Buddy gone?

#61
Naps was saying a couple of days ago that there were three separate stories about Hield's dissatisfaction with the sub role. Then we have this "like" from Hield on a possible trade. Seems like enough smoke there to say that Buddy isn't happy with the situation and may be asking for a trade.
I think there's a difference between personal satisfaction with one's role/position and team chemistry. They are not the same thing. You can be unhappy that you're being underpaid at your job, doesn't mean you don't like your colleagues or that you don't work well with them or that you pull the team down with your dissatisfaction.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#62
I think there's a difference between personal satisfaction with one's role/position and team chemistry. They are not the same thing. You can be unhappy that you're being underpaid at your job, doesn't mean you don't like your colleagues or that you don't work well with them or that you pull the team down with your dissatisfaction.
I mostly agree with that. It really depends on the severity and length of the unhappiness. If it goes to Dedmon levels, then he's probably not going to be with the team after this year. If it's something that is manageable, then he probably will.
 
#63
I think there's a difference between personal satisfaction with one's role/position and team chemistry. They are not the same thing. You can be unhappy that you're being underpaid at your job, doesn't mean you don't like your colleagues or that you don't work well with them or that you pull the team down with your dissatisfaction.
This is true, but it is equally true that dissatisfaction in a losing environment will sink the ship faster and deeper. The Kings are winning now. Winning mutes everything. Let see what's between Buddy's ears and what comes out Buddy's mouth if/when the Kings lose. My bet, team chemistry will definitely be impacted.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#64
This is true, but it is equally true that dissatisfaction in a losing environment will sink the ship faster and deeper. The Kings are winning now. Winning mutes everything. Let see what's between Buddy's ears and what comes out Buddy's mouth if/when the Kings lose. My bet, team chemistry will definitely be impacted.
The Kings are beating the teams they should be beating. And teams they should have been beating all year long. The real test is what happens when the overflow of bigs re-enters the picture and what it does to the things that have been working in terms of rotation management. It doesn't matter what any one player does. Since the All star break Buddy's minutes have gone down to role player levels without real reason to be honest since most of the Kings best qualfying 5 man units in regards to net rating feature Buddy in them according to advanced stats. Now, contrast that with the fact that Bogdan hasn't been getting those minutes. Giles has. Giles has been playing well individually but from a management standpoint this has all the makings of something that can have many negative long term effects. The only guaranteed long term player pissed and two free agents that you may not be able to pay or supply a desired role to moving forward. Vlade is gambling a bit here, we'll see how this works out I guess.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#65
I mostly agree with that. It really depends on the severity and length of the unhappiness. If it goes to Dedmon levels, then he's probably not going to be with the team after this year. If it's something that is manageable, then he probably will.
It makes no sense to play Buddy Hield 23 mpg unless this team is a clear cut contender and he's willing to be your instant offense 6th man. Unfortunately for the Kings the timing for that to happen isn't there. If Buddy finishes the year off seeing his mpg dwindle into the teens then this is going to go bad and honestly, it should. It's common sense.
 
#66
It makes no sense to play Buddy Hield 23 mpg unless this team is a clear cut contender and he's willing to be your instant offense 6th man. Unfortunately for the Kings the timing for that to happen isn't there. If Buddy finishes the year off seeing his mpg dwindle into the teens then this is going to go bad and honestly, it should. It's common sense.
If he wants more minutes play defense and stop making unforced turnovers.
 
#67
The last game Buddy had the second lowest minutes in the game and the way he’s being used it’s obvious why.
They want him on the floor for his shooting but he is a liability on defense and a questionable ball handler.

Yes I and most folks like Buddy taking the big free throws when needed but every time he gets the ball in crunch time the first thing that comes to my mind is he going to turn it over.

When we have 4 players planted back at the 3 point line and the ball in buddy’s hand we are not moving down hill attacking the basket and I would prefer the ball in some else’s hands to attack the lane and pass out to someone like Buddy. His 3 point % would improve instead of chucking up off balance 3’s.

I was not a fan of giving him that big payday and believe he had the owner in his corner with that.
If he is worth what we are paying him and his performance matched that he should be easy to move without throwing in other key players in the deal.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#68
It makes no sense to play Buddy Hield 23 mpg unless this team is a clear cut contender and he's willing to be your instant offense 6th man. Unfortunately for the Kings the timing for that to happen isn't there. If Buddy finishes the year off seeing his mpg dwindle into the teens then this is going to go bad and honestly, it should. It's common sense.
It makes a lot of sense. The coach is not predetermining minutes for anybody on the team, including Hield. If Hield is playing well, he'll play more minutes; if not, he'll play less. He's not calculating minutes by his contract. It's all about winning ball games, and if Hield isn't happy with that, then too bad.
 
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#69
Honestly, i dont know his defensive stats/rating ect., but he is not a terrible defender when he is dialed in (dialed in being the operative words). He actually seemed to do well when guarding beal the other night. His biggest issues are his basketball IQ (he makes some truely horrific decisions with the ball, and routinely throws the ball into open space/stands or directly to the other team) especially in crunch time. Part of that is the IQ but the other part is #2 problem, his handles. The Handles (while improving) are so nerve racking. My buttcheeks clench when he drives the ball in traffic cuz he will turn it over nearly 50% of the time. The handles though are improving which he deserves some credit for. Honestly though, i would still put him in the game to get buckets over any player not named Fox. He has some ice in the veins and isnt afraid to shoot. His offense has been far more efficient since going to the bench including taking the ball to the rack when his outside shot isn't falling, expanding his midrange numbers too. I think walton is making a mistake keeping him on the bench foe long swaths but it does seem to be working numerically for him and the team. Still, finishers should be Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Barnes, and Giles/Holmes/Bargley.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#70
It makes a lot of sense. The coach is not predetermining minutes for anybody on the team, including Hield. If Hield is playing well, he'll play more minutes; if not, he'll play less. He's not calculating minutes by his contract. It's all about winning ball games, and if Hield isn't happy with that, then too bad.
What about the team though? Plenty of advanced metrics dictate the team is better when Hield is on the floor.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#71
If he wants more minutes play defense and stop making unforced turnovers.
What turnovers? This is the same misnomer constantly repeated. He'll make a bad turnover here and there but look at his numbers this season and specifically the last 2 months. Buddy has had a positive 1+ assist over turnover on average.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#73
His first touch tonight says it all.
No, the stats do and a turnover is a turnover. In Feb and March he's averaging roughly 1.5. That ain't your problem game to game. I don't care if he's bouncing it off the ceiling if it's only so many times on average it ain't hurting you. Some games will be rough but the average is still the average.
 
#75
No, the stats do and a turnover is a turnover. In Feb and March he's averaging roughly 1.5. That ain't your problem game to game. I don't care if he's bouncing it off the ceiling if it's only so many times on average it ain't hurting you. Some games will be rough but the average is still the average.
A turnover is not a turnover. Buddy's lead to fast break points on.the other end.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#76
A turnover is not a turnover. Buddy's lead to fast break points on.the other end.
Yes, it is. The Kings shoot far more bad shots that lead to transition buckets than that 1.5 turnovers by Buddy lead to fastbreaks. And again, the team is a better team with Buddy on the floor. The advanced stats back it up. Turnover and all.
 
#77
Honestly, i dont know his defensive stats/rating ect., but he is not a terrible defender when he is dialed in (dialed in being the operative words). He actually seemed to do well when guarding beal the other night. His biggest issues are his basketball IQ (he makes some truely horrific decisions with the ball, and routinely throws the ball into open space/stands or directly to the other team) especially in crunch time. Part of that is the IQ but the other part is #2 problem, his handles. The Handles (while improving) are so nerve racking. My buttcheeks clench when he drives the ball in traffic cuz he will turn it over nearly 50% of the time. The handles though are improving which he deserves some credit for. Honestly though, i would still put him in the game to get buckets over any player not named Fox. He has some ice in the veins and isnt afraid to shoot. His offense has been far more efficient since going to the bench including taking the ball to the rack when his outside shot isn't falling, expanding his midrange numbers too. I think walton is making a mistake keeping him on the bench foe long swaths but it does seem to be working numerically for him and the team. Still, finishers should be Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Barnes, and Giles/Holmes/Bargley.
he’s not good enough for this to be an option for him
 
#79
Hield has gone on a rampage since he's come off the bench. He has basically been the best or 2nd best player next to Fox in that time frame with no one else playing even close to their levels.

His turnovers may be dumb and annoying but he has completely turned his season around since his brickfest to start the year.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#80
My guess is Buddy likes Sac and his teammates. Competitively he hates coming off the bench. For the season he's willing to do it for the good of the team.

But bigger picture, the team really started rolling after he went to the bench. He's quite unlikely to get put back into the starting 5 next season. Fox/Bogi predictably mesh better. And in knowing that and with the understanding your prime only lasts so many years, Buddy probably looks to move elsewhere this summer.
 
#81
My guess is Buddy likes Sac and his teammates. Competitively he hates coming off the bench. For the season he's willing to do it for the good of the team.

But bigger picture, the team really started rolling after he went to the bench. He's quite unlikely to get put back into the starting 5 next season. Fox/Bogi predictably mesh better. And in knowing that and with the understanding your prime only lasts so many years, Buddy probably looks to move elsewhere this summer.
Buddy just locked into a long term contract with us. A strong GM tells Buddy and his agent to kick rocks and wait on the bench until his numbers called but here we are with Vlade.
 
#82
hield makes the worst turnovers ever, at the most inopportune times, total momentum killers and game swingers, happens all the time, just most of the time we are able to salvage it but sometimes we are not and it really crushes the team

I don't think it is so much a ball handling thing, seems like a poor IQ/judgment/mental thing.

I'd really rather have anyone else handling the ball in crunch time
 
#83
My guess is Buddy likes Sac and his teammates. Competitively he hates coming off the bench. For the season he's willing to do it for the good of the team.

But bigger picture, the team really started rolling after he went to the bench. He's quite unlikely to get put back into the starting 5 next season. Fox/Bogi predictably mesh better. And in knowing that and with the understanding your prime only lasts so many years, Buddy probably looks to move elsewhere this summer.
He's a 6th man everywhere in this league, except Detroit, Cavs, and maybe the Lakers. No team is going to want to start a 28 year who plays bad defense, makes bad turnovers, and doesn't offer much outside of scoring.

Here's hoping he has some smart people around him that can explain this to him.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#84
hield makes the worst turnovers ever, at the most inopportune times, total momentum killers and game swingers, happens all the time, just most of the time we are able to salvage it but sometimes we are not and it really crushes the team

I don't think it is so much a ball handling thing, seems like a poor IQ/judgment/mental thing.

I'd really rather have anyone else handling the ball in crunch time
And typically they are in games that shouldn't hinge on one or two plays but they for some reason do. That isn't on any one player unless it's a situation where said player is putting up 20+ shots and hitting less than 30% while also not getting to the line.
 
#85
hield makes the worst turnovers ever, at the most inopportune times, total momentum killers and game swingers, happens all the time, just most of the time we are able to salvage it but sometimes we are not and it really crushes the team

I don't think it is so much a ball handling thing, seems like a poor IQ/judgment/mental thing.

I'd really rather have anyone else handling the ball in crunch time
But then you have to remember that the Kings aren't getting to within 6 without Buddy spamming 3 pointers from all over the place. Not many players can do that.

Replace his shots with Bogdan and the Kings are probably still down 14 and the topic of turnovers never even comes up.
 
#86
Malik Beasley will be available if Buddy walk or demands a trade he's essentially Buddy (slightly lesser shooter/better passer) with Mclemores athletic ability. He's also only 23 and is perfect fit in every way next to Fox.

Since he was freed from Denver he's putting up 21ppg on near 44% 3 point shooting thus far 5 boards and 2 assists. Really not worried if anyone other than Fox atm wants out or a different role. Kings need to offer him Lavine/Buddy money next offseason.
 
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#87
We have Buddy, Bogi, and Bazemore that play the 2. We could keep going with all three together, and our recent record suggests that could work, although I feel that there is maybe room for just two of them to be happy and content beyond this season. Each has shown that they are good enough to contribute - although none are without obvious flaws. I feel shipping Buddy or Bogi would give a greater return than Baze, and that Baze is more likely to be content getting minutes from the bench.
 
#88
Sooooooo

Next year If we keep James, Beli (non-guaranteed) We could end up with only 8:

PG Fox, Cojo
SG James
SF Barnes
PF Bagley,Beli,Parker
C Holmes

Yogi FA,
Bogi gets big time FIBA Bogi Money Kings don't Match
Buddy Demands a Trade
Basemore FA
Len FA
Giles - we cant match another team 8 mil offer

Best case scenario - Trade Buddy Draft night for 2 1st rd picks
Match Bogi best offer (Can afford with Buddy gone)
Use bird rights to Sign Basemore and Len to reasonable offers

PG Fox,Cojo,1st rd
SG Bogi,Basemore, James
SF Barnes, 1st rd,2nd rd
PF Bagley,Beli,Parker
C Holmes,Len, 2nd rd
 
#89
Sooooooo

Next year If we keep James, Beli (non-guaranteed) We could end up with only 8:

PG Fox, Cojo
SG James
SF Barnes
PF Bagley,Beli,Parker
C Holmes

Yogi FA,
Bogi gets big time FIBA Bogi Money Kings don't Match
Buddy Demands a Trade
Basemore FA
Len FA
Giles - we cant match another team 8 mil offer

Best case scenario - Trade Buddy Draft night for 2 1st rd picks
Match Bogi best offer (Can afford with Buddy gone)
Use bird rights to Sign Basemore and Len to reasonable offers

PG Fox,Cojo,1st rd
SG Bogi,Basemore, James
SF Barnes, 1st rd,2nd rd
PF Bagley,Beli,Parker
C Holmes,Len, 2nd rd
We'll be lucky if half the starting lineup even plays 60 games for the year
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#90
I love basketball, and now retired, I spend a ridiculous amount of time watching basketball. Mostly college, but a lot of NBA basketball. I like to feel as though I'm fairly well educated about the game. After over 50 years of watching everyone one from Oscar Robertson, Bob Pettit (my idol, and someone I knew) Wilt Chamberlain, etc. to Lebron and Michael, I think at worse, I've picked up a few tricks of the trade. In general, there are players with impact stats, and players with worthless stats.

There was a Kings game a week or so ago where Giles ended up (don't quote me) with like 3 pts, 3 or 4 boards and a blocked shot. If you were only looking at those stats, you wouldn't be impressed. But if you watched that game, you would know that we wouldn't have won that game without Giles. Basketball is a game of runs, and who has the momentum last. Points and rebounds are important, but what's more important is what you do in a crucial moment of the game, when your team has momentum and is on a run.

We tend to remember that blocked shot with 5 seconds left in the game and we were up by two, because it saved the game. That's when a stat is meaningful. Scoring 12 pt's in the 4th quarter when your down by 25 pts and your on the floor with our 3rd stringers isn't meaningful. So where am I going with this? This thread for the most part has been about Buddy, and so is this post. Let me start by saying I really like Buddy, but probably not as much as he likes himself.

I say that because there are times when Buddy only cares about Buddy, and frankly, oddly enough, some of his best games are when he has that attitude. Buddy plays his worse basketball when he tries to be something he's not. He's a scorer! He's not a play maker! To be a play maker you have to see the game in an entirely different way, and Buddy isn't capable of that, at least not right now. I hate saying that he doesn't have good BBIQ because it implies that perhaps he's stupid, and he's not. Say it anyway you want, feel for the game, BBIQ, whatever? He's just lacking in that area.

Example: Two games ago, Buddy was bringing the ball up the court. The Kings were on a bit of a run. Barnes had run to the left corner, and Buddy dribbled the ball to the left side of the court toward Barnes direction. As he neared the sideline, and the edge of the 3pt circle, the other team doubled on him and tried to trap him there. Wisely, Buddy saw the trap coming and did a spin move back to his left to escape the trap. OK, so far so good. But then, he immediately did a reverse spin back to his right, and right back into the trap. Why?

Now this possession didn't end up in a turnover. Buddy managed to throw the ball over the top to Fox. It got tipped by a defender, but Fox beat everyone to the loose ball, and managed to get a contested shot off which he missed. So, OK, no turnover, but Buddy wasted around 15 seconds of the shot clock, and killed any momentum we had. We still won the game, so no harm, no foul, right? However, this is why Buddy didn't play one second of the 4th quarter in the Toronto game. It was a game, where just one mistake at the wrong time could be the difference between winning and losing. And Buddy is prone to making mistakes.

Unfortunately, we still lost the game, and I tend to agree with those that say Buddy should have been on the floor for that last play. He has a record of hitting crazy shots at the end of the game, and at worse, he would have been someone they had to guard. Maybe Walton decided to simply dance with the one he brought. That they deserved to finish the game. If we had won, no one would have complained. Well, mostly no one!

I think Buddy wants to be a team player, but doesn't know how. He has a scorers mentality that overrides everything, and when he tries to be unselfish, that's when he makes mistakes. He'll get the ball in the corner, and he'll be wide open. Perfect right? But instead of shooting, he puts the ball on the floor and drives the baseline toward the basket. (passing up the wide open corner shot) As he nears the basket he tries to make a bounce pass to Bjelica on the other side of the basket. Of course the ball never reaches Beli.

This is Buddy really trying to be a team player, but not understanding exactly what that means. Being a team player doesn't mean being unselfish to the point of passing up the very shot your being paid the big bucks to make. It means taking that shot!!!! Your teammates worked to get you that shot, a shot that if it goes in, helps the team win. And winning is what it's all about. Buddy needs to watch how Lou Williams plays. Williams almost disappears when he enters the game, until he doesn't.

You tend not to notice him, until suddenly there he is, wide open in the corner with the ball, and your brain is silently screaming, NO!! Where Buddy needs to improve is not on becoming a better play maker, but a better defender. I watch him closely every game, and without a doubt, he's the worse defender on the team. Not because he's incapable, he's not, but because he simply doesn't try. Everyone points to his defense on Beal, and rightly so, because it exposed Buddy as someone who can be an excellent defender when he wants to be. He did a terrific job on Beal in that game.

Can anyone tell me another game where he defended someone like Beal that well? Doesn't leap out at you does it? Normally, if you focus only on Buddy on the defensive side of the ball, this is what you'll see. He'll pick up his man on the floor. He'll then start ball watching and slowly start drifting away from his man toward the basket and toward whomever has the ball. He'll drift as far as 20 feet at times. In the meantime, his man, realizing Buddy is no longer paying attention to him, leaves his current position and moves to an empty spot on the floor, usually a corner.

Sometimes Buddy gets burn't and sometimes he dodges the bullet and doesn't. But far too often, it's his man left wide open that's hitting the open three. Please don't take my word for this. Next game, if there is a next game, take some time to watch Buddy on the defensive side of the ball. Someone said that on most nights that Buddy is the 2nd best player on the floor. I guess it's how you define 2nd best.

Example: Buddy in his last 10 games. 16.6 ppg - 41.6% fgp - 45.6% 3pp - 3.6 rpg - 2.2 apg. Barnes in his last 10 game. 15.8 ppg - 49.5% fgp - 46.8% 3pp - 4.2 rpg - 3.2 apg. I think I can safely say that Barnes is the far superior defender, so you tell me, who is the better player in the last 10 games?

A couple of final questions. Why does Buddy like to dribble the ball into the corner, and then break the golden rule of picking up his dribble, which leaves him prone to being trapped. Why when Buddy gets the ball does he immediately establish his pivot foot, making himself easier to guard. Why when he gets the ball does he almost immediately put the ball on the floor establishing a dribble, when it appears to be without purpose. Most of the time it doesn't bite him in the butt, but, when it does, it seems to happen at the most inopportune times

I'm not posting this to pick on Buddy. I really like Buddy, and think he can be a very important player on the team, if he wants to be. If Buddy honestly wants to be a team player, then he has to start caring more about the team, than he does starting, or how many minutes he he gets. If Buddy is only interested in being a star and putting up big numbers, then I think he would fit right in on the T Wolves team.
 
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