Bonzi To Houston (MERGED)
- Thread starter Fresno King
- Start date
For the person who said the Rockets look better than us on paper, I say that is why they dont play the games on paper. I mean going into last season our Kings looked like a top five team in the West "on paper" and what did that get us. I think Bonzi playing for Van Gundy a demanding coach like he had in Fratello in Memphis that this will blow up in the Rocket's face.
Since the pretext itself is faulty, what do u expect. Kings did not look good on paper last season and you can have different expectations of the team but if you take the average of all the pre season / beginning of season predictions and rankings thats about where they are supposed to be on paper.
Things did change for better after Ron came around and not before that. Rockets imo last year were a title contender or atleast i expected them to be in the WCF. They are my dark horse, I am not sure if stern wants to keep the big nation and its fans outside of the finals for too long
Things did change for better after Ron came around and not before that. Rockets imo last year were a title contender or atleast i expected them to be in the WCF. They are my dark horse, I am not sure if stern wants to keep the big nation and its fans outside of the finals for too long
We looked "good on paper" for all the wrong reasons -- in the pejorative sense of that term. "Good on paper" as in "only good in fantasy basketball" or "only good if you think you can just add up stats". (I however, thought we would do better until the playoffs, when I expected us to get badly exposed).
In any case the Rockets look "good on paper" for all the RIGHT reasons. Not because they are a fantasy bballers dream, not because they "have the most talent", whatever that means. But because they complement each other. Consider this:
Shaq = Yao
Horry = Battier
Fox = Bonzi
Kobe = TMac
Fisher = Alston
The balance and roles are very similar. Now you can say Shaq > Yao, Kobe > TMac etc. But that's why I think the Rockets are dangerous in the sense of making the playoffs with a decent seed, rather than as a title contender (probably...Yao averaged 27.6pts and 11rebs last March, if he does that all season watch out). But dangerous they are regardless.
Don Nelson has always been just as good as his teams -- when his teams were bad he was bad (he had two sub-20 win seasons with the Mavericks), and when his teams were good he was good. I have never really seen him as a miracle worker -- there was never a team where it seemed like he was really overachieving. Maybe he will inspire some confidence, but they're still the Warriors, and that roster has some serious problems.
Check out TMac's career stats if you want to see the decline -- from a 32 point scorer filling out the box score to a guy struggling to shoot 40%. It's not a one season thing there's a distinct downward slide. He's still young enough to turn it around, but now he has the psychological baggage of his back problems and it remains to be seen if he's going to regain his high flying ways rather than settling for bineg a jump shooter.
And the thing is, Yao isn't Shaq. He's not the inside presence and he's not the rebounder, even if he's putting things together. Battier is really going to give them what they need and who knows about Bonzi, but I don't know, when I look at that team I'm not really feeling scared.
Check out TMac's career stats if you want to see the decline -- from a 32 point scorer filling out the box score to a guy struggling to shoot 40%. It's not a one season thing there's a distinct downward slide. He's still young enough to turn it around, but now he has the psychological baggage of his back problems and it remains to be seen if he's going to regain his high flying ways rather than settling for bineg a jump shooter.
And the thing is, Yao isn't Shaq. He's not the inside presence and he's not the rebounder, even if he's putting things together. Battier is really going to give them what they need and who knows about Bonzi, but I don't know, when I look at that team I'm not really feeling scared.
I disagree with most of what u had to say about t-mac. When he struggled to shoot over 40% was the 2 years he was injured the most 03-04 and the 05-06 season. His FG percentage went up in the 04-05 season but went down the following season when he was injured. Bascily the only time his FG numbers really took a hit or he had an off year was when he was not healthy.
And i doubt that T-mac will ever avg 32 points per game when he has a center like Yao Ming playing next to him, 24-28 is what i see. But T-mac still manages to fill the box score, even when he was injured he still gets near his 25 plus points, 6 rebs, 5 ast, and 1.3 steal.
And if he is healthy, I don't expect to see the same T-mac we saw last year this year. The T-mac we saw last year was one to shy away from contract and take the jumper due to his back. If T-mac is truely healthy and past his psycological problems like he says, i expect to see a more aggrive T-mac, the old t-mac.
And T-mac is argurbly a top 5 player when healthy. The rockets only go as far as T-mac and Yao take team.
And i doubt that T-mac will ever avg 32 points per game when he has a center like Yao Ming playing next to him, 24-28 is what i see. But T-mac still manages to fill the box score, even when he was injured he still gets near his 25 plus points, 6 rebs, 5 ast, and 1.3 steal.
And if he is healthy, I don't expect to see the same T-mac we saw last year this year. The T-mac we saw last year was one to shy away from contract and take the jumper due to his back. If T-mac is truely healthy and past his psycological problems like he says, i expect to see a more aggrive T-mac, the old t-mac.
And T-mac is argurbly a top 5 player when healthy. The rockets only go as far as T-mac and Yao take team.
I find it interesting that Battier is the one guy not on board with this move. Guess he is the only former teammate of Bonzi's, and Battier being a team-first guy, he probably didn't like Bonzi clashing with Coach Fratello. It also may relate to the fact that Battier doesn't particularly enjoy getting beat up by the PFs of the NBA night in and night out, and Bonzi's presence makes that scenario ever more likely, as a lineup with both Battier and Bonzi on the floor will probably be more effective than a lineup with Battier and Howard/whatever other PF Houston trots out on the floor.
Shame to see things end this way for the Bonzi era in Sacto. Regardless of fault, Bonzi had a great springboard from the prior to postseason to build something here in Sacto with Artest and the others. Kevin Martin, your time is now.
Shame to see things end this way for the Bonzi era in Sacto. Regardless of fault, Bonzi had a great springboard from the prior to postseason to build something here in Sacto with Artest and the others. Kevin Martin, your time is now.
I didn't mean to suggest that it's a skill thing, I think it's both the injuries and the psychological effect the injuries have had on him. When he was a 32 ppg scorer he was both a driver and a shooter. He'd take the ball to the rim fearlessly, which would set up his jump shot because people would sag away from him to take away his drives. Even when he has been healthy in the past few seasons it seems like he's afraid of putting his body on the line and crashing to the hoop (probably because those injuries are in the back of his mind), hence the declines in his shooting percentage and scoring average, which are pretty stark:
02-03: 32.1 ppg, .457%, .386 3P%
03-04: 28.0 ppg, .417%, .339 3P%
04-05: 25.7 ppg, .431%, .326 3P%
05-06: 24.4 ppg, .406%, .312 3P%
He's only 27 and so he still has plenty of good years left, but it remains to be seen if he can truly regain his form.
02-03: 32.1 ppg, .457%, .386 3P%
03-04: 28.0 ppg, .417%, .339 3P%
04-05: 25.7 ppg, .431%, .326 3P%
05-06: 24.4 ppg, .406%, .312 3P%
He's only 27 and so he still has plenty of good years left, but it remains to be seen if he can truly regain his form.
Think there is more to it than just that though.
In 03-04 he basically quit caring in Orlando. It was ugly and raised major questons about whether his heart was in the game. I remember actually having a discussion about it on this board where a former poster (pompous pain in the *** I might add) insisted we should go try to get him before Houston did, and I was hesitant because Peja fit the offense and TMac was looking like a prima donna (the pain in the *** turned out to be right I might add).
And then, injuries aside, in 04-05 and 05-06 he was of course being coached by perhaps the worst offensive coach in the NBA. There will be none of that easy shot silliness on JVGs watch! Everything has to be a grind. Which is not to say the injuries (specifically the back) have not been a struggle, but it is to say that any trends because of them have been exaggerated by circumstance. If he'd been playing for Mike D'Antoni the last few years there wouldn't be nearly the drop off.
In 03-04 he basically quit caring in Orlando. It was ugly and raised major questons about whether his heart was in the game. I remember actually having a discussion about it on this board where a former poster (pompous pain in the *** I might add) insisted we should go try to get him before Houston did, and I was hesitant because Peja fit the offense and TMac was looking like a prima donna (the pain in the *** turned out to be right I might add).
And then, injuries aside, in 04-05 and 05-06 he was of course being coached by perhaps the worst offensive coach in the NBA. There will be none of that easy shot silliness on JVGs watch! Everything has to be a grind. Which is not to say the injuries (specifically the back) have not been a struggle, but it is to say that any trends because of them have been exaggerated by circumstance. If he'd been playing for Mike D'Antoni the last few years there wouldn't be nearly the drop off.
With the King's lineup I think it may be better that they let Bonzi go. If he was still at the 2 then the King's only have one 3 pt shooter starting in Bibby. If I was playing against the Kings I would just play zone defense all day.
Also, I don't think people remember the 30 games that Bonzi missed last year. He has missed 7, 10, 23, 30 games over the past 4 years. Anyone see a trend there?
Also, I don't think people remember the 30 games that Bonzi missed last year. He has missed 7, 10, 23, 30 games over the past 4 years. Anyone see a trend there?
Houston Chronicle - As much as the Rockets' roster is different, some things have not changed. The newest player, Bonzi Wells, has continued the team's recent run of injury issues.
Wells has some lingering pain from last season's torn groin muscle and an unrelated lymph node infection that is being treated with antibiotics. Neither is considered a serious condition.
"I tore my groin last year," Wells said. "They're just being cautious to make sure I don't tear it. I want to play a whole season. They're just being cautious, making sure it's totally strong before I get out on the court.
"I could practice today. They're real cautious right now. The injury bug has been real tough for this team the past couple years, so they're just going to make sure it's 100 percent before I get back on the court. It's feeling better."
Wells has some lingering pain from last season's torn groin muscle and an unrelated lymph node infection that is being treated with antibiotics. Neither is considered a serious condition.
"I tore my groin last year," Wells said. "They're just being cautious to make sure I don't tear it. I want to play a whole season. They're just being cautious, making sure it's totally strong before I get out on the court.
"I could practice today. They're real cautious right now. The injury bug has been real tough for this team the past couple years, so they're just going to make sure it's 100 percent before I get back on the court. It's feeling better."
i don't remember too many pompous pain in the asses (well, besides you, of course, ) (how in the world did this pass the filter? leaving it as it is just to warn others), but if you are referring to "mr.spock", he was also right about the dirk vs webber issue. but he was not right about hedo being a journeyman (the two major discussions i remember involving him, besides the political foxhole debates).
) (how in the world did this pass the filter? leaving it as it is just to warn others), but if you are referring to "mr.spock", he was also right about the dirk vs webber issue. but he was not right about hedo being a journeyman (the two major discussions i remember involving him, besides the political foxhole debates).
Okay, that's really bizarre. Am I the only one who remembers the playoffs? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bonzi play with nary a mention of the former groin injury? And now, after a summer of nothing more strenuous than screaming at his former agent, he's talking about still rehabbing from the groin injury that happened AND HEALED before the playoffs?
I agree with Warhawk. Curiouser and curiouser...
but didn't Bonzi play with nary a mention of the former groin injury? And now, after a summer of nothing more strenuous than screaming at his former agent, he's talking about still rehabbing from the groin injury that happened AND HEALED before the playoffs?I agree with Warhawk. Curiouser and curiouser...
Okay, that's really bizarre. Am I the only one who remembers the playoffs? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bonzi play with nary a mention of the former groin injury? And now, after a summer of nothing more strenuous than screaming at his former agent, he's talking about still rehabbing from the groin injury that happened AND HEALED before the playoffs?
I agree with Warhawk. Curiouser and curiouser...
but didn't Bonzi play with nary a mention of the former groin injury? And now, after a summer of nothing more strenuous than screaming at his former agent, he's talking about still rehabbing from the groin injury that happened AND HEALED before the playoffs?I agree with Warhawk. Curiouser and curiouser...
hmmmm...maybe the Kings knew there wer some questions and that was the cause for some of the rumored "unacceptable" conditions in the Kings offer? (Unacceptable to said former agent) Maybe there were some conditions tying pay to number of games able to play or something similar.
As to Bonzi being bloated, wasn't one of the rumored conditions supposedly related to Bonzi keeping his weight down and showing up to training camp in shape?
As to Bonzi being bloated, wasn't one of the rumored conditions supposedly related to Bonzi keeping his weight down and showing up to training camp in shape?