http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-clippers24dec24,1,4037927.story?coll=la-headlines-sports
Please no. ANYTHING but a deal with the Clippers.
Please no. ANYTHING but a deal with the Clippers.
Clippers want Artest
- Thread starter BMiller52
- Start date
Which, the one Slab posted or just Artest for Maggette? Too be honest I don't even like Livingston who they wouldn't even trade for AI. He's an overrated stick figure IMO. Petrie needs to not do a deal with LAC if Artest does legitimately want out and find a decent deal, hang up the phone instead of making another team in the same division better.
I don't believe this at all. I'll be absolutely shocked if it happens. Ron hasn't made any indication he wants to leave the Kings. It also goes against the Maloofs, and Musselman.
Bibby
Martin
Maggette
Thomas
Miller
We'll be bad defensively, Maggette's injury prone, not a team-player, and isn't really a leader. Good slasher, decent shooter, good rebounder, but not much else, if anything.
With this rumored trade, we'd be doing a complete u-turn in long-term direction and philopsophy. I'd really go away from this team from what I have been and am now, and casually check the Kings out semi-regularily at the most. Even if it would involve Livingston.
This article completely goes against this "Clipper high-ranking source":
http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/97418.html
A bit of Ron being Ron, but it's a good article.
Bibby
Martin
Maggette
Thomas
Miller
We'll be bad defensively, Maggette's injury prone, not a team-player, and isn't really a leader. Good slasher, decent shooter, good rebounder, but not much else, if anything.
With this rumored trade, we'd be doing a complete u-turn in long-term direction and philopsophy. I'd really go away from this team from what I have been and am now, and casually check the Kings out semi-regularily at the most. Even if it would involve Livingston.
This article completely goes against this "Clipper high-ranking source":
http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/97418.html
A bit of Ron being Ron, but it's a good article.
I trade I like is a 3 way Sac-Hou-LAC, where the Clippers get Artest, Hou gets Maggette and the Kings get Battier and the expiring of Sura. Battier is a great defender too, and has signed a cheap contract (about 6 mill/year) for 4-5 more years, it allows the Kings spend money in other players, because I don't think sign Artest next season for at least 12 mill/year is a good idea. Battier is a decent shooter, can score if he takes the shots, is a team player and would be a great guy for the chemistry problems. Hou gets a 3rd scoring option in Maggette and McGrady could play the SF. If we could get something more in this trade, like a pick (07 1st of the Clippers) or a young player (Korolev f.e.) would be perfect, but I'd be happy with Battier+another expiring for Artest.
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[because I don't think sign Artest next season for at least 12 mill/year is a good idea.]
You really think artest will get 12 million a year? I love his tenacity out on the court and seeing him going 1 on 1 against guys like Kobe, but there is no way he is worth that kind of money. The guy thinks he should be a number one option on offense which causes him to force up way to many shots that are not in the confines of a set offense.
You really think artest will get 12 million a year? I love his tenacity out on the court and seeing him going 1 on 1 against guys like Kobe, but there is no way he is worth that kind of money. The guy thinks he should be a number one option on offense which causes him to force up way to many shots that are not in the confines of a set offense.
If Maggette and Artest are the linchpins of deal between the Kings and the Clippers, I'd be interested as a Kings' fan, largely because Maggette has never had an opportunity to showcase his ability as even the #2 option on a team. And even in those roles he's very effective at getting to the line when he gets consistent minutes. He would definitely be a player capable of putting up big offensive numbers (hopefully with Kevin Martin), especially with Brad and Mike distributing.
Oh, and he's actually missed fewer games than Artest this year...sure, the season is barely 1/4 over, but for Artest to have missed 6 games to this point is a little surprising, and may, as has been speculated, indicate his unhappiness as a King. Let the Clippers deal with him --- he won't be the number one option there, either. And, as an added bonus, if Cassell barks at him to much, Ron may knock Cassell right out of the league.
Oh, and he's actually missed fewer games than Artest this year...sure, the season is barely 1/4 over, but for Artest to have missed 6 games to this point is a little surprising, and may, as has been speculated, indicate his unhappiness as a King. Let the Clippers deal with him --- he won't be the number one option there, either. And, as an added bonus, if Cassell barks at him to much, Ron may knock Cassell right out of the league.
Maggette is a much more important player than the last two years of semi-exile have shown, and is a 20ppg guy with minutes. That said, he is NOT an impact guy, and so getting him for Ron would just leave us in the same position we've been in with a bunch of second rate stars, but nobody who makes a top team win. If Ron is going to implode, a decent save though, and would resolve some of our identity issues by establishing us as a team built around open court players in Maggette, Kevin and Salmons. Which won't win you a title btw, but which could at least point the natural direction of the future roster moves up front (i..e, young, atheltic, runners).
I'd still like more though. Given Maggette's limited role there, we might be able to get it too -- they will be looking at ron as a major impact guy again, and from their perspective giving up Maggette AND something else (try to chase picks or kids obviously) might feel to them like they are still coming out ahead.
I'd still like more though. Given Maggette's limited role there, we might be able to get it too -- they will be looking at ron as a major impact guy again, and from their perspective giving up Maggette AND something else (try to chase picks or kids obviously) might feel to them like they are still coming out ahead.
If we're trading Artest for Magette then we'd BETTER be getting one of their bigs as well. We package Artest and Thomas/Rahim for Magette and Kaman than MAYBE we'll talk. Clippers got Paul Davis in the wings so Kaman might be more expendible than people think, especially if they're trying to get Artest.
I'd argue that they're bad defensively now, that Artest hasn't been a good team player or leader, that he's been a spotty offensive threat at best, and that he has a history of doing things that drag a franchise down.
The Kings' poor defense certainly isn't his fault; the Kings are going to continue to be poor defensively as long as they have both Bibby (who can't stop penetration) and Miller (who isn't much of a threat to block shots once Bibby's man gets into the lane) on the floor. The Kings were able to cover up their deficiencies in previous seasons because they were so good offensively. None of this is breaking news.
It's one thing for team management and the new coach to say, "We're now going to focus on defense." The reality is, they don't have the tools to do that, and getting them would require a whole bunch of work that they probably can't get done overnight.
As for making a U-turn, it's like driving with my wife, one of the world's great backseat drivers. If I make a wrong turn or go somewhere taking a different route than she would, I'll always hear about it. My response is inevitably that "We may get there a minute or two slower, but we'll get there."
Maybe that's what the Kings have decided: We were going the wrong way. But there's another way to get there. It may take a bit longer, but we'll still get there.
The Kings' poor defense certainly isn't his fault; the Kings are going to continue to be poor defensively as long as they have both Bibby (who can't stop penetration) and Miller (who isn't much of a threat to block shots once Bibby's man gets into the lane) on the floor. The Kings were able to cover up their deficiencies in previous seasons because they were so good offensively. None of this is breaking news.
It's one thing for team management and the new coach to say, "We're now going to focus on defense." The reality is, they don't have the tools to do that, and getting them would require a whole bunch of work that they probably can't get done overnight.
As for making a U-turn, it's like driving with my wife, one of the world's great backseat drivers. If I make a wrong turn or go somewhere taking a different route than she would, I'll always hear about it. My response is inevitably that "We may get there a minute or two slower, but we'll get there."
Maybe that's what the Kings have decided: We were going the wrong way. But there's another way to get there. It may take a bit longer, but we'll still get there.
I think that's it in a nutshell: The Kings aren't trying to hit a home run, just cut their losses before it hits the fan. Maybe the Kings wouldn't be title contenders with Maggette, but they also wouldn't be boring, and they might be a more harmonious group with the potential to make some impactful moves in the future.
On a parallel Maggette thread, I mentioned that, according to Real GM, Artest for Maggette and Quenton Ross works under the cap. Ross is a nice defensive, two-position player. I doubt the Kings are going to get Kaman (who has been spotty since signing a big deal, by the way) in any deal. But with Maggette and Q-Ross added to the current roster of 2s and 3s, the Kings could be in a position to make further moves to bring in some help.
On a parallel Maggette thread, I mentioned that, according to Real GM, Artest for Maggette and Quenton Ross works under the cap. Ross is a nice defensive, two-position player. I doubt the Kings are going to get Kaman (who has been spotty since signing a big deal, by the way) in any deal. But with Maggette and Q-Ross added to the current roster of 2s and 3s, the Kings could be in a position to make further moves to bring in some help.
Call me greedy but I'd expect Minny's 1st rounder to be included with that package if I consider moving Artest. While Maggette is a nice player, he's not a difference maker that Artest CAN be. If we're trading within the division, we look to acquire AS much as possible from them in terms fo future assets because Ron-Ron is only 26 and Brand is still young. They could wreck havoc on us for YEAR'S to come.
Artest and Maggette have similar contracts, both (I think) with 2 years left. Maggette can play small forward, though at 6'6" he's a bit undersized at that position. But he would give us athleticism, a reliable 20+ points/game (when he's not hurt), and decent (though not stellar) defense. If he's starting, he might fit in nicely. But he's another guy who can't tolerate coming in off the bench - so he's got to be a starter or he's not worth it.
With Maggette being undersized at SF, there's no way I would field him and the undersized K9, plus Miller - who can't jump over his own shoes.
So Maggette might be something for us to look at, but it had better be just the first of 2 or 3 deals.
Artest for Maggette may be OK, but the player I'd really like to have from the Clippers is Yaroslav Korolev. He's an exciting prospect, though maybe 2 years away from helping anyone. But if we're in rebuilding mode, or even rebuilding on the fly, he's the type of player that we should be trying to develop. So if I'm GP, I'm looking at a package of Artest and ? that brings us Maggette and Korolev. At the same time, my other, more creative hand is on the phone trying to trade K9 & ? for a Gadzuric, a Jason Collins, or a Joel Pryzbilla. None of them are a long-term solution, but rather something to help us in the meantime.
With Maggette being undersized at SF, there's no way I would field him and the undersized K9, plus Miller - who can't jump over his own shoes.
So Maggette might be something for us to look at, but it had better be just the first of 2 or 3 deals.
Artest for Maggette may be OK, but the player I'd really like to have from the Clippers is Yaroslav Korolev. He's an exciting prospect, though maybe 2 years away from helping anyone. But if we're in rebuilding mode, or even rebuilding on the fly, he's the type of player that we should be trying to develop. So if I'm GP, I'm looking at a package of Artest and ? that brings us Maggette and Korolev. At the same time, my other, more creative hand is on the phone trying to trade K9 & ? for a Gadzuric, a Jason Collins, or a Joel Pryzbilla. None of them are a long-term solution, but rather something to help us in the meantime.
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While all this MAY come true, it just currently IS NOT true now. If you trade a player that is a proven difference maker and that still hasn't reached his prime. You clean the other team for all that they are worth. THey are the ones soliciting the trade, not us. That gives us the leverage. While Artest MAY implode, he HASN'T. The clippers are looking to deal Maggette...it's not the other way around. While Maggette is a good player in his own right, he's just not anywhere near the level of Artest is. Period. With that being said, the minny pick and Shaun Livingston could be enough incentive for us to ultimately pull the trigger. I'd even throw in Garcia if needs be(to give them a back-up SG).
I know the Clips were reluctant to give up Livingston for Iverson, but that's just a completely different situation. Iverson is a shoot first PG with a heft contract at the age of 31. Artest is a defensively dominant SF that can be a powerful offensive weapon at age 26. Artest is the better fit and player for their situation. That alone should warrant Livingston into the equation, rather than in the Iverson situation.
Artest
Hart
Garcia
for
Maggette
Livingston
Minny 07 1st rounder
and the Clippers have the player they covet. If not, we'll gladly keep him, because if Artest DOES melt-down, we can still always trade him for Maggette straight up at a later date.
I know the Clips were reluctant to give up Livingston for Iverson, but that's just a completely different situation. Iverson is a shoot first PG with a heft contract at the age of 31. Artest is a defensively dominant SF that can be a powerful offensive weapon at age 26. Artest is the better fit and player for their situation. That alone should warrant Livingston into the equation, rather than in the Iverson situation.
Artest
Hart
Garcia
for
Maggette
Livingston
Minny 07 1st rounder
and the Clippers have the player they covet. If not, we'll gladly keep him, because if Artest DOES melt-down, we can still always trade him for Maggette straight up at a later date.
You know what pisses me off about this...
Its almost like the Clippers are just saying this so it betters their chances of getting Artest. its the perfect plan... make him think that the Kings are trying to trade him, then he gets pissed off and doesn't want to play for us anymore, then they end up getting him for far less...
Its almost like the Clippers are just saying this so it betters their chances of getting Artest. its the perfect plan... make him think that the Kings are trying to trade him, then he gets pissed off and doesn't want to play for us anymore, then they end up getting him for far less...
I would imagine that Artest is sort of immune to trade talk, having been through all the other stuff he's been through.
My concern is that Ron-Ron has been on his best behavior since coming to the Kings. But his body language at times on the court, some of his comments about having to guard two guys at a time, the rather mysterious nature of some of his injuries, and the notion that this town ain't big enough for both he and Bibby (as evidenced by Voison's column today; I don't think she's making it up) may be warning signs that the dark side of Artest could become evident soon.
I'm not saying that Artest isn't right when he complains about his teammate's defense, or lack thereof, or that he should be featured in the offense. However, when he compares himself to LaBron and Kobe, I truly worry whether his elevator goes all the way to the penthouse.
My concern is that Ron-Ron has been on his best behavior since coming to the Kings. But his body language at times on the court, some of his comments about having to guard two guys at a time, the rather mysterious nature of some of his injuries, and the notion that this town ain't big enough for both he and Bibby (as evidenced by Voison's column today; I don't think she's making it up) may be warning signs that the dark side of Artest could become evident soon.
I'm not saying that Artest isn't right when he complains about his teammate's defense, or lack thereof, or that he should be featured in the offense. However, when he compares himself to LaBron and Kobe, I truly worry whether his elevator goes all the way to the penthouse.