Charlotte & Dallas Trade

twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
CHA Gets: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
CHA Gives: Jeremy Lamb & Spencer Hawes
Why for CHA? Koufos gives them a good defensive C who can start next to Williams and protect the paint. With Kaminsky's ability to shoot the 3, Hawes' skillset is expendable. And with Batum, Gilchrist, Belinelli, Williams, and McLemore able to pick-up minutes at SG & SF, Lamb won't be missed all that much either.

PG - Walker / Sessions / Roberts
SG - Gilchrist / Belinelli / McLemore
SF - Batum
PF - Williams / Kaminsky / Wood
C - Koufos / Zeller / Hibbert

-----------------------------------------------------------

DAL Gets: Spencer Hawes
DAL Gives: Devin Harris
Why for DAL? With Barea & Curry also able to play backup PG, Harris is expendable. Moving Harris for a stretch 5 gives them a change of pace for when Bogut needs a break. Also, with Bogut's injury history, it's probably a good idea for the Mavs to add another capable center to their roster.

PG - Williams / Barea / Curry
SG - Matthews / Gibson
SF - Barnes / Anderson
PF - Nowitzki / Powell / Acy
C - Bogut / Hawes / Mejri / Hammons

-----------------------------------------------------------

SAC Gets: Jeremy Lamb & Devin Harris
SAC Gives: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Why for SAC? Moving Koufos frees up the logjam at C allowing Cauley-Stein to get all of the backup C minutes which frees up minutes at PF that can go to Casspi.

We also add a decent backup PG that should be good insurance in case Collison's suspension is long or if he goes down with an injury. Harris & Temple should be adequate when Collison isn't able to go.

However, Lamb is the real prize. It gives us another long, athletic, and defensive wing (who is still just 24). Despite last year, he's supposed to be a good shooter from three and still has the ability to become a 3 & D type player on a very friendly contract. Lastly, he can also provide a scoring punch off the bench (averages 17 PPG per36).

With Lamb under contract for the next 3 years, the Kings could potentially waive Afflalo next season, start Lamb, and have Bogdanovic & Richardson battle it out for backup minutes next year. Lamb, Bogdanovic, & Richardson would be a very cheap (allowing us to spend our cap space elsewhere) & young SG rotation with good upside. Not to mention all have reputations for being good shooters while possessing great size.

Lamb: 6'5" w/ 6'11" wingspan & 8'6" standing reach
Bogdanovic: 6'6" w/ 6'11" wingspan & 8'8" standing reach
Richardson: 6'6" w/ 7'0" wingspan & 8'6" standing reach

PG - Collison / Temple / Harris / Cousins
SG - Afflalo / Lamb / Richardson
SF - Gay / Casspi / Barnes
PF - Cauley-Stein / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
 
twslam07 said:
CHA Gets: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
CHA Gives: Jeremy Lamb & Spencer Hawes
Why for CHA? Koufos gives them a good defensive C who can start next to Williams and protect the paint. With Kaminsky's ability to shoot the 3, Hawes' skillset is expendable. And with Batum, Gilchrist, Belinelli, Williams, and McLemore able to pick-up minutes at SG & SF, Lamb won't be missed all that much either.

PG - Walker / Sessions / Roberts
SG - Gilchrist / Belinelli / McLemore
SF - Batum
PF - Williams / Kaminsky / Wood
C - Koufos / Zeller / Hibbert

-----------------------------------------------------------

DAL Gets: Spencer Hawes
DAL Gives: Devin Harris
Why for DAL? With Barea & Curry also able to play backup PG, Harris is expendable. Moving Harris for a stretch 5 gives them a change of pace for when Bogut needs a break. Also, with Bogut's injury history, it's probably a good idea for the Mavs to add another capable center to their roster.

PG - Williams / Barea / Curry
SG - Matthews / Gibson
SF - Barnes / Anderson
PF - Nowitzki / Powell / Acy
C - Bogut / Hawes / Mejri / Hammons

-----------------------------------------------------------

SAC Gets: Jeremy Lamb & Devin Harris
SAC Gives: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Why for SAC? Moving Koufos frees up the logjam at C allowing Cauley-Stein to get all of the backup C minutes which frees up minutes at PF that can go to Casspi.

We also add a decent backup PG that should be good insurance in case Collison's suspension is long or if he goes down with an injury. Harris & Temple should be adequate when Collison isn't able to go.

However, Lamb is the real prize. It gives us another long, athletic, and defensive wing (who is still just 24). Despite last year, he's supposed to be a good shooter from three and still has the ability to become a 3 & D type player on a very friendly contract. Lastly, he can also provide a scoring punch off the bench (averages 17 PPG per36).

With Lamb under contract for the next 3 years, the Kings could potentially waive Afflalo next season, start Lamb, and have Bogdanovic & Richardson battle it out for backup minutes next year. Lamb, Bogdanovic, & Richardson would be a very cheap (allowing us to spend our cap space elsewhere) & young SG rotation with good upside. Not to mention all have reputations for being good shooters while possessing great size.

Lamb: 6'5" w/ 6'11" wingspan & 8'6" standing reach
Bogdanovic: 6'6" w/ 6'11" wingspan & 8'8" standing reach
Richardson: 6'6" w/ 7'0" wingspan & 8'6" standing reach

PG - Collison / Temple / Harris / Cousins
SG - Afflalo / Lamb / Richardson
SF - Gay / Casspi / Barnes
PF - Cauley-Stein / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
Click to expand...


I don't think Koufus will get traded now. I cannot see Papa contributing next year enough to trade Kosta.
 
KingsFan80 said:
I don't think Koufus will get traded now. I cannot see Papa contributing next year enough to trade Kosta.
Click to expand...
Trading Koufos does not equal Papagiannis getting minutes.

PG - Collison (32 min) / Temple (16 min) / Harris / Cousins
SG - Afflalo (26 min) / Lamb (18 min) / Temple (4 min) / Richardson
SF - Gay (32 min) / Casspi (10 min) / Lamb (6 min) / Barnes
PF - Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Tolliver (18 min) / Casspi (16 min) / Labissiere
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis

Cousins - 36 min
Gay - 32 min
Collison - 32 min
Afflalo - 26 min
Cauley-Stein - 26 min
Casspi - 26 min
Lamb - 24 min
Temple - 20 min
Tolliver - 18 min
 
Last edited:
Nah...

Trading Ben for Lamb is pretty much a wash talent and legitimacy wise and Ben is a whole lot cheaper.

Essentially, you are trading KK for a over the hill PG, Devin Harris.

I'd pass on this trade and just sign one of the available free agent point guards, i.e. Beno, Cole or Douglass, which will cost you no assets.
 
ockingsfan said:
Nah...

Trading Ben for Lamb is pretty much a wash talent and legitimacy wise and Ben is a whole lot cheaper.

Essentially, you are trading KK for a over the hill PG, Devin Harris.

I'd pass on this trade and just sign one of the available free agent point guards, i.e. Beno, Cole or Douglass, which will cost you no assets.
Click to expand...

Lamb RPM: +1.00
McLemore RPM: -2.02

Lamb RAPM: +1.00
McLemore RAPM: -2.90


Lamb is the better asset and has already shown that he's a good defender while still having good potential. McLemore is still all potential at this point.
 
twslam07 said:
Trading Koufos does not equal Papagiannis getting minutes.

PG - Collison (32 min) / Temple (16 min) / Harris / Cousins
SG - Afflalo (26 min) / Lamb (18 min) / Temple (4 min) / Richardson
SF - Gay (32 min) / Casspi (10 min) / Lamb (6 min) / Barnes
PF - Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Tolliver (18 min) / Casspi (16 min) / Labissiere
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / Papagiannis

Cousins - 36 min
Gay - 32 min
Collison - 32 min
Afflalo - 26 min
Cauley-Stein - 26 min
Casspi - 26 min
Lamb - 24 min
Temple - 20 min
Tolliver - 18 min
Click to expand...
I am coming around on Temple, but I cannot get there on Tolliver. 18 min? I hope not. I would rather see WCS play more minutes.
 
KingsFan80 said:
I am coming around on Temple, but I cannot get there on Tolliver. 18 min? I hope not. I would rather see WCS play more minutes.
Click to expand...

Wait until Tolliver D's up his man and forces a bad shot then grabs the board. Then on the other end buries a three. That is what he does:

 
twslam07 said:
Lamb RPM: +1.00
McLemore RPM: -2.02

Lamb RAPM: +1.00
McLemore RAPM: -2.90


Lamb is the better asset and has already shown that he's a good defender while still having good potential. McLemore is still all potential at this point.
Click to expand...
I don't think Lamb is better. Lamb had a real shot to be the future SG of OKC. He got beat out by Andre Roberson who probably can't even make half his 3s in an open gym.

It's funny people bag on McLemore's lack of bball IQ.... I haven't seen you mention Lamb's. Lamb has poor bball IQ too.
Look what AtTheHive had to say about him before the playoffs in April, the article was titled:
Jeremy Lamb's regular season performance won't get him playing time in the NBA Playoffs
Click to expand...
Here's what the writer said,
For whatever reason, whether its botching a defensive rotation, not knowing an offensive set, missing a box out, or taking a bad shot, Lamb’s issues — like many players — look from the outside to be originating from between his ears. A shame really, considering he has the physical tools that someone like the aforementioned Daniels will never have, and the skillset and ease-of-play that guys like his former teammate P.J. Hairston probably never will.
Click to expand...

Here's another tidbit they wrote about him in late May,
Furthermore, ESPN's real plus-minus, which should account for the lack of strength of Lamb's usual opposition (seeing as he mostly faces second units), has the wing as the sixth best defensive shooting guard in the league, according to DRPM (defensive real plus-minus).

Personally, I would still take that data with a grain of salt. The eye-test doesn't speak well of Lamb's performance on defense. His trouble with screens or even getting blown past on a drive can get bad, yes, but Lamb is also prone of major mental lapses. He can get completely lost on defense to the degree that he just can't find his man. Sometimes he'll space out and forget about him just for so long that he match-up can get an open shot:
Click to expand...

I think we're watching different Jeremy Lambs here. From the Jeremy Lamb I've seen, he doesn't look timid, but he takes dumb shots. He doesn't have the highest bball IQ. He has a long wingspan, but he's far from a good defender. I'd probably put Ben a bit above him.

I guess this could be for a change of scenery for both players? Remember that OKC basically traded him for a 2nd round pick and the salary dump of Luke Ridnour.

Lamb is all potential at this point too. He's proven nothing in his career thus far.
 
King Baller said:
Wait until Tolliver D's up his man and forces a bad shot then grabs the board. Then on the other end buries a three. That is what he does:

Click to expand...
I am not sure if this post is a joke or serious. But any player who averages 5PPg and 3RB while playing 18 minute with the Pistons should not be playing 18MPG
 
KingsFan80 said:
I am not sure if this post is a joke or serious. But any player who averages 5PPg and 3RB while playing 18 minute with the Pistons should not be playing 18MPG
Click to expand...

You are funny:)

The Detroit Pistons posted a 44 wins vs 38 losses record and were the 8th seed in the East. Tolliver played 18 MPG and scored 5.3 points and grabbed 3.2 boards in a bench role.

The new Suns starting PF Jared Dudley played 25.9 MPG for the non-playoff Wizards and scored 7.9 points and grabbed 3.5 boards.
 
King Baller said:
You are funny:)

The Detroit Pistons posted a 44 wins vs 38 losses record and were the 8th seed in the East. Tolliver played 18 MPG and scored 5.3 points and grabbed 3.2 boards in a bench role.

The new Suns starting PF Jared Dudley played 25.9 MPG for the non-playoff Wizards and scored 7.9 points and grabbed 3.5 boards.
Click to expand...
Spin it like a washing machine..see, we will. I am tired of players like him getting signed on the Kings and then we suck. He is a garbage player. Until we upgrade the talent it will be the same song and dance.
 
KingsFan80 said:
I am not sure if this post is a joke or serious. But any player who averages 5PPg and 3RB while playing 18 minute with the Pistons should not be playing 18MPG
Click to expand...
Value isnt just his points rebounds and stats. Teams defend diferently when tolliver is on the floor. There's a reason those guys get minutes
 
King Baller said:
We disagree on Tolliver. But by not answering my question you answered it:)
Click to expand...
Because it is a stupid question. He gets paid to play basketball and it is not my fault he sucks. He probably knows that by looking at his own stats so there is no reason why I would need to tell him. He has played for like 10 teams in 8 years.
 
DesertFox said:
Value isnt just his points rebounds and stats. Teams defend diferently when tolliver is on the floor. There's a reason those guys get minutes
Click to expand...
Ok, so who is going to score when this lineup is in the game? The Kings don't have that luxury. We need scorers!

Temple, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
 
KingsFan80 said:
Ok, so who is going to score when this lineup is in the game? The Kings don't have that luxury. We need scorers!

Temple, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Click to expand...
What makes you think Joerger will even play that lineup or if he does play that lineup, what makes you think he will play it for extended minutes? You do understand that coaches sub players and not lineups, right?
 
DesertFox said:
Value isnt just his points rebounds and stats. Teams defend diferently when tolliver is on the floor. There's a reason those guys get minutes
Click to expand...

Not really. Hes far fron a defensive stopper. If he was, a stretch 4 who could defend wouldnt have had to sign with us to get a contract.

Hes a great teammate and a good shooter for 4. Everything else he brings is pretty poor
 
KingsFan80 said:
Because it is a stupid question. He gets paid to play basketball and it is not my fault he sucks. He probably knows that by looking at his own stats so there is no reason why I would need to tell him. He has played for like 10 teams in 8 years.
Click to expand...

You continue to answer it by not answering it:)
 
The_Jamal said:
Not really. Hes far fron a defensive stopper. If he was, a stretch 4 who could defend wouldnt have had to sign with us to get a contract.

Hes a great teammate and a good shooter for 4. Everything else he brings is pretty poor
Click to expand...
He's not a stopper but he's far from a poor defender.
 
King Baller said:
You continue to answer it by not answering it:)
Click to expand...
Don't worry, when your boy Tolliver, who is the second coming of Kevin Durant, doesn't make the all-star game next year I will make sure to point it out

Ladies and Gentlemen we are paying this guy $8 mil person but praise Lord Vlade as he does no wrong:

https://hoopshabit.com/2016/07/30/sacramento-kings-2016-offseason-grades/6/

At this point, Tolliver is that player every team adds on a cost-effective deal and thinks it’s a great addition because this time around, he’ll have something to contribute. Only it’s never happened, and if it didn’t happen for a Stan Van Gundy Detroit Pistons team that was ideally suited for a stretch-4, it probably won’t happen amidst the chaos that is the Kings franchise.

Sure, Dave Joerger is a great coach, but aside from being a solid locker room guy, Tolliver’s one trademark skill — three-point shooting — has hovered around the 36 percent mark for two seasons now. Perhaps he’ll find his footing in the unlikeliest of places, but for now, this is a bit of a nothing signing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
twslam07 said:
What makes you think Joerger will even play that lineup or if he does play that lineup, what makes you think he will play it for extended minutes? You do understand that coaches sub players and not lineups, right?
Click to expand...

Ok find your combo then regardless who is going to score? because Cousins cannot play the whole game? Maybe the last one? Tolliver and his 3PPG won't get it done

Collison, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Affalo, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Temple, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, Affalo, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, McLemore, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, Affalo, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Affalo, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
 
KingsFan80 said:
Ok find your combo then regardless who is going to score? because Cousins cannot play the whole game? Maybe the last one? Tolliver and his 3PPG won't get it done

Collison, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Affalo, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Temple, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, Affalo, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, McLemore, Barnes, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, McLemore, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
Temple, Affalo, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
Collison, Affalo, Gay, Tolliver, WCS
Click to expand...

Collison, Afflalo, & Gay can all score. Problem solved...

EDIT: Tolliver and his 3 PPG won't get it done? Making up stats to try and fit your narrative is a slippery slope and one I have no problem pushing you down. Please tell me where this 3 PPG comes from?
 
KingsFan80 said:
Don't worry, when your boy Tolliver, who is the second coming of Kevin Durant, doesn't make the all-star game next year I will make sure to point it out

Ladies and Gentlemen we are paying this guy $8 mil person but praise Lord Vlade as he does no wrong:

https://hoopshabit.com/2016/07/30/sacramento-kings-2016-offseason-grades/6/
Click to expand...

Well, jeez, if the great Gerald Bourguet gives the Tolliver signing a "C", that totally validates negative post after negative post after negative post aimed at a bench player who hasn't played a single game for the Kings yet.

Frankly, I'd love to meet and congratulate whoever it is who has been pissing in your Cheerios every single day because he's doing a bang-up job of it.
 
Ken Catanella is not a fool. ---> http://www.sloansportsconference.com/people/ken-catanella/
Ken Catanella was in Detroit. ---> http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ed-sacramento-kings-assistant-general-manager
Ken Catanella must know Anthony Tolliver better than us Fans:)
When I look at Tolliver I see a Journeyman bench player who has turned himself into a Player. A glue guy you have in the rotation coming off the bench, defends his position, shoots the three at 36%. With Boogie or Koufos in the paint AT will stand on the perimeter inviting teams to pack the paint:)

Now how about Garrett Temple? Or Skal, Malachi or Papa:)?
 
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