I know that most fans are intoxicated with the idea of stars on their team. But after watching the world championships, and watching the Greek team out play a group of NBA stars, that decided to pass once and settle for a three, it became apparent to me that you don't need stars to win. You need players that put the team first. Players that trust one another out on the floor. Don't get me wrong, if you can get a group of supremely talented players to play as a team then you have the best of both worlds. If the Kings can play as a team, how far can they go?
Can Musselman develop a team?
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
This is a strange thread to say the least.
a) NT summer ball is not applicable to the NBA
b) we have no idea about the answer to your initial question, nor does anybody. Muss didn't first time round, now have to see if he learned from his mistakes.
c) The history of the NBA blatantly defies your hypothesis
In any case, the Greek system works in Greece, for one set of players, playing NT ball under an alternate ruleset, and it works to the tune of allowing them to finish 2nd. Meanwhile Muss is here in the U.S. in a league that has always been dominated by dominant players, has only 2 years of coaching experience, and got canned after he lost his former team's respect. Take all of that and this topic is unknowable at best.
a) NT summer ball is not applicable to the NBA
b) we have no idea about the answer to your initial question, nor does anybody. Muss didn't first time round, now have to see if he learned from his mistakes.
c) The history of the NBA blatantly defies your hypothesis
In any case, the Greek system works in Greece, for one set of players, playing NT ball under an alternate ruleset, and it works to the tune of allowing them to finish 2nd. Meanwhile Muss is here in the U.S. in a league that has always been dominated by dominant players, has only 2 years of coaching experience, and got canned after he lost his former team's respect. Take all of that and this topic is unknowable at best.
U may not need stars to win in the international game, but you do in the NBA game. Sure having good role players like the Pistons did in 04 and won it all is great and people say they won as a "team" they did but they did have stars in Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups on that team. Now they may not have been as big of stars as Shaq and Wade, but they were stars. I think in the NBA you need at least two "stars" and a bunch of good role players who know there role on the team to win. The Kings IMO have one star in Ron Artest and not enough good role players to win it all. Get to say the second round yes, but to win it all not quite yet IMO.
The preference given to stars by the refs in the NBA puts teams that lack them at a real disadvantage. Unfortunately for us our star, Artest, doesn't get the relaxed rules that other elite players get either.
The question is how do you keep those elite players from getting hacked up with cheap fouls by thugs and scrubs without wrecking the flow of the game with loads of foul calls?
The question is how do you keep those elite players from getting hacked up with cheap fouls by thugs and scrubs without wrecking the flow of the game with loads of foul calls?
The Pistons won and I do not want to take that away from them. But it was against that lakers (whoops almost capitalized it) team that had switched coaches and lost Malone. Most teams that were in the race that year were still finding their place. Hence their third round drop last year. I doubt that any team without at least one superstar or two stars plus great role players will ever take the title.
Except us, KINGS IN '07
Except us, KINGS IN '07
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I consider Billup's a superstar. maybe the Pistons didn't have a true "Franchise" player but they had plenty of stars and Rip and Ben was one of them.
as far as Eric developing a team... it's hard to answer that because i think Eric is not really a teacher he's a coach who hopes his team is ready but considering he knows this team is young he might pepare himself in a different social coaching.
as far as Eric developing a team... it's hard to answer that because i think Eric is not really a teacher he's a coach who hopes his team is ready but considering he knows this team is young he might pepare himself in a different social coaching.
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Yes you did. I was about to post the same as SDking until I saw he already did. The Pistons "team" is in the history of the NBA. You said "To say you don't need a superstar is simply ignoring the entire history of the NBA". It doesn't make much sense
You can't just say 'other than...'. If that was the case I could say " Other than all the teams that have won the NBA except the Pistons, how many have had a franchise player? None. To say you need a franchise player to win would be to ignore the entire history of the NBA".
See what I mean?Anyways, it is possible to win with just a very good team if they're completely committed, but it's easier if you have a superstar to have the other teams defence consentrate on.
Perhaps what we should then do is define what a superstar is. Was Larry Bird a superstar because he was ordained such by the NBA. Or did he earn that status by being a very good fundamentaly sound player surrounded by other fundamentaly sound players, who played as team and were then considered superstars, or at worst, stars. I remember when Bird came into the league. He had a rep as a great shooter at the college level. But scouts also said he couldn't jump and was too slow. Maybe the problem is that the term superstar has been cheapened by great athelete's who can't even defend the pick and roll. Bricky said the world championships don't equate to the NBA. He's right, but I'm not sure thats a good thing.
Please folks, discussing WC and US preformace in it as if it has anything to do with the NBA is sophmoric and pointless. Team US played to gether for exactly 90 days, not exactly the kind of time that is needed to practice a full book of plays, defensive assingments, rotations and then test them out in scrimages and warm up games. The Greek team played extreemly, they played smart team ball, but they are hardly a shining example of how and NBA team ought to or even COULD look and paly through out an full NBA season then post season.
NBA championship teams rely HEAVELY on outstanding players who lead the team no just in acts of scroing, rebounding and defending but with a serious presence that is respected and followed by the team. The list of these men is long but a few of the names at the top: Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russel, Cousey, Chamberlin, Jabar and Shaq ALL were much more than superstars, and their teammates knew it, respected it and followed them, in some cases even after they were in decline.
Muss may or may not beable to get the guys to paly well as a team, maybe even greater than the sum of the parts but unless a true outstanding leader emerges on the floor (possibly Artest) they will be out maneed by the top tier teams in NBA.
NBA championship teams rely HEAVELY on outstanding players who lead the team no just in acts of scroing, rebounding and defending but with a serious presence that is respected and followed by the team. The list of these men is long but a few of the names at the top: Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russel, Cousey, Chamberlin, Jabar and Shaq ALL were much more than superstars, and their teammates knew it, respected it and followed them, in some cases even after they were in decline.
Muss may or may not beable to get the guys to paly well as a team, maybe even greater than the sum of the parts but unless a true outstanding leader emerges on the floor (possibly Artest) they will be out maneed by the top tier teams in NBA.
I think it is quite clear that the NBA and World Championship/Olympic basketball are interchangable. Also clear - Larry Bird's accolades and success playing basketball are solely due to the NBA making us believe his greatness. Plus, relying on scouts touting physical attributes are the key to success.[/sarcasm]
Anyway, this: is the GM's job, not the coach's. The coach can only work with what he has; the players on his team really aren't up to him. Perhaps a better question would be - "To what success can Musselman coach the players he has?" But to try and answer would lead to such inane thoughts and comments that it would, in effect, be the same as the question you asked.
Anyway, this: is the GM's job, not the coach's. The coach can only work with what he has; the players on his team really aren't up to him. Perhaps a better question would be - "To what success can Musselman coach the players he has?" But to try and answer would lead to such inane thoughts and comments that it would, in effect, be the same as the question you asked.
OK. A few of you got it. The rest of you, well, it was interesting. I chose Larry Bird because he is probably my favorite NBA player. Ranked just above Bob Petit. The scout I heard, by the way, was non other than Scotty Sterling, who happens to work for the Kings in similar capacity. At the time he was working for the Warriors. He actually said on KNBR that he wasn't sure that Bird would make it in the NBA. A statement I'm sure that he regrets.
I'm not trying to equate the teams in Europe with the NBA. They play with different rules. But there was a time when you could throw together a handful of NBA stars, go over there and kick butt. We can't do that anymore. Personally, I don't give a tinkers damm about the world championships. But I can't egnore the fact that either they have gotten better, or we have gotten worse. If we had a best of seven series with the Greek team, I have no doubt who would win. Anyway, I'm beating a dead horse here. Its time to close this thread........
I'm not trying to equate the teams in Europe with the NBA. They play with different rules. But there was a time when you could throw together a handful of NBA stars, go over there and kick butt. We can't do that anymore. Personally, I don't give a tinkers damm about the world championships. But I can't egnore the fact that either they have gotten better, or we have gotten worse. If we had a best of seven series with the Greek team, I have no doubt who would win. Anyway, I'm beating a dead horse here. Its time to close this thread........