Could the solution to our SG problems be Eric Gordon?
- Thread starter hrdboild
- Start date
That's the thing - JT is competent, and getting back PF/C, who can produce decently enough to be a 3rd big, will cost same $5-6 million.
A competent 3rd big is good enough for a 28 win team. If we want to break this streak of mediocrity, win 50 games, and compete for a championship maybe we'll have to stop settling for competent players in our rotation and pay a little extra to get a good player instead.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And I'd beat your team with my team with Kevin 4-2 at least. Maybe 4-1.
For however many games Kevin managed to play.
Cult of Ben has to die. He's not worth it. Never has been. On the other hand he might or might not be a reasonably priced backup to a real starter with some potential to continue to improve. But going into this offseason all these guys and more could be out there in various ways:
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Kevin Martin
Wes Matthews
Lance Stephensen
Monta Ellis
Joe Johnson
Arron Afflalo
etc.
etc.
all kinds of flaws, and all kinds of experience.
King Baller
All-Star
And I'd beat your team with my team with Kevin 4-2 at least. Maybe 4-1.
For however many games Kevin managed to play.
Cult of Ben has to die. He's not worth it. Never has been. On the other hand he might or might not be a reasonably priced backup to a real starter with some potential to continue to improve. But going into this offseason all these guys and more could be out there in various ways:
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Kevin Martin
Wes Matthews
Lance Stephensen
Monta Ellis
Joe Johnson
Arron Afflalo
etc.
etc.
all kinds of flaws, and all kinds of experience.
I'm all for bringing in one of those guys and keeping Ben and Nik who are on Rookie deals as injury insurance. Heck the Kings might even have a player develop if they keep one for a couple years under the same coaching staff
And I'd beat your team with my team with Kevin 4-2 at least. Maybe 4-1.
For however many games Kevin managed to play.
Cult of Ben has to die. He's not worth it. Never has been. On the other hand he might or might not be a reasonably priced backup to a real starter with some potential to continue to improve. But going into this offseason all these guys and more could be out there in various ways:
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Kevin Martin
Wes Matthews
Lance Stephensen
Monta Ellis
Joe Johnson
Arron Afflalo
etc.
etc.
all kinds of flaws, and all kinds of experience.
Afflalo isn't even better than 22 year old McLemore this year. Ellis averages 16 shots per game and he's never been a reliable three point threat. Matthews tore his achilles. The season after Kobe tore his achilles he played 6 games. If Ben McLemore never gets any better than he was this season he'll be Danny Green. Sure these guys have experience -- but that's the problem. Other than maybe Eric Gordon and Lance Stephenson, none of the guys you mentioned is going to get any better than they are now and all are likely to decline.
It's not a cult with Ben McLemore, we just don't know where his upward trajectory is going to end up. He got better in almost every way this season partly because we afforded him the opportunity to work through his mistakes. He's also played in all 82 games last season and he's going to play in all 82 games this season and he just turned 22. Hall of Fame SG's like Mitch Richmond and Reggie Miller were still in college when they were 21. If I look at a player who's 29 and averaged 13 points and 3 rebounds for the last 4 years in a row I pretty much know who he is. Compare them to a player who average 9 and 3 on 38% shooting at age 20 then 12 and 3 on 44% shooting at age 21 and you have to wonder if they're going to continue getting better (most 21 year olds do) and average perhaps 15 and 4 on 45% shooting at age 22? That's a whole other class of player and they're still only 22. You might have another 20 point scorer in a year or two.
So maybe you do beat me 4-1 with Martin next year but the year after that I beat you 3-2 then 4-1 the year after that then 5-0 because Martin is out of the league and my guy is just entering his prime. Do young teams need veterans to compete? Yes. We have Collison, Gay, and Cousins and all three of them played very well for us this year. Ben has already reached the point where he's not holding us back. Next year he's going to be a net positive. Get a reliable veteran backup into the rotation to hedge our bets and we'll be more than fine at SG.
twslam07
All-Star
And I'd beat your team with my team with Kevin 4-2 at least. Maybe 4-1.
For however many games Kevin managed to play.
Cult of Ben has to die. He's not worth it. Never has been. On the other hand he might or might not be a reasonably priced backup to a real starter with some potential to continue to improve. But going into this offseason all these guys and more could be out there in various ways:
Eric Gordon
Danny Green
Kevin Martin
Wes Matthews
Lance Stephensen
Monta Ellis
Joe Johnson
Arron Afflalo
etc.
etc.
all kinds of flaws, and all kinds of experience.
I would go ahead and add Shumpert to that list.
I think he would be a good fit for our team. Veteran (but still young), good athlete, great defender, good ball handler, and a decent spot up shooter from three. A Collison and Shumpert backcourt would be pretty darn good defensively. Both would be able to handle the ball and dish a bit (8.9 APG per36 between both of them), both would do well in transition, and both would be able to knock down set threes to help space the floor (both are 38% from beyond the arc in catch and shoot situations). There's not much to dislike about that backcourt with Cousins and Gay also in the rotation.
There is still the question if we could lure him away from CLE (since he's restricted), but he should be a stone that we don't leave unturned.
K
KingMilz
Guest
If we were going to replace Rudy (move him elswhere) as a 2nd option I would go for Monta Ellis who has basically been a All-Star level player in Dallas and Dallas''s best player the last 2 years (Dirk making All-Star over him was horse crap). Otherwise there's really no one on that list above that's interesting other than maybe Shumpert as a back up. All those guys would earn more than Ben and all of them are pretty much other than possible cancer Sir Lance in decline. Danny Green would be interesting but it comes down to how much $$.
twslam07
All-Star
Depending on Shumpert's health, I think he could be a solid starting SG for us. He can defend, hit set shots, handle the ball, etc. As for the others on Brick's list:
Eric Gordon - certainly attainable if the Pelicans would prefer a Holiday/Evans backcourt. We'll have plenty of cap space to absorb most of his contract (assuming he opts in). Wouldn't be the best defender and would be a constant injury risk, but boy can he space the floor (48% in catch and shoot 3pt attempts - only Korver is better among SGs). We could probably move Landry in the process. Not sure if they would just do Landry for Gordon straight up. They would get about 9 mil extra in cap space to retool this year giving them roughly 20-23 mil in cap space (depending on what they do with Norris Cole). But having roughly 23 mil in cap space and a core of Holiday, Evans, Pondexter, Anderson, and Davis might be attractive to them.
Danny Green - don't think he'll be available. Spurs will be willing to shell out a lot of money to keep their Leonard and Green wing combo. I think they would prefer to move on from Duncan and Ginobli in order to keep Green.
Kevin Martin - I think he would be available as well considering Minnesota is in the middle of a rebuild. His shooting would be welcomed, but his defense would not be an upgrade at all. Not sure I'm in favor of going after him if it requires giving anything up of value. Would rather do a Landry for Gordon trade and not give up any assets.
Wes Matthews - don't think we'll get him. We would have to massively overpay (and we don't have that much cap space). Even if we did have that much cap space, it's not very wise to overpay for a player coming off of an achilles surgery. He'll most likely sign a one year deal with Portland and prove his health is not a concern and then look to be paid the next offseason.
Lance Stephensen - Definitely available, but I don't want this guy anywhere near Cousins. I would rather our SG be below average with the potential to be good rather than risk a player like Stephenson upsetting Cousins. He just seems like he is a cancer.
Monta Ellis - The fit is not there and it wouldn't be worth it to give up assets for him.
Joe Johnson - Not sure we have enough salary to send back (without losing in the trade) to absorb Johnson's deal. Would probably have to be a 3 team trade to make it work.
Arron Afflalo - He's a definite possibility. Seems attainable with our cap space and has a Karl connection. However, I see him picking up his player option and looking for his big deal the following year when the cap picks back up. In the meantime, he gets to play for a very competitive playoff team.
Have you seen Monta the second half of this season? I'd rather have Ben.
I'd rather take Green at 10mpy for the next 3 years vs. having Ben as my starting SG for the next 2. That's just me.
I'm factoring in the fact that we'll be competitive for the next few years and we'll need players who can contribute on both ends NOW. Vlade made it pretty clear he wants players who can contribute to the team now. Team needs an entire rebuild and Green is a player you should bring in if you're serious about winning and defense.
I'm factoring in the fact that we'll be competitive for the next few years and we'll need players who can contribute on both ends NOW. Vlade made it pretty clear he wants players who can contribute to the team now. Team needs an entire rebuild and Green is a player you should bring in if you're serious about winning and defense.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Been slowed by injury lately and the Rondo trade has just turned out rubbish. Prior to the All-Star break he was terrific but yeah I can't remember what injury it is (but he always plays through them) he's slowed down.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We're not going to replace Rudy. Nor would it make any sense. We have so much work to do, wasting time and assets making holes only to fill them again is silly.
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With all RFA wings are clearly off limits this year half the league would take Green at $10 mil. I'm certain, he will choose Sacramento though...
Want realistic FA help at PF or SG? Prepare for Amir Johnson/Trevor Booker (if he's waived) and Stuckey/Belinelli. 6th pick might get you better options, but RFAs are likely still off limits, so why waste such an asset on small upgrade, that might not even be such by season's end.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Since when has anything to do with the Sacramento Viveks made any sense?
I think if we realistically could trade Landry away, it would give us a ton of cap space. It would give us a real shot at a few SGs: Affalo, Matthews, Green, and Gerald Green. I don't see any SGs with PO opting out this year.
- Affalo is a wash at this point.
- Matthews would probably want to stay at Portland, but he's coming off a HUGE injury. The injury reconsiders a lot.
- Green won't be a player that many teams will target for at 10million. There are limited amount of wings which means most wings are already taken by teams..
- Green alone, is not worth 10-11million in the NBA. However, for desperate teams like us with a gapping hole at SG, it's what we'd pay. Maybe the Spurs too if they really wanted to make sure they can retain him.
Gerald Green is a streaky shooter. I see him bringing extra bench power.
At PF? Now that's where things get sucky.... Realistic options?
- Lopez Brothers- Will take a ton of convincing, but I don't see why they wouldn't consider Sac.
- Tyson Chandler- On the decline and may be in hunt for another ring, but I can see him actually coming to Sac and helping Cuz
- Wright- Solid overall PF
- Asik- Good defensive anchor, but offense won't fit
- Thad Young- Nice option on offense, but doesn't offer any defense.. if any.
- Bass- Eh
- Johnson- Eh
- Davis- Shotblocker who'll get around 4-7. Might be worth it
- Jerekbo- Stretch 4 cheap
GoodOldDouwe
G-League
When healthy he actually would a good fit. Amir Johnson is a good defender, a solid rebounder and an efficient offensive player. Only think that will probably scare a lot of teams away are his ankles, he just can't seem to stay healthy.
He missed 18 games last year and 21 games this year so the injury issue is still significant. That alone makes Eric Gordon too risky to be counted on as a starter I think, even if his performance when healthy is better than Ben's right now. Off the bench though, we have options if he only plays 60 games a year. You really only need 3 guards, 3 bigs, and 2 wings to set up a decent rotation. The rest of the players on the roster are there for injury depth and match-up related versatility. Eric Gordon looks like a solid 3rd guard to me when he's healthy because you know he can nail spot-up threes and you can also ask him to get you 15 points off the bench if one of the starters is struggling. When he's injured you play your backup PG more minutes instead and hopefully there's a wing player on your 13 man roster who can play some SG the rest of the time. Omri Casspi is a decent emergency fill-in at SG for instance.
Starting Five
Bench
If he can play like he played for the Clippers, then do a deal.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Considering the hefty amount of money Eric Gordon is receiving for not doing much of anything, I'd rather get another two guard who knows his role and will defend and shoot when open. There are a number of guards that are better than Ben is...question is which one do the Kings go after, if they were to go after one.
Yes but the contract expires after next season and he'll get a new one commensurate with the player he is now, not the 22 year old superstar he looked like when he signed that max offer sheet. The salary issue and the injury issue are the reason why he's obtainable. I really don't think a Danny Green or Aaron Afflalo helps us much at all. They're stopgap vets and they're going to end up chewing up cap space while their careers peter out like Landry and Thompson are doing right now. All Sacramento ever does is waste money on mid-level free agents and then we wonder why we can't make the playoffs and our roster is full of guys nobody else wants.
Also, your last sentence is over-simplifying the situation to the point of actually being misleading I think. Sure there are 20 or so guards out there who are better than Ben right now. How many of them are a good bet to outperform Ben over the next three years? That's a better question. Eliminate the superstars and young building blocks we can't get and who's left? Monta Ellis, JJ Reddick, CJ Miles, JR Smith. How much of them are better than Ben by a significant enough margin to justify the extra cost? Ben is under contract already for 3 million next year and 4 million the year after that. You're not going to get a veteran for 3.5 million a year who outperforms the season Ben just had. Then you look at the fact that Ben just turned 22 and is continually getting better and the gap between what you're actually getting for your investment (projected improvement over retaining Ben as the starter) and what you're paying becomes even bigger. The only way it makes sense at all is if you pay through the nose for a big upgrade like Jimmy Butler or Victor Oladipo.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I'm not interested in Afflalo and Danny Green will be asking for too much money in the open market or resigning with San Antonio. You bring up guys like JR Smith, Monta, JJ and CJ...they are all chuckers as far I'm concerned and none of them play defense. But then you go and look at some of the rosters and there are players like DeMarre Carroll and Thabo Sefalosha getting starting positions and you can get away with doing that if they are either respectable shooters or respectable defenders to counter their deficiencies elsewhere. I'm by no means advocating for Ben to be let go, he has made strides but realistically the Kings are not going to pick up another young stud at SG so the question now is do they want to continue to let Ben grow with the core pieces in place or look for a veteran SG on the downside of his career.
Looking for a playmaking 2 guard through this list http://bkref.com/tiny/7m6Sp, only FA option appears to be Stuckey. He's only an average defender though. Pacers seem to be willing to pay up to MLE (don't have Bird rights), so Kings can certainly be a players with ability to go above MLE and offer starting/spot starting.
KingsCitizen
Starter
I'm not high on Gordon so pass.
Instead, consider a full revamp at SG by bringing in an old-timer and make a trade a with the Wolves.
My call is Kmart/Payne/Dieng for Landry/McLemore
Then we draft Winslow and trade Nik for another vet big or PG.
So what we get, a scorer back-up vet SG with really good ties with Sac in Martin, a young cheap athletic stretch four in Payne, a young defensive back C/PF in Dieng, and an NBA ready defensive minded rookie as starting SG in Winslow.
As for the wolves, they can continue to run and gun and dunk with Ben starting over Lavine. And they get a vet to provide low-post scoring and a good citizen in Landry. They will still get another big either Towns or Okafor though in the draft so they may not be too attached to either Dieng or Payne to ask for more than Landry.
We end up with:
C - DMC/Dieng
PF - ?/Payne/JT
SF - Gay/?/?
SG - Winslow/Martin/?
PG - Collison?/?/?
Instead, consider a full revamp at SG by bringing in an old-timer and make a trade a with the Wolves.
My call is Kmart/Payne/Dieng for Landry/McLemore
Then we draft Winslow and trade Nik for another vet big or PG.
So what we get, a scorer back-up vet SG with really good ties with Sac in Martin, a young cheap athletic stretch four in Payne, a young defensive back C/PF in Dieng, and an NBA ready defensive minded rookie as starting SG in Winslow.
As for the wolves, they can continue to run and gun and dunk with Ben starting over Lavine. And they get a vet to provide low-post scoring and a good citizen in Landry. They will still get another big either Towns or Okafor though in the draft so they may not be too attached to either Dieng or Payne to ask for more than Landry.
We end up with:
C - DMC/Dieng
PF - ?/Payne/JT
SF - Gay/?/?
SG - Winslow/Martin/?
PG - Collison?/?/?
Martin is a sieve defensively, so for Kings, who have enough scoring in the starting lineup, he's a 3-D option.
Payne is 24 already, so taking on him as a project looks kinda funny, especially when he's such a pathetic defender.
Dieng is strictly a center, and for now Kings have a good backup for Boogie.
Payne is 24 already, so taking on him as a project looks kinda funny, especially when he's such a pathetic defender.
Dieng is strictly a center, and for now Kings have a good backup for Boogie.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
that's hard to imagine. People know what he is and isn't. Good roleplayer, but $10mil you are looking for some kind of star and everybody knows better on that one.
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