King Baller
All-Star
I just saw where Coach Karl commented he has had 20 straight winning season. So can the Kings play + .500 ball next season?
Can the Kings have a winning season next season?
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
Who the hell knows? That's an unanswerable question in March; we don't know how many - or if - any of these players will still be here in October.
Can they? Of course. Anything is possible. WILL THEY? That's the question we have no way to answer right now. You're at least 6-7 months too early.
gunks
Hall of Famer
This. I also think missing DC has been hurting us a lot. We have a shaky kid and an old man running the point.
We get DC back, a decent vet SG in FA (I'll take a solid 10-12ppg guy that can hit a 3 at this point), cross our fingers for Ben, Ray and Nik's development, and we are set with the guard rotation.
I hate myself for saying this, but a stretch 4 would be nice too. We'd get some spacing for Cuz and guard penetration, and also be able to move JT to backup big (well, I guess he's doing that now).
Maybe another SF. I like Casspi but Williams doesnt do it for me. He dunks, sometimes he hits a 3, but every game you KNOW he is going to get lit up by whoever he is "guarding".
If we keep our pick, we should be able to get a good prospect. Just keep Vivek out of the war room.
Somehow getting a defensive big in FA or the draft would be good. Moreland getting healthy and being able to contribute would be gravy.
Am I missing anything?
So uh....Yeah, we need a lot to go right. But yes, theoretically, we CAN have a winning season next year.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Talking the rot Karl is talking? Maybe not.
There has come a point in every decrepit coach's career when he loses it, gets inflexible, lazy, happened to Lenny Wilkens. Happened to Nellie. Happened to Rick. We saw it happen to Motta right before our eyes. The more Karl talks, the more he sounds liek he may be no brighter than PDA anymore. be a sad end, for everyone.
That said, on talent? Yes. I am in the middle of posting a long series of threads about great center led teams of the past, who's roster structure COULD be reached by these Kings. Its there, its doable. We've got core pieces. But not likely with this entirely extrenal and unnecessary basketball philosophy being forced over everything for no good reason. The disaster that may have befallen us isn't the players, its that our owner's ignorant and he's allowed, or abetted a ruinous front office culture to take root. If that's true, we're screwed no matter how possible it would be to make this work for competent personnel. If your decisionmakers don't work then you don't work, and I'm off I guess to become a Wizards fan or Heat fan or wherever The Franchise ends up as a result.
There has come a point in every decrepit coach's career when he loses it, gets inflexible, lazy, happened to Lenny Wilkens. Happened to Nellie. Happened to Rick. We saw it happen to Motta right before our eyes. The more Karl talks, the more he sounds liek he may be no brighter than PDA anymore. be a sad end, for everyone.
That said, on talent? Yes. I am in the middle of posting a long series of threads about great center led teams of the past, who's roster structure COULD be reached by these Kings. Its there, its doable. We've got core pieces. But not likely with this entirely extrenal and unnecessary basketball philosophy being forced over everything for no good reason. The disaster that may have befallen us isn't the players, its that our owner's ignorant and he's allowed, or abetted a ruinous front office culture to take root. If that's true, we're screwed no matter how possible it would be to make this work for competent personnel. If your decisionmakers don't work then you don't work, and I'm off I guess to become a Wizards fan or Heat fan or wherever The Franchise ends up as a result.
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PoundForPound
Guest
if the team stays healthy, as currently constructed, no. I know they showed promise early in the year but this roster doesn't have enough talent to make the playoffs. There's no way this team wins 48-50 games.
I do expect this roster to look very different going into next season, however.
I do expect this roster to look very different going into next season, however.
SacKings384
Starter
Can we? Sure of course. I think what Karl is going to have to do is work on motivation and buying in. It's hard to do so with this trash of a season, but under Malone you could see the guys really bought in. Players like Rudy, B-Mac, Collison, etc. were all playing SIGNIFICANTLY harder than they are now. Rudy and B-Mac look especially disinterested in playing a lick of defense. My worry is that Karl is preaching a "push push push don't worry about defense" style of play, which imo won't work. Because it's about getting the players to play with EFFORT, and you can't do that when you're telling them to use less effort for 50% of the game.
I think earlier in the season the Kings were really digging the hard, gritty style of play they had. Now this team reminds me more of how the Phoenix Suns had been for the last couple of years. Yeah sure they might win a few games but nobody is going to take them seriously.
I'm certainly not giving up on Karl and am damn happy he's here. Just hoping for some better effort next season.
I think earlier in the season the Kings were really digging the hard, gritty style of play they had. Now this team reminds me more of how the Phoenix Suns had been for the last couple of years. Yeah sure they might win a few games but nobody is going to take them seriously.
I'm certainly not giving up on Karl and am damn happy he's here. Just hoping for some better effort next season.
9x1x6
Bench
Get another SG...and cross our fingers that Ben and Nik develop....yeah k.
Ray Mac needs to go, we need an elite/great starting PG if we want to ever get anywhere, or someone better then Darren, cause he's here to be back up.
Williams, Caspi, Landry and JT are all parts of the problem to, they can all go as well.
lawlman91
Starter
I'd go with Memphis or any other team that does smash-mouth. I'm curious to see its viability in the NBA, and also because I think it looks good.
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PoundForPound
Guest
Ray McCallum needs to go.
Players like Omri Casspi, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, guys that would barely crack the rotation on good teams, need to GO.
We've got to change the mindset around here we have too many players that accept losing.
Players like Omri Casspi, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, guys that would barely crack the rotation on good teams, need to GO.
We've got to change the mindset around here we have too many players that accept losing.
Larry David
Starter
In 2 years, the GM just turned over 95% of the roster to get rid of the players that had accepted losing. We are now back in the same boat. The GM and the owner want to run, but other than Ben most of this roster isn't geared to play that way. Many are slow, Rudy just doesn't play hard enough, our best point guard right now is 200 years old.
We have limited assets. We have so-so cap space in a league where better destinations have a ton. And we can't trade a first round pick.
With those restrictions, the GM needs to turn over another big chunk of the roster to improve the talent, bring in guys that know how to win, and are suited for the up tempo system the owner and GM want. That's a tall order.
We tried to do this last year. We moved in early with a mid-level offer for Livingston, who decided he would rather be a backup in Golden State than start for the Kings. So we end up with Sessions, who was a horrible fit for this team in many respects.
I think they will be better next year. But, the notion that we'll get more than two impact pieces (our pick / the bad trade we make for our pick and one decent vet signing) and suddenly take off seems like a pipe dream. Karl and much of the current roster will get a little help, and most will be back. Then, they will have to decide if they can learn to play winning basketball and start to do it. So far, no signs that's coming around the corner.
Training camp is good for working on concepts and drilling on schemes. It doesn't make you magically give a crap. Many Kings players are resigned to losing. We remain dysfunctional from almost top to bottom.
We have limited assets. We have so-so cap space in a league where better destinations have a ton. And we can't trade a first round pick.
With those restrictions, the GM needs to turn over another big chunk of the roster to improve the talent, bring in guys that know how to win, and are suited for the up tempo system the owner and GM want. That's a tall order.
We tried to do this last year. We moved in early with a mid-level offer for Livingston, who decided he would rather be a backup in Golden State than start for the Kings. So we end up with Sessions, who was a horrible fit for this team in many respects.
I think they will be better next year. But, the notion that we'll get more than two impact pieces (our pick / the bad trade we make for our pick and one decent vet signing) and suddenly take off seems like a pipe dream. Karl and much of the current roster will get a little help, and most will be back. Then, they will have to decide if they can learn to play winning basketball and start to do it. So far, no signs that's coming around the corner.
Training camp is good for working on concepts and drilling on schemes. It doesn't make you magically give a crap. Many Kings players are resigned to losing. We remain dysfunctional from almost top to bottom.
You may have an overinflated opinion of how good the average backup center is.
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PoundForPound
Guest
Jason Thompson is a viable option for a backup center, but up until recently he's been STARTING for this team for years. You won't win with JT as your starting C. No way jose.
So does Jason Thompson need to GO, or do we need a better starting PF so we can move JT to the bench where he would be a quality backup big man?
Do D-Will and Omri have to GO, or do we need Rudy to be healthy and not check out on the defensive side of the ball so that they can play backup minutes?
Does Ray McCallum need to GO, or do we need Collison healthy so that Ray can be a backup?
Frankly, you're taking four players that constitute the vast majority of the talent we have on our bench, three of whom will either be cheap (Ray) or likely cheap (Omri, DWill) next year and saying we need to dump them. We don't have a ton of room under the salary cap. How are we going to replace that production? What better players can we get?
c-webb1s#1
Starter
All i want from my starting PF is this:
Able to make the mid range J
Rebound
defend
if JT could hit that mid range shot he would be perfect! However it seems like he is getting worse at that.
In light of this post, I shall revise my previous comment: you may have an overly narrow opinion of what a 'rotation player' is.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Unfortunately, I don't think so any more.
Get better? Sure.
Compete and battle? Sure
Go 42-40 or more nope, just don't see it without a miracle.
Get better? Sure.
Compete and battle? Sure
Go 42-40 or more nope, just don't see it without a miracle.
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PoundForPound
Guest
No, we need to get rid of these players. In other words, if this team wants to win, get rid of all the garbage. Don't shuffle things around and bring in more garbage, just get rid of them. Open up your wallet and do what it takes to bring better players, simple as that.
You do understand how the salary cap and contracts work?
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PoundForPound
Guest
That's why we have management. People get paid top dollar for these decisions. When you're a small market team it's inevitable you're going to have to over spend. San Antonio is a freak of nature and please don't compare us to them. Bottom line is simple, we need better players, more talent, and we need to somehow turn the garbage that we have into viable assets to bring in help or acquire via free agency
Possible? Yes. Likely? Not in my opinion. While talent is nice winning is more then just throwing money at the floor. Our losing is not mostly on the players on the floor it is the guys on the sidelines and the guys in the front office. Has been since long in the last regime. You don't fix that by getting that next lucky lottery ticket or swapping around mid level contracts(or DMC would have fixed it right?). You fix it by stepping back looking at what is working and what isn't and making the changes needed.
Design your game-plan around your talent, don't have some idea of how many times they need to run up and down and hold the coach too it or firing. Everyone on this level can be good. But they are all good at different things a great coach should take all those diverse talents and abilities and tie them into a cohesive team. And that's what it comes down to playing as a team for the team from ownership to the ball-boy.
Design your game-plan around your talent, don't have some idea of how many times they need to run up and down and hold the coach too it or firing. Everyone on this level can be good. But they are all good at different things a great coach should take all those diverse talents and abilities and tie them into a cohesive team. And that's what it comes down to playing as a team for the team from ownership to the ball-boy.
"Somehow" is the operative word here. I asked you how. I don't see an easy solution to the "somehow" you propose, but if you do, please offer it up.
As a parable, once upon a time I had an opportunity to upgrade my kitchen table. I did so, and in consequence I sold off my previous table and the chairs that matched it since i had no space to store them and they went as a set. However, the upgraded table I got didn't come with chairs. That's OK, I figured, because somehow I'll get replacements for them. It turned out to be not quite so easy or quick as I thought - I even ended up serving a Thanksgiving dinner on my nice new table with the guests sitting on folding chairs from a card table set. And I wasn't operating under restrictions of a salary cap, either. The point is that if you get rid of your stuff that's actually decent and works before you've identified a way to get a suitable improvement, you're likely to be downgrading. If we just flatly dump JT without already having his replacement lined up, we're going to end up knocking on Jason Collins' and Hilton Armstrong's doors before too long.
So what's the "somehow"?
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PoundForPound
Guest
Well, you certainly didn't hesitate to make the decision to get rid of that list of players on behalf of our management.
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