Come fly with us, Birdman:

Anthony Morrow is another guy who I would like to see Sac go after. He would probably be better and cheaper as a backup than McCants.
 
I like him, but he's going to rack the dough this offseason with his body of work throughout the season--athletic big men who can rebound and block shots are a rare commodity, and he was a former slam dunk participant to boot with an intimidating edge about him (or maybe it's just the tattoos). It seems like he wants the MLE, and that might be pushing it--he's nearing 30 and much of his game relies on energy and athleticism, and he does have some off the court problems. So it might be a high maintenance move, and if that's the scenario, may as well pass. I have a feeling Gortat's a similar case--these bigs who make it deep in the playoffs, have athleticism and can rebound and play D are highly valuable, and I bet he'll also ask for the MLE. So I'd just go for Fesenko or someone who's still under the radar as of now.

As for Morrow, he's a team option and there's no doubt that GS would pick it up--he was a huge surprise on a team that's unknown for cultivating diamonds in the rough, and his ability to shoot the three fits right into Nellyball. So virtually impossible.
 
I don't see sac going after him because they have never liked bench bigs who are tough, energetic, and who can rebound and block shots. Justin Williams did only that, and because he couldn't score, the Kings didn't want him. Brian Skinner does just that, but those kinds of guys don't matter to GP. Lou Amundson did that, but because he was a big who didn't score, the Kings don't like that. I'm so sick of this soft team. I want the Petrie back who got guys like Corliss and Pollard.
 
Last edited:
He really is a very bad man-to-man defender and many times just tries to get a block instead of playing good defense. He would be good at a very low cost and if we had good man-to-man defenders around him, but that isn't the case.
 
He really is a very bad man-to-man defender and many times just tries to get a block instead of playing good defense. He would be good at a very low cost and if we had good man-to-man defenders around him, but that isn't the case.
Who cares? He wouldn't be starting, and wouldn't be guarding a guy to shut him down. He's in there for rebounding and help defense, so man to man D is irrelevant.

And he's not coming to Sac anyway, because he'd rather come off the bench on a contender than a bottom feeding team.
 
Who cares? He wouldn't be starting, and wouldn't be guarding a guy to shut him down. He's in there for rebounding and help defense, so man to man D is irrelevant.

And he's not coming to Sac anyway, because he'd rather come off the bench on a contender than a bottom feeding team.

Well he still has to guard someone. I've seen him getting bunches of points put up against him and man to man D is definitely relevant.
 
Well he still has to guard someone. I've seen him getting bunches of points put up against him and man to man D is definitely relevant.
Let's not act like he makes whomever he covers look like Hakeem. The point is that since he would be coming off the bench behind JT/Hawes, he wouldn't be playing heavy minutes. Also, he most likely wouldn't be guarding the opposing team's starting bigs. So that means in his limited minutes (he averaged 20 per game this season), he wouldn't be guarding anybody that long, and most of that time would be on a reserve big. There aren't that many reserve bigs that can score on the block that well enough to matter.

Again, a reserve big like Andersen doesn't need to be a Duncan-like defender. His biggest strength is his shot blocking and rebounding, and man-to-man defense for a player in that situation (limited role, limited time, energy boost off the bench) isn't that important. That's exactly why he's not a starter. He's best for a boost off the bench in limited time, and is very effective in that manner. He was second in shot blocking for the season in that limited role.
 
Last edited:
This is sarcasm, right?
I'm sure it is. But a player of his type is what we are discussing, and that's what the Kings could use. A big off the bench who can rebound and block, and not much else. This team needs toughness and those types of players add toughness and energy. Lou Amundson, who worked out with the Kings with Justin, is now providing that energy and hustle to the Suns, where he proved to be a nice addition after Amare went down.
 
Oh I agree completely with getting a tough, rebounding, athletic, shotblocker, but not a scrub like Williams or anyone like him.
 
Oh I agree completely with getting a tough, rebounding, athletic, shotblocker, but not a scrub like Williams or anyone like him.
Limited players who are only good enough to come off the bench aren't going to be anything but glorified scrubs. That's kind of the point. They can only do one or two things well, and so they don't start and don't play big minutes. Birdman could be classified as a "scrub" before he got so much attention this season with his shot blocking, even though he was the same type of player before. If you don't want those level of players, but want those aspects, then you are looking for higher level and higher priced players.
 
Last edited:
Limited players who are only good enough to come off the bench aren't going to be anything but glorified scrubs. That's kind of the point. They can only do one or two things well, and so they don't start and don't play big minutes. Birdman could be classified as a "scrub" before he got so much attention this season with his shot blocking, even though he was the same type of player before.

No, Birdman is a role player. Justin Williams is a scrub.

There is a difference. Role players sometimes only do one or two things well and they don't usually start. However, they fill a hole. They meet a need. They complement the stars. They complete the team. Birdman has been meeting Denver's needs and he would meet ours.

Then you have guys who don't need to be getting any minutes at all except in garbage time. Those are usually scrubs.

A role player does not always have to be expensive either.
 
Last edited:
No, Birdman is a role player. Justin Williams is a scrub.
I've read your posts, and I can't tell from your perspective what the difference is. So, what makes a scrub and a role player? Why is Birdman a role player and a guy like Lou Amundson or Justin Williams a scrub?

Justin's numbers in two years:

2006:

games: 26, minutes: 12.8 per game, rebounding %: 20, per 36 minute: 12.4 rebounds

2007:

games: 23, minutes: 5.3 per game, rebounding %: 23.5, per 36 minute: 14.3 rebounds
 
Last edited:
I've read your posts, and I can't tell from your perspective what the difference is. So, what makes a scrub and a role player? Why is Birdman a role player and a guy like Lou Amundson a scrub?

I never said anything about Lou.

Role players consistently contribute. Consistent. Guys like Williams are not that. Williams has not been fulfilled a need on any team. He has the potential to, but he hasn't.

And I'm curious, why are you putting Birdman and Williams in the same category anyway?
 
Last edited:
Justin's numbers in two years:

2006:

games: 26, minutes: 12.8 per game, rebounding %: 20, per 36 minute: 12.4 rebounds

2007:

games: 23, minutes: 5.3 per game, rebounding %: 23.5, per 36 minute: 14.3 rebounds

Ok, most of his stats were during meaningless minutes anyways, especially in 07. Also, if he provides so much spark, why can't he find a team to stay with?
 
In all honesty, I can't believe we're going round and round trying to figure out whether or not Justin Williams is on the same level as Birdman. :rolleyes:

It is late, if you really like Justin that much - kudos to you.
 
I never said anything about Lou.

Lou and Williams are very similar players who provide the same things for teams. I brought him up because both played for Sac, and both provided the same things and had similar deficiencies. It's just that Lou has went from Philly to the Suns, while Justin hasn't been able to stay with anybody.

Role players consistently contribute. Consistent. Guys like Williams are not that. Williams has not been fulfilled a need on any team. He has the potential to, but he hasn't.

Williams was consistently providing rebounding and post defense when he played with the Kings. He wasn't consistent at ALL on offense, but when he was on the floor, you knew a few things would happen: he was going to crash the boards, he was going to block some shots, and because of him being raw, he was going to foul a lot. If that Bibby trade never happened, I don't think he would have been cut as early as he was.

And I'm curious, why are you putting Birdman and Williams in the same category anyway?
Because both are similar players. Both are extremely limited in what they can bring to a team, but what they can bring are important aspects to the game. Both players have limitations and liabilities, but they can be effective in a few areas. Both players happen to be PF/C who are athletic, energetic, and provide rebounding and blocks. Both players aren't good enough to start because of their limitations.

I think Justin would have fit that bench role well, but at that time the Kings didn't want or need just that in one guy. They needed a young big who could produce on the offensive end. I would imagine even if they had the current Birdman then, he would have been cut to make room for that trade.
 
Last edited:
In all honesty, I can't believe we're going round and round trying to figure out whether or not Justin Williams is on the same level as Birdman. :rolleyes:

It is late, if you really like Justin that much - kudos to you.

Williams had no basketball IQ. He was a good weakside defender who got in the way on the other end of the floor. Anderson knows how to play the game. He's a weird dude for sure, But he knows how to play basketball. He knows defensive rotations. Williams thought a rotation had something to do with a yoyo.

As for definitions. A role player is someone that has a particular job to do and goes out and does it. He's a valuable asset to the team. James Posey is a role player. Bobby Jackson was a role player. Etc... A scrub is someone that you cheaply fill out your roster with, and is probably only going to see the floor in an emergency or garbage time. AKA Justin Williams...

If you put aside Andersons off court issues, he's a pretty damm good basketball player, and he was a large part of what Denver did this year. He is in fact, a Pollard type player. A different type of player than Pollard, but he plays a similar role.
 
In all honesty, I can't believe we're going round and round trying to figure out whether or not Justin Williams is on the same level as Birdman. :rolleyes:

It is late, if you really like Justin that much - kudos to you.

I'm just pointing out how the Kings haven't kept or played those types of players when even a "scrub" like Williams provided something they weren't getting from their other guys. That's how bad it was: a scrub who isn't in the league can give the team something they weren't getting and they needed. The team has passed up on those tough, hustle, bench bigs time and time again, which is why I brought up several names over the recent past which included Williams. Hell, I think they would play a WNBA player at center if she could shoot.

And where has this sudden appreciation for Birdman come from? Because before this season, he was a scrub. He was a career bench player who didn't do anything but rebound, dunk, and have the occasional highlight block. He wasn't doing anything of note or consistently before this year. He was a "scrub" by your definition, even after completing his drug treatment and returning to the hornets.

But again, this isn't about Justin Williams being Birdman's equal. It's about the Kings passing up scrubs/role players who can provide that physical rebounding and defense inside. Even if Birdman wanted to come to Sac, I doubt they would entertain that option in free agency.
 
Last edited:
I would love to have the birdman in a kings uniform, but it won't happen. Why would he leave such a good situation? Denver gave him a 2nd chance at resuming his nba career. This is his 2nd time suiting up for denver. During his suspension, he lived and worked out a hour outside of denver and attended denver games on a regular basis. He isn't going anywhere. In the playoffs he was denver's best player coming off the bench along with jr smith. He is in the best situation basketball wise he has had since turning pro. I would rather talk about FA's we actually have a chance of signing.
 
I don't see sac going after him because they have never liked bench bigs who are tough, energetic, and who can rebound and block shots. Justin Williams did only that, and because he couldn't score, the Kings didn't want him. Brian Skinner does just that, but those kinds of guys don't matter to GP. Lou Amundson did that, but because he was a big who didn't score, the Kings don't like that. I'm so sick of this soft team. I want the Petrie back who got guys like Corliss and Pollard.

Eh I think if we get a coach like Thibodeau it's a strong possibility we go after some tougher players.
 
Eh I think if we get a coach like Thibodeau it's a strong possibility we go after some tougher players.


I don't think its been the coaches -- Muss wanted to preach defense, so did Reggie, even going so far as to cast aspersions at Spencer's softness. For that matter so did Rick, who obviously has no problem with those types of players in Houston and I remember sounded rather annoyed with the types of players he was given later in his tenure. I think the disconnect has been somewhere up higher in the food chain.

As an aside, was I the only who noticed that Birdman was NOT terribly effective defensively in this series? Not physical and never got his body on Pau at all. Beggars cannot necessarily be choosers however.
 
its a good solid point that, this is GPs team and really the coach he picks here needs to be in line with his vision. I wouldnt mind Thibodeau at all and some solid D but if GP doesnt give him the players required and see eye to eye here then were not going to get very far
 
so what your saying we need young bodies and minds that are willing to do what ever the coach asks them to do?

well i support of getting young bigs and give them time to grow as the season continues. since we dont need ego wars amongst coaches?

we just need to get younger pieces now.. we have the future front court.
 
well yes thats what it comes down to in every team sport. The coach having a vision and being given the players to execute that vision.
 
Back
Top