Blow It Up

Capt. Factorial

Trade Rumors = 0.00 Bits Of Information
Staff member
Someone posted this on the RealGM Boston trade board:

View attachment 10815
Here's the deal. I can't find this podcast. Not just the De'Aaron Fox episode, I can't find *any* instance of an NN Podcast that talks about sports except the Niners Nation podcast, and I can't find any evidence Fox has been on that.

So I'm removing this post. If anybody provides primary evidence of the quote, I will reinstate it. (I'm not holding my breath)
 
Simmons not being able to play right away and/or having to shake off rust isn't really an issue. I know Vivek wants to win now, but with players dropping left and right due to positive COVID tests, Holmes being in and out of the lineup, potentially a deal for Hield and/or Bagley, this team is not headed for the playoffs with or without a shakeup.

So if the team traded for Simmons, the fact that he'd likely miss a few games and then have to round into shape isn't really a big deal. It adds ping-pong balls and gives him all the time needed to acclimate. If the Kings were to play well at the very end of the season (generally fool's gold) it would at least give hope moving forward which is what Kings fans need and currently don't have.

I previously said that I'd keep Hield if Simmons was dealt for but I think that really depends on what his mindset/attitude is. Is he a malcontent/unhappy and desperately wants out? If so, deal him if there's something of value to be gotten. Trade Bagley if there's any interest. Deal Barnes to a team that needs a 3/4 wing for their playoff push (Atlanta maybe?) and even deal Holmes if the right deal comes along.

I don't think the Kings have the pieces to get Turner without giving up FRPs but Indiana has lost 6 straight and needs a shakeup. Plus Turner is a FA after next season, making this the time to move him. If the Pacers were willing to take say Barnes & Holmes for Turner and Warren and the Sixers would take Fox for Simmons you'd have:

C Turner/Thompson/Len/Jones/Queta (why so many bigs Monte?)
PF Metu or Harkless/Woodard
SF Simmons/Warren/King
SG Haliburton/Davis/Ramsey
PG Mitchell

Plus whatever you could get for Buddy and/or Bagley - ideally a backup PG and a wing who shoots well. That team needs shooting and roster balance, but would likely be drafting in the 6-10 range where guys like Keegan Murray, Kendall Brown, Nikola Jovic, or even Patrick Baldwin if he starts putting it together.

Turner
Simmons
Rookie SF/PF
Haliburton
Mitchell

Is a pretty solid starting five with solid defense and enough shooting to cover for Simmons. You can stagger your best playmakers in Haliburton and Simmons to maximize both.

Probably a pipe dream on both trades honestly, but I'd greatly prefer that team to what we have now plus another mid-to-late lottery pick.
I don't think that's enough value for Turner, and I don't think they'd be interested in Holmes as they'd want to play Sabonis as a full time C after Turner is moved and find a PF who can space the floor and defend.

I think you could arrive at a similar team with these moves:

TRADE #1
PHI Gets: Bradley Beal
PHI Gives: Ben Simmons
Why for PHI? Get a star talent in exchange for Simmons who fits perfectly next to Maxey, Green, Harris, & Embiid in an effort to bring a championship to Philly.

PG - Maxey / Curry / Springer
SG - Beal / Milton / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Harris / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey


SAC Gets: Ben Simmons, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
Why for SAC? Balance the roster by swapping Simmons for Fox while improving the defense. Bertans would also be an interesting piece to complement Simmons (despite him being a negative value contract).

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Holmes / Jones / Len

WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
Why for WAS? Beal chose to not sign an extension with the Wizards and could walk at the end of this year. The Wizards get a 24 year old PG locked in for 4 more seasons while also moving off of Bertans contract to help with a rebuild/retool.

PG - Fox / Holiday
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Kuzma / Avdija / Kispert
PF - Bagley / Hachimura / Gill / Todd
C - Gafford / Harrell / Thompson / Bryant




Trade #2
IND Gets: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
IND Gives: Myles Turner
Why for IND? Barnes gives them a SF/PF to better space the floor next to Sabonis while also picking up a 1st round pick to further add to their core.

PG - Brogdon / McConnell / Sykes
SG - LeVert / Lamb
SF - Duarte / Holiday / Martin
PF - Barnes / Craig / Brissett / Warren
C - Sabonis / Bitadze / Jackson


SAC Gets: Myles Turner
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
Why for SAC? Land a true rim protector to play alongside Simmons. He also is a solid shooter from 3 allowing the Kings to give Simmons optimal space to operate.

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Holmes / Jones / Len


Trade #3
CHA Gets: Richaun Holmes
CHA Gives: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
Why for CHA? With Hayward, Bridges, & Oubre on the roster, Washington is expendable. They move him while substantially upgrading their starting C.

PG - Ball / Bouknight
SG - Rozier / Martin
SF - Hayward / Oubre
PF - Bridges / McDaniels / Thor
C - Holmes / Plumlee / Richards / Jones / Carey

SAC Gets: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
SAC Gives: Richaun Holmes
Why for SAC? With Turner on the roster, they move Holmes for a SF/PF who can space the floor & defend next to Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Smith / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Washington / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Jones / Len




Mitchell-Haliburton-Washington-Simmons-Turner would be a very strong defensive team. In fact, Mitchell, Simmons, & Turner would all likely be in the conversations for the All-Defensive year after year. On top of being an excellent defensive team, Simmons is surrounded with shooters (Mitchell, Haliburton, Washington, Turner, Davis, Hield, & Bertans) to hopefully unlock his full potential. Lastly, that starting 5 is young and still has time to get better. Mitchell is 23, Haliburton is 21, Washington is 23, Simmons is 25, and Turner is 25.

Long story short, I think this improves our chances of making the playoffs this year, dramatically improves the defense, and still gives us a relatively young core to improve/grow over time.
 
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I don't think that's enough value for Turner, and I don't think they'd be interested in Holmes as they'd want to play Sabonis as a full time C after Turner is moved and find a PF who can space the floor and defend.

I think you could arrive at a similar team with these moves:

TRADE #1
PHI Gets: Bradley Beal
PHI Gives: Ben Simmons
Why for PHI? Get a star talent in exchange for Simmons who fits perfectly next to Maxey, Green, Harris, & Embiid in an effort to bring a championship to Philly.

PG - Maxey / Curry / Springer
SG - Beal / Milton / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Harris / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey


SAC Gets: Ben Simmons, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
Why for SAC? Balance the roster by swapping Simmons for Fox while improving the defense. Bertans would also be an interesting piece to complement Simmons (despite him being a negative value contract).

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Holmes / Jones / Len

WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
Why for WAS? Beal chose to not sign an extension with the Wizards and could walk at the end of this year. The Wizards get a 24 year old PG locked in for 4 more seasons while also moving off of Bertans contract to help with a rebuild/retool.

PG - Fox / Holiday
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Kuzma / Avdija / Kispert
PF - Bagley / Hachimura / Gill / Todd
C - Gafford / Harrell / Thompson / Bryant




Trade #2
IND Gets: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
IND Gives: Myles Turner
Why for IND? Barnes gives them a SF/PF to better space the floor next to Sabonis while also picking up a 1st round pick to further add to their core.

PG - Brogdon / McConnell / Sykes
SG - LeVert / Lamb
SF - Duarte / Holiday / Martin
PF - Barnes / Craig / Brissett / Warren
C - Sabonis / Bitadze / Jackson


SAC Gets: Myles Turner
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
Why for SAC? Land a true rim protector to play alongside Simmons. He also is a solid shooter from 3 allowing the Kings to give Simmons optimal space to operate.

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Holmes / Jones / Len


Trade #3
CHA Gets: Richaun Holmes
CHA Gives: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
Why for CHA? With Hayward, Bridges, & Oubre on the roster, Washington is expendable. They move him while substantially upgrading their starting C.

PG - Ball / Bouknight
SG - Rozier / Martin
SF - Hayward / Oubre
PF - Bridges / McDaniels / Thor
C - Holmes / Plumlee / Richards / Jones / Carey

SAC Gets: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
SAC Gives: Richaun Holmes
Why for SAC? With Turner on the roster, they move Holmes for a SF/PF who can space the floor & defend next to Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Smith / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Washington / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Jones / Len




Mitchell-Haliburton-Washington-Simmons-Turner would be a very strong defensive team. In fact, Mitchell, Simmons, & Turner would all likely be in the conversations for the All-Defensive year after year. On top of being an excellent defensive team, Simmons is surrounded with shooters (Mitchell, Haliburton, Washington, Turner, Davis, Hield, & Bertans) to hopefully unlock his full potential. Lastly, that starting 5 is young and still has time to get better. Mitchell is 23, Haliburton is 21, Washington is 23, Simmons is 25, and Turner is 25.

Long story short, I think this improves our chances of making the playoffs this year, dramatically improves the defense, and still gives us a relatively young core to improve/grow over time.
Washington says no. They’ll require a FRP from the Kings, at a minimum.
 
I don't think that's enough value for Turner, and I don't think they'd be interested in Holmes as they'd want to play Sabonis as a full time C after Turner is moved and find a PF who can space the floor and defend.

I think you could arrive at a similar team with these moves:

TRADE #1
PHI Gets: Bradley Beal
PHI Gives: Ben Simmons
Why for PHI? Get a star talent in exchange for Simmons who fits perfectly next to Maxey, Green, Harris, & Embiid in an effort to bring a championship to Philly.

PG - Maxey / Curry / Springer
SG - Beal / Milton / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Harris / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey


SAC Gets: Ben Simmons, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
Why for SAC? Balance the roster by swapping Simmons for Fox while improving the defense. Bertans would also be an interesting piece to complement Simmons (despite him being a negative value contract).

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Holmes / Jones / Len

WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Tristan Thompson
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, & Raul Neto
Why for WAS? Beal chose to not sign an extension with the Wizards and could walk at the end of this year. The Wizards get a 24 year old PG locked in for 4 more seasons while also moving off of Bertans contract to help with a rebuild/retool.

PG - Fox / Holiday
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Kuzma / Avdija / Kispert
PF - Bagley / Hachimura / Gill / Todd
C - Gafford / Harrell / Thompson / Bryant




Trade #2
IND Gets: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
IND Gives: Myles Turner
Why for IND? Barnes gives them a SF/PF to better space the floor next to Sabonis while also picking up a 1st round pick to further add to their core.

PG - Brogdon / McConnell / Sykes
SG - LeVert / Lamb
SF - Duarte / Holiday / Martin
PF - Barnes / Craig / Brissett / Warren
C - Sabonis / Bitadze / Jackson


SAC Gets: Myles Turner
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
Why for SAC? Land a true rim protector to play alongside Simmons. He also is a solid shooter from 3 allowing the Kings to give Simmons optimal space to operate.

PG - Mitchell / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Holmes / Jones / Len


Trade #3
CHA Gets: Richaun Holmes
CHA Gives: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
Why for CHA? With Hayward, Bridges, & Oubre on the roster, Washington is expendable. They move him while substantially upgrading their starting C.

PG - Ball / Bouknight
SG - Rozier / Martin
SF - Hayward / Oubre
PF - Bridges / McDaniels / Thor
C - Holmes / Plumlee / Richards / Jones / Carey

SAC Gets: Ish Smith & PJ Washington
SAC Gives: Richaun Holmes
Why for SAC? With Turner on the roster, they move Holmes for a SF/PF who can space the floor & defend next to Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Smith / Neto
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Washington / Hield / Harkless / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Bertans / Metu
C - Turner / Jones / Len




Mitchell-Haliburton-Washington-Simmons-Turner would be a very strong defensive team. In fact, Mitchell, Simmons, & Turner would all likely be in the conversations for the All-Defensive year after year. On top of being an excellent defensive team, Simmons is surrounded with shooters (Mitchell, Haliburton, Washington, Turner, Davis, Hield, & Bertans) to hopefully unlock his full potential. Lastly, that starting 5 is young and still has time to get better. Mitchell is 23, Haliburton is 21, Washington is 23, Simmons is 25, and Turner is 25.

Long story short, I think this improves our chances of making the playoffs this year, dramatically improves the defense, and still gives us a relatively young core to improve/grow over time.
I'd love this. I think if Washington was going to deal Beal they'd opt to just take Simmons straight up over Fox, but if they aren't sold on Ben and want the cap relief it's definitely plausible. I'm still not sure that's enough value for Turner, but I could see it. The CHA deal is good for both sides. Holmes would be a huge improvement as a rolling big to pair with Melo and Rozier and it gives the Kings another backup PG and another wing.

As much as Hield's shooting would be welcome with Simmons, at this point I'd probably rather see him moved if there's a decent deal out there for him.

But beyond that this would be a huge and welcome overhaul. The only thing that would make it better is the Kings keeping their FRP this year because they land a top 4 pick. When they are ready, Smith, Banchero, or Holmgren could all slide into this lineup at the 4 with Simmons defending the 3 but still being the primary playmaker. Holmgren is probably the furthest off just due to his frame, but Banchero looks tailor made for the NBA right now. And Smith would probably take some time (he's six months younger than Banchero and a year younger than Holmgren) but I think he's the best fit and possibly the best player of the three.
 
I'd love this. I think if Washington was going to deal Beal they'd opt to just take Simmons straight up over Fox, but if they aren't sold on Ben and want the cap relief it's definitely plausible. I'm still not sure that's enough value for Turner, but I could see it. The CHA deal is good for both sides. Holmes would be a huge improvement as a rolling big to pair with Melo and Rozier and it gives the Kings another backup PG and another wing.

As much as Hield's shooting would be welcome with Simmons, at this point I'd probably rather see him moved if there's a decent deal out there for him.

But beyond that this would be a huge and welcome overhaul. The only thing that would make it better is the Kings keeping their FRP this year because they land a top 4 pick. When they are ready, Smith, Banchero, or Holmgren could all slide into this lineup at the 4 with Simmons defending the 3 but still being the primary playmaker. Holmgren is probably the furthest off just due to his frame, but Banchero looks tailor made for the NBA right now. And Smith would probably take some time (he's six months younger than Banchero and a year younger than Holmgren) but I think he's the best fit and possibly the best player of the three.
The Turner deal would work only if the Kings trade Barnes first, get a FRP then send two firsts to the Pacers. Unprotected. The OP would say, well, the Pacers can flip him, but if I’m the Pacers, I make the Kings do that legwork.
 
This is a very obviously fake quote.

He would never call Simmons "tall Rondo", and was actively gunning for us to draft Bagley before the draft. He definitely didn't say this, not even worth discussing.
I don't remember Fox saying anything either way about who the Kings should draft.

That said, I agree that I don't see Fox saying this. It slams three players (one on his own roster) in a single quote and he's never bashed anybody. The closest I can think of is him getting upset when Amin Elhassan said Ja Morant was who De'aaron thought he was. Even then Fox made it about the Elhassan and not Morant. He doesn't slam other players.
 
The Turner deal would work only if the Kings trade Barnes first, get a FRP then send two firsts to the Pacers. Unprotected. The OP would say, well, the Pacers can flip him, but if I’m the Pacers, I make the Kings do that legwork.
Reports have indicated that the Pacers aren't looking for a hard rebuild so I don't agree with the notion that they'd want two 1st round picks.
 
Washington says no. They’ll require a FRP from the Kings, at a minimum.
Beal is expiring with a big risk of walking for nothing next year. On top of Fox, they are moving off of Bertan's contract for expirings (which is likely worth a 1st to dump him).
 
whats the gist of it? Can’t get into link
Was a "quote" from Fox saying kings have already had Rondo, and it didn't work out - so what would having tall rondo (Simmons) accomplish in place of fox?
Then saying we could've had Doncic but instead we have Bagley.

definitely a fake quote, and I think we can all understand this - so not sure why we can't discuss it even though we all know it wasn't true
 
Fox wasn’t actively gunning for the Kings to draft Bagley. That’s simply not true.
He was asked before the draft who he thought we should take, and said he didn't know much about Doncic, and thinks Marvin would be a great fit (something to that effect). That's a fact, it was a direct quote, although I'm paraphrasing from memory.

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of the term "gunning for Bagley" but it's clear he wanted us to take Bagley, and I would not at all be surprised if Vlade took that into account.

I'm not criticising Fox. I don't blame him for wanting Bagley and he was honest about simply not knowing enough about Doncic.



EDIT, found it:




This is why GMs should not take into account player opinions on draft prospects. Again, not a criticism of De'Aaron, I think he is becoming a scapegoat on this forum, not a fan of that at all.
 
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Beal is expiring with a big risk of walking for nothing next year. On top of Fox, they are moving off of Bertan's contract for expirings (which is likely worth a 1st to dump him).
There are two issues for Washington. Beal walking for nothing (not ideal) or actually SIGNING Beal to that mega max contract he would get. For a player that hasn't really produced a winner (outside of early days with Wall), do they really want to be burdened with that contract as Beal ages. Those super max contacts are terrible unless you're signing a player like Curry to an already great team that warrants a significant tax bill every year. Its the worst thing about the current NBA salary system. They sign Beal to that contract, and the clock starts ticking to when he's considered the next Westbrook or Wall albatross contract.
 
He was asked before the draft who he thought we should take, and said he didn't know much about Doncic, and thinks Marvin would be a great fit (something to that effect). That's a fact, it was a direct quote, although I'm paraphrasing from memory.

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of the term "gunning for Bagley" but it's clear he wanted us to take Bagley, and I would not at all be surprised if Vlade took that into account.

I'm not criticising Fox. I don't blame him for wanting Bagley and he was honest about simply not knowing enough about Doncic.



EDIT, found it:




This is why GMs should not take into account player opinions on draft prospects. Again, not a criticism of De'Aaron, I think he is becoming a scapegoat on this forum, not a fan of that at all.
I watched a couple minutes past where he mentioned Bagley, Ayton, Porter Jr and both Bridges and the funny thing was that he was skeptical about Doncic. Now clearly he hadn't watched him and was going off what he read (he mentions reading about critics of his game) but went on to say that not many European players taken high have become stars (generally true) but then he talks about how amazing Porzingis is.

Not criticizing De'Aaron by any means - NBA players aren't paid to be scouts - I just thought it was funny.
 
He was asked before the draft who he thought we should take, and said he didn't know much about Doncic, and thinks Marvin would be a great fit (something to that effect). That's a fact, it was a direct quote, although I'm paraphrasing from memory.

I'm not going to get into an argument over the semantics of the term "gunning for Bagley" but it's clear he wanted us to take Bagley, and I would not at all be surprised if Vlade took that into account.

I'm not criticising Fox. I don't blame him for wanting Bagley and he was honest about simply not knowing enough about Doncic.



EDIT, found it:




This is why GMs should not take into account player opinions on draft prospects. Again, not a criticism of De'Aaron, I think he is becoming a scapegoat on this forum, not a fan of that at all.
Clamoring = cheerleading for someone.
 
Sounds like Vivek is looking at improve the team NOW deals. No blowups. Kings still hovering in that 10th spot. If he can get a legit wing to help out playing small ball then there may be a shot they get into the play in and make some noise. Who knows. If that's his goal wonder what a Haliburton/Davion/pick package can net? Haliburton is starting to dip might want to look into it now.
is it better to make the play in to get Vivek to give up on improving the team over tanking hmmm
 
I want the world to burn. Do it. I’d actually watch out of morbid curiosity.
If it does go down we all know it would be a package for Hali.

Why for the Lakers: his shooting, playmaking and pass first style will make him a perfect fit with Bron and Co.

Why for the Kings: because Vivek is the kind of owner who’d think a Fox/Westbrook tandem would work due to “star power”*.


*Ok, obviously unfair to criticize Vivek for a totally hypothetical trade that’s clearly awful for us… but… he’s hurt me.
 
If it does go down we all know it would be a package for Hali.

Why for the Lakers: his shooting, playmaking and pass first style will make him a perfect fit with Bron and Co.

Why for the Kings: because Vivek is the kind of owner who’d think a Fox/Westbrook tandem would work due to “star power”*.


*Ok, obviously unfair to criticize Vivek for a totally hypothetical trade that’s clearly awful for us… but… he’s hurt me.
Not a realistic package. It's not "all in" enough.

It'll be Fox AND Hali, and two pick swaps and two unprotected picks.
 
If it does go down we all know it would be a package for Hali.

Why for the Lakers: his shooting, playmaking and pass first style will make him a perfect fit with Bron and Co.

Why for the Kings: because Vivek is the kind of owner who’d think a Fox/Westbrook tandem would work due to “star power”*.


*Ok, obviously unfair to criticize Vivek for a totally hypothetical trade that’s clearly awful for us… but… he’s hurt me.
you have every right to hate on the guy