Carmichael Dave addresses the Yahoo kerfuffle

#64
Now that his name has been exposed, Brandon Williams needs to address the media on this. He either needs to refute or clarify what is being said, or take ownership. If he does nothing he is either asking or wanting to be fired.
 
#65
You fire Brandon Williams because he went and shared with a writer who brought it out in the open. This organization has worked hard to show some stability....this guy just pissed on that. I believe his ego has gotten the best of him and he would rather get his way than support Joerger who has the team going in the right direction. We have seen this before. Williams needs to get out.
It's not this simple. Was the conversation on or off the record? Did Haynes misinterpret or misconstrue, willfully or mistakenly? Before Williams gets canned he deserves the right to explain himself to Vlade and the fanbase. Williams is a smart dude. Do you think he wants to completely disregard the strides we have taken this year relative to last year and the role the coach has played in that? Williams deserves the opportunity to defend himself. On the other hand, and I am sort of spitballing, it could be Williams took the job with the idea he would be replacing Vlade given his tenuous track record when he was brought on board. Now that Vlades position seemed relatively secure, and certainly more secure than ever, Williams may be implementing his exit strategy. My understanding is that when you resign your position, you no longer get paid. When you get fired, you get to collect your paycheck for the term of the contract.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#67
Just so you know, I had sources inside the Kings organization for a period of time. That was when Petrie was the GM. I no longer have those sources. But if you think I would tell you who, or even give a vague job description of my sources, your out of your freaking mind. Do that, and you no longer have any sources.

By the way, if anyone remembers, none of this ever happened when Petrie was the GM. That's because he ruled the front office with an iron hand. If you leaked anything, you were gone. It went so far as to when he was discussing a trade with another team, the discussion would end if the other team leaked anything about the trade before it was officially agreed upon. As an ex-player, Petrie never wanted a players name floating around in the news before that player was notified by the organization. If the other team leaked, they went on his black list.
If a front office is giving out sources to random people with no ties to the front office, then I question the stability, trust and cohesion in that organization. Under no circumstances should there be any type of people who are available for leaking possible information whether that may be positive or negative. What comes out to the public should be by the people making the big decisions.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#70
If a front office is giving out sources to random people with no ties to the front office, then I question the stability, trust and cohesion in that organization. Under no circumstances should there be any type of people who are available for leaking possible information whether that may be positive or negative. What comes out to the public should be by the people making the big decisions.
What in the blue blazes are you talking about? A front office doesn't "give out sources". Sources aren't tangible things like key chains. You honestly have no idea how this works, do you?

 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#71
What in the blue blazes are you talking about? A front office doesn't "give out sources". Sources aren't tangible things like key chains. You honestly have no idea how this works, do you?

I know how this works plenty. No need to attack me on this because I'm attacking your friend Dave and his "inside" sources.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#72
I know how this works plenty. No need to attack me on this because I'm attacking your friend Dave and his "inside" sources.
I'm not attacking you. I am, however, strongly questioning your knowledge of this stuff. Play the victim card if you like but it's pretty clear you just don't get it. But whatever... At this point, trying to give you correct information is an exercise in futility. You don't think Dave has sources? Cool. Wonderful. Marvelous. Go with that. Have a nice night.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#73
Sam Amick no longer works for USA Today - all his material is for the Athletic now. It's a paid site, but I highly recommend it, and they almost always have a discount to sign up so I think i'm paying something like $3/mo

Here's the article if you wanted it: https://theathletic.com/662849/2018...y-take-their-fans-frustration-more-seriously/
Sam hits the nail on the head multiple times in that article. If you're new to The Athletic, you can get a 7-day free trial. DO IT and read the article. I'm really impressed with what The Athletic is putting together.
 
#74
My understanding is that when you resign your position, you no longer get paid. When you get fired, you get to collect your paycheck for the term of the contract.
Except when you get fired for cause. Usually smart organizations include language in the contracts for remedies when their employees undermine the business or their superiors, go public with inside information, etc. If he's the leak here he probably violated his contract in multiple areas. If there is any major second guessing of the pick going on right now Williams will be the fall guy as well (too early imho but who knows).
 
#80
IMO, this is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. The more people involved in FO dealings, the more likely this kind of thing can happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Geoff Petrie having an 'assistant GM'. Vlade needs to rein things in by simplifying. There's no need for so many cooks. Either Vlade can do the GM job or he can't.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#81
IMO, this is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. The more people involved in FO dealings, the more likely this kind of thing can happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Geoff Petrie having an 'assistant GM'. Vlade needs to rein things in by simplifying. There's no need for so many cooks. Either Vlade can do the GM job or he can't.
Reef or Mike Petrie ring any bells? Not to mention front offices have grown exponentially more complicated in the past twenty or so years.
 
#82
I think his article is in the athletic which is a paid site.......but if not the athletic it should be on USA Today. I heard the afternoon 1140 radio show talking about it
Someone already linked it above, but Amick also said something along the lines of sources say: Joerger believes Brandon Williams has been trying to fire him since last season.

I put up the thread with quotes, but I posted it to the wrong place lol
 
#83
IMO, this is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. The more people involved in FO dealings, the more likely this kind of thing can happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Geoff Petrie having an 'assistant GM'. Vlade needs to rein things in by simplifying. There's no need for so many cooks. Either Vlade can do the GM job or he can't.
Wayne Cooper was Petrie's assistsnt gm.
 
#84
I appreciate CD getting right to the point in all of his tweets today. Someone had to just say all of that.
I also love this point from @carmichaeldave , which articulates exactly what I"ve been thinking: "The fans deserve better than to have some knee-jerk fan PTSD pop up when they least expect it." Given the amount of suffering Kings Fans have endured, this type of action is inexcusably disrespectful.
 
#85
https://theathletic.com/662849/

Williams, who was hired in July 2017 after spending the previous four years with the Philadelphia 76ers as a vice president of basketball administration and general manager of the NBA G-League’s Delaware 87ers, handles most of the day-to-day operations and has seen his power increase over the course of his stay. Divac has final say on player personnel matters, in other words, but Williams has been given all sorts of leeway to make his mark.

He was the driving force behind the training staff overhaul that pushed out longtime trainer Pete Youngman after 25 years in late August (the moves were chronicled in an 1,808-word press release). Williams was and remains a major backer of Bagley, who was taken second overall out of Duke and is off to a strong start (11.9 points, 5.7 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 22.6 minutes per game) while playing in the reserve role that is now being called into question. And how’s this for tricky office politics that should have been handled internally?

By all accounts, Kolokotronis’ level of influence on both the business and basketball sides is at an all-time high. The same can’t be said for internal morale.
Okay, so we have a very integral piece of the operation who is becoming sure enough of his own importance that he feels safe rattling cages in pursuit of his own agendas. "Immediate termination" feels so satisfying, but it could come at great cost to our success...and Williams knows this. Real leadership is often complicated. As a leader, Vlade's job is to bring Williams into line to keep day-to-day operations flowing, convince Coach that he has his back, and ensure that any barriers to fan excitement are minimized. The only real variable here is whether Williams can get back in line and do his job, or whether he will be a malcontent and cause problems. If he is willing to fly in formation, everybody wins. If he is going to be a cancer, than Vlade must determine if keeping him in place through the season will cause greater harm then ripping him out of the system immediately. Neither of those are good options.
 
#86
Okay, so we have a very integral piece of the operation who is becoming sure enough of his own importance that he feels safe rattling cages in pursuit of his own agendas. "Immediate termination" feels so satisfying, but it could come at great cost to our success...and Williams knows this. Real leadership is often complicated. As a leader, Vlade's job is to bring Williams into line to keep day-to-day operations flowing, convince Coach that he has his back, and ensure that any barriers to fan excitement are minimized. The only real variable here is whether Williams can get back in line and do his job, or whether he will be a malcontent and cause problems. If he is willing to fly in formation, everybody wins. If he is going to be a cancer, than Vlade must determine if keeping him in place through the season will cause greater harm then ripping him out of the system immediately. Neither of those are good options.
Why would somebody believe he will stop being a cancer, if given a good enough "talking to". that's naive. he's got to go.
 
#87
There's nothing satisfying about "immediate termination" here. Those who were aware that he was a person who existed in the organization generally thought highly of him. It must be especially conflicting for all those on the fire idiot Vlade train, especially since most of those are still Luka hold outs, and especially since it was apparently Williams who made the loudest noise in the draft room.

This is an absolute nightmare.

This is a grade a offense that is not just fireable it's blacklistable. It's arguably worse than what Colangelo did in Philly, especially if it's been going on behind the scenes for longer than anyone knew. Have to assume he leaked the pick among other things.
 
#88
Okay, so we have a very integral piece of the operation who is becoming sure enough of his own importance that he feels safe rattling cages in pursuit of his own agendas. "Immediate termination" feels so satisfying, but it could come at great cost to our success...and Williams knows this. Real leadership is often complicated. As a leader, Vlade's job is to bring Williams into line to keep day-to-day operations flowing, convince Coach that he has his back, and ensure that any barriers to fan excitement are minimized. The only real variable here is whether Williams can get back in line and do his job, or whether he will be a malcontent and cause problems. If he is willing to fly in formation, everybody wins. If he is going to be a cancer, than Vlade must determine if keeping him in place through the season will cause greater harm then ripping him out of the system immediately. Neither of those are good options.
I'm inline with this thinking. Williams is important to this team. There may be some PTSD from what's happened in the past with Mike Malone, but not sure this is the same situation. This could very well be someone taking a misstep as opposed to someone being a cancer. We don't know. But like I've said, William's strong influence in the FO isn't new. If it wasn't acceptable, why let it go on this long. Plenty of blame to share.

Will be interesting to see how Vlade manages the situation now that the laundry is out in the open. I don't see Vlade as someone who likes to fire people if it can be avoided.
 
#89
I'm inline with this thinking. Williams is important to this team. There may be some PTSD from what's happened in the past with Mike Malone, but not sure this is the same situation. This could very well be someone taking a misstep as opposed to someone being a cancer. We don't know. But like I've said, William's strong influence in the FO isn't new. If it wasn't acceptable, why let it go on this long. Plenty of blame to share.

Will be interesting to see how Vlade manages the situation now that the laundry is out in the open. I don't see Vlade as someone who likes to fire people if it can be avoided.
Reading tea leaves from the Amick article and his recent convo this morning on the Drive:

1. There's basically three competing camps. Vivek. Vlade and crew. Matina and Williams.
2. Folks are roping Matina into the convo, because they believe Williams is effectively working on her behalf.

3. Vivek's not going to fire Matina. And he shouldn't, the transformation in the DOCO is amazing.
4. Vlade, Joeger, and crew have performance and player development on their side.
5. Vivek is the owner. He's not going anywhere unless he sells, which ain't happening.

My bet, Williams gets sacrificed by Matina and is gone by year end.
 
#90
Reading tea leaves from the Amick article and his recent convo this morning on the Drive:

1. There's basically three competing camps. Vivek. Vlade and crew. Matina and Williams.
2. Folks are roping Matina into the convo, because they believe Williams is effectively working on her behalf.

3. Vivek's not going to fire Matina. And he shouldn't, the transformation in the DOCO is amazing.
4. Vlade, Joeger, and crew have performance and player development on their side.
5. Vivek is the owner. He's not going anywhere unless he sells, which ain't happening.

My bet, Williams gets sacrificed by Matina and is gone by year end.
I haven't read the article. Thanks for the breakdown. What a mess.