Stojakovic164ever
Prospect
He is the shining light in our team. Whats his ceiling? Do you believe he can be close to Dame Lillard level?? I use Lillard cause he is loyal and flat out destroys every game for years. Opinions??
Can Fox become in future as good as Lillard?
- Thread starter Stojakovic164ever
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Well, impact is going to be somewhat dependent on who he has around him, and it's hard to make one to one player comparisons. I personally don't think he will be as good as Dame because of shooting, but who knows what the league will be like in 5 years. I'd say All Star remains on the table, but at this point it's hard to confidently say Superstar. Relative ranking makes more sense - I think Dame is a top 3 PG; will Fox be a top 3 PG at some point in his career?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
His three point shot has looked better this year and that’s a huge first step. 38% from 3 and 75% from the stripe would be a nice goal for him over the next 2 years. He has the ability to be an impact defensive player and has yet to do it on that end consistently. Those are his points of emphasis.
kb02
All-Star
I think his longer term target is Gary Payton. Long term ceiling relative to Payton, better shooter, prob about the same as a facilitator, a notch or so below Payton defensively.
Gets a career night (following a game of 14/3) = already there?? You're kidding right? Dame is averaging 28/7 on the season on a winning team vs Fox 20/6. Fox has scored over 30 points 11 times in his career. Dame has scored 50 and more 13 times. I'm not even knocking Fox but to suggest that he's already as good or impactful as Lillard is absolutely ridiculous. If we swapped out Fox for Lillard on the current roster nobody would even be thinking of trying to tank for more talent.
SwipaTical
G-League
If he can improve on his shot he'll be better than lillard. He'll be unguardable. That's a big IF though.
DesertFox
Starter
Sure, Fox has a shot at having a Lillard-like impact, just because he is so talented. But right now, he is closer to CJ McCollum in terms of value.
Dame takes and makes difficult threes, gets to the line and hits his FT, and makes plays for teammates. Everything Fox is good at, Dame still does better. The gap in terms of shooting is much bigger than the gap that exists in terms of Fox's physical advantages. Lillard isn't exactly Steve Nash running and jumping around. Even as a defender, Fox has not proven himself better yet, although I think he should be.
Dame takes and makes difficult threes, gets to the line and hits his FT, and makes plays for teammates. Everything Fox is good at, Dame still does better. The gap in terms of shooting is much bigger than the gap that exists in terms of Fox's physical advantages. Lillard isn't exactly Steve Nash running and jumping around. Even as a defender, Fox has not proven himself better yet, although I think he should be.
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
They are different players. Fox will likely never shoot and score at Lillards clip but he can be as valuable over time ...but there’s still a lot of things he doesn’t do consistently to really break out as upper echelon player(perennial all star)
Fox is consistently very good, but is only great sometimes. I like that he’s hovering around 35 percent from three but his mid range shot is very inconsistent and so is his free throw shooting. I also think he can be a dominant defensive player but for whatever reason he hasn’t become that. I know he makes big defensive plays nightly but I think most of us think our backcourt gets torched too easily and it’s not all on Buddy and schemes.
I still think he’ll reach that status, he’s still only 23 and improves every season for the most part. I just hope one of these next couple of seasons the improvement is more massive rather than “he does this or that a little better than last season”. Some intangibles will come into play like getting more respect from officials and being able to play his style nightly without burning himself out.
Fox is consistently very good, but is only great sometimes. I like that he’s hovering around 35 percent from three but his mid range shot is very inconsistent and so is his free throw shooting. I also think he can be a dominant defensive player but for whatever reason he hasn’t become that. I know he makes big defensive plays nightly but I think most of us think our backcourt gets torched too easily and it’s not all on Buddy and schemes.
I still think he’ll reach that status, he’s still only 23 and improves every season for the most part. I just hope one of these next couple of seasons the improvement is more massive rather than “he does this or that a little better than last season”. Some intangibles will come into play like getting more respect from officials and being able to play his style nightly without burning himself out.
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Not really interested in comparing who is better but more interested in the question, Can we win in the playoffs with Fox?
Yes, we can but we need to surround him with a couple of guys who can defend, Haliburton needs to be one of the Kings “big 3”, Bagley continues to improve and then hopefully the 3rd piece of the Big 3 comes in the draft next year.
I mean Lillard can’t do it by himself either. They are damn close but not there yet. Lillard, CJ, who is the 3rd piece of their big 3?
Yes, we can but we need to surround him with a couple of guys who can defend, Haliburton needs to be one of the Kings “big 3”, Bagley continues to improve and then hopefully the 3rd piece of the Big 3 comes in the draft next year.
I mean Lillard can’t do it by himself either. They are damn close but not there yet. Lillard, CJ, who is the 3rd piece of their big 3?
steelevt
All-Star
Duh. Harry Giles
gunks
Hall of Famer
Lillard is a very high bar. I dig setting high expectations, but the conversation is premature.
I hope Fox stays aggressive on offense and continues to hit those 3s. This will be a fun debate to revisit if Fox can hover around 24+ ppg for a month or so, which I think is doable for him on this roster and at the pace we’ve been playing at.
I hope Fox stays aggressive on offense and continues to hit those 3s. This will be a fun debate to revisit if Fox can hover around 24+ ppg for a month or so, which I think is doable for him on this roster and at the pace we’ve been playing at.
macadocious
Starter
Gary Payton would be greatly diminished w the hand check rules now., but, yes, obviously.
Section 101
All-Star
So looking at the western conference who are the top point guards?
In no order top 6:
Cp3
Luka (personally dont consider him one so made top 6)
Curry
Jamal Murray
Lillard
Fox
You can argue Fox is top 4 if you dont count Luka, with cp3 lillard and curry ahead.
In no order top 6:
Cp3
Luka (personally dont consider him one so made top 6)
Curry
Jamal Murray
Lillard
Fox
You can argue Fox is top 4 if you dont count Luka, with cp3 lillard and curry ahead.
steelevt
All-Star
what about ja morant? isnt he who fox thinks he is?
Livinthedream
All-Star
Define PG. Only CP3 fits the classic label.
Section 101
All-Star
Also note cp3 35, Curry 32, lillard 30.
Section 101
All-Star
The guy who's played 72 career games and fox smoked each time head to head?
Needs more time before hes in the conversation.
Section 101
All-Star
Typically guards the other teams pg. In this case the league lists their position for all star voting purposes.
Gary Payton is one of the best defensive PGs of all time. Fox isn't even anywhere close to that.
I don't foresee Fox being able to shoot like Lillard. Even if they wind up with the same 3pt%, Lillard takes about double the amount that Fox does and he can pull up pretty much anywhere and anytime he wants. That's what makes Steph Curry so valuable. It's the ability to get the shot off in almost any scenario while still hitting it at the same or better clip than Fox can when shooting a wide open 3.
Fox had me scared in the preseason that his shot had taken even more of a downturn but it's been a lot better in the regular season. He still needs to work on it a lot off the dribble but it's fairly reliable when he's open. I just don't see him ever becoming a big threat out there as long as his FT% remains in the low 70% area. He's just not the shooter that Dame and some of these other guys are.
I don't foresee Fox being able to shoot like Lillard. Even if they wind up with the same 3pt%, Lillard takes about double the amount that Fox does and he can pull up pretty much anywhere and anytime he wants. That's what makes Steph Curry so valuable. It's the ability to get the shot off in almost any scenario while still hitting it at the same or better clip than Fox can when shooting a wide open 3.
Fox had me scared in the preseason that his shot had taken even more of a downturn but it's been a lot better in the regular season. He still needs to work on it a lot off the dribble but it's fairly reliable when he's open. I just don't see him ever becoming a big threat out there as long as his FT% remains in the low 70% area. He's just not the shooter that Dame and some of these other guys are.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It's a totally different league though. Gary Payton wouldn't be the same Gary Payton today. Just like Curry or Lillard would be much different back then. That said, Fox is showing flashes of similarity which is nice indeed.
Yeah like I'm not comparing him in a literal sense to Payton but if you say that a guy like Pat Bev is the 2021 equivalent to Payton defensively, then Fox still got a really long ways to go to get up there with the likes of those guys. Holiday, Bledsoe, Brogdon, CP3, Lowry, Dunn, Smart, Rubio, Ball, and Murray are all much better defenders than Fox and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
I think at this point it's obvious that he is the best player on the team but it's also obvious that barring some massive uptick in shooting, the Kings are going to need him to at least be the 2nd best player on the team if they want to make a playoff run. No knock on Fox at all but he's just not at the level to be able to put a team on his back.
SactownShaq
G-League
Can y’all stop bringing up Dame, it’s a sensitive subjects. Imagine him and Boogie, with I.T as the 6th man... pain.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
To be fair, there are only a handful of guys that can elevate a mediocre team to the playoffs on their own. If Fox continues improving at the same clip as he has each year in his career I think he can be a dominant player. In three more years he will only be 26. We just have to have the right pieces around him.
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