GoGoGadget
All-Star
VF21 said:AND no more annoying traveling calls!
I didn't even think of that!!
Pivot foot my ***!
Concern about Webber
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
I didn't even think of that!!
Pivot foot my ***!
GGG - Totally off topic, but did you hear that Angelina may be adopting one of the tsunami orphans? It was reported that she's already given a LOT of money (figure not available, bless her heart) and that she is looking into adopting one or more children.
She's one of the good ones.
I bring this up only because I noticed you changed your avatar and I like that picture!
She's one of the good ones.
I bring this up only because I noticed you changed your avatar and I like that picture!
RaY Z
Starter
i think he just posted this cuz the kings lost... a few members tend to do that (posting when kings dont play well) e.g fire adleman, trade peja threads and the sky is falling or now im worried..... i mean common where one of the top teams in the league right now... no need to worry... beat SA for Christ's sake...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
VF21 said:
You should see the rest of that picture VF21 -- I have, and I really, really REALLY wish she'd use the whole thing.
What about it Gadget?
Last edited:
GoGoGadget
All-Star
I didn't hear that, actually. I feel like all I've seen/heard/read/talked about this week has been basketball. I'm plum tuckered and I'm not even a player.
However, it doesn't surprise me. I know a lot of people (namely, cynical 20-somethings) who tend to question Angelina's motivation -- publicity by way of feigned humanitarian interests. But, I think that she is nothing if not genuine and I'm completely impressed by her desire to make a difference.
She's certainly got a lot more depth than I expected when I first saw her.
I must admit, the initial attraction was just that she was hot and looked willing to try things that would scare even me.
However, it doesn't surprise me. I know a lot of people (namely, cynical 20-somethings) who tend to question Angelina's motivation -- publicity by way of feigned humanitarian interests. But, I think that she is nothing if not genuine and I'm completely impressed by her desire to make a difference.
She's certainly got a lot more depth than I expected when I first saw her.
I must admit, the initial attraction was just that she was hot and looked willing to try things that would scare even me.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Bricklayer said:You shouls see the rest of that picture VF21 -- I have, and I really, really REALLY wish she'd use the whole thing.
What about it Gadget?
I would, gladly, but I had to crop it majorly to get anything avatar sized with even semi-decent resolution.
Believe me, if I could make decent avatars with even half of my Angie pics, I could (and would) change daily for most of a year.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
GoGoGadget said:
That's ok, if its the one I'm thinking of I don't think you could use the whole thing without some er...touchup to make it appropriate for the site anyway.
Last edited:
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Bricklayer said:That's ok, if its the one I'm thinking of I don't think you could use the whole thing without some er...touchup to make it appropriate for the site anyway.
This one is racy, but purely PG.
The one I have that's a different shot from the same batch, however....
slugking50
All-Star
VF21 said:Don't make me get the bucket of water...
Looks like bricks not the only one who needs that bucket.lol
Good thing I decided to read the whole thread.
nAj jAn™
Bench
keflanag said:
5. Jermaine O'Neal (can't argue with this)
6. Elton Brand (athletic version of C-Webb)
7. Emeka Okafor (how many double-double streak?)
8. Shawn Marion (if considered a PF)
9. Pau Gasol (player of the week)
Debatable....
10. Rasheed Wallace (could be better)
11. Carlos Boozer (younger version of C-Webb, still improving)
12. Antawn Jamison (if considered a PF)
13. Lamar Odom (could be better, athletic wise and versatility)
14. Kenyon Martin (maybe last year, could be better in a one on one matchup)
I know you all will disagree, but that's just my opinion....
Almost all of these PF can take Webber in a one on one matchup.....Maybe all of them....We're not talking stats here, only whose the better player....And i think that because of Webber's knee and not almost 100% makes all of these guys better than him....Webber could be better, not today! I'm sure couple years ago....But right now, he's only advantage is he's a veteran and a proven all-star long ago, and has also a great basketball IQ...Some of these PF are now improving and some are still very young, and they can be a great PF someday....
Just My Opinion guys......
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nAj jAn™ said:5. Jermaine O'Neal (can't argue with this)
6. Elton Brand (athletic version of C-Webb)
7. Emeka Okafor (how many double-double streak?)
8. Shawn Marion (if considered a PF)
9. Pau Gasol (player of the week)
Debatable....
10. Rasheed Wallace (could be better)
11. Carlos Boozer (younger version of C-Webb, still improving)
12. Antawn Jamison (if considered a PF)
13. Lamar Odom (could be better, athletic wise and versatility)
14. Kenyon Martin (maybe last year, could be better in a one on one matchup)
I know you all will disagree, but that's just my opinion....
Almost all of these PF can take Webber in a one on one matchup.....Maybe all of them....We're not talking stats here, only whose the better player....And i think that because of Webber's knee and not almost 100% makes all of these guys better than him....Webber could be better, not today! I'm sure couple years ago....But right now, he's only advantage is he's a veteran and a proven all-star long ago, and has also a great basketball IQ...Some of these PF are now improving and some are still very young, and they can be a great PF someday....
Just My Opinion guys......
No one beyond #5 on your list.
The rest of those guys are good, and largely irrelevant players. Some people really seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between a star player, and a guy who really matters. Who is that straw that stirs the drink. That's a huge gulf, and it goes far beyond the stats.
4cwebb
Starter
Bricklayer said:
Agreed, although I think #10 has more talent than CWebb, but doesn't have the mental fortitude to be a bonafide star (or even a #1 option on a team). Oh, and Emeka may become better than CWebb in time, but if you put 20-year-old CWebb in last year's draft, there's no question he's going #1 above Dwight Howard and Emeka. The debate would have been as to who was going 2nd and 3rd.
Nikos
G-League
I would say Brand and Gasol are close to Webber in terms of effectiveness as an NBA player right now.
Obviously Webber has a more rounded game and the ability the make others around him better through his passing/floor general ability. He might not be efficient as a scorer, but he makes others more efficient, and still is a presense overall.
Gasol and Brand are close because they are more efficient as scorers. Maybe not quite as well rounded offensively, but at some point they have to be considered somewhat 'close' to Webber overall because they are more efficient scorers, and still are leaders on respectable teams.
Webber when he is playing his game is about as good or better than anyone not named Duncan or Garnett. But his age and injury tolls have hurt his scoring efficiency. He is still a capable offensive player because he is able to make others more efficient, but if Webber were to shoot 40% from the field and still 'stir' the drink so to speak for HIS team, well you would still have to factor his scoring inefficiency against him when comparing him to the Gasol's and Brand's.
Webb is a slight cut above them overall in an NBA season, and when he is on his game he is clearly the better player. However, its not such a huge disparity anymore if you factor scoring efficiency, leadership, and overall value to a team in the entire 82 game season.
Obviously Webber has a more rounded game and the ability the make others around him better through his passing/floor general ability. He might not be efficient as a scorer, but he makes others more efficient, and still is a presense overall.
Gasol and Brand are close because they are more efficient as scorers. Maybe not quite as well rounded offensively, but at some point they have to be considered somewhat 'close' to Webber overall because they are more efficient scorers, and still are leaders on respectable teams.
Webber when he is playing his game is about as good or better than anyone not named Duncan or Garnett. But his age and injury tolls have hurt his scoring efficiency. He is still a capable offensive player because he is able to make others more efficient, but if Webber were to shoot 40% from the field and still 'stir' the drink so to speak for HIS team, well you would still have to factor his scoring inefficiency against him when comparing him to the Gasol's and Brand's.
Webb is a slight cut above them overall in an NBA season, and when he is on his game he is clearly the better player. However, its not such a huge disparity anymore if you factor scoring efficiency, leadership, and overall value to a team in the entire 82 game season.
Last edited:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
It STILL amazes me that people still jock Rasheed Wallace.
I mean come on! Cannot pass! Cannot rebound! Headcase! Has turned into Peja Drobjnak on the offensive end! What is this great talent exactly? He had a nice post game. Well, he has a couple of nice post moves, how about. He's 31. He's never averaged 20ppg, never averaged 10rpg -- hell, he could only be bothered to grab over 8 in all of one year, where is this great talent??
Webb's best year:
27.1pts (.481 FG%, .083 3pt%, .703 FT%) 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk 2.8TO
Sheed's best year:
19.2ppg (.501 FG%, .321 3pt%, .766 FT%) 7.8rebs 2.8ast 1.2stl 1.8blk 2.1TO
Career Numbers:
Webb:
22.0ppg (.489 FG%, .299 3pt%, .632 FT%) 10.1rebs 4.5ast 1.5stl 1.6blk 3.0TO
Sheed:
15.9ppg (.490 FG%, .332 3pt%, .707 FT%) 6.8rebs 1.9ast 1.0stl 1.3blk 1.9TO
I'm sorry, I just find it unfathomable. When seriously was Wallace all-anything? College? High school?
I mean come on! Cannot pass! Cannot rebound! Headcase! Has turned into Peja Drobjnak on the offensive end! What is this great talent exactly? He had a nice post game. Well, he has a couple of nice post moves, how about. He's 31. He's never averaged 20ppg, never averaged 10rpg -- hell, he could only be bothered to grab over 8 in all of one year, where is this great talent??
Webb's best year:
27.1pts (.481 FG%, .083 3pt%, .703 FT%) 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk 2.8TO
Sheed's best year:
19.2ppg (.501 FG%, .321 3pt%, .766 FT%) 7.8rebs 2.8ast 1.2stl 1.8blk 2.1TO
Career Numbers:
Webb:
22.0ppg (.489 FG%, .299 3pt%, .632 FT%) 10.1rebs 4.5ast 1.5stl 1.6blk 3.0TO
Sheed:
15.9ppg (.490 FG%, .332 3pt%, .707 FT%) 6.8rebs 1.9ast 1.0stl 1.3blk 1.9TO
I'm sorry, I just find it unfathomable. When seriously was Wallace all-anything? College? High school?
Nikos
G-League
Rasheed had some solid years as a support kind of guy. He is just another solid piece to a championship puzzle type of player. He can help pretty much any team with his solid defense and offensive game, but he is not of the elite calibur. He is an above average starter who is basically a difference maker type of player who can hold his own against most players at his position. Problem is as Brick said, he is not a dominant scorer, nor dominant rebounder or shot blocker. He can do all those things well, but not GREAT. Webb is obviously the better talent, and has always been.
In Portland Rasheed was a very good player on an entire team of very good players. Sometimes he shined the most (like against LA in 2000), but it wasn't as if he was a creator for other teamattes.
This season he is playing poorly. I wonder when/if that will change?
In Portland Rasheed was a very good player on an entire team of very good players. Sometimes he shined the most (like against LA in 2000), but it wasn't as if he was a creator for other teamattes.
This season he is playing poorly. I wonder when/if that will change?
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Look at these guys numbers then come back and try to defend this post...nAj jAn™ said:5. Jermaine O'Neal (can't argue with this)
6. Elton Brand (athletic version of C-Webb)
7. Emeka Okafor (how many double-double streak?)
8. Shawn Marion (if considered a PF)
9. Pau Gasol (player of the week)
Debatable....
10. Rasheed Wallace (could be better)
11. Carlos Boozer (younger version of C-Webb, still improving)
12. Antawn Jamison (if considered a PF)
13. Lamar Odom (could be better, athletic wise and versatility)
14. Kenyon Martin (maybe last year, could be better in a one on one matchup)
I know you all will disagree, but that's just my opinion....
Almost all of these PF can take Webber in a one on one matchup.....Maybe all of them....We're not talking stats here, only whose the better player....And i think that because of Webber's knee and not almost 100% makes all of these guys better than him....Webber could be better, not today! I'm sure couple years ago....But right now, he's only advantage is he's a veteran and a proven all-star long ago, and has also a great basketball IQ...Some of these PF are now improving and some are still very young, and they can be a great PF someday....
Just My Opinion guys......
KP
Starter
No one past #5 on your list is better than Webb. J.O. is coming into his own but I'd even say on most nights straight up Webb could equal or surpass him.(depending on the game). Also there is no better passing power forward in the league(I'm also talking about making tough/impossible passes) Than C-Webb. Gotta take Eastern Conferense guys weak competition into account when comparing numbers too. Rasheed Wallace? Are you freaking kidding me? The guy avg like 6.5 Rebs in the East!nAj jAn™ said:5. Jermaine O'Neal (can't argue with this)
6. Elton Brand (athletic version of C-Webb)
7. Emeka Okafor (how many double-double streak?)
8. Shawn Marion (if considered a PF)
9. Pau Gasol (player of the week)
Debatable....
10. Rasheed Wallace (could be better)
11. Carlos Boozer (younger version of C-Webb, still improving)
12. Antawn Jamison (if considered a PF)
13. Lamar Odom (could be better, athletic wise and versatility)
14. Kenyon Martin (maybe last year, could be better in a one on one matchup)
I know you all will disagree, but that's just my opinion....
Almost all of these PF can take Webber in a one on one matchup.....Maybe all of them....We're not talking stats here, only whose the better player....And i think that because of Webber's knee and not almost 100% makes all of these guys better than him....Webber could be better, not today! I'm sure couple years ago....But right now, he's only advantage is he's a veteran and a proven all-star long ago, and has also a great basketball IQ...Some of these PF are now improving and some are still very young, and they can be a great PF someday....
Just My Opinion guys......
Last edited:
Brewer16
Bench
nAj jAn™ said:5. Jermaine O'Neal (can't argue with this)
6. Elton Brand (athletic version of C-Webb)
7. Emeka Okafor (how many double-double streak?)
8. Shawn Marion (if considered a PF)
9. Pau Gasol (player of the week)
Debatable....
10. Rasheed Wallace (could be better)
11. Carlos Boozer (younger version of C-Webb, still improving)
12. Antawn Jamison (if considered a PF)
13. Lamar Odom (could be better, athletic wise and versatility)
14. Kenyon Martin (maybe last year, could be better in a one on one matchup)
I know you all will disagree, but that's just my opinion....
Almost all of these PF can take Webber in a one on one matchup.....Maybe all of them....We're not talking stats here, only whose the better player....And i think that because of Webber's knee and not almost 100% makes all of these guys better than him....Webber could be better, not today! I'm sure couple years ago....But right now, he's only advantage is he's a veteran and a proven all-star long ago, and has also a great basketball IQ...Some of these PF are now improving and some are still very young, and they can be a great PF someday....
Just My Opinion guys......
Maybe so, but basketballs not a one on one sport..yes, O'Neil could probably beat Webber one on one, but does that make him better overall? No. Webbers a much better passer, and a smarter player.
And I wouldnt even consider the guys past #6 besides Gasol and maybe Odom close to Webber. Okafors got the potential but not yet.
Gary
All-Star
Brewer16 said:
But the question is, would you trade Okafor straight up for Webber if given the chance? (I know this not possible) I would if that meant that we could keep Milller, Peja would stay, and Bibby as well. Okafor having played 4 years of college is better suited to help a team now than some of the younger guys out there.
KP
Starter
I only deal in facts.
Here's a link to the Box score: http://www.nba.com/games/20040319/SACIND/boxscore.html
Not sure how you would know, since they hardly ever play each other(injuries, Suspensions lol) But the last time they did go head to head... March 19, 2004, Webb handed it to him. C-Webb 24 pts 16 rebs 8 assists! JO 23 pts 7 rebs 2 assists. So you see Webb can be a "very talented beast of a player" at times too, that game was AFTER he came back from his injury, in case you were wondering.Vlad said:
Here's a link to the Box score: http://www.nba.com/games/20040319/SACIND/boxscore.html
Last edited:
4cwebb
Starter
Bricklayer said:It STILL amazes me that people still jock Rasheed Wallace.
I mean come on! Cannot pass! Cannot rebound! Headcase! Has turned into Peja Drobjnak on the offensive end! What is this great talent exactly? He had a nice post game. Well, he has a couple of nice post moves, how about. He's 31. He's never averaged 20ppg, never averaged 10rpg -- hell, he could only be bothered to grab over 8 in all of one year, where is this great talent??
Webb's best year:
27.1pts (.481 FG%, .083 3pt%, .703 FT%) 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk 2.8TO
Sheed's best year:
19.2ppg (.501 FG%, .321 3pt%, .766 FT%) 7.8rebs 2.8ast 1.2stl 1.8blk 2.1TO
Career Numbers:
Webb:
22.0ppg (.489 FG%, .299 3pt%, .632 FT%) 10.1rebs 4.5ast 1.5stl 1.6blk 3.0TO
Sheed:
15.9ppg (.490 FG%, .332 3pt%, .707 FT%) 6.8rebs 1.9ast 1.0stl 1.3blk 1.9TO
I'm sorry, I just find it unfathomable. When seriously was Wallace all-anything? College? High school?
I think it depends on the definition of "talent". In this instance, I'm only jocking Rasheed's *perceived* physical skills as they *could* apply to the game of basketball *if* he had a decent head on his shoulders.
In that case, I think an argument can be made that 'Sheed is as talented a PF as any other player in the league, although CWebb would come close (due largely to his inability to use all of his talents, but that's a different post).
First, he can hit you with any move in the post, and he can do any of them with equal comfort/ease -- spin in either direction, fade in either direction, and he has the size to bang with any big man not named Shaq effectively. He can dribble effectively enough with either hand as well.
Second, his size and athleticism effectively have no equal at the PF -- he's beefier than KG, giving him an advantage in the post game on offense and defense, but he's more athletic than Duncan. He *could* more easily cover players on the perimeter at this point in his career than Duncan, and has played SF with some effectiveness. I don't think Duncan could do that same thing for a majority of an NBA season.
Third, his touch from the perimeter is good (if not very good) for a big man, although he has at times come dangerously close to Antoine Walker territory in settling for threes.
Of course, 'Sheed's head has never let any of this talent lead him down the path to greatness, and that's fine by me since he isn't on a team which I enjoy watching (other than the Pistons in the Finals last year).
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
4cwebb said:
Although I understand your point, I find it hard to separate the fact that Sheed is a "head case" from all of his skills. I think comparing a players "ability" from his "head" takes you down a dangerous path. Why? It is that head that allows the "ability". In other words, they cannot be separated. Ergo, Chris is, and has been, a much better player than Rasheed Wallace.
KP
Starter
I think we already said most of us agree with your list ranking wise. 1-4 is correct(untouchable). Id say C-Webb and Jermaine Oneal are about equal at 5th. I posted what happened the last time they,(J.O and C-webb) met^^. Do you have a comment Naj? You said there was no argument. And the rest of your list is good from there on. We all showed you statistically,(not to mention post season success on a team where they are the best player) why Webb should be above the rest(#6 and higher).nAj jAn™ said:
Last edited:
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
8 other guys in the histor of the NBA have averaged 20-10-5 every season of their carrer, but in Webb's case it probably will not get him in the Hall of fame with out a ring.Heuge said:
Just off the top of my head I'd rank the top 10 PF's based on this seaons play only as follows.The names would pretty much stay the same but the olrder would change if we are talking some kind of over all ranking based on past 5 years, and would change again based on entire careeers.
1. Dirk (the dude is killing em)
2. TD
3. Garnet
4. Webber
5. Jermaine Oniel
6. Amare Staudemire
7. Rashard Lewis
8. Elton Brand
9. Drew Gooden
10. Lamar Odom
