SLAB
Hall of Famer
Sup Vlade.
Blow It Up
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
Sup Vlade.
I'd like to say this would never happen, but this franchise has proven otherwise the last 15 years.
Something like this would break me though. I'd be out, Bricklayer style.
You guys gotta stop smoking the gallows humor. It's too strong.
gunks
Hall of Famer
That’s all this franchise gives us to smoke!
But I get where you’re coming from… hopefully Monte gives us a little something to get excited before the trade deadline. I’m willing to pivot into optimism at a moments notice! Otherwise I wouldn’t still be here.
chief bromden
Starter
This is the least interested I've been in this team since the year they tanked for Tyreke. Can we start by trading Barnes? That dude has been so annoying to watch lately.
fansinceday1
Starter
The only way I might have a scintilla of interest in MAYBE following what this team is doing would be if Vivek came out and stated that he has learned his lesson, he will be taking a step away from the limelight and let the basketball people handle basketball business. Viveks minions will either be moving to the business side of the business with him or they will be fired. No one will be allowed to undermine the GM, even if its just the perception of. The GM and coach are fired, along with the entire staff. No one from this current kings staff will be retained. They bring in a qualified GM who will be allowed to bring in HIS coach. If the only way you can get a top shelf GM is to offer a share of the team, do it. The A's kept one of the best GM's in the business by giving him a percentage of the team. It can be done. Then, they firesale the entire current squad with the exception of maybe halliburton and mitchell. If they went too, I might not complain because maybe they have already been contaminated by what has ailed this franchise for the past 15 years. The stink of what is going on now has to be stripped away completely if this franchise is ever to be taken seriously.
Also, the one constant throughout all of this trash, matina, has to go. Doesn't matter what she does, she has too much sway over Vivek. Doesn't matter what she does, the stain of this loser franchise is strong with her and that element has to be banished out of sacramento. Just the perception alone that we are washing our hands of everything that has made this franchise one of the worst in all of sports will do wonders to how this franchise is perceived here in sac and around the league. A top to bottom scrubbing. Totally clean slate with the right people calling the shots.
The good teams do whats needed even if it is unpopular. Time to emulate those well run franchises.
Dire times call for dire actions. This franchise is in serious danger of becoming irrelevant in a one team town! My mom who has been a fan since the day they the NBA announced they were coming doesn't even listen to them on the radio anymore. Something you can do for free. My uncle who had season tickets for well over 25 years, no longer has his tickets. Doesn't even follow them anymore. His group of season ticket friends that surrounded him at the old arco, no one follows the team anymore. My 16 year old daughter, her friends all follow the warriors. "Its not cool to follow a loser team." They aren't even lovable losers like what the Chicago Cubs use to be. This team is boring. They are unlikeable. They come off as lazy.
Im not really a kings fanatic anymore but i was born here in sacramento. I wouldn't like to see the team i once loved become a total non issue. Leases have been broken before by teams in every sport. I would hate for this team to become so irrelevant that they actually move. And by the time that happens, there might not be enough people who really care. The ineptitude is so off the charts that it almost seems like its being done on purpose. The movie major league comes to mind. "If we could run the attendance down to "this" we can move the team to miami".
Also, the one constant throughout all of this trash, matina, has to go. Doesn't matter what she does, she has too much sway over Vivek. Doesn't matter what she does, the stain of this loser franchise is strong with her and that element has to be banished out of sacramento. Just the perception alone that we are washing our hands of everything that has made this franchise one of the worst in all of sports will do wonders to how this franchise is perceived here in sac and around the league. A top to bottom scrubbing. Totally clean slate with the right people calling the shots.
The good teams do whats needed even if it is unpopular. Time to emulate those well run franchises.
Dire times call for dire actions. This franchise is in serious danger of becoming irrelevant in a one team town! My mom who has been a fan since the day they the NBA announced they were coming doesn't even listen to them on the radio anymore. Something you can do for free. My uncle who had season tickets for well over 25 years, no longer has his tickets. Doesn't even follow them anymore. His group of season ticket friends that surrounded him at the old arco, no one follows the team anymore. My 16 year old daughter, her friends all follow the warriors. "Its not cool to follow a loser team." They aren't even lovable losers like what the Chicago Cubs use to be. This team is boring. They are unlikeable. They come off as lazy.
Im not really a kings fanatic anymore but i was born here in sacramento. I wouldn't like to see the team i once loved become a total non issue. Leases have been broken before by teams in every sport. I would hate for this team to become so irrelevant that they actually move. And by the time that happens, there might not be enough people who really care. The ineptitude is so off the charts that it almost seems like its being done on purpose. The movie major league comes to mind. "If we could run the attendance down to "this" we can move the team to miami".
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True enough. At this point I'm just drifting along as a fan until one of two things happen. Either some true positive changes happen to get me reengaged or some disastrous move is made that makes me finally say I'm done. I really hope it's the former.
EIM86
Starter
yup if fans like us leave this team Vivek will prolly finally notice. I’m waiting until the trade deadline to see what kind of trades goes down. If it’s bad I’m cancelling my season tickets and just gonna wait to bandwagon if this team ever gets good again
sactowndog
All-Star
The problem isn’t Vivek taking control. The problem is he can’t hire a competent GM:
Pete D: bad in every measure possible
Vlade: historically bad talent evaluator in draft
Monte: no understanding of fit or poker
Monte’s bad understanding of fit has devalued his players so that a Fox no longer gets you a Simmons straight up because players are sub-optimized.
It’s the GM hiring decision Vivek needs to move away from or just leave the position all-together.
Imo thats a huge understatement. Vlade was one of the worst GM's ever. He made one of the worst trades in the Nba history, was bad at drafting and made one of the worst draft mistakes in Nba history by drafting Bagley over Luka or any of the other good prospects. His strategy overall was horrible, he used huge amount of cap space for litterally nothing. A lot of money for veterans that didnt do anything else than making us a bit too good for drafting a star while being so far from being actually a competitive team. His GM work was the worst thing that happened to this franchise since him tapping that rebound
sactowndog
All-Star
I think Pete was worse but they are all degrees of an F. I liked both Vlade trades to trade down but the rest is accurate.
By the way, pretty impressive more threads on the front page are locked than not. Never seen that on a board before.
Scrolling through through that Vlade thread as it was on the first page I hope people would read through that and reflect. This strategy was bad when Vlade was doing it (reaching for playoffs with talent lacking team with zero chance to be actually competitive) and it still damages this franchises as much today.
I honestly dont get it. How many years this has to go on? We are the first example of a garbage franchise for god sake. What would it take to understand the simple thing that this team isnt a possible role player free agent signing away from competing. Or even Fox - Simmons swap. There just isnt enough top talent. The role players are good enough role players and they are expensive. Fox or Hali isnt good enough to lead this team to actually competing and thats just a fact. We need top level talent and only way for us to get it is through draft. I cant understand how its possible that people still keep arguing that we should play all the vets and do everything we can just to get that 8-11th draft spot. Thats garbage, thats horrible strategy. Its been demonstrated for so many years now and it does so much harm to this franchise.
We dont even need to trade Fox or Hali. Trade the vets if you get decent offers. Play young guys more, dont stress about the W amount and let yourself be in that top 5 pre lottery. Its actually pretty easy now and if we **** it up again and have to pick in our usuall spot, im not sure if I have the strength anymore as this is probably the 5th year im begging for a real rebuild
With three exceptions, those are all old game threads, which are locked once the next game starts by design. This sort of thing is actually common in-season when there is not much else to discuss.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
We've heard enough to know this is an OWNER directive right now. Make the playoffs/play in. It is what it is and was what it was. Stupid? Perhaps. Well, more stupid when Vlade had top 5 picks to polish up considering it killed the early value of both Bagley and Fox but now Vivek has positioned his team comfortably between a rock and a hard place. Not the time to have a gun shy noob GM with little aggression nor creativity.
kb02
All-Star
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...Include-Tobias-Harris-In-Trade-Of-Ben-Simmons
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjbze4dj
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3tjtjjg
I’ve been against trading for Harris, but am open to it, if it lowers the price. Fox + Buddy + Harrison/Bagley for Simmons + Harris. Filler on both sides and/or draft picks to even it out.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjbze4dj
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3tjtjjg
I’ve been against trading for Harris, but am open to it, if it lowers the price. Fox + Buddy + Harrison/Bagley for Simmons + Harris. Filler on both sides and/or draft picks to even it out.
Harris and Simmons for Fox, Hield, Bagley, and Thompson works financially and helps open cap room. More than likely this requires a third team, especially if Philly's goal is to offload enough salary to make a run at Harden or another FA this summer.
Barnes could be moved in a separate trade. Don't know if Indy would bite, but Harrison and our FRP for Turner would be nice.
C Turner
PF Harris
SF Simmons
SG Haliburton
PG Mitchell
is a pretty solid starting 5. Flip Holmes for some depth (to Charlotte maybe?) and you've got something to work with.
I don't like the idea of absorbing Harris' contract either, but it's not like he can't play. He's still only 29 and putting up 18.6 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 3.9 apg. He's been dinged up this year, missed some time due to COVID and his 3P% has dipped just below 30% this year, but even with a bit of a down year, he's a slight upgrade from Barnes, albeit one that costs almost $16M more and has a contract that runs for one more season.
It doesn't have to be a trade for Simmons, but at this point SOMETHING has to happen for me to even bother following this team anymore.
Barnes could be moved in a separate trade. Don't know if Indy would bite, but Harrison and our FRP for Turner would be nice.
C Turner
PF Harris
SF Simmons
SG Haliburton
PG Mitchell
is a pretty solid starting 5. Flip Holmes for some depth (to Charlotte maybe?) and you've got something to work with.
I don't like the idea of absorbing Harris' contract either, but it's not like he can't play. He's still only 29 and putting up 18.6 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 3.9 apg. He's been dinged up this year, missed some time due to COVID and his 3P% has dipped just below 30% this year, but even with a bit of a down year, he's a slight upgrade from Barnes, albeit one that costs almost $16M more and has a contract that runs for one more season.
It doesn't have to be a trade for Simmons, but at this point SOMETHING has to happen for me to even bother following this team anymore.
No thanks.
twslam07
All-Star
The other alternative is to trade for Harris & Simmons while keeping Barnes. It would allow you to go with Barnes at SF, Harris at PF, and Simmons at C to close out games.
Maybe package this deal with the deals I proposed in this thread: https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/shooting-for-playoffs-with-an-eye-on-the-future.83207/
The only difference would be that we send Fox, Bagley, Thompson, & 2022 SAC 1st to PHI for Simmons & Harris. If I combine the trades together, it should make it legal from a $ perspective. That would leave us with the following roster:
PG - Simmons / Mitchell / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Williams / Woodard
PF - Harris / Washington / Metu
C - Horford / Jones / Len
- Simmons would have a plethora of shooting on the floor with him (Haliburton, Barnes, Harris, Horford, Mitchell, Davis, Williams, & Washington) and we'd be able to play a 5 out system for all 48 minutes
- Horford allows us to "save" Simmons from playing C full time and breaking down over time.
- Defense would be solid with Mitchell, Simmons, & Horford leading the charge but guys like Haliburton, Barnes, Davis, Williams, & Washington are no slouches on that end of the floor either
- We'd have a pretty nasty death lineup in Haliburton-Mitchell/Williams/Washington-Barnes-Harris-Simmons that has numerous scorers, playmakers, & defenders with a lot of athleticism, length, & versatility.
I think this is all a bit moot though. If PHI wants to clear Harris to make a run at Harden, Fox doesn't make a lot of sense for them. Especially when they would theoretically have both Fox & Maxey at both guard spots. I don't think we're a prime candidate unless a 3rd team is involved, Philly decides to keep Harris, or we offer up Haliburton instead of Fox.
EDIT: Probably worth calling out that this would bring us to a payroll of $150 mil putting us well above the luxury tax ($136 mil). Not sure if Vivek would be okay with that.
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steelevt
All-Star
I think we’re giving up too much personally.
Also I keep reading we need to trade fox and hand the reigns over to ty, then see trades with a new lineup with ty still at sg and davion at pg. this makes no sense. At least fox and ty can switch roles and guard the other teams sg, I still haven’t seen davions ability to guard 1-3.
Also I keep reading we need to trade fox and hand the reigns over to ty, then see trades with a new lineup with ty still at sg and davion at pg. this makes no sense. At least fox and ty can switch roles and guard the other teams sg, I still haven’t seen davions ability to guard 1-3.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
I've been dreaming of that 76ers trade since the offseason. Everything about it would make me so happy. It would allow Haliburton to take over as the full time primary ball handler. It would allow me never to have to see Buddy Hield again. It would also give us a potentially massive future trade chip if Simmons can repair even part of his image, which I think playing off ball would allow him to do. Also, I have to think that the passing and defense would improve.
Lastly, unless we go full on tank Mitchell absolutely shouldn't see the starting lineup. He's been nice here and there off the bench, but his offense is still a massive liability. The guy is shooting like 30% over the last 7 games.
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah I would decline that deal from a Kings perspective.
Either need to swap Barnes with Bagley/Thompson or remove the 1st round pick.
A little too much? I find that absolutely insane.
Morey can ask whatever he wants. I can list my 16-year-old car for $100K, that doesn't make that the value of the car. Until proven otherwise, the value of Ben Simmons on the open market would appear to be about equal to Fox. But we're asked to take on a huge contract of a player whose efficiency has cratered this year (now shooting under .300 from three) AND to give up two of our best three-point threats (including one of our best all-around players) AND a first rounder to do that? In the modern NBA? We would literally have one player (Hali) who can shoot above .300 from outside the arc on the team. In the modern NBA. That's garbage. And we wouldn't even have a first-round pick this year to try to address that? This trade is Russian Roulette with a pistol instead of a revolver.
That Tobias Harris contract is filthy. Two years remaining at 38.4 and 41.9 million. Yikes. It's nice how that trade solves all of Philly's problems at once but we'd be inheriting a massive salary cap problem and the pressure to win now or else would only intensify. I'm not even convinced we should offer them Fox for Simmons at this point. Buddy and Harrison gets them two high percentage shooters who are ready right now to compliment Embiid and Maxey. We get younger and hopefully better on defense. It's a win-win unless you're convinced Simmons is worth an All-Star. You'd think if those kinds of trades were available, Morey would have made one already.
itzcoatl
Bench
Agreed. I would offer Barnes, Buddy, Bagley and expiring in jones and Thompson for Simmons and Harris.
This gets them shooters and also closer to getting room for Harden.
Jkbiker
Starter
Fox,Buddy,Marvin,TT for Simmons,Harris,Thybulle Financially within 226k
If we have to take on Harris Salary, then I would want Thybulle and no Pick to Philly
Then we could use 2022 FRP and Barnes to get Turner:
C Turner,Holmes,Len Jones,Queta
PF Harris,Metu,Woodard
SF Simmons,Harkless,King
SG Haliburton, Thybulle
PG Mitchell,TD,Ramsey
Better on Defense, TT too small, Buddy and Marvin dont want to be here
philly gets cap relief, Fox as trade chip
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Jkbiker
Starter
Buddy,Barnes and cap space? Philly would want 3-4 FRPs
Then I guess we're not getting Ben Simmons? There are other players in the NBA that could help us. Either Philly compromises or they wait until they find a sucker. It could be awhile.
itzcoatl
Bench
i feel like Harris is negative value. I would consider adding in Davion and maybe a heavily protected first at some later point that turns into a second if it doesn’t convey.
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