There have been more peja homers on this board more frequently since the news of the so called peja for artest deal broke. Dont get me wrong Peja is a good shooter. Not the best shooter in the NBA since Seattle owns the rights to him. However, I do believe that Peja will be the player dealt on this team before the trade deadline. For a player that is supposed to be in his prime and also in a contract year he doesnt play with any heart or urgency. He doesnt add any new elements to his game. Thus he doesn't deserve the max salary that Mr. Allen received from Seattle. It's obvious that he doesnt want to play for Sac anymore. At this point in time if we were winning no one would think of posting Bibby needs to go or Brad needs to go. Like I mentioned in earlier post their arent many good defensive point guards in the league with the exception of Billups. Everyone needs to just relax and let the season play out. There is still 57 games left in the year. If one of these core players are dealt then so be it, but I am glad that most of the members on this board are not GM's because this team would be as screwed up as the Knicks are. Possibly even worse.
Right now, NOT giving the ball to Peja could arguably be a good thing. I saw at least four times last night where Peja was passed the ball and instead of taking the shot he passed the ball back out to Miller or Bibby, usually with time expiring on the clock.
This isn't the first time this has happened with Peja. Remember before when everyone was so upset because Webber had supposedly told Bibby not to pass to Peja if Peja wasn't going to shoot it?
There are DEEP problems on this team. Getting rid of one player or another isn't going to solve them.
Welcome to mediocrity, folks. You might as well get comfortable because we're gonna be here a while.
This isn't the first time this has happened with Peja. Remember before when everyone was so upset because Webber had supposedly told Bibby not to pass to Peja if Peja wasn't going to shoot it?
There are DEEP problems on this team. Getting rid of one player or another isn't going to solve them.
Welcome to mediocrity, folks. You might as well get comfortable because we're gonna be here a while.
I'm sorry, I just don't get Bibby is a "clutch" shooter. I moved to Sacramento and got interested in the Kings the year after he evidently had his great showing which landed him a big contract with the Kings. I have never seen anything to support that money. I suppose dribbling the ball until the clock is so far down that the shot becomes a clutch qualifies him as taking the clutch shot because there is no other choice, but just how many of them does he make??? This is a team sport and needs to be played by the total team!
I'm not necessarily advocating trading anyone. I personally think that free agency has created a mess in the league. Example; Joe Johnson left a title contending team where he was a major contributor, because he could make more money in a year than a lot of us will make in a lifetime playing for a bottom feeder. Is it about winning or about making money.
Look at the teams of the past. They kept a team in tact and worked on it becoming a force instead of trading someone every time the team stubbed it's toe. In this day and age, no one has any patience or tolerance--the players or the fans. If we aren't a title contender this year, then we must get a superstar. How many of those superstars have been on a title winning team? I do understand than when these guys make mega millions to "play", they should produce. Maybe they just don't need to be paid so damn much. Then some money could go toward an arena. There's a thought.
Whenever I have posted before, it pretty much kills the topic, so I won't be surprised if this one gets booed right off the board either.
Go for it!!!
I'm not necessarily advocating trading anyone. I personally think that free agency has created a mess in the league. Example; Joe Johnson left a title contending team where he was a major contributor, because he could make more money in a year than a lot of us will make in a lifetime playing for a bottom feeder. Is it about winning or about making money.
Look at the teams of the past. They kept a team in tact and worked on it becoming a force instead of trading someone every time the team stubbed it's toe. In this day and age, no one has any patience or tolerance--the players or the fans. If we aren't a title contender this year, then we must get a superstar. How many of those superstars have been on a title winning team? I do understand than when these guys make mega millions to "play", they should produce. Maybe they just don't need to be paid so damn much. Then some money could go toward an arena. There's a thought.
Whenever I have posted before, it pretty much kills the topic, so I won't be surprised if this one gets booed right off the board either.
Go for it!!!
D
Hey man you make some great points. Its really to bad how things work these days in the NBA. I personally think they should of payed Divac the 4 million he was asking and kept Cristy and Bobby on the roster. Why try to reinvent the wheel.
I don't understand the point of getting rid of everyone and starting from scratch. I think some owners and GMs are way to impatient, want and need results like some CEO's for a company that is not making 100% profits. Everyone wants to win but at what price must the team and fans go through to get those wins.
I don't understand the point of getting rid of everyone and starting from scratch. I think some owners and GMs are way to impatient, want and need results like some CEO's for a company that is not making 100% profits. Everyone wants to win but at what price must the team and fans go through to get those wins.
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I liked Christie, Bobby and Vlade as much as anyone but you have to look at it this way. Vlade hurts his back 2 games into the preseason attempting to do a spin move. Christie plays about 10 games total after being traded and is on the verge of retiring because of bone spurs in his ankle. Bobby is still playing but is hurt again this year with a hamstring. Even though he is playing he is playing with an injury that is only going to get worse. These changes needed to be made. Some people don't want to except that we are rebuilding and all teams go through these times. Look at the Suns. They sucked 2 years ago but then they started to gel and acquired Nash. Now they are a power house.
I'll boo you -- having weatchned the NBA for a good 20 years now, I can say unequivocally that you are viewing the past through some sort of rose colored glasses. Teams traded just as much if not MORE in the past, restlessly shuffling players. And once upon a time did not even have to make the salaries match to make it happen. Only stupid teams sit on mediocrity. The teams that settle in are the ones with the core of a potential champion. Until the core is acquired, then they do, have, and should be constantly on the move trying to put one together.
D
No You are absolutely right about us rebuilding. Like you said after they acquired Nash who ended up being their glue. This is something that Kings desperately need. Vlade for example even though he was a center and slow and hurt, he was this glue. I wish maloofs would have given up 4 million. They gave to Ostertag thinking he was going to provide the dominance they needed, What happened there, actually that backfired. Instead of them giving it to Vlade so he can at least be the player/coach off the Bench it would of gave us much more success. Especially last year. Kings play with out heart because they have no one to play for. You look at players like Peja, God he was great to watch a few years ago up to the last year, but without a father figure like the rest of the team they have lost that spiritual motivation.
We can all argue about PPG and what combinations will do great but just like all the other GMs sometimes it requires luck or some vision to put that Vlade on the court. I guess I am glad I am not the GM because I would get rid of some players on the roster, but then realize its not because players are bad they are just not in the right atmosphere to prosper.
We can all argue about PPG and what combinations will do great but just like all the other GMs sometimes it requires luck or some vision to put that Vlade on the court. I guess I am glad I am not the GM because I would get rid of some players on the roster, but then realize its not because players are bad they are just not in the right atmosphere to prosper.
Ok, I've read a lot of crap on these boards in the past year or so but this is the one that finally made me put my foot down, join and chime in. Bibby is not the problem.
This team is bad. Very bad. So bad I'm upset with myself for spending the money on league pass when I have other options for how I can spend an evening. But no, I'm compelled to sit and watch every game possible and watch the trainwreck that is this season. We have a lot of problems, but I'll repeat, Bibby is not the problem.
Now in no way do I think the guy is untouchable, but what exactly are we going to get for Bibby? Right now, not much and it sure won't be as good as Bibby. So he blew two chances to win last night and his defense is weak. Defensive point guards are great but if we had any kind of inside game we wouldn't have to worry about someone getting through our first line of defense. Not to mention that while not as good as he was the past 2 seasons he's still a pretty solid contributor to the offense and that we have no suitable replacement for him. So if we trade him we have to trade him for a starting point guard and all our glaring deficiencies still remain. We also will be stuck running a playground offense for the remainder of the season.
As it stands we have three softies at the forward positions on defense. Shareef is locked in at a bargain contract so I think it would be a mistake to send him anywhere. He can also switch over to the SF position should we trade Peja for someone with more size and defensive ability. His biggest problem is size for the 4 spot, not effort.
That leaves two real problems: Peja and Brad. Peja is in a contract year and so he should be having an MVP like season to get his max deal, but the guy is playing himself into the MLE right now. He's been invisible in the fourth quarter almost all season yet we're supposed to be running the team around him. We need to get rid of him ASAP because his trade value isn't going up. Loved the guy for the past 7 or so years but its time to move on. If we can actually get something of value for him, do it before we don't have that chance.
Now Brad, what to say about him. Does anyone remember this guy BEFORE he was a King? The guy that played Shaq so tough Shaq threw punches and got himself suspended? I'm pretty sure that's why we brought him in, not because he was a lesser version of Vlade. If we had a better center and he could play the 4 spot that might be nice. He sure looked good when he was paired with Vlade in that roll. But now we've got a center that is losing jump balls to small forwards and making journeymen centers look like all stars. Now that's just disgusting. But at least we have options with him, get a real center, slide Brad down to the 4 and Shareef to the 3 and we'll have the size but probably not the quickness to properly defend most teams. Or we package him with Peja to get the needed front line strength to build around Bonzi, Reef and Bibby.
Then there's the whole Adelman situation. He's a lame duck at this point, but if we want to play ourselves into a lottery spot there's no harm keeping him. Unless it kills our chances of resigning Bonzi.
So... sorry for the long winded first post, but this one just grabbed me. Bibby is at the bottom of the list of long problems and moving him won't help us. Hopefully we will do something though to make the season at least worth watching.
This team is bad. Very bad. So bad I'm upset with myself for spending the money on league pass when I have other options for how I can spend an evening. But no, I'm compelled to sit and watch every game possible and watch the trainwreck that is this season. We have a lot of problems, but I'll repeat, Bibby is not the problem.
Now in no way do I think the guy is untouchable, but what exactly are we going to get for Bibby? Right now, not much and it sure won't be as good as Bibby. So he blew two chances to win last night and his defense is weak. Defensive point guards are great but if we had any kind of inside game we wouldn't have to worry about someone getting through our first line of defense. Not to mention that while not as good as he was the past 2 seasons he's still a pretty solid contributor to the offense and that we have no suitable replacement for him. So if we trade him we have to trade him for a starting point guard and all our glaring deficiencies still remain. We also will be stuck running a playground offense for the remainder of the season.
As it stands we have three softies at the forward positions on defense. Shareef is locked in at a bargain contract so I think it would be a mistake to send him anywhere. He can also switch over to the SF position should we trade Peja for someone with more size and defensive ability. His biggest problem is size for the 4 spot, not effort.
That leaves two real problems: Peja and Brad. Peja is in a contract year and so he should be having an MVP like season to get his max deal, but the guy is playing himself into the MLE right now. He's been invisible in the fourth quarter almost all season yet we're supposed to be running the team around him. We need to get rid of him ASAP because his trade value isn't going up. Loved the guy for the past 7 or so years but its time to move on. If we can actually get something of value for him, do it before we don't have that chance.
Now Brad, what to say about him. Does anyone remember this guy BEFORE he was a King? The guy that played Shaq so tough Shaq threw punches and got himself suspended? I'm pretty sure that's why we brought him in, not because he was a lesser version of Vlade. If we had a better center and he could play the 4 spot that might be nice. He sure looked good when he was paired with Vlade in that roll. But now we've got a center that is losing jump balls to small forwards and making journeymen centers look like all stars. Now that's just disgusting. But at least we have options with him, get a real center, slide Brad down to the 4 and Shareef to the 3 and we'll have the size but probably not the quickness to properly defend most teams. Or we package him with Peja to get the needed front line strength to build around Bonzi, Reef and Bibby.
Then there's the whole Adelman situation. He's a lame duck at this point, but if we want to play ourselves into a lottery spot there's no harm keeping him. Unless it kills our chances of resigning Bonzi.
So... sorry for the long winded first post, but this one just grabbed me. Bibby is at the bottom of the list of long problems and moving him won't help us. Hopefully we will do something though to make the season at least worth watching.
pdxKingsFan - First, welcome to the board.
If your posts are going to be that comprehensive, I certainly won't object to the length.
You've made some very good points and, unfortunately, I agree with most of them. I've said it before - this is a team made up of pieces that just don't fit.
I hope something like that happens. And sooner rather than later...
It's bad enough to love a team that stinks. It's really bad to love a team that hasn't been awful for quite a while and, all of sudden, you're flashing back to the mid-80s.
GO KINGS! (Through feast and famine, although feast is a lot more fun.)
If your posts are going to be that comprehensive, I certainly won't object to the length.
You've made some very good points and, unfortunately, I agree with most of them. I've said it before - this is a team made up of pieces that just don't fit.
I hope something like that happens. And sooner rather than later...
It's bad enough to love a team that stinks. It's really bad to love a team that hasn't been awful for quite a while and, all of sudden, you're flashing back to the mid-80s.
GO KINGS! (Through feast and famine, although feast is a lot more fun.)
S
Bibby needs to stay, all we need is a better coaching staff.... we would have been champions a long time ago if it wasnt for Rick ( He doesnt knw how to use starters and bench. He's burning dem on da floor, and worst of all he doesnt know when to call a good time out.. for god sake learn the basic Rick)... get rid of him and get an all star... that should solve it.
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Hi, guys i am new but i would just like to state my opinion on this subject. Personaly i would like to see the core of the big 3 gone. Out of the 3, bibby would be the last to leave. I would really love to see him traded for a guy like andre Miller and we could most likely get some body else in that deal too (which could help our bench maybe Watson but his contract is pretty long). Andre Miller bring a player that loves to pass and play solid D and is a pretty good defender.
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let me try to sum up the so call "Bibby's problem":
he is not a playmaker - he used to be a playmaker, but its the Kings'
offensive system not letting him to be the playmaker.
he can't play defense - most time he trys to help the inside defense and
therefore he leaves the opposing PG wideopen.
he takes too many last shot - who else is going to take? who really is the
better option? (I just can't agree Wells is a
better shooter)
I mentioned this in earler thread already..all he does is listening to the coach and doing what the coach expect him to do...
Am I the only one who think he is at the level of Steve Nash?
If Bibby goes to the Suns, he probably can average more than 8 assists easily....just my opinion
he is not a playmaker - he used to be a playmaker, but its the Kings'
offensive system not letting him to be the playmaker.
he can't play defense - most time he trys to help the inside defense and
therefore he leaves the opposing PG wideopen.
he takes too many last shot - who else is going to take? who really is the
better option? (I just can't agree Wells is a
better shooter)
I mentioned this in earler thread already..all he does is listening to the coach and doing what the coach expect him to do...
Am I the only one who think he is at the level of Steve Nash?
If Bibby goes to the Suns, he probably can average more than 8 assists easily....just my opinion
O
How the hell is bibby the problem?? He takes too many last shots?? How many of those does he actually make?? He's the only one that has the confidence to make them... All the other lame *** cats on our team are terrified to take the last second shots... Just ask christie and peja(those guys really have fond memories of that game 7 against the lakers).... Bonzis an exception; he's been great this year for us in nearly every category going from hustle to scoring to defense and to clutch abilities.... Bibbys been the only thing that has been good for the kings for the longest period of time.... Sure webber and vlade made him better, but why did we make such a giant leap into contention the first year we aquired bibby? Maybe its because he's a great player... Did that ever cross your mind? Maybe he made webber and vlade better... Did that ever cross your mind?...
Get rid of bibby? Yeah that's the way to go... We all miss webb, we all miss vlade, we all miss bobby, but if we traded bibby he'd be the one all of us miss the most.
Get rid of bibby? Yeah that's the way to go... We all miss webb, we all miss vlade, we all miss bobby, but if we traded bibby he'd be the one all of us miss the most.
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REMINDER: This board is about respect for other posters and making your comments civil and about the topic at hand AND NOT ridiculing or demeaning other members.
Lately, some of our members have seemed to forget this general concept that has made Kingsfans.com a great place to discuss hoops without resorting to name-calling, flame fests, personal attacks, etc.
It would be nice if people just tried a little harder to respect the opinions of other members. Yes, it's tough right now because our team is faltering. You don't have to agree with everything that's said on this board but you do have to respect the rights of others to post dissenting opinions without fear of ridicule, demeaning retorts, etc. (If you have a problem with a member or think their post is simply trolling, DO NOT comment on the board. Use the "refer a post" feature. It's the red exclamation point in the triangle. That's what it is for.)
Please, to everyone: Keep it civil. If you don't, your post is going to be deleted. We've worked very hard to create a friendly atmosphere here where people can come to talk hoops. It's not going to dissolve simply because the team is struggling.
Lately, some of our members have seemed to forget this general concept that has made Kingsfans.com a great place to discuss hoops without resorting to name-calling, flame fests, personal attacks, etc.
It would be nice if people just tried a little harder to respect the opinions of other members. Yes, it's tough right now because our team is faltering. You don't have to agree with everything that's said on this board but you do have to respect the rights of others to post dissenting opinions without fear of ridicule, demeaning retorts, etc. (If you have a problem with a member or think their post is simply trolling, DO NOT comment on the board. Use the "refer a post" feature. It's the red exclamation point in the triangle. That's what it is for.)
Please, to everyone: Keep it civil. If you don't, your post is going to be deleted. We've worked very hard to create a friendly atmosphere here where people can come to talk hoops. It's not going to dissolve simply because the team is struggling.
D
How do you expect him to be a playmaker when he doesn't have a slasher or post player to work with? Kind of hard to get assists when you don't have anybody who can finish around the basket. There isn't one person on the team who draws a double team or sucks the defense into the lane. Sorry but even Steve Nash couldn't do much with this group.
Sorry we have a nice post player in sar, Bibby chose not to pass it down low. He thinks he is A.I. but the problem he is not. Bibby is a sg in a point guards body, if we did have nash this team would be whole lot better because he is a pure point guard he thinks pass first shoot second.
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D
SAR isn't a good inside presence, not by the biggest stretch of the imagination. He plays better with with his face to the basket, and when he tries backing people down he turns the ball over like crazy. There is nobody to finish around the basket on the Kings, the SG is the best post player on the team! How sad is that?
Hey DaMan is your name George Defazio?
Hey DaMan is your name George Defazio?
The man has the second best fg avg in the NBA, he is our best post player, he coments the least amount of TOs in the starting lineup after peja, and he avg 16 points off only 11 shots and when he gets around 16 shoots he ususlly gets u 20 plus points. He and wells has pretty much been our best players so far this season. I think u are getting this just because shareef had a bad game today. And who the hell is George Defazio???
D
Don't get me wrong SAR isn't a bad player, I like him. I just don't think he's what this team needs as long as Brad Miller is playing along side of him. He silently plays pretty consistent, but his rebound is sorely lacking. I think Bibby and SAR would be much better players with a center that could play with his back to the basket. This team needs a solid post presence and slasher. Not that SAR isn't a solid player I just don't see him as a solid post presence, he doesn't suck in the defense at all.
BTW after reading 2 sentences of your last post I could tell you weren't George Defazio (because your post made sense), he posts at another Kings forum under the name DaMan. Did you come up with that screen name yourself or are you familiar with that other forum?
BTW after reading 2 sentences of your last post I could tell you weren't George Defazio (because your post made sense), he posts at another Kings forum under the name DaMan. Did you come up with that screen name yourself or are you familiar with that other forum?
