Carmichael Dave addresses the Yahoo kerfuffle

206Fan said:
Sam Amick confirmed that it is Brandon Williams. He has been trying to get Joerger replaced since last year.
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TaxMan, the 6 am version of DC's show pretty much lead directly to Brandon Williams. Did you listen to it or watch it (if it's up)?

As for Amick confirming it now, yea, that's what you would call the (Kings) first steps in an eventual dismissal. The implication is that the Kings are allowing Williams to be hung out to dry. Whether he was right or wrong, what he did was inexcusable. Dude has to go.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, it seems pretty obvious that:

1. Williams was hoping the Kings would implode.
2. The Kings fast start and the gigantic improvement from the kids, destroyed his position within the organization.
3. The first headwinds for Bjelly and the Kings and we see the Haynes article hit.

Dude over played his hand. It's like he's sitting with pocket Aces and tried to slow play the hand. The flop came, he waited, then the turn came. He jumped on the turn and got his ass handed to him, because Joeger already had a made hand on the flop.
 
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Pete Youngman probably needed to go. You get a little cushy in your position after 25 years. You become an old dog with no new tricks. You could say "well this guy is so full of wisdom after so many years...". That's one way to look at it. The other way is training methodology has changed dramatically over the last decade and years and new blood was needed to usher in those strategies. My experience is that tenured employees are more inclined to get lazy than inventive and cutting edge.

Now onto the central issue. There is a seeming consensus that if these reports are true, Williams needs to be dismissed. Need I remind Kings fans with short memory Vlade was clearly in over his head going back to the Boogie deal. He absolutely botched the negotiations and public relations. He conducted himself like an amateur. It was either fire him and introduce more chaos and turnover or give him help. Brandon Williams was that help. I contend they currently they serve as co-GMs. Williams has brought stability and structure and improved communication throughout the league. We are going to throw that away now? Then trades happen only is if Vlade happens to run into a counterpart at all-star break or scouting event? No! We need Williams to facilitate and negotiate with clearly defined strategic objectives. Vlade is not capable of this to nuance needed.

I also contend that Williams was prudent to keep the eye out for alternate coaching candidates last year when there was indication Joerger was going to give Z-Bo role with this team this season. The team performance last year was so pathetic and many coaches have been fired for less. Joerger was fighting for self-preservation related to his ability and willingness to adapt and implement a system complementary to his talent. He has done a very good and noble job as reflected by any statistical account. Williams is not so stupid to ignore these facts, reason and evidence. If Williams is insistent that the coach needs to be replaced in the context of our 8-8 start, and improved point differential, he needs to go. If he has genuine reservations about long term viability of the coach, but grants the commendable job from a year ago, I get it. A healthy skepticism in this context is justified.

If Joerger is going to be fired, should the season unravel, which I don't think it will, it should not be until after this season anyway. If the parties cannot at least agree on this much, Williams is gone. I take exception to the perspective this should be a "developmental year". Um, we don't have our pick and we are trying to reverse a decade plus of losing. The objective should be win, win, win while developing young talent through playing time earned in practice and opponents. This is what Joerger is doing. All in all this is more worthy of an extension than pink slip if our season continues on the current trajectory.
 
To be more exact after listening to the 12:00 show....Amick said he saw Brandon Williams sitting with Chris Haynes near or in the front row at the Lakers game which was not long ago. Out in the open.....and then this report comes out......put 1 and 1 together.

Please dump this guy now. No different than Pete D’Allesandro and Chris Mullin but at this point, Vivek is more experienced and he is getting the product he wants on the floor....an uptempo exciting team.

Oh and by the way, Joerger and his staff has been coaching their asses off and developing players and now possibly ahead of the timeline. It would be sweet to fire this guy rather quickly.
 
It feels like we did the right thing with "culture" focus last year and this year of course you double down on that. Even if you take Williams as the driving factor behind Bagley and that Vlade would have gone with Doncic and now he is feeling some pressure on that, why couldn't you use the success of Fox in year 2 and everything else as a reason to just trust the process Joerger is using here to develop the young guys? It seems to be working.
 
What Williams did is honestly a ***** move. This is assuming it was him which between the wanting Joerger fired last season and hyping Bagley makes complete sense. The fact that we're actually winning, that Joerger has been coaching to the teams strengths, that everything regarding the kings has seemingly been positive for once, and for personal interests, to leak this to a reporter is extremely unprofessional.

There is no mistake is my mind that this was specifically timed before the Kings upcoming rough schedule. Probably knew we were going to lose, so wanted to stir the pot and create turmoil to get what he wanted.

And you know what, thats fine. You dont like Joerger and you want Bagley to play more? Thats fine, but keep that in house.

He really thought it would be ok to do this? He really didn't understand the impact that doing something like this would have to the franchise. Pulling crap like this matters, it darkens the image of the organization and can easily cancel out any good he thinks would have come out of firing Joerger.

Just so so stupid.
 
kb02 said:
TaxMan, the 6 am version of DC's show pretty much lead directly to Brandon Williams. Did you listen to it or watch it (if it's up)?

As for Amick confirming it now, yea, that's what you would call the (Kings) first steps in an eventual dismissal. The implication is that the Kings are allowing Williams to be hung out to dry. Whether he was right or wrong, what he did was inexcusable. Dude has to go.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, it seems pretty obvious that:

1. Williams was hoping the Kings would implode.
2. The Kings fast start and the gigantic improvement from the kids, destroyed his position within the organization.
3. The first headwinds for Bjelly and the Kings and we see the Haynes article hit.

Dude over played his hand. It's like he's sitting with pocket Aces and tried to slow play the hand. The flop came, he waited, then the turn came. He jumped on the turn and got his ass handed to him, because Joeger already had a made hand on the flop.
Click to expand...

I thought it was him, though not because of Joerger at all, but to get the GM position. If a couple of Vlade’s moves didn’t work out, like Doncic/Bagley, I thought he may have been in position had he done nothing.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I thought it was him for the exact reason. Foolish, because IMO is Doncic/Bagley etc continue down their current paths..
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Foolish? Indeed.

For me, the most damning part is a member of the leadership group actively hoping the team would implode. That is inexcusable.

There's an accepted business tactic that new CEOs would frequently apply. It's called "taking a big bath". That is, they make things look as bad as possible--accelerating losses, taking charges, etc. Because the lower the entry point, the better he or she will look going forward.

Williams just tried to do this--way before he had the reigns. Foolish? Indeed.
 
Blob said:
Pete Youngman probably needed to go. You get a little cushy in your position after 25 years. You become an old dog with no new tricks. You could say "well this guy is so full of wisdom after so many years...". That's one way to look at it. The other way is training methodology has changed dramatically over the last decade and years and new blood was needed to usher in those strategies. My experience is that tenured employees are more inclined to get lazy than inventive and cutting edge.
.
Click to expand...

What in the what are you talking about? Are you aware of the Kings success in avoiding major injuries over the last decade? Did you know Pete was and IS on the cutting edge of training techniques? This was a bullcrap power move and $$$ savings move from MK and Williams.
 
kb02 said:
TaxMan, the 6 am version of DC's show pretty much lead directly to Brandon Williams. Did you listen to it or watch it (if it's up)?

As for Amick confirming it now, yea, that's what you would call the (Kings) first steps in an eventual dismissal. The implication is that the Kings are allowing Williams to be hung out to dry. Whether he was right or wrong, what he did was inexcusable. Dude has to go.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, it seems pretty obvious that:

1. Williams was hoping the Kings would implode.
2. The Kings fast start and the gigantic improvement from the kids, destroyed his position within the organization.
3. The first headwinds for Bjelly and the Kings and we see the Haynes article hit.

Dude over played his hand. It's like he's sitting with pocket Aces and tried to slow play the hand. The flop came, he waited, then the turn came. He jumped on the turn and got his ass handed to him, because Joeger already had a made hand on the flop.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected. I assumed he was just rehashing the content of his article. If this originated with Williams it is inexcusable and he needs to go. Unbelievable.
 
206Fan said:
Sam Amick confirmed that it is Brandon Williams. He has been trying to get Joerger replaced since last year.
Click to expand...


Honestly, last year was starting to look like it was inevitable and necessary. This year has been different because Joerger did finally start using the players in a way that was complimentary to their skills instead of hand feeding them a system in which they weren't finding any success. His handling of the players directly led to the lack of any positive output from the youth of this team. It was handled horribly. Now it's a different story. He did bite that bullet and go with the flow and it's worked well so far. My concern is that the last two games we've seen some regression in both lineup management and play style. Time will tell how it works from here.
 
TaxMan said:
I stand corrected. I assumed he was just rehashing the content of his article. If this originated with Williams it is inexcusable and he needs to go. Unbelievable.
Click to expand...


Again, was that last year though? Because every metric dictated it was probably the right move then. It could be another PDA/Malone situation or it could be old news getting out.
 
Kings deny report that coach Dave Joerger, front office have disconnect originally appeared on nbcsportsbayarea.comRebuilding a culture while winning isn't enough?A report from Yahoo! Sports' Chris Haynes says it might not be for Sacramento Kings coach

Continue reading...
 
dude12 said:
I think his article is in the athletic which is a paid site.......but if not the athletic it should be on USA Today. I heard the afternoon 1140 radio show talking about it
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Sam Amick no longer works for USA Today - all his material is for the Athletic now. It's a paid site, but I highly recommend it, and they almost always have a discount to sign up so I think i'm paying something like $3/mo

Here's the article if you wanted it: https://theathletic.com/662849/2018...y-take-their-fans-frustration-more-seriously/
 
So according to Amick, Brandon Williams was behind the move to dump Pete Youngman and staff and replace them. He works closely with Matina...I believe that’s her name..... and has been given a good amount of leeway in making moves to improve the franchise although Vlade has final say on player personnel moves. Williams is clearly a big supporter of Bagley.

I think when a GM or assistant GM starts trying to influence who plays, as in telling the coach what to do or how to do his job, I think it’s time to dump said assistant GM or GM. Joerger and staff have done a tremendous job with Fox, Mason, Hield, WCS and if given the opportunity will do a great job with Bagley and Giles.

At what point does Vivek settle things down by letting Williams go and for the life of me, how does the lady who has been here 22 years as a common denominator still have a job.
 
If you're looking to read tea leaves, here are the leaves:

-Napear apparently ripped Williams on the show. He doesn't do anything like that without Kings approval.

-Bee beat writer for the Kings reveals that Williams was seen speaking at length with Chris Hayes at the recent Lakers game. That sort of detail is put in to for the ire of the fans.


So I think Brandon is getting fired.
 
dude12 said:
I think his article is in the athletic which is a paid site.......but if not the athletic it should be on USA Today. I heard the afternoon 1140 radio show talking about it
Click to expand...

Thanks. Could only get through the 1st quarter of the article before they made me pay lol. Oh well I’ve been meaning to get a subscription since they started poaching my favorite writers
 
Cleveland Browns did the right thing when their coaches were in a power struggle. They fired the head coach, who couldn't keep his staff under control. Fired the assistant coach, who's power play was just as big a part of the disruption. Neither was rewarded for their behavior.

Taking emotion out of it, as the owner of the team, it makes sense to start from scratch. I'm not calling for anyone's head, because i'd prefer everyone to stay and work it out for sake of stability. Just saying objectively, the breakdown in the FO can't be solely pinned on the underling (Williams). All indications are that the battle inside the FO didn't just start this week. Why wasn't this squashed a long time ago? There were even rumblings in the media about it in the past as battle lines were being drawn. Sides were being taken. Have to get out in front of that. There is still a serious management problem.
 
Livinthedream said:
Cleveland Browns did the right thing when their coaches were in a power struggle. They fired the head coach, who couldn't keep his staff under control. Fired the assistant coach, who's power play was just as big a part of the disruption. Neither was rewarded for their behavior.

Taking emotion out of it, as the owner of the team, it makes sense to start from scratch. I'm not calling for anyone's head, because i'd prefer everyone to stay and work it out for sake of stability. Just saying objectively, the breakdown in the FO can't be solely pinned on the underling (Williams). All indications are that the battle inside the FO didn't just start this week. Why wasn't this squashed a long time ago? There were even rumblings in the media about it in the past as battle lines were being drawn. Sides were being taken. Have to get out in front of that. There is still a serious management problem.
Click to expand...
You fire Brandon Williams because he went and shared with a writer who brought it out in the open. This organization has worked hard to show some stability....this guy just pissed on that. I believe his ego has gotten the best of him and he would rather get his way than support Joerger who has the team going in the right direction. We have seen this before. Williams needs to get out.
 


Sacramento Kings general manager Vlade Divac insisted Dave Joerger had the team's "full support" amid reports the coach could be on his way out. According to a Yahoo Sports report, Sacramento's front office is not happy with how Joerger is distributing minutes this season, especially when it comes to the team's young players. The Kings are off to a surprising start this season as they are 8-8 and much of that has been down to Joerger's insistence on playing Buddy Hield, Willie Cauley-Stein and Nemanja Bjelica.

Continue reading...
 
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