going to make other teams jealous, and frankly free agency was pretty disappointing, but our additions can play a role on the team and help us get better. They fit Joerger's style and should help the team. Of course things could have gone better, but short term vets was always more likely than big name free agents.

So overall our off season has pointed towards the future with our draft class (most likely preparing for post-Cousins era), and our free agency has pointed towards trying to compete for a 7/8th seed (unlikely, but they'll never admit that as a front office). Could things have gone better to help build a better supporting cast for Cousins? Of course, so it's understandable if Cousins is annoyed or frustrated with how things have gone, but he won't be the only player feeing that way. He just needs to get his head down and work hard, and maybe we'll surprise people and Joerger will get us on the right track.

 

[kingsboi]

On the Kings Insider podcast Ham and the other guy were saying the Kings were trying to swing a deal for Avery Bradley, with Rudy to LAC, Blake to BOS, and the 2017 Nets pick to LAC. That'd be great for us with Bradley becoming our #2 scorer.

Bradley is not a number two option...if he is, the Kings aren't making the playoffs IMO. Don't get me wrong here, I love Bradley, he is exactly what the Kings could use at the two guard...but if that trade goes through, that tells me the Kings are going to rely on Cousins scoring 30+ PPG a game in order to play for a playoff spot with a whole bunch of defenders around him..sure, the Kings defense will hold teams down but who scores when Cousins is having an off night or is suspended, injured, etc?