Could Donte Greene Be "The Next Peja (GOOD and BAD PEJA)"

[Bricklayer]

he will prob be our 2nd best rebounder next to Thompson. Greene avg over 7. and i think around 1.3 blocks.

I had actually intended that to say glass/defense, but the repsonse would be the same -- that was college. By all rights he should be capable of being solid in both aspects in the pros, but much will depend how serious he is about being special, or whether he's satisified just to score and have his posse/hangers on all telling him how great he is.

 

[Entity]

I had actually intended that to say glass/defense, but the repsonse would be the same -- that was college. By all rights he should be capable of being solid in both aspects in the pros, but much will depend how serious he is about being special, or whether he's satisified just to score and have his posse/hangers on all telling him how great he is.

Is he perceived as that type of player? The guy with 6 or 7 buddies folloing around and boosting his ego telling him how he is the best. Basically an egomaniac.

 

[Bricklayer]

Is he perceived as that type of player? The guy with 6 or 7 buddies folloing around and boosting his ego telling him how he is the best. Basically an egomaniac.

don't know enough about him to say -- I don't think he was coming into school, but developed some bad selfish habits on the court as the year went along.

 

[Entity]

That could be because of the coaches putting all the pressure on him to be the scorer. They did the same to Carmello.

 

[Spike]

That could be because of the coaches putting all the pressure on him to be the scorer. They did the same to Carmello.

Well he definitely had potential coming into Syracuse:

In the class of 2007, ranked as the No. 7 overall recruit and No. 2 power forward by scout.com and as No. 10 overall and the No. 3 small forward by rivals.com.

I do question his shot selection, especially given Big East play. I am also quite familiar with Boeheim's coaching at Syracuse, and I don't think Greene was asked to "carry the team," as others have mentioned.
He was on the all Big-East team, and he did have more threes than McNamara, but he also took a lot more shots to get there.

That being said, Theus seems like a guy who's not afraid to break a rookie of his bad habits. Or at least try.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Interesting thought I had: Being that he's 19, and listed at 6'9 (some say 6'10), what do we do if this guy grows a couple of inches? Could he still play SF at 6'11 (or 7'0)? Does he then become the PF and Thompson the SF?

 

[Gary]

There were issues with him not liking the coaching staff at Syracuse, and him basically turning into a chucker because of how he felt. I know it's not an excuse, but he's still a kid and if I remember myself at 19 I was a bit of a jerk when things didn't go my way

He's got top 10 potential though and that's why I am sure Petrie picked him up. He has the ability to create a TON of mismatch problems. Not many SFs have his type of mobility and height. He can definitely turn into a Rashard Lewis type player in a couple years.

As to Larry's comments. I don't think his rebounding will translate into the NBA very well. A lot of his rebounds came off his own misses when he was throwing up a long shot, and it bouncing high off the rim back to him. Put him into a more settled down pro game and I wouldn't be surprised if he averaged 5-6 a game at best.

 

[Gary]

Interesting thought I had: Being that he's 19, and listed at 6'9 (some say 6'10), what do we do if this guy grows a couple of inches? Could he still play SF at 6'11 (or 7'0)? Does he then become the PF and Thompson the SF?

His game screams SF. I don't think you put him into the PF spot unless you play him like Orlando does with Hedo/Lewis combo. His rebounding wont be great in the NBA. But his post game consists of a lot of turn around fade aways and layups from mismatches. He's not strong enough (yet) to play a consistent post game. Even if he turns out to be taller than Thompson I would still stick Thompson at PF, and Greene at SF.

I will tell you this though.. If Greene grows another couple inches and if he develops into the SF of the future the frontcourt of 6'11 Greene, 6'11 Thompson, and 7'0 Hawes sure would scare the hell out of anyone trying to defend them. They all have good offensive games, and they all can handle the ball pretty well.

 

[bajaden]

There were issues with him not liking the coaching staff at Syracuse, and him basically turning into a chucker because of how he felt. I know it's not an excuse, but he's still a kid and if I remember myself at 19 I was a bit of a jerk when things didn't go my way

He's got top 10 potential though and that's why I am sure Petrie picked him up. He has the ability to create a TON of mismatch problems. Not many SFs have his type of mobility and height. He can definitely turn into a Rashard Lewis type player in a couple years.

As to Larry's comments. I don't think his rebounding will translate into the NBA very well. A lot of his rebounds came off his own misses when he was throwing up a long shot, and it bouncing high off the rim back to him. Put him into a more settled down pro game and I wouldn't be surprised if he averaged 5-6 a game at best.

You beat me to it. I was going to say that he followed his own shot a lot in college and thats where a lot of his rebounds came from. Nothing wrong with that, just won't be as easy in the NBA. He does have a little jump hook shot he's used down low also. He has all the ability. If he's coachable, then he should be a good player in the future.

Also, whereas Thompson grew during his junior and senior years, its not impossible that Greene might grow a little bit more

 

[CruzDude]

I think a bunch of fans have forgotten that Peja had 4 or 5 years of pro ball in the Euro leagues before he ever set foot in a Kings game. When he was drafted he was the single best pure shooter in Europe and was 6-10. He was never a dribble penetrator but was one of the best moving without the ball and the quickest draw in the west (and east) for stop & pop as well as the catch & shoot from the 3. He won the 3-pt contest twice.

Those shooting attributes are not Greene's forte. He has a much more complete potential game than Peja with his rebounding and shot blocking abilities. And with only one year of college ball its hard for anyone to say what he will or won't do in one, three or 4 years. I'm happy as hell we have him and I hope he can live up to the hype. The same for Jason and Spencer. Then imagine where the Kings can go with the right type of Vets around to help them..... vets like BJax, Brad and even Mikki.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

He's got top 10 potential though and that's why I am sure Petrie picked him up. He has the ability to create a TON of mismatch problems. Not many SFs have his type of mobility and height. He can definitely turn into a Rashard Lewis type player in a couple years.

.

I think this is the key. I was very anti-Donte with our draft pick because of our need at PF (and all the big men available) and his gaping downside. However, already having Jason Thompson on board, Greene is a tremendous gamble who certainly could be a dominant scorer. What other aspects of his game develop and if he ever becomes a complete players is anybody's guess.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

A few people have mentioned his great start and poor finish. Interesting blurb from a pre-draft article on Draftexpress.com concerning winscores of different college players. Donte finished with a negative score, but actually posted a very respectable 5.1 in the first part of the season.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-Win-Scores-NBA-Draft-Preview-2932/

Donte Greene: -0.6 PAWS/40

While Greene had an excellent start last season, he actually hurt his team overall with a sour second half, winding up with a negative PAWS/40. Considering Syracuse’s fast paced play, this assessment may even understate the damage.
If Greene returns to his early form, posting a 5.1 PAWS/40, he’s well worth a lottery pick. If his second half is more indicative of his skill, then picking Greene is a guaranteed losing proposition. The determining factor will likely be Greene’s FG%, as he shot 42% at Syracuse.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

One more interesting draft tid bit from draft express on Greene. This came in their draft report card as they were praising the Rockets for picking Greene:

"That’s what we call value…particularly Greene, who could have gone 15 spots higher had he not behaved poorly in a workout with the New Jersey Nets (something that reportedly spread quickly around the league)."

This continues the theme of him being a much higher talent than his pick. However, I am curious what happened in NJ. Although, Petrie has never shied away from players who lacked a bit of maturity but who he did not perceive to have major character issues.

 

[jthompson1]

Ok i'm sick of all the stuff about him not behaving and hurting his team and all that. I say we let the kid play and show us what he's got then we make judgements on him.

 

[Spike]

Ok i'm sick of all the stuff about him not behaving and hurting his team and all that. I say we let the kid play and show us what he's got then we make judgements on him.

I don't think that anyone has passed judgment on Greene at all. I think we're all gathering information on the kind of player he'll be, and unfortunately, there's a lot of negative information out there.
For every negative comment that's been put up, there's been just as much outlining the potential that exists and the hope for maturity. Either way, we'll be able to see what kind of NBA player he is in a few short months.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think that anyone has passed judgment on Greene at all. I think we're all gathering information on the kind of player he'll be, and unfortunately, there's a lot of negative information out there.
For every negative comment that's been put up, there's been just as much outlining the potential that exists and the hope for maturity. Either way, we'll be able to see what kind of NBA player he is in a few short months.

true, but I do think this is one of those cases where first impressions are only going to tell so much. Very young kid, and has a lot of growing to do both on and off the court. Suspect we'll see flashes of brilliance, flashes of immaturity, and have people coming down every which way on the issue. But no matter how it goes this year (unless we suffer a freakish string of injuries leaving him a starter or some such), it won't be the book on his career.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Donte Greene "behaved badly" in his workout with the New Jersey Nets. There was a report he was held over due to bad weather and some of the their staff got an extended up close feel for him. Although I don't recall all the specific details once he got on the court they were less impressed. Maybe it was just a bad day or bad omen as far as the Nets were concerned since teenager Donte had been jetting all over the place for various NBA team workouts, some stops better than others. It was said he dropped 15 spots in the draft as a result of his immaturity most evident in the New Jersey debacle. I recall reading more about it at clutchfans.net since the Rockets ended up with him before pending trade to the Kings. Also, some of the "behaved badly" stuff was on draftexpress.net.

I hope trade is finalized August 14 because the fact of the Kings getting two first round picks this year and having two more next season can't be all bad

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Donte Greene "behaved badly" in his workout with the New Jersey Nets. ... Although I don't recall all the specific details once he got on the court they were less impressed.

http://sportstwo.com/forums/Its-World-Domination-t118039.html

For what it's worth, I got the following quote from the above NJ Nets site (sourcing purposes only, no additional info at the link):

Jonathan Givony in grading each team’s performance in the draft suggested that the Nets should have taken Donte Greene over Anderson at #21. He adds: “one of the reasons he even fell here was due to the fact that he got into an argument with a member of their coaching staff in a private workout.”

What we are told is that the coach in question was Brian Hill and that Hill repeatedly warned Greene to cut the trash talk during the workout on June 12. Greene was supposedly going after Anthony Randolph hot and heavy. Hardly an argument, though.

 

[bajaden]

Who knows, a small incident could end up being a blessing for us. Or not. He's just a young kid with a lot talent, and we won't know for a couple of years what we've really got. I just hope everyone is patient with him and all the the other young players on the team. I would suggest that everyone try to look for the good things you see, and do your best to ignore the bad things, because there are going to be plenty of them.

I remember Gerald Wallace saying when he was drafted, that he couldn't wait to guard Kobe. I'm sure he had visions of shutting him down. I also remember they're first encounter. He learned a lesson. You just don't go from, one year removed from highschool, to the NBA, and not make a lot of mistakes. And if you do, well, then we just made the trade of the year.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Another interesting take on the Artest trade from basketballprospectus.com. I'll just post the snipet on his take from the Kings end, the part on Greene is interesting too:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=395

The deal works for the Kings too. The time had come to move on and part ways with Artest, making a trade inevitable. The biggest thing the Kings get out of this deal is the opportunity for their young perimeter players--Kevin Martin, John Salmons and Francisco Garcia--to step into larger roles. Now, Martin is unquestionably the man in Sacramento, a role he's earned with his efficient scoring. Salmons steps into a full-time starting role with Garcia backing up both swing positions.

Given that center Brad Miller is the only veteran player left in Sacramento, it made sense for the Kings to continue to build with youth rather than flip Artest in a challenge trade for a player like Lamar Odom. Could they have done better than Greene and what figures to be a first-round pick in the 20s? Maybe. At the deadline, the talk was Artest for Denver's Linas Kleiza, a superior prospect. Still, the return was good enough not to wait for a better offer to come around.

Greene impressed observers at the NBA Summer League, averaging 22.6 points per game to rank second amongst all scorers. His Pelton Translation numbers were much less impressive. I don't necessarily take that as a huge strike against Greene, because he is awfully young and players with his skill set--long defenders who can stretch the defense by making threes--have historically been very valuable. What the Kings shouldn't expect is immediate contributions. That's acceptable because, in the wake of this deal, Sacramento's goals are long-term in nature.

 

[NME]

His Pelton Translation numbers were much less impressive.

Oh noes, not low Pelton Translation numbers!

Why does everyone and their grandma on the interweb have to have their own personal statistical rating system?

I have my own system called the DORK (Dubiously Over-Rationalized Knowledge) Index, which rates all the statistical ratings systems. Sorry to inform Mr. Pelton, but Pelton Translation's DORK numbers are less than impressive when compared to PER (Player Efficiency Rating), TSP (True Shooting Percentage), and WAG (Wild-A** Guess).

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh noes, not low Pelton Translation numbers!

Why does everyone and their grandma on the interweb have to have their own personal statistical rating system?

I have my own system called the DORK (Dubiously Over-Rationalized Knowledge) Index, which rates all the statistical ratings systems. Sorry to inform Mr. Pelton, but Pelton Translation's DORK numbers are less than impressive when compared to PER (Player Efficiency Rating), TSP (True Shooting Percentage), and WAG (Wild-A** Guess).

Again -- where have you been NME?

I have been insulting the hell out of the alphabet soup of stupid made up stats for years now in a fruitless effort to stem the tide, and here you just saunter on in with the killing stroke.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Oh noes, not low Pelton Translation numbers!

Why does everyone and their grandma on the interweb have to have their own personal statistical rating system?

I have my own system called the DORK (Dubiously Over-Rationalized Knowledge) Index, which rates all the statistical ratings systems. Sorry to inform Mr. Pelton, but Pelton Translation's DORK numbers are less than impressive when compared to PER (Player Efficiency Rating), TSP (True Shooting Percentage), and WAG (Wild-A** Guess).

Funny stuff. I really like these types of numbers although they all tend to underrate good defenders and have to be taken with a large grain of salt. The thing with Greene that another sabermetrics article noted was that he actually had a very good first half of the season, while having a very poor second half. This really echos what all of the people who watched him play said, although everyone has a different explanation of the tail off. However, stisitically this bodes better for him than a player like OJ Mayo or Anthony Randolph who bombed accross the board on translated stats.

 

[Kingster]

Well he definitely had potential coming into Syracuse:



I do question his shot selection, especially given Big East play. I am also quite familiar with Boeheim's coaching at Syracuse, and I don't think Greene was asked to "carry the team," as others have mentioned.
He was on the all Big-East team, and he did have more threes than McNamara, but he also took a lot more shots to get there.

That being said, Theus seems like a guy who's not afraid to break a rookie of his bad habits. Or at least try.

This may be a situation in which it very good the rook isn't "given" a lot of minutes in his first year. I would expect Theus really gets on him about his D and tells him that his minutes are very dependent upon how he plays on that end of the floor.

 

[bajaden]

Oh noes, not low Pelton Translation numbers!

Why does everyone and their grandma on the interweb have to have their own personal statistical rating system?

I have my own system called the DORK (Dubiously Over-Rationalized Knowledge) Index, which rates all the statistical ratings systems. Sorry to inform Mr. Pelton, but Pelton Translation's DORK numbers are less than impressive when compared to PER (Player Efficiency Rating), TSP (True Shooting Percentage), and WAG (Wild-A** Guess).

I use WAG all the time. Right on dude!!

 

[bajaden]

Funny stuff. I really like these types of numbers although they all tend to underrate good defenders and have to be taken with a large grain of salt. The thing with Greene that another sabermetrics article noted was that he actually had a very good first half of the season, while having a very poor second half. This really echos what all of the people who watched him play said, although everyone has a different explanation of the tail off. However, stisitically this bodes better for him than a player like OJ Mayo or Anthony Randolph who bombed accross the board on translated stats.

God, there's that dreaded word. "Sabermetrics" I quit posting on the A's fourm because you can't even have a discussion about a player without having sabermetrics shoved down your throat. When sabermetrics tells you that Jack Cust, who is hitting around 220, and who strikes out as much as he walks, and who has no idea how to protect the plate with two strikes on him, is one of the best hitters on the A's, I'm done.

Sorry. I know this is a basketball fourm, but I just had to vent.

 

[NME]

Funny stuff. I really like these types of numbers although they all tend to underrate good defenders and have to be taken with a large grain of salt.

I concede that, while I make fun, I’m known to troll through various ESPN stat splits or even 82games. There definitely are things you can learn by looking at how stats change in various situations, or from numbers that consider more context (like rebounding percentage vs. rebounding total). Even something like PER is probably often a decent way to compare the overall production of players that produce in different ways.

Sometimes though I just have to laugh at the “overstatistization” of sports. Everyone seems so keen on boiling everything down to their own one-size-fits-all uber-stat as they key to understanding the game. Some of the more exotic stats can be useful if you have a clear idea about exactly what you’re trying to illuminate when you manipulate a particular number, and most importantly if the numbers are understood in combination with *gasp* actual eyeball observation of a player.