[CHI/DET] Bulls vs Pistons

[Superman]

Hinrich must have scheduled an early vacation or something, because he doesn't seem interested in helping his team win.

 

[Kstat]

22, 7 and 3 for Webber, and he barely played half the game.

 

[love_them_kings]

22, 7 and 3 for Webber, and he barely played half the game.

Yeah, he looked good out there. Detroit's looking good, I hope they can keep it up on the road.

Is it my imagination, or does Detroit look much better than they did in the last series? Maybe it's just the style of play, but they seem to be more fun to watch.

 

[4cwebb]

Yep. Sucks.

Webber could have been on pace for 30...oh well.

Chicago's gotten a TON of breaks tonight, and they're still down 17. That's embarrassing.

CWebb must have been feeling it tonight...every jump hook basically was nothing but net. Too bad he was limited by foul trouble, but a solid win for the Pistons is a solid win.

 

[KP]

Webb going off in the playoffs, shocker. Against Big Ben and some young long athletic bigs no less... Looks washed up to me...

 

[Superman]

Webb going off in the playoffs, shocker. Against Big Ben and some young long athletic bigs no less... Looks washed up to me...

He's definitely not washed up, but you can tell how much it helps him being on a good team that doesn't expect him to earn his $17 million every night.

 

[Kstat]

BTW, C-Webb now holds the Pistons franchise playoff record for highest %FG in a game (%90.9) with a minimum of 10 attempts (10/11).

 

[4cwebb]

He's definitely not washed up, but you can tell how much it helps him being on a good team that doesn't expect him to earn his $17 million every night.

It also helps that he's on a team that shares the ball on offense instead of relying on one person to create opportunities for everyone else.

 

[love_them_kings]

I'm not surprised that Webb is playing well. People seem to forget that Webb was player of the month the month before he was traded to Philly. Since that time he seems to have, if anything, gotten healthier. Granted he's a couple years older, but he's also had longer to recuperate after the surgery. He was playing well on the Kings. The system in Philly never made the most of his abilities. He's playing well on Detroit.

Face it, Webb may not be in the prime of his career, but he still has something left in the tank.

 

[VF21]

BTW, C-Webb now holds the Pistons franchise playoff record for highest %FG in a game (%90.9) with a minimum of 10 attempts (10/11).

WTG, Webb!!! And way to go, Pistons!! I don't see Chicago pulling off any kind of miraculous recovery so it looks like Webber is going to the ECF.

 

[Kstat]

Webb just didn't have it tonight, but the beauty of this team is that we still have the capability to lock down defensively like we used to be able to.

It sucks Webber typically has to sit when we turn up the defensive pressure, but it doesn't mean he isn't a major part of our team.

 

[sloter]

And you get him fresh for the next game. I think it was a great move by Saunders to rest him in a game where they didn't really need him.
Pistons are beautiful to watch.

 

[love_them_kings]

Webb just didn't have it tonight, but the beauty of this team is that we still have the capability to lock down defensively like we used to be able to.

It sucks Webber typically has to sit when we turn up the defensive pressure, but it doesn't mean he isn't a major part of our team.

Detroit is pretty amazing. I hadn't watched much Detroit basketball much before Webb joined the team, but I have really enjoyed watching them. The Bulls have got to be pretty confused, it's hard to stop a team when you don't know where the scoring is going to come from or who is going to be "the man" on any given night.

Webb was definitely off tonight, and obviously he isn't one of your better defenders, but I still hate to see him sit.

 

[VF21]

And you get him fresh for the next game. I think it was a great move by Saunders to rest him in a game where they didn't really need him.
Pistons are beautiful to watch.

You and I don't agree often, sloter, so I was a little surprised to find myself in total agreement.

 

[4cwebb]

Webb just didn't have it tonight, but the beauty of this team is that we still have the capability to lock down defensively like we used to be able to.

It sucks Webber typically has to sit when we turn up the defensive pressure, but it doesn't mean he isn't a major part of our team.

Pistons with a gutsy win tonight, and Flip shortened the bench extremely. Did anyone play any meaningful minutes in the second half other than the starting 5 and McDyess? I missed the 4th quarter entirely.

CWebb didn't have anything tonight, and I don't think he was terribly disciplined in his offensive approach...in Game 2 he worked inside, then out. In Game 3 he couldn't get going at all, and started settling for jump shots, and they weren't falling. McDyess is more active on defense than CWebb, so I can't blame Flip at all for sitting him the rest of the way once the team got going with those 5 players.

 

[kennadog]

WTG, Webb!!! And way to go, Pistons!! I don't see Chicago pulling off any kind of miraculous recovery so it looks like Webber is going to the ECF.

I'm so happy for Webber.

 

[VF21]

Let's go, Pistons!!!

 

[acisking]

Back to back 0 point games for Webb...and for the second time straight, the coach went with McDyess instead of Webber. All of this after a very impressive 22 point performance by Webb in game 2...wonder what in the world is going on.

 

[love_them_kings]

Back to back 0 point games for Webb...and for the second time straight, the coach went with McDyess instead of Webber. All of this after a very impressive 22 point performance by Webb in game 2...wonder what in the world is going on.

my thoughts exactly. If he's only going to give Webb 14 minutes to produce or jerk him out of the game, that's not really giving him much to work with. I was disappointed that Webb didn't see more time today.

 

[Bricklayer]

Back to back 0 point games for Webb...and for the second time straight, the coach went with McDyess instead of Webber. All of this after a very impressive 22 point performance by Webb in game 2...wonder what in the world is going on.

Webb did not look good either game, but I certainly think the Pistons struggles with those back to back gooseeggs are predictable -- pre-Webb's arrival, they weren't that good. They've got the series anyway, and the East is so weak they likely have the conference. But Pistons essentially without Webb aren't much better than the Bulls or Cavs. He has to show up, and they have to give him a chance to show up, for them to truly formidable.

 

[love_them_kings]

Webb did not look good either game, but I certainly think the Pistons struggles with those back to back gooseeggs are predictable -- pre-Webb's arrival, they weren't that good. They've got the series anyway, and the East is so weak they likely have the conference. But Pistons essentially without Webb aren't much better than the Bulls or Cavs. He has to show up, and they have to give him a chance to show up, for them to truly formidable.

Yeah, I guess it's just all in how you define giving him a chance to show up. Personally, 14 minutes just doesn't seem like a fair shot, especially once it gets in your head that you only have 14 minutes to prove yourself or you're out. And I agree, Detroit without Webb is a good team, but it wasn't until they added Webb that they started to look like something really special. Not that Webb is their savior, but Webb is the kind of player that can make everyone else better.

I don't know. I will wait & watch, but if Webb starts to feel like this is Philly all over again things are going to get ugly and Detroit may never really reach their full potential this year.

 

[Kstat]

oh good lord, it's two games. Get off the ledge people.

 

[acisking]

oh good lord, it's two games. Get off the ledge people.

It may be two games, but it continues to echo something I've noticed since Webber got the flu/pneumonia at the end of the season: Flip tends to favor Dyess down the stretch. The thing that Love Them Kings was pointing out was that, if you give a player 14 minutes to prove themselves...then they will start playing for themselves. That really works against Detroit's style and moreover it takes away Webb's ability to create for others. The beauty of his game at its best is that he can find the cutters two or three times before taking it in himself. It isn't hard to imagine a Webber pressed for minutes just trying to score so he can get minutes down the stretch. This is further compounded by the fact that Webb doesn't really even get than many plays ru for him to prove himself with. Especially in this series, where Webb could really do some damage against Ben (who is primarily known as an off the ball defender), its sad to see him being underused. In any case, I agree with Brick when he points out that Webber is what made the team a noticeable leap above the Bulls, Cavs, Heat and Nets....the Pistons would be foolish to forget that.

 

[Kstat]

Flip favors Dice when we get down by 20. There's a difference.

When we need offense, we go with Webber. When we need defense, we go with Dice it's really that simple.

 

[BMiller52]

oh good lord, it's two games. Get off the ledge people.

+1. It's not the end of the world for Webber. His open jumpers have been missing and he hasn't been playing well. He'll play better back in Detroit and get more minutes.

 

[4cwebb]

It may be two games, but it continues to echo something I've noticed since Webber got the flu/pneumonia at the end of the season: Flip tends to favor Dyess down the stretch. The thing that Love Them Kings was pointing out was that, if you give a player 14 minutes to prove themselves...then they will start playing for themselves. That really works against Detroit's style and moreover it takes away Webb's ability to create for others. The beauty of his game at its best is that he can find the cutters two or three times before taking it in himself. It isn't hard to imagine a Webber pressed for minutes just trying to score so he can get minutes down the stretch. This is further compounded by the fact that Webb doesn't really even get than many plays ru for him to prove himself with. Especially in this series, where Webb could really do some damage against Ben (who is primarily known as an off the ball defender), its sad to see him being underused. In any case, I agree with Brick when he points out that Webber is what made the team a noticeable leap above the Bulls, Cavs, Heat and Nets....the Pistons would be foolish to forget that.

I wasn't able to watch most of the first quarter of this game, but I think CWebb a good chunk of minutes in the 1st quarter with the rest of the starters (probably about 10 minutes), and he didn't really produce in any area.

He sat for the entire 2nd quarter, then started the 2nd half, and made a couple of bad plays on offense (couldn't finish in the post against Ben and rumbled down the lane for a charge). The rest of the Pistons weren't doing much, either, and the Bulls had quickly pushed the lead into double digits, at which point Flip needed to move to the zone defense, and CWebb isn't the best at patrolling the middle with all of the Bulls cutters, etc. He wasn't on the floor for the Pistons' resurgence in Game 3, either, so I wasn't too surprised with the substitution pattern tonight.

My only worry about this is that CWebb mumbles something to a reporter about his time that gets picked up. I'm hoping he just keeps his head down and realizes that for whatever reason, he didn't have his game working the last two games, but he should be well rested for Game 5 and ready to bring Game 2 CWebb back to the equation to help the Pistons close out the series.

 

[love_them_kings]

It may be two games, but it continues to echo something I've noticed since Webber got the flu/pneumonia at the end of the season: Flip tends to favor Dyess down the stretch. The thing that Love Them Kings was pointing out was that, if you give a player 14 minutes to prove themselves...then they will start playing for themselves. That really works against Detroit's style and moreover it takes away Webb's ability to create for others. The beauty of his game at its best is that he can find the cutters two or three times before taking it in himself. It isn't hard to imagine a Webber pressed for minutes just trying to score so he can get minutes down the stretch. This is further compounded by the fact that Webb doesn't really even get than many plays ru for him to prove himself with. Especially in this series, where Webb could really do some damage against Ben (who is primarily known as an off the ball defender), its sad to see him being underused. In any case, I agree with Brick when he points out that Webber is what made the team a noticeable leap above the Bulls, Cavs, Heat and Nets....the Pistons would be foolish to forget that.

And, (although I don't think anyone is really on a ledge ) , it may only be two games, but it's 25% of the Pistons playoff games, and the two most recent games. It's two of only THREE games in Webb's career that he hasn't scored a point.

I think acisking said it well. My concern is that giving someone like Webb 14 minutes to prove a game doesn't allow Webb to really play his game. I can't see how that would benefit Webb or the team to keep him on a leash that short.

And, if Webb is only is when they need offense, and not defense, than what is Flip doing? When I turned on the game it seems like they were down by around 20. I would think you'd need a little offense to catch up.

Anyway, I don't pretend to be objective. I am a Webber fan, and only a Detroit fan this season because I'd like to see Webb get a ring. I just don't want to see him get it from the bench.

 

[love_them_kings]

I wasn't able to watch most of the first quarter of this game, but I think CWebb a good chunk of minutes in the 1st quarter with the rest of the starters (probably about 10 minutes), and he didn't really produce in any area.

He sat for the entire 2nd quarter, then started the 2nd half, and made a couple of bad plays on offense (couldn't finish in the post against Ben and rumbled down the lane for a charge). The rest of the Pistons weren't doing much, either, and the Bulls had quickly pushed the lead into double digits, at which point Flip needed to move to the zone defense, and CWebb isn't the best at patrolling the middle with all of the Bulls cutters, etc. He wasn't on the floor for the Pistons' resurgence in Game 3, either, so I wasn't too surprised with the substitution pattern tonight.

My only worry about this is that CWebb mumbles something to a reporter about his time that gets picked up. I'm hoping he just keeps his head down and realizes that for whatever reason, he didn't have his game working the last two games, but he should be well rested for Game 5 and ready to bring Game 2 CWebb back to the equation to help the Pistons close out the series.

I understand Webb hasn't played well the last two games. I just question if 14 minutes is enough to really execute the type of game he plays.

I worry about Webb getting disgruntled and putting his foot in his mouth as well...

 

[Superman]

Flip favors Dice when we get down by 20. There's a difference.

When we need offense, we go with Webber. When we need defense, we go with Dice it's really that simple.

When you're down by 20 points, you need offense, don't you?

I understand going with McDyess when you're putting a premium on getting stops, but freezing out a guy who can make everything easier for his teammates on the offensive end seems counter-productive. The Pistons are noticeably more efficient on offense when Webber plays, and offensive efficiency often contributes to better defense. Especially on the road, against a team that isn't ever going to rely on their ability to outscore.

Now, if he's simply not having a good game, then that's different, but how can you determine that someone isn't having a good game based on 3 shot attempts in 14 minutes? It's not like anyone else was getting the job done. Rasheed shot more three pointers yesterday than the Pistons normally shoot as a team. The offense was stagnant, and the Bulls were able to take advantage of it. Benching Webber was probably not the best way to try to make something happen.

They'll probably close this series out at the Palace tomorrow night, but they have to get their offense together.

 

[Kstat]

When you're down by 20 points, you need offense, don't you?

You need defense more than offense. All offense does is allow you to trade baskets for the rest of the game and still lose.

Benching Webber was probably not the best way to try to make something happen.

Worked like a charm in game 3.