Blow It Up

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, I used to be in favor of taking a swing at Simmons, but at some point, doesn’t it boil down to either:

1. he has a serious enough mental health issue going on that has kept him from suiting up for a contender all season. I’m treading lightly given the stigma that has historically been associated with mental illnesses, but as the Kings would be wary of trading for a player that has been out all season with an undisclosed knee or foot issue, you have to acknowledge there is some issue here that you would need to have the patience and resources to help him work with. Maybe you still trade for him being comfortable with him taking the rest of the season off as sort of a stealth tank. Maybe you figure the change of scenery and smaller market could help, although I’m not sure what type of resources the Kings would have to offer in this department. Maybe you figure this season is lost anyway so you don’t have much to lose. But of course you don’t know.

or

2. Simmons/his camp have taken advantage of our society’s progress in recognizing mental illness to exaggerate a mental health issue for leverage to force his way out. If they’re willing to do this to try to sabotage a potential finals contender, to what lengths might they go if things go south in Sacramento? It’s not like this franchise has been the model of stability the past two decades.

Does either scenario sound great? I agree this team needs a personnel shake up, but I don’t think you can assume Simmons necessarily hits the ground running right after any trade to the Kings

 

[Warhawk]

You have no medical diagnosis, yet you jump to the most extreme conclusion.

I am just going by the statements of the player himself and anyone else associated with the situation I have seen. Without a medical diagnosis, and without the player coming back to play to show he can, how can you assume otherwise?

The rest of your statement, like your initial assumptions, is pure speculation on your part and not worth addressing.

 

[Warhawk]

I’m treading lightly given the stigma that has historically been associated with mental illnesses, but as the Kings would be wary of trading for a player that has been out all season with an undisclosed knee or foot issue, you have to acknowledge there is some issue here that you would need to have the patience and resources to help him work with. Maybe you still trade for him being comfortable with him taking the rest of the season off as sort of a stealth tank. Maybe you figure the change of scenery and smaller market could help, although I’m not sure what type of resources the Kings would have to offer in this department. Maybe you figure this season is lost anyway so you don’t have much to lose. But of course you don’t know.

Correct, but also:

Simmons' contract is for 3+ years at this point. Your assumption is that it only affects this year - if it lingers, it could be a 3.5 year albatross for the Kings at $33 to $40 million per year.

If Monte traded say, Fox and one of Mitchell/Hali to make salaries work (assuming those are the easiest to fit, I haven't run any numbers and am not playing with various permutations), and Simmons doesn't suit up, Monte would be considered the worst GM we've ever had. Ever.

 

[serbiangoat]

Correct, but also:

Simmons' contract is for 3+ years at this point. Your assumption is that it only affects this year - if it lingers, it could be a 3.5 year albatross for the Kings at $33 to $40 million per year.

If Monte traded say, Fox and one of Mitchell/Hali to make salaries work (assuming those are the easiest to fit, I haven't run any numbers and am not playing with various permutations), and Simmons doesn't suit up, Monte would be considered the worst GM we've ever had. Ever.

Nah he would never top Vlade as worst

 

[kb02]

Yeah, I used to be in favor of taking a swing at Simmons, but at some point, doesn’t it boil down to either:

1. he has a serious enough mental health issue going on that has kept him from suiting up for a contender all season. I’m treading lightly given the stigma that has historically been associated with mental illnesses, but as the Kings would be wary of trading for a player that has been out all season with an undisclosed knee or foot issue, you have to acknowledge there is some issue here that you would need to have the patience and resources to help him work with. Maybe you still trade for him being comfortable with him taking the rest of the season off as sort of a stealth tank. Maybe you figure the change of scenery and smaller market could help, although I’m not sure what type of resources the Kings would have to offer in this department. Maybe you figure this season is lost anyway so you don’t have much to lose. But of course you don’t know.

or

2. Simmons/his camp have taken advantage of our society’s progress in recognizing mental illness to exaggerate a mental health issue for leverage to force his way out. If they’re willing to do this to try to sabotage a potential finals contender, to what lengths might they go if things go south in Sacramento? It’s not like this franchise has been the model of stability the past two decades.

Does either scenario sound great? I agree this team needs a personnel shake up, but I don’t think you can assume Simmons necessarily hits the ground running right after any trade to the Kings

Expecting some rust is normal. Can not play does not equal can never play. I take the talent upgrade each and every time.

 

[kb02]

Correct, but also:

Simmons' contract is for 3+ years at this point. Your assumption is that it only affects this year - if it lingers, it could be a 3.5 year albatross for the Kings at $33 to $40 million per year.

If Monte traded say, Fox and one of Mitchell/Hali to make salaries work (assuming those are the easiest to fit, I haven't run any numbers and am not playing with various permutations), and Simmons doesn't suit up, Monte would be considered the worst GM we've ever had. Ever.

Fox for Simmons works straight up though the Kings would have to add value at this point. Certainly not Hali or Mitchell, but value. Maybe Barnes and filler back.

 

[Joshoua]

If we do acquire Simmons we need to find a way to get Turner them two match perfect on defense and offense and would make us a good defending team

 

[kb02]

If we do acquire Simmons we need to find a way to get Turner them two match perfect on defense and offense and would make us a good defending team

That would be the only scenario where I prefer Turner over Sabonis. Turner is a better three point shooter. Without Simmons, the Kings would need Sabonis’ passing.

 

[steelevt]

Nah he would never top Vlade as worst

I still think it’s PDA. But vlade was here longer to make more mistakes so it’s a lot closer than I used to think.

 

[Warhawk]

Fox for Simmons works straight up though the Kings would have to add value at this point. Certainly not Hali or Mitchell, but value. Maybe Barnes and filler back.

I'm sorry, we aren't trading Fox for someone who isn't playing at all, much less "adding value". Not unless we have assurances he can play and play at a high level. We don't have anything like that yet.

 

[kb02]

https://theathletic.com/3052221/202...ook/?article_source=search&search_query=amick

"Five months later, with the Kings (16-23) barely hanging onto the 10th spot in this watered-down West, they’re still highly motivated to make the kind of significant move(s) that would both bolster their postseason chances in the present while giving them a runway for sustained success in the future. More specifically, sources say Kings owner Vivek Ranadive has continued to make it clear to McNair that he has the green light to do whatever is necessary to meet those goals. And while the Kings would prefer to keep building around De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton, their strong appetite to improve means that no player is off the table in terms of potential talks.

Wherever there’s an impact player who can be had, in other words, they’ll be exploring the possibilities. And yes, as you likely wondered, that includes Philadelphia’s Ben Simmons.

While I reported in early September that a Kings-Simmons deal was looking very unlikely, that was long before team officials had a chance to see nearly half a season’s worth of (mostly subpar) play. Sacramento’s interest is definitely there.

Still, sources say the Sixers — who have been on the lookout for an All-Star in return for Simmons for so long now — have continued to ask for a massive haul in return while frustrating some suitors along the way. As such, some team executives remain convinced that Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey is still waiting for Portland’s Damian Lillard or Washington’s Bradley Beal to be made available down the line (i.e. this summer at the earliest)"

 

[ESP47]

Morey has a little more leverage than he did in the beginning of the year since the Sixers are 5th in the standings and don't absolutely have to trade Simmons to salvage their year. I think he's crazy if he thinks he can trade Simmons for Lillard straight up. Beal would be a straight up trade if Simmons didn't have mental issues but with those issues, I think Morey would have to sweeten the pot to get Beal.

 

[SacTownKid]

Sounds like Vivek is looking at improve the team NOW deals. No blowups. Kings still hovering in that 10th spot. If he can get a legit wing to help out playing small ball then there may be a shot they get into the play in and make some noise. Who knows. If that's his goal wonder what a Haliburton/Davion/pick package can net? Haliburton is starting to dip might want to look into it now.

 

[The_Jamal]

Sounds like Vivek is looking at improve the team NOW deals. No blowups. Kings still hovering in that 10th spot. If he can get a legit wing to help out playing small ball then there may be a shot they get into the play in and make some noise. Who knows. If that's his goal wonder what a Haliburton/Davion/pick package can net? Haliburton is starting to dip might want to look into it now.

Cam Reddish would be my #1 target. Fits the criteria of getting a future piece, but also someone you can plug at the wing and fill the 34+ MPG void we've missed for so long. A Barnes for Reddish-Gallo base seems reasonably strong for both teams.

 

[sactowndog]

https://theathletic.com/3052221/202...ook/?article_source=search&search_query=amick

"Five months later, with the Kings (16-23) barely hanging onto the 10th spot in this watered-down West, they’re still highly motivated to make the kind of significant move(s) that would both bolster their postseason chances in the present while giving them a runway for sustained success in the future. More specifically, sources say Kings owner Vivek Ranadive has continued to make it clear to McNair that he has the green light to do whatever is necessary to meet those goals. And while the Kings would prefer to keep building around De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton, their strong appetite to improve means that no player is off the table in terms of potential talks.

Wherever there’s an impact player who can be had, in other words, they’ll be exploring the possibilities. And yes, as you likely wondered, that includes Philadelphia’s Ben Simmons.

While I reported in early September that a Kings-Simmons deal was looking very unlikely, that was long before team officials had a chance to see nearly half a season’s worth of (mostly subpar) play. Sacramento’s interest is definitely there.

Still, sources say the Sixers — who have been on the lookout for an All-Star in return for Simmons for so long now — have continued to ask for a massive haul in return while frustrating some suitors along the way. As such, some team executives remain convinced that Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey is still waiting for Portland’s Damian Lillard or Washington’s Bradley Beal to be made available down the line (i.e. this summer at the earliest)"

in other words, “we plan to keep all options open”, “they’re still highly motivated to make the kind of significant move(s) that would both bolster their postseason chances in the present while giving them a runway for sustained success in the future”

the Kings remain uncommitted on their direction and firmly on track for their usual 8-10 back end of the lottery drafting spot.

 

[kb02]

in other words, “we plan to keep all options open”, “they’re still highly motivated to make the kind of significant move(s) that would both bolster their postseason chances in the present while giving them a runway for sustained success in the future”

the Kings remain uncommitted on their direction and firmly on track for their usual 8-10 back end of the lottery drafting spot.

The only named Kings target in that blurb is Simmons. As it should be. Max pain is this off season though I don’t have much faith in McNair to actually have the balls to make that move. Prove me wrong, McNair. Otherwise, you’ll just get banished to middle management operations for the Rockets in a year from now (like what happened to PDA when he returned to the Nuggets).

 

[kb02]

Morey has a little more leverage than he did in the beginning of the year since the Sixers are 5th in the standings and don't absolutely have to trade Simmons to salvage their year. I think he's crazy if he thinks he can trade Simmons for Lillard straight up. Beal would be a straight up trade if Simmons didn't have mental issues but with those issues, I think Morey would have to sweeten the pot to get Beal.

Beal expires at the end of the 2023 season, so he has leverage, He’ll go wherever he wants to go next year. Whoever acquires him will want to sign him to an extension and likely won’t do so without that guarantee.

 

[kb02]

Sounds like Vivek is looking at improve the team NOW deals. No blowups. Kings still hovering in that 10th spot. If he can get a legit wing to help out playing small ball then there may be a shot they get into the play in and make some noise. Who knows. If that's his goal wonder what a Haliburton/Davion/pick package can net? Haliburton is starting to dip might want to look into it now.

You’re trading the wrong guard though it’s obvious that Hali would be the first name from other teams because he’s the Kings best player and is also on his rookie deal.

 

[ESP47]

Beal expires at the end of the 2023 season, so he has leverage, He’ll go wherever he wants to go next year. Whoever acquires him will want to sign him to an extension and likely won’t do so without that guarantee.

I'm just annoyed that Vivek is making the exact same mistake he's made nearly every year he's been the owner. The same mistake that has kept the Kings in mediocrity this entire time. The belief that his yearly sub .500 squad is on the verge of breaking out if only a move or two was made.

 

[Warhawk]

You’re trading the wrong guard though it’s obvious that Hali would be the first name from other teams because he’s the Kings best player and is also on his rookie deal.

We may not agree on some things, but I think for performance vs. cost you are correct about Hali. I wouldn't trade him unless something VERY good was coming back our direction.

 

[SacTownKid]

You’re trading the wrong guard though it’s obvious that Hali would be the first name from other teams because he’s the Kings best player and is also on his rookie deal.

Exactly. That's the problem Monte is going to face if his only goal is to improve now. You have to find teams looking to rebuild otherwise you're just making lateral moves to help in the interim.

 

[SacTownKid]

We may not agree on some things, but I think for performance vs. cost you are correct about Hali. I wouldn't trade him unless something VERY good was coming back our direction.

The issue going forward is how all 3 guards can flourish from here on at the same time. Doug was the only one so far that did play them together with some level of intent. If Davion and Haliburton break out a team will hit them up at FA time with a bag of cash and a starting spot. Monte better be planning for that reality now, not later.

 

[sactowndog]

The issue going forward is how all 3 guards can flourish from here on at the same time. Doug was the only one so far that did play them together with some level of intent. If Davion and Haliburton break out a team will hit them up at FA time with a bag of cash and a starting spot. Monte better be planning for that reality now, not later.

Right and which one is guarding SF’s like Monte seems to think is possible?

 

[Groovygreg]

in other words, “we plan to keep all options open”, “they’re still highly motivated to make the kind of significant move(s) that would both bolster their postseason chances in the present while giving them a runway for sustained success in the future”

the Kings remain uncommitted on their direction and firmly on track for their usual 8-10 back end of the lottery drafting spot.

Failing to plan is planning to fail. That’s the Kings in a nutshell.

 

[funkykingston]

Simmons not being able to play right away and/or having to shake off rust isn't really an issue. I know Vivek wants to win now, but with players dropping left and right due to positive COVID tests, Holmes being in and out of the lineup, potentially a deal for Hield and/or Bagley, this team is not headed for the playoffs with or without a shakeup.

So if the team traded for Simmons, the fact that he'd likely miss a few games and then have to round into shape isn't really a big deal. It adds ping-pong balls and gives him all the time needed to acclimate. If the Kings were to play well at the very end of the season (generally fool's gold) it would at least give hope moving forward which is what Kings fans need and currently don't have.

I previously said that I'd keep Hield if Simmons was dealt for but I think that really depends on what his mindset/attitude is. Is he a malcontent/unhappy and desperately wants out? If so, deal him if there's something of value to be gotten. Trade Bagley if there's any interest. Deal Barnes to a team that needs a 3/4 wing for their playoff push (Atlanta maybe?) and even deal Holmes if the right deal comes along.

I don't think the Kings have the pieces to get Turner without giving up FRPs but Indiana has lost 6 straight and needs a shakeup. Plus Turner is a FA after next season, making this the time to move him. If the Pacers were willing to take say Barnes & Holmes for Turner and Warren and the Sixers would take Fox for Simmons you'd have:

C Turner/Thompson/Len/Jones/Queta (why so many bigs Monte?)
PF Metu or Harkless/Woodard
SF Simmons/Warren/King
SG Haliburton/Davis/Ramsey
PG Mitchell

Plus whatever you could get for Buddy and/or Bagley - ideally a backup PG and a wing who shoots well. That team needs shooting and roster balance, but would likely be drafting in the 6-10 range where guys like Keegan Murray, Kendall Brown, Nikola Jovic, or even Patrick Baldwin if he starts putting it together.

Turner
Simmons
Rookie SF/PF
Haliburton
Mitchell

Is a pretty solid starting five with solid defense and enough shooting to cover for Simmons. You can stagger your best playmakers in Haliburton and Simmons to maximize both.

Probably a pipe dream on both trades honestly, but I'd greatly prefer that team to what we have now plus another mid-to-late lottery pick.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Someone posted this on the RealGM Boston trade board:

View attachment 10815

Has anybody actually *heard* this podcast? As Abraham Lincoln once said, "you can't trust everything you read on the internet".

 

[macadocious]

Has anybody actually *heard* this podcast? As Abraham Lincoln once said, "you can't trust everything you read on the internet".

Everyone messes up this quote, it’s was Benjamin Jefferson.

 

[gilly420]

Someone posted this on the RealGM Boston trade board:

View attachment 10815

Whoa. I hope he didn't say that. It's 99.9% true but you can't drop that quote.

 

[funkykingston]

I've never heard (or heard OF) the NN podcast. Then again, I'm not big on sports podcasts in general.

Not really worth commenting on if it isn't substantiated.

 

[The_Jamal]

Whoa. I hope he didn't say that. It's 99.9% true but you can't drop that quote.

I guarantee it would have been blown up in Sacramento media if he actually said that. Not something Fox can just sneak by everyone, especially with the state of the team is in