Bibby's and Webber's defense

[#1sacfan]

It plain sucks and its time for everyone here to admit it. This is why we lost last night. Whoever Bibby was on basically scored. First it was Nash, and then it was Joe Johnson. And in the end when they switch Pedja to Joe Johnson it was Q burning Bibby. That last layup by Q was pathetic defense by Bibby. He gave up the middle for an easy shot. He is a defensive liability out there and I hope if Bobby J comes back that we plug him into the lineup to D up instead of Bibby.

Now to Webber. Is there a slower man in transition than him? He refuses to move his feet when he plays defense and just grabs people. It would have been nice in 4 quarters if he had protected the paint just once when Nash drove to the hoop. This is why he is not an allstar at this point. If you cannot play D, and D is 50% of the game then you should not be on the all star team.

 

[bigbadred00]

why is nash on the team then #1sacfan if you make the allstar game b/c you play D. hmmm.

 

[Stojakovic]

Bibby's D always sucked but Webber's can be quite solid.

 

[bigbadred00]

Webber it's more an effort thing during the regular season. Kinda like barry bonds and not running out plays in the infield. Ah I wish Webb still had a 100% knee.

 

[LilMissDiva]

Bibby's D was good when he played for the Olympics showing he has it in him. I can't call it. Maybe the coaching staff should do more to implement it than they do. (?)

 

[piksi]

There is a difference considering both players.

Bibby obviously can not defend if his life depended on it. He can not even guard a chair. I am surprised that Mike does not take it personal that he gets switched of the man because he is liability. If he takes it personal - he might work and improve on it. One thing that upsets me the most is his lack of willingness to rotate. He always seam to be late. No excuses for that.

CW - different story. He can defend. He "took out" TD in the game where Kings beat Spurs. It is mental. Obviously with the injuries he has become softer and more carefull. I do think that he will raise the level in the PO.
His transition is pathetic which is expected considering the condition of his leg. He is as slow as Vlade was last season or Ostertag now.

Obviously, team defense will suffer when 2/5 starters are not defending as well as they should. I do not see this changing during the regular season. Hopefully, they will step up in PO - if not - it will be another long summer

 

[gman23]

I agree and I've known that since day 1 with the Kings over the last 3 years. I wish Pat Riley was coaching the Kings instead of Alderman. The Kings will not complete the 1st round of the playoffs this year without D-fense. I know people here will disagree with me on the 1st round scenerio, but If they don't improve 75 percent on D in the next several games then we can hang it up as far as getting far in the playoffs

 

[bigbadred00]

I guess your forgot that we limited to the great Dallas team of last year to multiple under 40% shooting games last year in the playoffs. I know I know, why can't we do that during the regular season. It's frustrating at times.

 

[#1sacfan]

Thats what I mean, why does CWebb not try a little harder, its just an effort thing with him because his long arms definetly help him in being a better defender. Obviously it is going to be difficult for him to defend a team like the Suns but he should clog up that lane more.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well I'll tell you one reason we were able to dramatically up our defense in the playoffs last year, and may be able to again this year -- we slowed the game down. Transition defense really favors teams with speedy athletes, and out of our entire starting crew only Mobley is even an average athlete for his position at this point. But halfcourt defense can be faked much easier by a smart veteran team willing to dig in and work its butt off. If you make the right switches, fight through screens, rotate crisply, you can play strong team defense even without great athletes.

Our defense will pick up again in the playoffs this year -- you can almost count on it. Our guys know what it takes to win at that time of year. But will it pick up enough and be steady enough to get the ultimate job done? Ehhh...we may or may not have the personnel. We'll see.

In any case though, our PG defense has been weak ever since the Kings got good -- JWill followed by Bibby. And our center defense has been pretty weak too -- neither aging Vlade nor Brad were/are significant presences in there. And we've also never had an athlete or help defender at SF -- Corliss followed by Peja. But once upon a time, when Webb was young he averaged 2.1blks a game for us in his first season. That's down to 0.7 now with the knee. That's a problem. And with Tag getting splinters in his butt, we've pretty much replaced Scot Pollard with Darius Songaila on defense. That too is a problem. Combined with Peja's utter lack of defensive presence -- he really plays like a 6'4" guy on defense -- and we have less interior presence than any team in the league now. Our frontcourt goes 6'9", 6'9", 7'0" with a 6'9" reserve and not a one of them intimidates anybody.

 

[Ryle]

its time for everyone here to admit it

I don't think you are going to get a whole lot of arguments here and alot of people have said this for a long time.

Our main problem is stopping the ball and that boils down to our point guard who can't keep anyone in front of him. This totally breaks down our interior D(at least what semblance of interior D we have) and creates easy buckets for the other team.

What ticks me off is it doesn't seem to me that Bibby cares about his D and just figures if Adelman won't do anything about it or make him accountable he will just keep playing the way he does.

 

[NanaKing]

Our defense "sucks". I noticed it on nearly evedryone last night. Nash might as well have been at warmups. No one defended him properly.

 

[Bricklayer]

What ticks me off is it doesn't seem to me that Bibby cares about his D and just figures if Adelman won't do anything about it or make him accountable he will just keep playing the way he does.

Well yes, of course. Rick could just pull him and put in House.

Once upon a time we had an option we'd actually turn to occasionally , but unfortunately that option has only played about 20 of the last 70 games or so. Now there are no real options. And I would imagine an already weak defender carrying even more of the load on offense does not help the defensive focus any.

 

[piksi]

but unfortunately that option has only played about 20 of the last 70 games or so.

has it been that many ?

 

[Bricklayer]

has it been that many ?

I was off a little -- he's played in 25 of the last 80, not counting last year's 12(?) playoff games which he missed.

 

[piksi]

I was off a little -- he's played in 25 of the last 80, not counting last year's 12(?) playoff games which he missed.

wow !

 

[Bricklayer]

wow !

think that's grand, assuming nothing happens between now and the trading deadline, it will be up to about 25 of 110 games by the time he is ready to return.

 

[piksi]

think that's grand, assuming nothing happens between now and the trading deadline, it will be up to about 25 of 110 games by the time he is ready to return.

let's just hope that it will not turn out to be his FG% when he returenes

 

[bozzwell]

let's just hope that it will not turn out to be his FG% when he returenes

That was cold.

 

[keflanag]

It plain sucks and its time for everyone here to admit it. This is why we lost last night.

That is not why we lost. Was Phoenix's defense any better? No one talks about defense when you win. No one is complaining that the Suns allowed 4 players to score 20+ points. Accept players for what they are. There are very few defensive stoppers who are great offensive players.

 

[hoopsfan]

why is nash on the team then #1sacfan if you make the allstar game b/c you play D. hmmm.

I don't think they play much defense in the AS game.

 

[webberfan]

agreed, our defense sucks. you are absolutely right about that.

i don't buy the argument that webber is not in the all-star game because of his defensive woes. the all-star game is an offensive exhibition in which most players ignore defense altogether. most players are selected on their offensive contributions.

 

[bigbadred00]

do you guys remember the suns-spurs game. even the suns put up 110 or so in regulation versus the best defensive team in the game. did you expect anything better from the kings a definite lesser defensive team than the spurs. this is the game the suns play and we played to their game, the scores are going to be high on both sides.

the only team in the last 3 months with nash healthy that has done a good job versus the suns O is memphis last week when they overplayed nash and the spurs earlier in the season. nobody is stoping the suns, you act like our team was supposed to do something different.

 

[piksi]

do you guys remember the suns-spurs game. even the suns put up 110 or so in regulation versus the best defensive team in the game.

who won that game ?

 

[bigbadred00]

the spurs won the game by 4 due to a suns collapse sort of like ours but even worse they blew a 17 point lead in the 4th, while we blew a 16 point lead from the first. spurs are a great team, not denying that the point was that even a heralded D such as the Spurs gave up a TON of points to the suns. nobody is stopping the guys, why would we be any different. can you answer that.

 

[piksi]

the spurs won the game by 4 due to a suns collapse sort of like ours but even worse they blew a 17 point lead in the 4th, while we blew a 16 point lead from the first. spurs are a great team, not denying that the point was that even a heralded D such as the Spurs gave up a TON of points to the suns. nobody is stopping the guys, why would we be any different. can you answer that.

why not - why do we have to compare ourselves with other teams ?

 

[bigbadred00]

i hate to be a kings defence homer but we gave up 112 in regulation to the trailblazers who average alot less than the suns on sunday and the suns are much better offensively.

i wish our team did play with a defensive intensity, i've really only seen it a couple times this year (ie the 2nd spurs game) but usually it doesn't happen and it's rather sad cause we definitely have the talent, we just need some hard work i guess.

 

[#1sacfan]

In any case though, our PG defense has been weak ever since the Kings got good -- JWill followed by Bibby. And our center defense has been pretty weak too -- neither aging Vlade nor Brad were/are significant presences in there. And we've also never had an athlete or help defender at SF -- Corliss followed by Peja. But once upon a time, when Webb was young he averaged 2.1blks a game for us in his first season. That's down to 0.7 now with the knee. That's a problem. And with Tag getting splinters in his butt, we've pretty much replaced Scot Pollard with Darius Songaila on defense. That too is a problem. Combined with Peja's utter lack of defensive presence -- he really plays like a 6'4" guy on defense -- and we have less interior presence than any team in the league now. Our frontcourt goes 6'9", 6'9", 7'0" with a 6'9" reserve and not a one of them intimidates anybody.
Well Bibby does not play D or CWebb and once again its about Pedja for you. Please tell me a little about Bibby's or CWebbs defensive presence since Pedja is not a defensive presence.

 

[Bricklayer]

In any case though, our PG defense has been weak ever since the Kings got good -- JWill followed by Bibby. And our center defense has been pretty weak too -- neither aging Vlade nor Brad were/are significant presences in there. And we've also never had an athlete or help defender at SF -- Corliss followed by Peja. But once upon a time, when Webb was young he averaged 2.1blks a game for us in his first season. That's down to 0.7 now with the knee. That's a problem. And with Tag getting splinters in his butt, we've pretty much replaced Scot Pollard with Darius Songaila on defense. That too is a problem. Combined with Peja's utter lack of defensive presence -- he really plays like a 6'4" guy on defense -- and we have less interior presence than any team in the league now. Our frontcourt goes 6'9", 6'9", 7'0" with a 6'9" reserve and not a one of them intimidates anybody.

Well Bibby does not play D or CWebb and once again its about Pedja for you. Please tell me a little about Bibby's or CWebbs defensive presence since Pedja is not a defensive presence.

You are the one who manufactured this little topic in order to take shots at a player, not me. Peja generally takes care of his own man. However he is next to worthless as a help defender. What has changed for us is that post injuries Webber has descended to that level himself. He is no longer an interior defensive presence (and he was never Deke to begin with), and he can no longer cover for all of our pasty groundbound slugs the way he once did. So where is the extra help going to come from? Brad? He might as well be 6'6" on defense. Darius? Ditto. Peja? Of course not. We used to be unathletic and groundbound at two of the three frontcourt postions, now its all three. If ANY one of our frontcourt types had hops and the desire to use them, he could cover for everyone else. But Webb was it. And he just can't anymore. And that's a problem. And its not one that can be solved with our current personnel.

 

[acisking]

You are the one who manufactured this little topic in order to take shots at a player, not me. Peja generally takes care of his own man. However he is next to worthless as a help defender. What has changed for us is that post injuries Webber has descended to that level himself. He is no longer an interior defensive presence (and he was never Deke to begin with), and he can no longer cover for all of our pasty groundbound slugs the way he once did. So where is the extra help going to come from? Brad? He might as well be 6'6" on defense. Darius? Ditto. Peja? Of course not. We used to be unathletic and groundbound at two of the three frontcourt postions, now its all three. If ANY one of our frontcourt types had hops and the desire to use them, he could cover for everyone else. But Webb was it. And he just can't anymore. And that's a problem. And its not one that can be solved with our current personnel.

yea very well said