sometimes this team looks like phoenix couple years ago with stephon marbury....great stats, spectacular offensive games but inconsistent with poor defense and no play off....if we are going in trough the team and stlye transformation I believe biby should be traded at least now when is his trade value quite high....get somebody that is quicker and better defensive player....
Bibby's scoring bothers me a little ...
- Thread starter King4Life
- Start date
I think that you may be missing his point, but there is not use arguing because we will probably never agree.
My point is that Mike has been scoring a lot BECAUSE WE NEEDED HIM TO SCORE THIS MUCH. Realistically, there has been nobody else to do it. Brad is not scoring well. Bonzi and SAR are great options - when they are healthy.
I have no problems being critacl of Bibby whenit is warrented. However, all things considered, he has been the LEAST of our problems.
My point is that Mike has been scoring a lot BECAUSE WE NEEDED HIM TO SCORE THIS MUCH. Realistically, there has been nobody else to do it. Brad is not scoring well. Bonzi and SAR are great options - when they are healthy.
I have no problems being critacl of Bibby whenit is warrented. However, all things considered, he has been the LEAST of our problems.
P
Yes, there are. From all camps. Yours included.
I don't think many people are scapegoating.
For instance, Peja was detrimental this year when he was on the floor. The stats show it, the performance shows it. That's not scapegoating.
As for Bibby - I don't think people are pegging him as the "problem", but rather what he can do to help be a part of a long-term solution. At least that's what I'm doing.
I don't think anyone things big scorer = bad, or at least I don't.
I think inefficient big scorer = bad and a big scoring PG = not good.
Bibby was replaceable on all those teams. It wasn't him that was the engine, regardless of where he went in the playoffs. Just as Luc Longly wasn't the generator for the Bulls nor was Steve Kerr ... but they won a championship.
As for traditional vs. untraditional ... that's fine and dandy ... but right now, the "untraditional" method is not working and the staff we have to run it aren't the type of players that would thrive in it.
Bibby was as much a tourist on those teams as everyone on the team is a tourist to the Bibby-show.
Bibby being a volume shooter is leading us where, exactly? Is it working?
I don't think many people are scapegoating.
For instance, Peja was detrimental this year when he was on the floor. The stats show it, the performance shows it. That's not scapegoating.
As for Bibby - I don't think people are pegging him as the "problem", but rather what he can do to help be a part of a long-term solution. At least that's what I'm doing.
I don't think anyone things big scorer = bad, or at least I don't.
I think inefficient big scorer = bad and a big scoring PG = not good.
Bibby was replaceable on all those teams. It wasn't him that was the engine, regardless of where he went in the playoffs. Just as Luc Longly wasn't the generator for the Bulls nor was Steve Kerr ... but they won a championship.
As for traditional vs. untraditional ... that's fine and dandy ... but right now, the "untraditional" method is not working and the staff we have to run it aren't the type of players that would thrive in it.
Bibby was as much a tourist on those teams as everyone on the team is a tourist to the Bibby-show.
Bibby being a volume shooter is leading us where, exactly? Is it working?
I definitely agree with you, and I've said the above elsewhere. He's been a lone bright spot offensively (when he's been on) for a long time -- he's been the least of the Kings problems and has scored out of necessity. I went from ambivalent about keeping him to thinking that he should definitely be held onto over the past few weeks.
I just think the team operates best as it did last season and as seasons past -- Bibby in a distributing role that makes everyone else better. Bibby as distributor/occasional outburst scorer was a formula that worked very well. Bibby as primary scoring option does not have a great track record so far. I just don't think, as Bricklayer suggests, that it's scapegoating to suggest that perhaps Bibby's skills as a playmaker should/could be utilized more. We'll see what happens when/if everyone is healthy and Artest is in shape.
I just think the team operates best as it did last season and as seasons past -- Bibby in a distributing role that makes everyone else better. Bibby as distributor/occasional outburst scorer was a formula that worked very well. Bibby as primary scoring option does not have a great track record so far. I just don't think, as Bricklayer suggests, that it's scapegoating to suggest that perhaps Bibby's skills as a playmaker should/could be utilized more. We'll see what happens when/if everyone is healthy and Artest is in shape.
Reef has pretty much lived down to my expectations -- a talented milksop ala Peja. But if he wanted to grow a pair, discover a swagger, and run off and start scoring 40pts every other night I would not run around starting idiotic threads about how much he was hurting us. It takes a particular agenda to start running around denigrating a guy when he's playing well for your team.
Mike Bibby is a scorer. But he has balls and a sense of timing. He has cokiness and swagger. And far from a bad thing, that is what often separates the winners from the losers. If he's still on the team he will likely not be scoring 40 when we get good again. But running around bitching and moaning about a guy going off and carrying our bunch of banged up punchless pansies every other night is bordering on grotesque.
Mike Bibby is a scorer. But he has balls and a sense of timing. He has cokiness and swagger. And far from a bad thing, that is what often separates the winners from the losers. If he's still on the team he will likely not be scoring 40 when we get good again. But running around bitching and moaning about a guy going off and carrying our bunch of banged up punchless pansies every other night is bordering on grotesque.
Cool, I'll remember the new rule that players are off limits from criticism if they score lots of points. Even if they don't play defense, the team isn't winning and all anyone is saying is that perhaps that while Bibby's scoring is admirable, maybe it could be balanced with some playmaking.
It also takes a particular agenda to suggest that a guy who is playing with a wired shut jaw "grow a pair." Talk about grotesque...
It also takes a particular agenda to suggest that a guy who is playing with a wired shut jaw "grow a pair." Talk about grotesque...
nbrans, I think the formula worked better before because of the other ingredients we had then. We do not have them now. I do wish his assits were highe, but I also wish that the team had higher individual scoring percentages. Our scoring effeciency has gone down because the players we have are just not as good offensively was in the past.
I DO THINK THAT WILL IMPROVE WHEN THE IJURED RETURN.
My complaint with all the knocks on Bibby is that, without him, we would have lost even more games. Why be down on the one that has given us the most this year? Some of the ones who are out with injuries could have possibly been a bigger benefit than Bibby, but we will never know because they were not able to be on the court to show us.
Playmaker, he was not just "along for the ride" he was a major cog in the machine. to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.
I DO THINK THAT WILL IMPROVE WHEN THE IJURED RETURN.
My complaint with all the knocks on Bibby is that, without him, we would have lost even more games. Why be down on the one that has given us the most this year? Some of the ones who are out with injuries could have possibly been a bigger benefit than Bibby, but we will never know because they were not able to be on the court to show us.
Playmaker, he was not just "along for the ride" he was a major cog in the machine. to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.
Guess there is no hope...like I said everybody else has been run outta town...and here we go again. Geez...and I say this without really meaning it in a hateful way...more a sad statement...the 2 words that come to mind is "Ungrateful" "Backstabbers" AGAIN...that's how I would feel if I was Mike. This has nothing to do with him being paid millions, etc, etc...man oh man..I just am starting to get why these athletes have no loyalty anymore! I always went off on these guys for not appreciating the fans enough...but now I see where they are coming from. WHO do you think you're gonna get for this team that's better? Every other scoring option on this team couldn't make it at their other stops.....so now it's on Mike? If they get a dime dropping, 15 pt a game scorer, 8-10 assist pt guard...all of a sudden Bonzi, Reef, Brad & Ron are model citizens, clutch shooters and winners? LMAO! Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I am riding with Mike till the very end. We have witnessed something special wit this cat...there aren't 5 guys in this league I'd rather have in a clutch situation....and you may call me crazy...but down 1 or 2 with the game on the line...and 1 shot...I'm rolling with MB everytime! I keep rambling on & on about it...so this is it, I will roll with Mike quietly for now on. It's just I never thought I'd be arguing about him on this site like this...it's usually reserved for the gym down here in Faker land! lol
"Bibby was replaceable on all those teams. It wasn't him that was the engine, regardless of where he went in the playoffs. Just as Luc Longly wasn't the generator for the Bulls nor was Steve Kerr ... but they won a championship."
Are you kidding? I've read your replies, dont' agree with them, but have respected them. But trying to say Mike was replaceable and comparing him to Luc Longley and Steve Kerr? Now I know this is a JOKE! So Mike was just here, was not a HUGE reason for these teams flourishing? OK.
Are you kidding? I've read your replies, dont' agree with them, but have respected them. But trying to say Mike was replaceable and comparing him to Luc Longley and Steve Kerr? Now I know this is a JOKE! So Mike was just here, was not a HUGE reason for these teams flourishing? OK.
This team have a lot of scorers, Miller/Artest/KT/Reef/Wells all can score into 20s pt in any given night. Kings do not need a Bibby having 30+ fga per night, that is 40% of the shoot or a combine of KT/Miller/Kmart/Garcia/Reef(those 5 guy combine 57% fg %), when you have other high % scorer KT/Reef, maybe Miller.
We've tried that. Didn't work worth a damn. Every team needs to have structure and know on which side its bread is buttered.
Not sure what that meant, but I will just note that Mike has 30+ FGs exactly twice this year. Both in OT. One on a 35pt 10ast night in NY. One on last night's 42 pt effort. We scored 106pts and 123pts respectively in those games. Oddly us having a scorchingly hot shooter actually take a lot of shots did not seem to hurt our offense much.
Not sure what that meant, but I will just note that Mike has 30+ FGs exactly twice this year. Both in OT. One on a 35pt 10ast night in NY. One on last night's 42 pt effort. We scored 106pts and 123pts respectively in those games. Oddly us having a scorchingly hot shooter actually take a lot of shots did not seem to hurt our offense much.
Let's see...
Miller: Unreliable, can be easily take out of the game. No post game whatsoever.
Artest: He is getting the touches. Been here only for two games.
KT: Not effective every night. He is a mismatch, not in a positive sense, against half the teams we play.
Reef: Usually efficient scorer, still not in NBA shape. Shooting 35% since injury.
Wells: Still injured.
So right now, Artest is the only guy other than Bibby that warrants a high number of shots. We will see how things go when Reef and Wells get back to shape.
Miller: Unreliable, can be easily take out of the game. No post game whatsoever.
Artest: He is getting the touches. Been here only for two games.
KT: Not effective every night. He is a mismatch, not in a positive sense, against half the teams we play.
Reef: Usually efficient scorer, still not in NBA shape. Shooting 35% since injury.
Wells: Still injured.
So right now, Artest is the only guy other than Bibby that warrants a high number of shots. We will see how things go when Reef and Wells get back to shape.
P
Was Mike Bibby replaceable?
I think so. Find a PG who would prefer to be a SG and you've got Mike Bibby.
The team was on the level when they had "White Chocolate" running PG.
Bibby was a great player for the situation, but to think the old Kings (led by Webber) would fold like a cheap hat without him is, in my opinion, folly.
Webber was the engine on that team. Bibby, along with Peja and Vlade, was a spark plug, but NOT the driving force that propelled that team.
I don't think he was "just here", but I think in the heiarchy of importance, Bibby was more replaceable than Webber, Peja or Vlade.
I think so. Find a PG who would prefer to be a SG and you've got Mike Bibby.
The team was on the level when they had "White Chocolate" running PG.
Bibby was a great player for the situation, but to think the old Kings (led by Webber) would fold like a cheap hat without him is, in my opinion, folly.
Webber was the engine on that team. Bibby, along with Peja and Vlade, was a spark plug, but NOT the driving force that propelled that team.
Now I know this is a JOKE! So Mike was just here, was not a HUGE reason for these teams flourishing? OK.
^You're taking the Bibby thing a few steps beyond its logical extreme, playmaker. Your history isn't accurate. Bibby took the Kings to the next level with his steady play, improved field goal percentage, good decision-making and clutch play. He was a vast improvement over Jason Williams.
He fulfilled the best possible role upon his arrival since he fed off the other players, hit big shots when necessary and facilitated the offense. He was great in that role, and his contributions to the Kings' best teams were immense. He was a vital cog.
However frustrated those of us might be with Bibby's defense, he has been a crucial member of the Kings since he arrived. I don't like him as a first scoring option, but that doesn't mean that he's any less important of a player.
He fulfilled the best possible role upon his arrival since he fed off the other players, hit big shots when necessary and facilitated the offense. He was great in that role, and his contributions to the Kings' best teams were immense. He was a vital cog.
However frustrated those of us might be with Bibby's defense, he has been a crucial member of the Kings since he arrived. I don't like him as a first scoring option, but that doesn't mean that he's any less important of a player.
P
Well, all his swagger and cockiness is leading us where?
Everyone is acting like Bibby is leading us to the promise land by shooting a lot. He's not. The formula is broken.
Now, since everyone seems to assume this is about Reef, I don't believe Reef taking 17+ shots is the answer either. I think the answer is an even distribution between long shots and post shots. Reef is our best option in the post and Bibby is our best option from deep.
I think we need to utilize that.
If someone asked me the reason we're losing I'd say it's because we don't play defense and we don't play as a team with an efficient strategy.
I don't think ANYONE is bitching and moaning about him. I think people are trying to think of ways to make this team cohesive when they are healthy.
People seem to think this is a Reef vs. Bibby debate or a Bibby-Bash-fest ... it's neither, I don't think. I think it's people discussing how we can best operate and what we need from players.
Everyone is acting like Bibby is leading us to the promise land by shooting a lot. He's not. The formula is broken.
Now, since everyone seems to assume this is about Reef, I don't believe Reef taking 17+ shots is the answer either. I think the answer is an even distribution between long shots and post shots. Reef is our best option in the post and Bibby is our best option from deep.
I think we need to utilize that.
If someone asked me the reason we're losing I'd say it's because we don't play defense and we don't play as a team with an efficient strategy.
I don't think ANYONE is bitching and moaning about him. I think people are trying to think of ways to make this team cohesive when they are healthy.
People seem to think this is a Reef vs. Bibby debate or a Bibby-Bash-fest ... it's neither, I don't think. I think it's people discussing how we can best operate and what we need from players.
I'll maybe give you Vlade and Webber. But Peja? I LOVED Peja. My dog is even named after him, BUT he did not help much in clutch times or playoffs.
We did not have the same team with JWill. As much as I liked him, Bibby was an upgrade by FAR.
Bottom line: NO PLAYER HAS HELPED OUR TEAM AS MUCH THIS SEASON AS BIBBY.
We did not have the same team with JWill. As much as I liked him, Bibby was an upgrade by FAR.
Bottom line: NO PLAYER HAS HELPED OUR TEAM AS MUCH THIS SEASON AS BIBBY.
P
That is undebateable.
Bibby has been undeniably impressive on offense.
I wouldn't take that away from him. But, the caveat that applied to Reef is applicable to Bibby now. He's putting up BIG NUMBERS in losing efforts.
What I keep trying to say - and I guess I'm not saying it properly - is that Bibby is a great player and I'm discussing his holes. In doing so, I'm getting pushed on by ardent Bibby supporters so I'm showing area that he's not as godly as they think he is.
I think Bibby is a key component and can be one of the pieces that makes this team gel and win again. But, I don't think he's going to do it on the back of his scoring and with a lack of defense.
Bibby has been undeniably impressive on offense.
I wouldn't take that away from him. But, the caveat that applied to Reef is applicable to Bibby now. He's putting up BIG NUMBERS in losing efforts.
What I keep trying to say - and I guess I'm not saying it properly - is that Bibby is a great player and I'm discussing his holes. In doing so, I'm getting pushed on by ardent Bibby supporters so I'm showing area that he's not as godly as they think he is.
I think Bibby is a key component and can be one of the pieces that makes this team gel and win again. But, I don't think he's going to do it on the back of his scoring and with a lack of defense.
At least some people get what this whole topic is about. I can't see how anyone can read the first post and say I'm a Bibby-basher or I have an agenda against him. Mike Bibby is the leader of the team and the PG, therefore he needs to find aways of being effective other than scoring. I have given up on him being great defensively, but I think him and the coaching staff can do a better job with distributing the ball. Winning basketball games a lot of times is about getting the easy shots. I hope with Shareef healthier and Bonzi returning we'll see a bigger emphasis on that. Bibby should not be required to put on a jump shooting clinic for the Kings to win games cause it's not gonna happen every night.
King4Life, I understood your first post andhad no problems with it. I an ideal world, Bibby would not have to be the primary scorer. However, obviously, we do not have an ideal team right now. His play has been what we needed with the state of our team so far this year.
As for huis defense, we all know he neds MAJOR improvement. Sadly, it is NO worse than the rest of the team. At least he is getting it done one one side. I KNOW he needs to work both ends of the court, but so does everybody else.
As for huis defense, we all know he neds MAJOR improvement. Sadly, it is NO worse than the rest of the team. At least he is getting it done one one side. I KNOW he needs to work both ends of the court, but so does everybody else.
ok here i see 4 bad games stand out: 10 points game, 5 points game, 6 points game (2)....and you better feel glad that he didn't force it during those 4 games.....just like 2 games ago, he was 2-14...come back to me if you see him shoot 2-28...1/20, etc...the bottom line is, when he knows he is not shooting well, he shoots less..unlike the so called "consistant player" like kobe, iverson or T-Mac who would force themself score 20+ points by jacking up 30+ shots...at least Bibby isn't hurting his team by doing so..
and about those 17, 19 points games....give me a break, Bibby average near 21 points per game...the 17-19 points games are not that far away from his average.....unless you expect him to score 30+ points every single night.
and about those 17, 19 points games....give me a break, Bibby average near 21 points per game...the 17-19 points games are not that far away from his average.....unless you expect him to score 30+ points every single night.