Could Fox and *Lonzo* Ball coexist?

#1
Is there any way it could feasibly work? 2 good defenders 1 with superhero speed the other with a hairpin trigger to move the rock. Thoughts?
 
#2
Is there any way it could feasibly work? 2 good defenders 1 with superhero speed the other with a hairpin trigger to move the rock. Thoughts?
My thought is that if Fox and Ball don't improve as shooters, then whatever team hypothetically has both would need to surround them with them 3 A+ shooters at all times, or they would be in the lottery.
 
#3
Yes.

Can stagger them on the court if shooting is just too much of an issue. On defense, both are interchangeable and can guard the 1/2. Ball's passing would be contagious.
 
#6
Yeah, I'd absolutely love it. Two young beasts in transition, 48 minutes of elite creation, real defensive upside from both of them. Would be similar stylistically to Cp3 Harden with Lonzo being "Cp3" and Fox being "Harden". Especially now that Lonzo seems to have figured out his shot, getting a creator of his magnitude could be crucial to unlocking Bagley.
 
#7
Yeah, I'd absolutely love it. Two young beasts in transition, 48 minutes of elite creation, real defensive upside from both of them. Would be similar stylistically to Cp3 Harden with Lonzo being "Cp3" and Fox being "Harden". Especially now that Lonzo seems to have figured out his shot, getting a creator of his magnitude could be crucial to unlocking Bagley.
Lol Why stop there they’d be like Jordan/Pippen
 
#8
Yeah, I'd absolutely love it. Two young beasts in transition, 48 minutes of elite creation, real defensive upside from both of them. Would be similar stylistically to Cp3 Harden with Lonzo being "Cp3" and Fox being "Harden". Especially now that Lonzo seems to have figured out his shot, getting a creator of his magnitude could be crucial to unlocking Bagley.
Jamal I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol
 
#12
It would probably take a late 1st to get N.O to bite but I think Fox&Ball MIGHT be a nice backcourt.
A late first for Ball? I must be higher on him than most but I don’t think NO even answers the phone if that’s the offer. Ball is 22 years old and has been pretty good since coming into the NBA. I would be shocked if a team could have Ball for a late first. IMO file this under far fetched idea
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#13
A late first for Ball? I must be higher on him than most but I don’t think NO even answers the phone if that’s the offer. Ball is 22 years old and has been pretty good since coming into the NBA. I would be shocked if a team could have Ball for a late first. IMO file this under far fetched idea
Seems like Ball is another guy getting penalized for the players that he’s not. With Tatum, Bam, Fox, and a handful of other guys picked after him looking like primary options/stars, Lonzo goes largely unnoticed as a pretty good complimentary player/solid defender, who’s actually fixed some of his shooting woes of late. Is he the second coming of Magic like the Lakers tried to make him out to be when they drafted him? No. But he’s not the bust/broken player some say that he is (I am partially guilty on that front).
 
#16
A late first for Ball? I must be higher on him than most but I don’t think NO even answers the phone if that’s the offer. Ball is 22 years old and has been pretty good since coming into the NBA. I would be shocked if a team could have Ball for a late first. IMO file this under far fetched idea
Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how N.O values him and his upcoming RFA. Adding another 1st to their treasure chest of picks could have value to them.
 
#17
Seems like Ball is another guy getting penalized for the players that he’s not. With Tatum, Bam, Fox, and a handful of other guys picked after him looking like primary options/stars, Lonzo goes largely unnoticed as a pretty good complimentary player/solid defender, who’s actually fixed some of his shooting woes of late. Is he the second coming of Magic like the Lakers tried to make him out to be when they drafted him? No. But he’s not the bust/broken player some say that he is (I am partially guilty on that front).
True but those kind of guys get signed with the mid-level exemption or traded for a mid to late first/ couple seconds.
 
#20
Curious would you take a late first or a couple of seconds for Bagley? I'm down on Bagley and no way would I take a late first for him.
I think they are different situations. Bagley hasn’t played even 82 games yet while Lonzo is finishing his 3rd year. Bagley, beyond being injury prone, is still largely an unknown.
 
#21
What position in the draft would it take for you to trade him? Would you trade him for the 15th pick?
No I wouldn't trade Bagley for the 15th pick this year. Yes he gets hurt but I'm still holding out hope he can help you more then what the 15th pick can do for you. If you pick around 15 usually if you get a role player there you're doing pretty good. I still have hope Bagley will be more than a role player and I'm willing to take the gamble. Last year Sekou Doumbouya was picked 15th. Nice young player maybe he turns into something but I'm still taking Bagley. 2018 Troy Brown went 15th. Nice player, I probably like him more than most but I'm still sticking with Bagley
 
#23
I'm not sure I would trade Bagley for the #1 pick in this draft. I don't even know who I would take with the #1 pick in this draft, but I'm pretty sure if Bagley were in it, it would be Bagley.
I'd easily trade Bagley for #1 in this draft. Doubt any other team holding the #1 pick would gift us that type of deal though. You're also getting 4 years of rookie scale cost; whereas, Bagley has 2 years left on his rookie contract.

As for who I would take with the #1 pick, the more research I do & more tape I watch Killian Hayes stands out as the clear top pick for me. I don't see him at the top of many mocks (which is interesting) so maybe I'm missing something. However, I think he has star potential and a reasonable path to achieve his star potential.

  • He's a great playmaker/passer (better than Fox) & is great in the PnR
  • His ball-handling is solid, but he definitely needs to improve his off hand
  • He's a great shooter (has good shooting potential). Form looks fine and a pretty quick release (39% from three on 41 attempts & 91% from FT on 22 attempts)
  • He's crafty with his moves. Doesn't rely on just athleticism. Step back is very good
  • Defensive potential is solid as well
  • He's 6'5" with a 6'8.25" wingspan which is excellent size for a PG. I've seen his weight reported anywhere from 176-216 lbs (which is odd) but I would guess he's 190-200 but he looks to have a good frame that could add muscle

He obviously plays the same position as Fox, but at this point, I'm in the business of drafting BPA. Plus his height/length makes me think he can share the floor with Fox pretty easily.
 
#24
I'm not sure I would trade Bagley for the #1 pick in this draft. I don't even know who I would take with the #1 pick in this draft, but I'm pretty sure if Bagley were in it, it would be Bagley.
Agreed, I mean the injuries have been brutal but his talent is there. I like to remind people that in his last game vs Miami before he got hurt earlier in the year, I felt he outplayed Bam Adebayo in one of his first games at Center. Went for 15 and 15 and played surprisingly solid defense. There Is a boatload of talent there. Just need to stay on the floor obviously
 
#25
Why would anyone trade for Bagley at this point. It's just too bigger risk. And he's shown fairly limited ability for a #2 pick.

The warriors will probably move that #2 pick this year.

I don't know anything about this draft but I've not heard it to be a very strong one. May be wrong.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#26
It would probably take a late 1st to get N.O to bite but I think Fox&Ball MIGHT be a nice backcourt.
Ball is likely to go in the top three, and if he had just a decent 3 pt shot, he's go number one. He's a better player than his brother. Your not going to get him by offering a late 1st rd pick. That said, I don't see him and Fox together as a good fit. I suppose you could make it work, but the truth is, both players are most effective with the ball in their hands. And there's only one ball. Moving Ball to SG is not a good move because he's not a good shooter, and other than his shot, one of the big questions about him is whether he can defend at the NBA level, so I don't see him as a 3 and D player.
 
#27
Ball is likely to go in the top three, and if he had just a decent 3 pt shot, he's go number one. He's a better player than his brother. Your not going to get him by offering a late 1st rd pick. That said, I don't see him and Fox together as a good fit. I suppose you could make it work, but the truth is, both players are most effective with the ball in their hands. And there's only one ball. Moving Ball to SG is not a good move because he's not a good shooter, and other than his shot, one of the big questions about him is whether he can defend at the NBA level, so I don't see him as a 3 and D player.
Sorry I should have specified but I'm talking about Lonzo.
 
#28
I'd easily trade Bagley for #1 in this draft. Doubt any other team holding the #1 pick would gift us that type of deal though. You're also getting 4 years of rookie scale cost; whereas, Bagley has 2 years left on his rookie contract.

As for who I would take with the #1 pick, the more research I do & more tape I watch Killian Hayes stands out as the clear top pick for me. I don't see him at the top of many mocks (which is interesting) so maybe I'm missing something. However, I think he has star potential and a reasonable path to achieve his star potential.

  • He's a great playmaker/passer (better than Fox) & is great in the PnR
  • His ball-handling is solid, but he definitely needs to improve his off hand
  • He's a great shooter (has good shooting potential). Form looks fine and a pretty quick release (39% from three on 41 attempts & 91% from FT on 22 attempts)
  • He's crafty with his moves. Doesn't rely on just athleticism. Step back is very good
  • Defensive potential is solid as well
  • He's 6'5" with a 6'8.25" wingspan which is excellent size for a PG. I've seen his weight reported anywhere from 176-216 lbs (which is odd) but I would guess he's 190-200 but he looks to have a good frame that could add muscle

He obviously plays the same position as Fox, but at this point, I'm in the business of drafting BPA. Plus his height/length makes me think he can share the floor with Fox pretty easily.
I'm with you on Hayes. I know a lot of people disagreed with you on trading Buddy for the 6th pick but if Hayes was still on the board when Atlanta goes to pick, I'd be making that phone call. The kid shows all the signs of what wins NBA games these days. His only real knock is that we don't know if he can hit the 3 with any regularity. If he can't then he is unplayable next to Fox and one of the two would have to be traded.

We really need someone who can make others on the team better.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#29
Ball is likely to go in the top three, and if he had just a decent 3 pt shot, he's go number one. He's a better player than his brother. Your not going to get him by offering a late 1st rd pick. That said, I don't see him and Fox together as a good fit. I suppose you could make it work, but the truth is, both players are most effective with the ball in their hands. And there's only one ball. Moving Ball to SG is not a good move because he's not a good shooter, and other than his shot, one of the big questions about him is whether he can defend at the NBA level, so I don't see him as a 3 and D player.
Sorry I should have specified but I'm talking about Lonzo.
I'm going to clarify that in the thread title.

I would apply Baja's reasoning to Lonzo as well, however, I don't think a late first gets him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#30
Why would anyone trade for Bagley at this point. It's just too bigger risk. And he's shown fairly limited ability for a #2 pick.

The warriors will probably move that #2 pick this year.

I don't know anything about this draft but I've not heard it to be a very strong one. May be wrong.
Well I disagree with you. I'd bet the farm that there would be more than one team willing to take a flyer on Bagley, but that's beside the point. Truth is, we still don't know what we have in Bagley. Bagley's problem is that everyone is comparing him to Doncic. A fairer comp would be a player taken right behind him, Jaren Jackson. Let's compare both players rookie years, which is really all we have to go on with Bagley.

Jackson: 26:07 mpg - 13.8 ppg - 50.6% fgp - 35.9% 3pp - 4.6 rpg - 1.4 blk's per game
Bagley: 25:17 mpg- 14.9 ppg - 50.4% fgp - 31.3% 3pp - 7.6 rpg - 1.0 blk's per game

Overall, they're fairly equal, with each players strength showing up statistically. Jackson was known for being a big that could shoot the three and block shots where Bagley was known for being a very good rebounder. Lets look at a player that many on the forum are in love with, Myles Turner in his rookie year.

Turner: 22:47 mpg - 10.3 ppg - 49.8% fgp - 21.4% 3pp - 5.5 rpg - 1.4 blk's per game

I think we can safely say that Bagley had a better rookie year. How about Turner this season, his fifth.

Turner: 29:27 mpg - 12.1 ppg - 45.7% fgp - 34.4% 3pp - 6.6 rpg - 2.1 blk's per game

Bagley's stats hold up quite well compared to either Turner or Jackson, and both players are highly regarded, especially Jackson, who some consider a star already. So I think it's a wee bit early to come to any conclusions on how good a player Bagley will be. His only problem is staying on the floor, not talent.