Cleveland's collapse

Emma

Emma

Starter
#1
#1
Starting with Coach Brown's firing,
EDIT: then a refute from the owner, saying he ain't fired:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/05/14/brown/#ixzz0nvYacVy0
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5189101

It's just as fascinating to watch a complete collapse as it is to watch an incredible upswing. Brown's departure = less of a chance Lebron stays?

EDIT Does the uncertainty around the team lower Lebron's staying probability?

I think I'd like to track the franchise crumbling as it happens.
 
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ReinadelosReys

ReinadelosReys

Starter
#2
#2
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#3
#3
Firing Brown is the right move, timing is highly questionable - unless LeBron has personally demanded it. But odds are LeBron will butt heads with the new coach the way MJ and Kobe did with Phil Jackson.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#7
#7
ryanandty said:
They really need to stop. That would make me so embarrassed for them that I would have to leave. That's like a psycho girl (or boy) friend.
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The guy's a generational player, think about how we were when Webber was a free agent and he may not even make the hall of fame. Cleveland's sports psyche may even be more fragile than Sacramento's with all the colossal chokes they've pulled through the years on top of the original Browns team bolting and then almost immediately winning a super bowl.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
#8
Wonder how they handle Ferry -- he should be dumped too, but there is one possible silver lining, and its something he has set up -- Cleveland has the ability to sign not only LeBron but another max player themselves this summer. They could get a Bosh, or an Amare, or a Boozer or somebody. Would nto be fair to fire him just as the master plan comes to fruition. On the other hand if its collapsing you can't afford to keep him given that he's the reason.

As an aside, firing Brown was obvious, but there is no Phil Jackson on the market, unless the other Brown (Mr. Happy Feet down in Charlotte) counts. So who is the legendary coach with clout they can swap in there to save the day?
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#11
#11
ryanandty said:
They really need to stop. That would make me so embarrassed for them that I would have to leave. That's like a psycho girl (or boy) friend.
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More embarrassing than a big billboard by the Maloofs, saying they will mow Webber's lawn, if he stays? (basically begging)

Actually I kind of liked the video. No harm in the fans letting him know how much he means to them. It's LeBron's home state, too.
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#13
#13
Bricklayer said:
Wonder how they handle Ferry -- he should be dumped too, but there is one possible silver lining, and its something he has set up -- Cleveland has the ability to sign not only LeBron but another max player themselves this summer. They could get a Bosh, or an Amare, or a Boozer or somebody.
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Cavs actually have cap space? Aren't they at around $100 million for payroll?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#16
#16
I'm pretty sure LeBron's salary counts against the cap unless they renounce his rights. Goes back to at least the late 90s where teams circumvented the cap this way, see Juwan Howard going to the Heat.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#17
#17
KMart23 said:
snaq is coming off the books. if they hold off on resigning lebron (since they have his bird rights) they can sign a max player or two and then resign lebron but they would be way over the cap by then.
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No they can't. At the minimum they have about $41.5M of salary committed - that's if they cut Delonte West (only $500K guaranteed of $4.5M) and Sebastian Telfair somehow declines his $2.7M option. At that unlikely point, they have about $14.5M in cap space --- IF they renounce their rights to all of their free agents. That includes LeBron. Obviously Shaq and Szczerbiak have huge cap holds (over $40M between them), but it would be an easy decision to renounce their rights. Ilguaskas, Jawad Williams, Leon Powe and Lorenzen Wright also have renounceable cap holds.

But the fly in the ointment here is LeBron. He's got a $16.5M cap hold which puts the Cavaliers over the salary cap until they either resign him (at which point we can assume they'd once again be over the cap), or until he signs with another team. Either they resign LeBron, or they have $14.5M in cap space (enough for one not-quite-max player). Not both. They can't sign a near-max player not named Lebron without losing LeBron. And they definitely can't sign two near-max players, no matter what.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#18
#18
The question really is who replaces Brown. You need someone who can get an offense into there without dumping the whole defensive mentality that Cleveland now has. I don't think Calipari is an answer. I don't think JVG is or that JVG will want to leave the broadcast booth. There's Avery Johnson and . . .what?
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
Wonder how they handle Ferry -- he should be dumped too, but there is one possible silver lining, and its something he has set up -- Cleveland has the ability to sign not only LeBron but another max player themselves this summer. They could get a Bosh, or an Amare, or a Boozer or somebody. Would nto be fair to fire him just as the master plan comes to fruition. On the other hand if its collapsing you can't afford to keep him given that he's the reason.

As an aside, firing Brown was obvious, but there is no Phil Jackson on the market, unless the other Brown (Mr. Happy Feet down in Charlotte) counts. So who is the legendary coach with clout they can swap in there to save the day?
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They need to give Pat Riley a call.
 
tradepeja

tradepeja

Starter
#20
#20
Capt. Factorial said:
No they can't. At the minimum they have about $41.5M of salary committed - that's if they cut Delonte West (only $500K guaranteed of $4.5M) and Sebastian Telfair somehow declines his $2.7M option. At that unlikely point, they have about $14.5M in cap space --- IF they renounce their rights to all of their free agents. That includes LeBron. Obviously Shaq and Szczerbiak have huge cap holds (over $40M between them), but it would be an easy decision to renounce their rights. Ilguaskas, Jawad Williams, Leon Powe and Lorenzen Wright also have renounceable cap holds.

But the fly in the ointment here is LeBron. He's got a $16.5M cap hold which puts the Cavaliers over the salary cap until they either resign him (at which point we can assume they'd once again be over the cap), or until he signs with another team. Either they resign LeBron, or they have $14.5M in cap space (enough for one not-quite-max player). Not both. They can't sign a near-max player not named Lebron without losing LeBron. And they definitely can't sign two near-max players, no matter what.
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It calms my mind to know that Kingsfans actually has a few people that know what the hell they are talking about
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
#21
Chupacabra said:
They need to give Pat Riley a call.
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Was kind of thinking the same thing after his hint about maybe coaching again, but would he actually betray Miami and trade in his Heat position (and isn't he part owner there now too?). There is also this: Pat Riely is perhaps the greatest big man coach in NBA history. He believes in the value of the foundational big in the middle above and beyond all else, and all of his teams always features the stud center -- Kareem, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq. Could he, would he, win a title or even want to try built around a SF?
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#22
#22
Bricklayer said:
As an aside, firing Brown was obvious, but there is no Phil Jackson on the market, unless the other Brown (Mr. Happy Feet down in Charlotte) counts. So who is the legendary coach with clout they can swap in there to save the day?
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Might not need one. Hell, Alvin Gentry saved the day in Phoenix. This is the guy that got fired by the Clippers to make way for Mike Dunleavy. Had no clout at all, whatsoever, so much so that he was an assistant for five years, got passed up for the Suns job, then took over on an interim basis after the highly sought after big name coach got fired in the middle of the season. Has less than a year and a half under his belt as the coach, has already exorcised some long-standing demons, and now has a chance to make the Finals and possibly win a 'ship.

Not saying that the Cavs can just plug anyone in there, but I don't think that they need to grab some big name coach in order to improve the coaching situation. It's been said for the past three seasons that Mike Brown isn't a good coach. All they need to do is hire someone who is decent in order to improve, and when you have the best player in the NBA and a sensible roster, that's probably good enough.
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#23
#23
kingsnation said:
Gilbert stated their staying with Brown:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5189101
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Team owner Dan Gilbert refuted an SI.com report Friday that Brown had been fired.
"That's not true," he said during a news conference. "We are right now just going through the evaluation process."
He said the team expects to have answers in the next week to 10 days.


"I don't think it's a secret coaching is one of the things we'll look at," Gilbert said.
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Wasn't really a huge endorsement.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#24
#24
Bricklayer said:
Was kind of thinking the same thing after his hint about maybe coaching again, but would he actually betray Miami and trade in his Heat position (and isn't he part owner there now too?). There is also this: Pat Riely is perhaps the greatest big man coach in NBA history. He believes in the value of the foundational big in the middle above and beyond all else, and all of his teams always features the stud center -- Kareem, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq. Could he, would he, win a title or even want to try built around a SF?
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Only reason i thought of him is because hes the only former coach that isnt currently coaching that has championship experience while coaching superstar talent. Aside from the big man thing (cleveland has enough cap room this summer to get one) hed be ideal for them.
 
E

eflat

Bench
#30
#30
Chupacabra said:
Only reason i thought of him is because hes the only former coach that isnt currently coaching that has championship experience while coaching superstar talent. Aside from the big man thing (cleveland has enough cap room this summer to get one) hed be ideal for them.
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Phil Jackson could be available, at least in theory. I don't think he's under contract after this year. The possibility of winning rings with MJ, Shaq, Kobe, and LB could be enticing.
 
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