big georgey

[bajaden]

hope they are working with him on his fundamentals bc he looks awful.

I wouldn't say he looks awful. A tad mechanical perhaps, and a tad slow to react, but he seems to have a nice touch on the ball. I know he's huge, and as a result, looks like a player that's 21 or 22 year old, but he's not, so lets cut him some slack. He obviously needs to get in better shape, or lighter shape, which will help his quickness. Lets give him a couple of years and see where he's at then.

 

[bajaden]

I freely admit that I knew almost nothing about Papagiannis before the Kings drafted him. I read a bit online but didn't really bother learning a lot since he was projected as a late 2nd rounder for most of the run up to the draft.

But the guy I really did like was Ivica Zubac. And while he has a long way to go too he looks a hell of a lot better than Papa right now and has at least as much potential. Oh, and he went 32nd.

As always I'm keeping tabs on the guys I liked that the Kings didn't draft. Dejounte Murray isn't getting a lot of run with the Spurs right now (and bouncing back and forth between SA and Austin) but you can bet they'll develop him into the best version of what he can be. And I think he can be a heck of a player. Zubac has looked really good playing for the D-Fenders and McCaw has already become an important bench player for the Warriors.

If the Kings didn't want Baldwin at 13 I wished they would have traded down again and either picked up another pick or a vet. Maybe to Boston for #19 and #31 (you know Boston didn't want to keep all those picks) and they could have nabbed Murray, Skal, Zubac and McCaw.

I'd feel a hell of a lot better about the future of the Kings with that kind of haul.

I really liked McCaw, and he was outstanding at summer league. He looked like a good stiff breeze would blow him over, but he was a very good defender at summer league, and he really shot the ball well. I'd love him on the Kings. Prior to the draft, he was one that I thought should stay another year in school. But he's proving me wrong. Good for him.. Dejounte Murray was another one I thought should stay in school. Wouldn't surprise me if he jumped up in a year or two and plays well for the Spurs. They seem to have a knack for making diamonds out of coal.

 

[bajaden]

What exactly did Vlade see in this guy again?

I think big Papa has some pictures of Vlade in comprising positions.......

 

[bajaden]

true. he does have size and athleticism. i had to watch the vid twice... he wasn't boxing out and poor rebounding instincts. he has size but doesn't know how to use it properly to get position and seal off his man. i hope they bring a big man coach and have him work just that aspect of his game. it would help him a long way

Look, you can't tell if a player knows how to do squat from watching a 45 second video. When I watched him at summer league, the only two things that I felt he did well was box out and rebound. And, on occasion, he defended the basket well. Other than that, I thought he was laughable. He looks far better on offense in that video than he did on any occasion at summer league.

 

[funkykingston]

I like how you follow draft prospects. Seeing I have been a Kings fan since 85 I too had to get behind something besides our on court performance.

I was hoping Dunn would fall to 8 but also liked Brown a lot. There was a pre draft article called Jaylen Brown Renissance Man, its a good read about Jaylen's many interest outside of basketball. After reading it I would have loved to have him as a King.

Both Brown and Chriss are said to have a lot of hobbies/interest outside basketball. Smart kids. There's the theory that being smart can hurt if you overthink things instead of just play/react but I'm not sure I've ever really bought into that.

My issues with Brown (and Chriss too) was that he is an athletic marvel without any one thing to hang his hat on. With Marquese it's an even bigger gamble because of his anemic college rebounding and ridiculously high foul rate.

But it's hard to deny the possible upside. Papa clearly has a low floor when he's getting limited D-League minutes and not really producing at that level. And I have no idea how high (or low) his ceiling could be. That worries me.

 

[bajaden]

Pretty much. Big with a reported 7'6" wingspan and fast end to end for his speed. As Kingsfan23 pointed out he's flashed a nice jumper in workouts (that I haven't seen in games) but really the pick was all about physical tools with the hope that he could be an impact player once he's in shape and with a LOT of work on his fundamentals and getting used to the speed of the NBA game.

Zubac doesn't quite have Papagiannis' size or wingspan and is more of a plodder but he's flashed a lot more skill IMO. And since both are throwback centers I'm not sure Papa's footspeed (north-south only as neither guy has much lateral quickness to speak of) is all that big a deal anyway.

First, I think your right about him confusing McCaw with LeVert. To be honest with you, LeVert disappointed me when he was healthy, but that's a another discussion for another day. Speaking of bigs with good lateral quickness, Bam Adebayo has excellent lateral quickness for a 6'10", 255 pound player. He's been very impressive defensively. He appears to have good hands, and he rebounds very well. So far, I like what I see from him.

 

[bajaden]

Both Brown and Chriss are said to have a lot of hobbies/interest outside basketball. Smart kids. There's the theory that being smart can hurt if you overthink things instead of just play/react but I'm not sure I've ever really bought into that.

My issues with Brown (and Chriss too) was that he is an athletic marvel without any one thing to hang his hat on. With Marquese it's an even bigger gamble because of his anemic college rebounding and ridiculously high foul rate.

But it's hard to deny the possible upside. Papa clearly has a low floor when he's getting limited D-League minutes and not really producing at that level. And I have no idea how high (or low) his ceiling could be. That worries me.

You can throw WCS into that same catagory as Brown and Chriss, and I've said many times, that I think Willie's main problem is that he spends too much time on the floor thinking about what he should be doing instead of just reacting. So I think that theory can have merit with some players. However, every player is an individual, and sometimes general rules don't apply.

 

[PurpleHaze]

What exactly did Vlade see in this guy again?

Maybe he saw himself at age 19. I remember Vlade's rookie year with Lakers. A somewhat skinny center who spoke no English but showed regular flashes of what ultimately became. Unfortunately, Vlade might have been just taking a gamble with Papa but now seems less and less likely to ever pay off.

 

[funkykingston]

I really liked McCaw, and he was outstanding at summer league. He looked like a good stiff breeze would blow him over, but he was a very good defender at summer league, and he really shot the ball well. I'd love him on the Kings. Prior to the draft, he was one that I thought should stay another year in school. But he's proving me wrong. Good for him.. Dejounte Murray was another one I thought should stay in school. Wouldn't surprise me if he jumped up in a year or two and plays well for the Spurs. They seem to have a knack for making diamonds out of coal.

It's funny, as the 28th pick approached I had no idea what the Kings would do. Papagiannis was a black box that didn't fill a need and Richardson seemed like fool's gold to me - an inefficient chucker who looked the part but was riding his tourney run and one of my least favorite prospects. Did Vlade even have a strategy?

But I thought I knew what the Spurs would do. There's always the chance they'd grab an international kid they could stash for a year or two but I thought it was far more likely they'd take Murray, Labissiere or Diallo and turn them into something.

Skal was also one of my least favorite prospects but I was onboard with the gamble at 28. So far he's impressed me and it looks like I might be wrong on Malachi which would be nice.

But that Papagiannis pick? Ugh. Hopefully in time he develops. A LOT.

 

[BaDgEraffe]

The kid is 19, and plays arguably the hardest position to transfer to the NBA skills wise. His biggest weakness is strength, until his body fat % is lower and his strength develops he will struggle. If you look at his game as a whole, he has a lot to work with, and in 2 years time I can see him developing nicely.

 

[KingsFan80]

If your responding to my post, funkykingston and I are referring to Dejounte Murray of Washington not Jamal Murray of Kentucky who was off the board by 8 anyways.

I was talking about Papa..Jamal Murray is a stud. Dejounte Murray isn't a bad player either

 

[Kingsfan23]

Both Brown and Chriss are said to have a lot of hobbies/interest outside basketball. Smart kids. There's the theory that being smart can hurt if you overthink things instead of just play/react but I'm not sure I've ever really bought into that.

My issues with Brown (and Chriss too) was that he is an athletic marvel without any one thing to hang his hat on. With Marquese it's an even bigger gamble because of his anemic college rebounding and ridiculously high foul rate.

But it's hard to deny the possible upside. Papa clearly has a low floor when he's getting limited D-League minutes and not really producing at that level. And I have no idea how high (or low) his ceiling could be. That worries me.

What about the upside of a consensus top two freshman recruit and top 2 prospect for much of last year Skal

I'm not hurting for that trade now given the upside of Skal and Bogdans rep in Europe

It will be interesting to see how it plays out

 

[Big Cuz 15]

bogdan might make it all worth the trade.

 

[206Fan]

What about the upside of a consensus top two freshman recruit and top 2 prospect for much of last year Skal

I'm not hurting for that trade now given the upside of Skal and Bogdans rep in Europe

It will be interesting to see how it plays out

Highschool recruiting doesn't mean much when they are horrible in college. Justin Jackson was a top 10 recruit on all sites, yet he hasn't really translated his play over from HS.
Skal has a high upside, but he's extremely raw. For a 7ft guy, he plays really soft too. I also don't think people realize that Skal came into college a year older. He'll turn 21 in March.

Bogdanovic is going to be a 25yearold rookie....older than Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, and MKG. 3 years older than the Greek Freak Giannis.
This isn't like when we drafted Peja in 96, then had him come over in 98 at the age of 21. Entirely different. Bogdanovic will be 25.

I think age needs to be held accounted for when you're talking about Bogdanvoic. I see it being swept under the rug a lot. Question: why?
NBA players are reaching their prime at the age of 25. Most NBA players are already in their prime at 25. But we have him just barely entering the NBA at this age.

We really can't afford to have him struggling to adjust in the NBA for his first few years. Keep in mind, we're not even going to be paying him the rookie scale either.

 

[bajaden]

It's funny, as the 28th pick approached I had no idea what the Kings would do. Papagiannis was a black box that didn't fill a need and Richardson seemed like fool's gold to me - an inefficient chucker who looked the part but was riding his tourney run and one of my least favorite prospects. Did Vlade even have a strategy?

But I thought I knew what the Spurs would do. There's always the chance they'd grab an international kid they could stash for a year or two but I thought it was far more likely they'd take Murray, Labissiere or Diallo and turn them into something.

Skal was also one of my least favorite prospects but I was onboard with the gamble at 28. So far he's impressed me and it looks like I might be wrong on Malachi which would be nice.

But that Papagiannis pick? Ugh. Hopefully in time he develops. A LOT.

Yeah, I remember at summer league. Uncia03, the Capt, and I were all sitting together and after Papa got the ball the first time and did what he did, we all turned and looked at each other with exact same look on our face. WOW! Are you kidding me? I agree on Skal. He had a terrible year at Kentucky except for one game, but at 28, I thought you know, he could end up being the steal of the draft at that spot.

I wasn't as down on Richardson as your were. I guess I saw some light at the end of the tunnel, but he wouldn't have been my choice at that point. At summer league I thought he played with more control than he had at Syracuse, and his shot selection (my main gripe with him) was much better. So, Vlade may have picked a good one.

 

[bajaden]

Highschool recruiting doesn't mean much when they are horrible in college. Justin Jackson was a top 10 recruit on all sites, yet he hasn't really translated his play over from HS.
Skal has a high upside, but he's extremely raw. For a 7ft guy, he plays really soft too. I also don't think people realize that Skal came into college a year older. He'll turn 21 in March.

Bogdanovic is going to be a 25yearold rookie....older than Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, and MKG. 3 years older than the Greek Freak Giannis.
This isn't like when we drafted Peja in 96, then had him come over in 98 at the age of 21. Entirely different. Bogdanovic will be 25.

I think age needs to be held accounted for when you're talking about Bogdanvoic. I see it being swept under the rug a lot. Question: why?
NBA players are reaching their prime at the age of 25. Most NBA players are already in their prime at 25. But we have him just barely entering the NBA at this age.

We really can't afford to have him struggling to adjust in the NBA for his first few years. Keep in mind, we're not even going to be paying him the rookie scale either.

If Bogdanovic comes over at age 25 and plays like a 25 year old, then who cares. How long does the average NBA player spend on one team? You have your ecceptions, like Duncan, and with us so far, Cousins, but in general most players don't last more than 4 or 5 years on the same team. So if you get a 25 year old player thats up to snuff and he contributes to the team for 5 years, I think that's a bonus, and better than drafting a 18 or 19 year old, spending 2 or 3 of those years developing him, and then having him leave after a couple more years. The Peja scenario was a perfect one. We got a player that would be about the same age he would have been if he stayed in college 4 years and he was ready to play. I don't have a problem with Bogdanovic as long as he's ready to contribute when he gets here.

As far as Skal is concerned. Number one. He's not raw. At least not for a one and done player. Cousins was more raw coming out of Kentucky than Skal was. Skal is very skilled, but, and this is in my opinion his main but, he isn't strong enough to play against NBA caliber PF's. He isn't soft. By that I mean he's not afraid to get in and bang with people in the post, it's just that he doesn't have the strength to do it. He gets pushed around too easily. He had the same problem at Kentucky. He got pushed out of position by 6'6" guys. Give him some time to add strength and then we'll see. He has some SF skills, but I doubt he's quick enough to guard them.

 

[bajaden]

I was talking about Papa..Jamal Murray is a stud. Dejounte Murray isn't a bad player either

I like Murray, but I wouldn't call him a stud just yet. He's going through growing pains just like most rookies. So far, he's either been real reel good, or real real bad. Overall he's shooting over 40% from the three, which sounds great, but he's been extremely streaky. He'll shoot 75% from the three in one game, and in the next game he'll shoot 25%. So his main problem is consistency. The main cause of his inconsistency is poor shot selection. He takes some god awful shots at times, and there are times when those go in. But when he's open, and squared up, he shoots a high percentage. He could be a top scorer in a couple of years when he stops forcing things.

 

[Jimbob]

Yeah if Richardson keeps improving and Bogdan makes it over next year we might actually have a nice SG lineup.
I recon Ben is likely gone, Afflalo and Tolliver are not guaranteed next season. Its a slow rebuild but happening, just hope Cuz can hang with it.

 

[biltalent]

The last few games Papagiannis has looked much better. Here are some highlights.

9 points vs the suns

5 blocks vs the vipers

10 points vs legends

His body looks much better and so does his ability to guard the pick and roll and block shots. Also nice to see him get some post shots to fall.

 

[John Galt]

How old is this guy that most of the board wrote off on draft day anyway?

 

[Suicide King]

He doesn't turn 20 until July 3rd.

 

[biltalent]

How old is this guy that most of the board wrote off on draft day anyway?

He turned 19 in July.

 

[gunks]

How old is this guy that most of the board wrote off on draft day anyway?

Tis easier to eat crow than suffer heartbreak.

For some of us anyways.

Glad he's showing some signs of life!

 

[dude12]

Nice hi lights of George

 

[ockingsfan]

The last few games Papagiannis has looked much better. Here are some highlights.

9 points vs the suns

5 blocks vs the vipers

10 points vs legends

His body looks much better and so does his ability to guard the pick and roll and block shots. Also nice to see him get some post shots to fall.

Papa is looking like a real basketball player in those videos.

In 2 years, he may be our new starting center................................











And DMC will be our All-Star Power Forward!!!!

 

[nebs]

Would be hilarious (to see the Kangz haters reactions) if Vlade actually nailed all 3 draft picks plus Bogdan.

 

[funkykingston]

That last clip especially was encouraging.

I hoped that in time Papagiannis could provide what Koufos does: a backup center with size who rebounds well, is a good interior defender, a very solid pick & roll defender and who can score on putbacks, rolling to the hoop and a bit of post scoring.

Papa has a very long way to go but his first and last buckets in that clip are two things I've never seen Koufos do. First the pivot in the post, square up and splash the jumper. Then the up fake right into a nice up and under.

Papagiannis' two biggest goals right now are to get in shape and adjust to the speed of the NBA game and he's looking better on both aspects than he did at SL. Admittedly that's a low bar, but any progress is good.

 

[dude12]

In the block shot video, he looked like he had better timing and was getting off the floor better....of course, he may look awful if we saw him at other times, but overall he just looks more mobile.

I think he should also keep working on the outside shot all the way to 3 point range. Has a nice stroke.

 

[John Galt]

Would be hilarious (to see the Kangz haters reactions) if Vlade actually nailed all 3 draft picks plus Bogdan.

It sure looks IF he is committed to putting in the work - he can be a terrific player (all that 'you can't teach size' BS). He will have to work his ass off though to get to NBA condition. Can't wait to see Ailene's articles calling him a jumbo marshmallow if he doesn't.

Maybe all the skepticism from the Sacramento fan base will help light that fire and keep it lit.

 

[bajaden]

That last clip especially was encouraging.

I hoped that in time Papagiannis could provide what Koufos does: a backup center with size who rebounds well, is a good interior defender, a very solid pick & roll defender and who can score on putbacks, rolling to the hoop and a bit of post scoring.

Papa has a very long way to go but his first and last buckets in that clip are two things I've never seen Koufos do. First the pivot in the post, square up and splash the jumper. Then the up fake right into a nice up and under.

Papagiannis' two biggest goals right now are to get in shape and adjust to the speed of the NBA game and he's looking better on both aspects than he did at SL. Admittedly that's a low bar, but any progress is good.

Yeah, you beat me to it. You noticed the same thing I noticed. He showed patience in the post, and some nice drop step moves that I've never seen Koufos do. Then the nice touch on the 18 foot jumper. Night and day difference from what I saw at summer league. Vlade may have better insight than we've given him credit for.