brand to 76ers??

[Bricklayer]

Like I said before, there's plenty of criticism of Brand that is plenty legitimate. But being "small" is not one of them, in my opinion.

Isn't it? Can he actually defend his position? Has he ever been able to stop any of the top guys? Or might that be part of the reason why he can put up good numbers, and yet winning 30 games is a successful season for him?

Elton is a talented player, but his career has greatly resembled SAR's before we got him. Good numbers, absolutely zero results. There is always something suspicious about that. And as the smallest of the major PFs (maybe Boozer is the same size), that has to be open to suspicion. When you are a 20-10 PF making the playoffs 1 time in 9 years just raises eyebrows.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Isn't it? Can he actually defend his position? Has he ever been able to stop any of the top guys? Or might that be part of the reason why he can put up good numbers, and yet winning 30 games is a successful season for him?

Don't know, and the legwork would have to wait until I get home.

And damn, Supes... Brand's going to have to play Bosh and O'Neal at the same time? So, basically, you think that Dalembert is worthless, eh?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Brick, Brand's height is meaningless. You don't rebound, defend, and block shots with your head. His standing reach (9'2") matches the top 4's in the league, that's what matters.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick, Brand's height is meaningless. You don't rebound, defend, and block shots with your head. His standing reach (9'2") matches the top 4's in the league, that's what matters.

The freakish long arms have allowed Brand to compensate for being stubby. But they have not eliminated the issue. If you are 6'11" you walk around at 6'11". Without having to do anything at all. When you are 6'8" tall with knuckle dragging arms, those arms only come into play when you have them up and have them into position. Tim Duncan posting up Elton Brand can look right over the top of him. If Brand gets his arms up, he becomes an effective full sized defender. Until he does, he is shorter than SAR.

Brand has put up excellent, borderline All-Star numbers for a long time. But he has been by far and away the least accomplished of any of the major power players. Given the history of stubby power players has been to be fodder for the big boys, its highly suspicious to say the least. In the last 30 years only Barkley (a unique talent) and the freak defensive/rebounding specialists in Rodman and Big Ben have been as short as Brand and mattered in the league (and the obviously still just as roleplayers). And all of those guys added freakish leaping ability to the equation as well, and still (Big Ben included) has major questions raised about their man defense against power players.

 

[Vlade4GM]

The freakish long arms have allowed Brand to compensate for being stubby. But they have not eliminated the issue. If you are 6'11" you walk around at 6'11". Without having to do anything at all. When you are 6'8" tall with knuckle dragging arms, those arms only come into play when you have them up and have them into position. Tim Duncan posting up Elton Brand can look right over the top of him. If Brand gets his arms up, he becomes an effective full sized defender. Until he does, he is shorter than SAR.

Brand has put up excellent, borderline All-Star numbers for a long time. But he has been by far and away the least accomplished of any of the major power players. Given the history of stubby power players has been to be fodder for the big boys, its highly suspicious to say the least. In the last 30 years only Barkley (a unique talent) and the freak defensive/rebounding specialists in Rodman and Big Ben have been as short as Brand and mattered in the league (and the obviously still just as roleplayers). And all of those guys added freakish leaping ability to the equation as well, and still (Big Ben included) has major questions raised about their man defense against power players.

So you're saying that if his neck/head was an inch or two longer it would make all the difference in the world? Please. He's strong, he can hold his position, his hands are up when he's contesting shots and going up for rebounds, that's what matters.

 

[Bricklayer]

So you're saying that if his neck/head was an inch or two longer it would make all the difference in the world?

That's exactly what I am saying, and basically all of NBA history backs me up, and has always done so. People sporadically try to argue that point, generally whenever its convenient for a favored player or team, but history has never been kind to the short power player. In the end, who would a driving guard prefer to try to score over, Elton Brand or KG? And its Brand every time. Who has the best chance of getting up the uncontestable shot in the final seconds, Elton Brand or Sheed? And its Sheed every time.

 

[Vlade4GM]

That's exactly what I am saying, and basically all of NBA history backs me up, and has always done so. People sporadically try to argue that point, generally whenever its convenient for a favored player or team, but history has never been kind to the short power player. In the end, who would a driving guard prefer to try to score over, Elton Brand or KG? And its Brand every time. Who has the best chance of getting up the uncontestable shot in the final seconds, Elton Brand or Sheed? And its Sheed every time.

So you're trying to say the indimidation factor of seeing long head/necks is the difference? Not the reach of their arms? You can bring up heights, but Brand plays bigger than his height because of physical anamolies i.e. his long arms and his short neck/head (meaning higher shoulder height.)

 

[est.1999]

Vlade4gm I agree with you. Isn't this why they sometimes measure people at the shoulders because that shows how a persons frame is. Like if brand is 6'7" and chris bosh is 6'11"(hypothetically speaking) and their reaches are the same and body frames are pretty equal but bosh's neck and head equal to about 3-4 inches above brands overall height it wouldn't really matter??

 

[Superman]

Don't know, and the legwork would have to wait until I get home.

And damn, Supes... Brand's going to have to play Bosh and O'Neal at the same time? So, basically, you think that Dalembert is worthless, eh?

No, not at all. I'm saying that when they play the Raptors, he'll probably have to guard both of them during the course of the game. I'm sure he'll have a primary assignment, as will Dalembert, but he'll have to guard both of them separately at different points in the game. Four times a year.

And both of those guys, and 6'10" and 6'11", are tough assignments for 6'8" Elton Brand.

 

[Superman]

So you're trying to say the indimidation factor of seeing long head/necks is the difference? Not the reach of their arms? You can bring up heights, but Brand plays bigger than his height because of physical anamolies i.e. his long arms and his short neck/head (meaning higher shoulder height.)

This whole "plays bigger than his height" thing sounds good and all, but it's not true. What you're saying is that he hustles and does well for his size, despite his size. That's fine.

But it's easy to see that a player who consistently faces up against other players who are 2-5 inches taller than he is places him at a very real disadvantage, and it can't just be dismissed by saying "yeah, but he plays 7 feet tall, so it's a wash." No, it's not. He's still at a disadvantage.

And long arms or not, heart full of hustle or not, he's still one of the smallest power forwards in the NBA, certainly of the top ten. It's because of his long arms and his heart that he's done so well, and that counts for a whole lot (plenty of 7 footers in the past ten years that would trade careers with Brand without a moment's hesitation). But that doesn't erase the fact that the other nine of the top ten stand over him.