Collison expected to declare

Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#1
#1
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1956

"Sophomores Darren Collison and Josh Shipp are both expected to put their names in the draft this year, without hiring an agent in order to preserve their college eligibility. Collison is on pace to graduate next year as a junior, but will take a look at where his stock lies in order to gauge whether he should come back and complete his degree."

If he ends up officially going into the draft, we have to take a serious look at him. One of the best if not the best pg prospect in college.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
#2
And if we draft another guard we're going to be looking at another year of mediocrity and frustation IMHO. We HAVE to find a decent 4/5 somewhere. I don't see us making the miracle deal to bring one through trade, we can't afford to acquire one through free agency so we're pretty much stuck with trying for the best possible big in the draft...

It's down to the point where it's do that or just play hobbit ball forever.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#3
#3
VF21 said:
And if we draft another guard we're going to be looking at another year of mediocrity and frustation IMHO. We HAVE to find a decent 4/5 somewhere. I don't see us making the miracle deal to bring one through trade, we can't afford to acquire one through free agency so we're pretty much stuck with trying for the best possible big in the draft...

It's down to the point where it's do that or just play hobbit ball forever.
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Obviously we have to give the edge to a bigman if it's similar upside, but if we're talking a limited ceiling big man who doesn't make a huge difference we HAVE to go for the upside of Darren Collison. The guy is a future all-star IMO and all-star point guards are NOT easy to come by. We need cornerstone players more than we just need big men. We're not going to compete next year, I think you need to accept that. We have to build towards the future and that's why I'd give the edge to Collison over a marginal big man. BPA is more important to our rebuild than just getting a big man for the sake of a big man. The specific needs of "now" may very well become irrelevant once/if this team is scrapped.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#4
#4
We'll have to see what happens, of course. I remember how it was before Vlade came to the Kings. HE was the cornerstone that heralded the beginning of what a lot of us have come to call the Glory Years. I think if they're going to scrap and rebuild they need to get the best cornerstone big man they can possibly find and go from there. As I said elsewhere, it doesn't look likely we'll find him through trade or free agency so it's the draft or more hobbit ball...

But who knows?
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#5
#5
Vlade4GM said:
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1956

"Sophomores Darren Collison and Josh Shipp are both expected to put their names in the draft this year, without hiring an agent in order to preserve their college eligibility. Collison is on pace to graduate next year as a junior, but will take a look at where his stock lies in order to gauge whether he should come back and complete his degree."

If he ends up officially going into the draft, we have to take a serious look at him. One of the best if not the best pg prospect in college.
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We can't do that. Don't even think about it. I'm a Bruin, and I want to see him in blue and gold next year.:) Also, another year would do him good for enhancing his market value. Next year he will be playing with an incredible center in Love, who will make Collison better on the court because of his ability to finish on Collison dishes, to pass to Collison on backdoor cuts and outlets off defensive rebs (Love is incredible in this area), and his ability to open up the court and give Collsion space to drive because of his outside shot (Love can shoot 3 pointers). Collison is also scheduled to graduate next year, even though he will be a junior. So keep your mits off Collison!:D
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#6
#6
VF21 said:
We'll have to see what happens, of course. I remember how it was before Vlade came to the Kings. HE was the cornerstone that heralded the beginning of what a lot of us have come to call the Glory Years. I think if they're going to scrap and rebuild they need to get the best cornerstone big man they can possibly find and go from there. As I said elsewhere, it doesn't look likely we'll find him through trade or free agency so it's the draft or more hobbit ball...

But who knows?
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I think the wild card is how many quality big men will be available in the '08 lottery. There is no way to really know that for sure, so that's where the uncertainty is. However other than that it's pretty irrelevant "when" we get that big man in the grand scheme of things since it will take awhile before we're close to a finished product. Please consider that I wouldn't be suggesting this unless I thought the world of Collison, I think he'll be a 17-20 ppg 8-10 apg 2 spg type player, I wouldn't suggest it with any other pg currently projected to go in this draft. I think it might be a question similar to whether to would you rather have Andrew Bogut or Chris Paul. Like say if it's a choice between Noah/Splitter or Collison, I take Collison in a heart beat. If it's Hawes/Jianlian/Hibbert or Collison I think twice.
 
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Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#7
#7
Kingster said:
We can't do that. Don't even think about it. I'm a Bruin, and I want to see him in blue and gold next year.:) Also, another year would do him good for enhancing his market value. Next year he will be playing with an incredible center in Love, who will make Collison better on the court because of his ability to finish on Collison dishes, to pass to Collison on backdoor cuts and outlets off defensive rebs (Love is incredible in this area), and his ability to open up the court and give Collsion space to drive because of his outside shot (Love can shoot 3 pointers). Collison is also scheduled to graduate next year, even though he will be a junior. So keep your mits off Collison!:D
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Love will probably be the reason that he returns if he does but he'll be the top guard in this year's draft instantly. I'm sure it will be a tough decision for him, but I think he'll return to school.
 
T

tjobrien

G-League
#8
#8
VF21 said:
We'll have to see what happens, of course. I remember how it was before Vlade came to the Kings. HE was the cornerstone that heralded the beginning of what a lot of us have come to call the Glory Years. I think if they're going to scrap and rebuild they need to get the best cornerstone big man they can possibly find and go from there. As I said elsewhere, it doesn't look likely we'll find him through trade or free agency so it's the draft or more hobbit ball...

But who knows?
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The point, though, is if you can't get a cornerstone big man, it would be insane to take a marginal big man just because you want a big man. I am not nearly as high on Collison as the OP, and I sure wouldn't take him in the Top 10. If he was available, I'd be hoping for Jeff Green. That is if Hibbert is gone. I know you love Noah, but if we take him I may slit my wrists. He will be solid, but not a cornerstone big man that you can build around.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#9
#9
Time to trade up for another 1st rounder somehow. Probably using Bibby.

Collison would be a great fit here IMO and also think I heard he grew up in Sac.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#10
#10
tjobrien said:
The point, though, is if you can't get a cornerstone big man, it would be insane to take a marginal big man just because you want a big man. I am not nearly as high on Collison as the OP, and I sure wouldn't take him in the Top 10. If he was available, I'd be hoping for Jeff Green. That is if Hibbert is gone. I know you love Noah, but if we take him I may slit my wrists. He will be solid, but not a cornerstone big man that you can build around.
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Jeff Green while I love his talent, he's way too passive to pass up even a marginal big man for. I'd pick him in the mid first and that's about it. He's not a cornerstone talent, I thought the perfect description of him was a shorter lamar odom. Which means an Odom that can't play pf, isn't a mismatch, and doesn't rebound as well. Expect a Boris Diaw type, not an all-star.
 
A

Arby's Roast Beef

Starter
#11
#11
If Collison is on the board (especially if he even decides to stay in the draft) when the Kings are picking, there is a huge decision to make. On the one hand we sorely need a defensive minded guard who can pass the ball proficiently and perhaps even become one of the better PGs of the league; but on the other hand he sorely lacks the size we desperately covet and which we can attain in this draft. I'm not sure if the trade-offs are worth it, but all of that will come to naught if, and most likely, Collison decides to go back to school.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
Arby's Roast Beef said:
If Collison is on the board (especially if he even decides to stay in the draft) when the Kings are picking, there is a huge decision to make. On the one hand we sorely need a defensive minded guard who can pass the ball proficiently and perhaps even become one of the better PGs of the league; but on the other hand he sorely lacks the size we desperately covet and which we can attain in this draft. I'm not sure if the trade-offs are worth it, but all of that will come to naught if, and most likely, Collison decides to go back to school.
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Even though I'm a big Collison fan and he'll probably be in the top 3 of college guards next year, I'm not totally sold on him for the NBA. I don't know if his shooting is good enough. At the beginning of the year, he did some NBA tear-drop shots that amazed me. I didn't see that later in the year though. I'd have to see him get his scoring up to make me pay a top-10 price. One more year and then he'll be ready.:)
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#14
#14
Vlade4GM said:
I think the wild card is how many quality big men will be available in the '08 lottery. There is no way to really know that for sure, so that's where the uncertainty is. However other than that it's pretty irrelevant "when" we get that big man in the grand scheme of things since it will take awhile before we're close to a finished product. Please consider that I wouldn't be suggesting this unless I thought the world of Collison, I think he'll be a 17-20 ppg 8-10 apg 2 spg type player, I wouldn't suggest it with any other pg currently projected to go in this draft. I think it might be a question similar to whether to would you rather have Andrew Bogut or Chris Paul. Like say if it's a choice between Noah/Splitter or Collison, I take Collison in a heart beat. If it's Hawes/Jianlian/Hibbert or Collison I think twice.
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those are hall of fame PG type of numbers...

for reference's sake, this season, steve nash is averaging 18.9 pts, 11.5 asts, and .8 stls per game. if collison is that good, then he's definitely worth a look. however, i don't know anything about the kid, so all i can do is rely on other assessments.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#15
#15
From what I've seen, he still needs work. Another year in college wouldn't hurt him, but I think he's going to be pretty good.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#16
#16
Padrino said:
those are hall of fame PG type of numbers...

for reference's sake, this season, steve nash is averaging 18.9 pts, 11.5 asts, and .8 stls per game. if collison is that good, then he's definitely worth a look. however, i don't know anything about the kid, so all i can do is rely on other assessments.
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It's right around what Chris Paul is doing. Is it such a stretch that he can be as good as Paul? I don't think it is.
 
V

Venom

Bench
#17
#17
Fair decision by him up to and until Conley declares. Then he should withdraw his name. Love this kid though. He will be competing for championships at the next level. I would compare him more to Gary Payton. I don't think people realize how good his defense is.
 
U

uopmatt

G-League
#18
#18
I'm a huge Bruin fan and would have to agree that I see this guy having a chance to be a star at the next level just based on his ablility to run a team and play defense, but I would still take a guy like Conley over him at this stage in their careers.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#19
#19
uopmatt said:
I'm a huge Bruin fan and would have to agree that I see this guy having a chance to be a star at the next level just based on his ablility to run a team and play defense, but I would still take a guy like Conley over him at this stage in their careers.
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Conley is so far less skilled than Collison. Collison has better play making skills, better shot, and way better defense.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#20
#20
Vlade4GM said:
Conley is so far less skilled than Collison. Collison has better play making skills, better shot, and way better defense.
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Conley's only a freshman though. But I think you're really underrating Conley here. From what I've seen Conley is a good defender, great at play making, great at driving, and he's improving his shot.
 
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