Can Josh Smith be saved?

[Sac.Kings]

The question has now become "Can Josh Smith save us.. from ourselves?" In all seriousness, something needs to be done, and quickly before this season gets completely out of hand. We need the 3rd head for our own 3 headed monster. I hope PDA is literally melting his cell phone making calls.

 

[Sac.1989]

he is on behalf of vivek. josh smith will be a king by the deadline, his game against us was a taster. He knows he was showing off for his new home crowd, except it wasnt showing off at all. watch this space, seriously...

 

[KingsFanGER]

Sigh - i wanted Smith, cause I trusted Malone to alter his bad habits and make him into a productive player. Without Malone and eventually the green light, to play, how he wants to, i'm not that enthusiastic when it comes to trading for Smith.

 

[Albatros]

Smith isn't here, so it's all conjecture obviously but how do we know the new coach would give smith the "green light to play how he wants"

Not really a topic worth discussing at this point really.

 

[randymoss1881]

Smith isn't here, so it's all conjecture obviously but how do we know the new coach would give smith the "green light to play how he wants"

Not really a topic worth discussing at this point really.

The next coach is Corbin who is a bad head coach and will be a yes man. Which will be to run and gun smith won't respect that clown.

 

[Albatros]

The next coach is Corbin who is a bad head coach and will be a yes man. Which will be to run and gun smith won't respect that clown.

Maybe, but thats still more conjecture.

 

[dude12]

Smith is going to be here soon...perhaps a poll with timelines....under 1 week, 1-3 weeks, 3-5 weeks, etc. he will be here sooner than later and I think Landry, who is Malones guy will be part of the deal plus DWill.

 

[Amit149]

Smith is going to be here soon...perhaps a poll with timelines....under 1 week, 1-3 weeks, 3-5 weeks, etc. he will be here sooner than later and I think Landry, who is Malones guy will be part of the deal plus DWill.

If it's Landry and DWill for Smith- I actually like it.

 

[swisshh]

Given the recent narrative and the fact that the roster does not fit what PDA wants, I expect the Josh Smith trade talks to begin again.

 

[randymoss1881]

Not only will we trade for this clown I have a feeling bill Simmions will be all over twitter jumping for joy as we get suckered into trading Ben for rondo.

Rondo and smith are rare company for bad shooting
Rondo: 39%/24%/43%
Smith: 38%/26%/48%

 

[KingsFanGER]

Not only will we trade for this clown I have a feeling bill Simmions will be all over twitter jumping for joy as we get suckered into trading Ben for rondo.

Rondo and smith are rare company for bad shooting
Rondo: 39%/24%/43%
Smith: 38%/26%/48%

Both can influence the game despite shooting poorly.
Maybe this can work, if everyone not named Smith and Rondo can hit jumpshots from mid range at least. 1 lob target in Smith and 3 shooters do not sound too bad for a guy like Rondo. Still this wouldn't compliment Cousins post game at all, cause Rondo basically makes everyone on the roster into a catch and finish player.
Still doubt PDA is stupid enough to trade Ben.

 

[hrdboild]

Can Josh Smith be saved? Yes I think so. Mike Woodson showed how to get the most of his talent in the 2009-2010 season. He started 81 games at PF and shot 7 three pointers the entire season. He was an All Star that season by the numbers, if not in fact. Is this the right situation for him to succeed? That's where I have reservations. With Malone in charge I think the answer was clearly no. There was no room left in the offense for another volume scorer and we could find better fits defensively -- in particular we needed somebody with enough size to competently backup Cousins at C.

But with Malone gone and a new running team the mandate of the front office (let's face it, this is what's coming whether we like it or not), Josh Smith isn't a horrible fit provided you implement a system whereby he's fined and/or disciplined every time he attempts a three point shot. Try to lure Rondo in the off-season and you have a high-flying, dynamic offense and a scattering of good individual defenders. You also have exactly one three-point threat in your lineup so the margin for error is pretty slim. The defense needs to take away open threes from the other team and the offense needs to emphasize multiple points of attack to make up for the lack of floor spacing. I do think there's a system which could make that lineup work (Rondo/McLemore/Gay/Smith/Cousins), but that's only if you get Rondo to come to Sacramento and that's a long shot. George Karl would be an ideal coaching choice for that team.

And for the record, I think Malone's plan had more long-term potential to be great than the high-flying running lineup does even if you get Rondo, Smith, and George Karl to come. That's because Malone's system was predicated on roles not players. You can swap out players if the system and coach remain consistent. The flashy running lineup falls apart as the athleticism of Smith, Gay, and Rondo declines or George Karl decides to retire or ownership cheaps out on re-signing him (hello dysfunctional Denver Nuggets of 2013 and 2014).

 

[randymoss1881]

Can Josh Smith be saved? Yes I think so. Mike Woodson showed how to get the most of his talent in the 2009-2010 season. He started 81 games at PF and shot 7 three pointers the entire season. He was an All Star that season by the numbers, if not in fact. Is this the right situation for him to succeed? That's where I have reservations. With Malone in charge I think the answer was clearly no. There was no room left in the offense for another volume scorer and we could find better fits defensively -- in particular we needed somebody with enough size to competently backup Cousins at C.

But with Malone gone and a new running team the mandate of the front office (let's face it, this is what's coming whether we like it or not), Josh Smith isn't a horrible fit provided you implement a system whereby he's fined and/or disciplined every time he attempts a three point shot. Try to lure Rondo in the off-season and you have a high-flying, dynamic offense and a scattering of good individual defenders. You also have exactly one three-point threat in your lineup so the margin for error is pretty slim. The defense needs to take away open threes from the other team and the offense needs to emphasize multiple points of attack to make up for the lack of floor spacing. I do think there's a system which could make that lineup work (Rondo/McLemore/Gay/Smith/Cousins), but that's only if you get Rondo to come to Sacramento and that's a long shot. George Karl would be an ideal coaching choice for that team.

And for the record, I think Malone's plan had more long-term potential to be great than the high-flying running lineup does even if you get Rondo, Smith, and George Karl to come. That's because Malone's system was predicated on roles not players. You can swap out players if the system and coach remain consistent. The flashy running lineup falls apart as the athleticism of Smith, Gay, and Rondo declines or George Karl decides to retire or ownership cheaps out on re-signing him (hello dysfunctional Denver Nuggets of 2013 and 2014).

Malone has nothing to do with wheatear he fits he doesn't fit. There's just not enough shots to go around. DMC has to get 16-18 shots Gay needs 12-15, Collison needs 7-11, and I want Ben at 10-13. The lowest Smith hast attempted is 13shots he will be dipping into Bens jar of shots which is a disaster. We should have been looking to add to the bench not something like smith.

 

[hrdboild]

Malone has nothing to do with wheatear he fits he doesn't fit. There's just not enough shots to go around. DMC has to get 16-18 shots Gay needs 12-15, Collison needs 7-11, and I want Ben at 10-13. The lowest Smith hast attempted is 13shots he will be dipping into Bens jar of shots which is a disaster. We should have been looking to add to the bench not something like smith.

I think you missed the part where I said the team should try to get Smith, Rondo, and George Karl to make their "running" strategy work. At that point you're looking at five guys sharing the ball somewhat equally and an offense predicated on maximizing the athleticism and versatility of our wings. It's not going to be inside out. Cousins and Gay are going to have to switch to the opportunistic scoring mode they used over the summer with Team USA. There may be nights where they score 10 points and let someone else be the star because there's no JT in that lineup to do the dirty work without getting a lot of looks in the offense.

As much as I'm angry about Malone being fired, life does go on. He's not coming back and its' plainly obvious that no coach like him will be hired to take his place. Run and gun is coming and you can root for it to fail or you can remember that you're a Kings fan first and foremost and look for a way that it might succeed, if only temporarily. Thats how I feel about it anyway. Does that give PDA and Vivek license to continue believing their own delusions? Probably. So what? The next 5 years are going to be a lot more tolerable if the team is winning.

 

[randymoss1881]

I think you missed the part where I said the team should try to get Smith, Rondo, and George Karl to make their "running" strategy work. At that point you're looking at five guys sharing the ball somewhat equally and an offense predicated on maximizing the athleticism and versatility of our wings. It's not going to be inside out. Cousins and Gay are going to have to switch to the opportunistic scoring mode they used over the summer with Team USA. There may be nights where they score 10 points and let someone else be the star because there's no JT in that lineup to do the dirty work without getting a lot of looks in the offense.

.

I'm not willing to trade Ben for someone who can leave in the offseason. Isn't Karl known for clashing with players? Rondo clashed with rivers and he had great leadership there.

Id rather not see cousins ever get 10 points he is the most dominate offensive post player we shouldn't take the ball out of his hands. With that lineup he will have no space because Gay at 33% becomes the teams best 3 point shooter.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm not willing to trade Ben for someone who can leave in the offseason. Isn't Karl known for clashing with players? Rondo clashed with rivers and he had great leadership there.

Id rather not see cousins ever get 10 points he is the most dominate offensive post player we shouldn't take the ball out of his hands. With that lineup he will have no space because Gay at 33% becomes the teams best 3 point shooter.

Hell no we shouldn't trade Ben McLemore for half a season of Rondo! I didn't even want to make that trade last year. I was saying we should try to get him for spare parts or sign him as a free agent in the off-season. Bring in Josh Smith and George Karl now and then try to woo Rondo with a promising situation and a return to the playoffs.

 

[Merdiesel]

Hell no we shouldn't trade Ben McLemore for half a season of Rondo! I didn't even want to make that trade last year. I was saying we should try to get him for spare parts or sign him as a free agent in the off-season. Bring in Josh Smith and George Karl now and then try to woo Rondo with a promising situation and a return to the playoffs.

Karl and Smith would be awesome... I'm optimistic Smith will turn it around here. Please make it happen Sac!

 

[Albatros]

He's just been waived.

 

[Merdiesel]

He's just been waived.

No chance we pick him up? I'm assuming a team in the hunt will be all over him.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Wow. A straight-up waiver of Josh Smith is a stunning move, and it belies a lot of the chatter that we were desperate to trade for Smith but that Detroit wouldn't take the package we offered.

In waivers, if any team were to claim Smith they would have to take his entire salary - but they have to have the salary cap room to do so. Philly is the only team in that situation, and given how badly they're trying to save money and lose, I have a hard time seeing them pick up the nearly $40M left on his contract (this year would be pro-rated). So I'd say it's a given he clears waivers. At that point, it's basically Smith's choice. He can sign for the minimum anywhere he wants to. He can sign for more (and earn more, because the "set-off" that the Pistons' payments will be reduced by is less than the full amount of his new contract) with a team that has cap space or an exception to sign him.

Bottom line, we could get him for three years at minimum money - if he wants to play with us. However, so could the Spurs. Or the Mavericks. Or the Cavaliers. Or the Rockets. Or the Clippers. Or the Warriors. Or any other of a number of destinations that are likely to be more tempting to Smith right now.

But I sure hope PDA is on the phone and trying to get through Smith's agent's busy signal right now. At $13.5M for three years, he's a risk, but you think maybe he helps. At the minimum, he's a no-brainer. He's got all the athleticism and talent in the world, and if you can't make it work for the minimum? Cut him.

I am 100% behind aggressively pursuing him once he clears waivers (thanks, Philly!). Whether he's willing to come here is the real question.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

In waivers, if any team were to claim Smith they would have to take his entire salary - but they have to have the salary cap room to do so. Philly is the only team in that situation, and given how badly they're trying to save money and lose, I have a hard time seeing them pick up the nearly $40M left on his contract (this year would be pro-rated). So I'd say it's a given he clears waivers. At that point, it's basically Smith's choice. He can sign for the minimum anywhere he wants to. He can sign for more (and earn more, because the "set-off" that the Pistons' payments will be reduced by is less than the full amount of his new contract) with a team that has cap space or an exception to sign him.

Bottom line, we could get him for three years at minimum money - if he wants to play with us. However, so could the Spurs. Or the Mavericks. Or the Cavaliers. Or the Rockets. Or the Clippers. Or the Warriors. Or any other of a number of destinations that are likely to be more tempting to Smith right now.

At this stage, these are, really, the only two points that matter: sure, I can see why there's an argument to be made why the Kings want Josh Smith (I don't agree; I don't want anything to do with Josh Smith, but that's just my personal taste, and is neither here nor there), but why would Josh Smith want the Kings? The question that needs to be asked is, why would an unrestricted free agent Josh Smith, with his pick of all thirty teams in the NBA, choose to come here?

 

[Glenn]

At this stage, these are, really, the only two points that matter: sure, I can see why there's an argument to be made why the Kings want Josh Smith (I don't agree; I don't want anything to do with Josh Smith, but that's just my personal taste, and is neither here nor there), but why would Josh Smith want the Kings? The question that needs to be asked is, why would an unrestricted free agent Josh Smith, with his pick of all thirty teams in the NBA, choose to come here?

Because we have a great coach. Oh, wait .......

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The question that needs to be asked is, why would an unrestricted free agent Josh Smith, with his pick of all thirty teams in the NBA, choose to come here?

He might well not. I think there was some indication that he and Rudy Gay were close but I'm not sure if I actually heard that or if I'm jumbling things up in my mind and he's close with Rondo.

At any rate, Smith probably doesn't have his pick of the other 29 teams because there's got to be a mutual interest. Do the Spurs even have any desire to go there? He doesn't fit what the Sixers are doing. In fact, his reputation for being a bad locker room guy would suggest that the very top teams and the very bottom teams would probably prefer to pass. Those teams either on the edge of the playoffs (e.g. us) or on the edge of being finals contenders (e.g. Dallas) would seem to be the teams most likely to take that chance. But still, he'll probably have at least 5-10 teams who will be strongly interested. We ought to be one of them. Whether he's mutually interested, who knows?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Fine, I'll rephrase: however many teams may have interest in him, I would speculate that we're no higher than second from the bottom of teams that he's interested in. So, unless there's only two teams interested, I would suggest that the chances of him signing with Sacramento as a free agent aren't high enough to merit discussion..

 

[hrdboild]

He might well not. I think there was some indication that he and Rudy Gay were close but I'm not sure if I actually heard that or if I'm jumbling things up in my mind and he's close with Rondo.

Both Smith and Rondo attended Rudy's wedding.

I don't know how close they are, but they do seem to have an off court friendship of some kind.

 

[Amit149]

Fine, I'll rephrase: however many teams may have interest in him, I would speculate that we're no higher than second from the bottom of teams that he's interested in. So, unless there's only two teams interested, I would suggest that the chances of him signing with Sacramento as a free agent aren't high enough to merit discussion..

I disagree, this is not a guy like Ray Allen or even a Mike Miller we are talking about Josh freaking Smith- this guy is sure he can be a superstar and I think that if he will feel that we are taking him into account as a leading player and considering Rudy's renaissance with us he might sign here.
I'm not saying we are the leading team, I would rank it:
1. Mavs
2. Clippers
3. Indiana
4. Rockets
5. us

 

[Dreadnought]

I disagree, this is not a guy like Ray Allen or even a Mike Miller we are talking about Josh freaking Smith- this guy is sure he can be a superstar and I think that if he will feel that we are taking him into account as a leading player and considering Rudy's renaissance with us he might sign here.
I'm not saying we are the leading team, I would rank it:
1. Mavs
2. Clippers
3. Indiana
4. Rockets
5. us

I think you're taking for granted NBA players and their primary wants of 1. money and 2. winning. I doubt he chooses Sacramento since we offer neither and while your list agrees with the poster you quoted and myself, your narrative seems to disagree?

 

[Amit149]

I think you're taking for granted NBA players and their primary wants of 1. money and 2. winning. I doubt he chooses Sacramento since we offer neither and while your list agrees with the poster you quoted and myself, your narrative seems to disagree?

I'm not sure why you are working under the assumption we can't give him money, most contenders have much less to spare. about winning- it matters, to CERTAIN players, and I am not sure Smith is one of them. some players prefer being a key piece at a bad team rather than having a small role on a good one.

my list puts us at 5 which is where i think things stand now, but obviously not all of the teams i mentioned will make a run at him and the narrative i suggested is simply saying the gaps between those spots are small. and i can see a situation in which he signs for us.

in the post i quoted it says: "I would suggest that the chances of him signing with Sacramento as a free agent aren't high enough to merit discussion.." and i disagree, you can be in the discussion even though you are not the favourite just like you can be a heavy contender but not be the favourite.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Fine, I'll rephrase: however many teams may have interest in him, I would speculate that we're no higher than second from the bottom of teams that he's interested in. So, unless there's only two teams interested, I would suggest that the chances of him signing with Sacramento as a free agent aren't high enough to merit discussion..

I'm not so sure, he would be a potentially integral guy here. Not only that, we could sell him on a larger contract next season that others may pay down the road.

If I'm Smith I get a hold of my agent, and his agent would tell him the same thing possibly.

 

[hrdboild]

Josh Smith is in the rare position now of choosing exactly where he wants to play. He's already getting paid the 28 million dollars he signed for through 2017. I could be wrong, but I don't think his decision of where to play next and how many years to commit will have much to do with the money involved. It'll be about getting in a good situation now with an organization he thinks is building toward where he wants to be. As an outsider, Houston looks like a good fit for him but if he already gets along well with Rudy Gay and he likes what Vivek and PDA have to say, we might have a legit shot. Do we even want him here? There's arguments to be made both ways. I still think if you can make him a post player 100% of the time, not a guy who hangs out on the perimeter and tries to create with the ball, he could be a valuable player in the right kind of offense. He has been before.