Ben working with Kings to find a new place to play?

[KingMilz]

Honestly who is Ben to demand a trade, it's players like this which is why we suck this guy has been given every CHANCE to show he's a starting caliber and instead of battling through he's like the rest of the core they quit. If he did demand a trade get rid of him point blank what's he complaining about at the start of the year he was horrendous and now being slightly better than Marco he thinks he should be playing more.

Sick of having weak minded players who never even give themselves a chance to play at there best same goes for Rudy and the rest of them aside from Omri/WCS/Acy/Kk

Honestly that's just pee weak.

 

[Bricklayer]

Honestly who is Ben to demand a trade, it's players like this which is why we suck this guy has been given every CHANCE to show he's a starting caliber and instead of battling through he's like the rest of the core they quit. If he did demand a trade get rid of him point blank what's he complaining about at the start of the year he was horrendous and now being slightly better than Marco he thinks he should be playing more.

Sick of having weak minded players who never even give themselves a chance to play at there best same goes for Rudy and the rest of them aside from Omri/WCS/Acy/Kk

Honestly that's just pee weak.

There really never was anything indicating he demanded a trade.

But there are 1000 softer in between cases. His agent says "hey Vlade, my client is not getting any time, if you don't see that changing, we'd appreciate it if you would consider moving him". Or, Vlade knows he needs to make a move, has seen Ben falling even further back, spoke with Karl, goes to Ben and say ok, I'm not sure I can promise you the long term spot, would you like to go elsewhere? Ben "working with Vlade" then becomes Ben being willing to sit out games with his "wrist injury" to make sure nothing happens.

There's a whole bunch of ground before we reach, Ben storms into Vlade's office and screaming "play me or trade me *****!!!"

 

[funkykingston]

I'd rather trade Marco.

And since there's seemingly no market for Kevin Martin maybe we offer Belinelli straight up.

Or if the Wolves don't want a SG in return or are just looking for cap room we make it a 3-team trade with a club looking for a bench shooter.

 

[Livinthedream]

My problem right now with trading anyone is if you're going to get a new coach and bring in a permanent GM, which is what is being reported (Woj), then why would the team be looking to make roster moves right now? Let the new GM and coach decide who they want to trade and who they want to trade for. We just can't get out of our own way.

 

[Dbeltz24]

Personally, it'd be tough to give up on Ben. He has shown flashes of being a good player and some games where you can see glimpses of greatness, but then goes on a stretch of games that make him look bad. Has to be hard for these young players to come into the circus that is the Kings front office. And while we do not know if he has asked specifically for a trade, you couldn't blame him for wanting a fresh start somewhere else.

And even tho I'm tough on DMC, he has a lot of mental strength because I do not think we've ever heard rumors of him wanting out.

 

[Amaranth]

Maybe we can trade Ben and get him back in a couple of years when he's better, a la Omri.

 

[Sac.1989]

bring in shump - he's been around wining and is an established 3 and D guy. Gives us solidarity moving forward.

Start him and bring belli off the bench, thats it for SG for us. If belli continues to struggle then collison will continue getting meaningful mins at the 2.

Those 3 give us enough talent at SG to get us to 8th

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd rather trade Marco.

And since there's seemingly no market for Kevin Martin maybe we offer Belinelli straight up.

Or if the Wolves don't want a SG in return or are just looking for cap room we make it a 3-team trade with a club looking for a bench shooter.

you can't draft this stuff:

 

[kupman]

I was done with Ben about 18 months ago. I don't expect any return for him. The only reason he is in the NBA is because the Kings exist. We have been abysmal at the 2.

 

[Livinthedream]

bring in shump - he's been around wining and is an established 3 and D guy. Gives us solidarity moving forward.

Start him and bring belli off the bench, thats it for SG for us. If belli continues to struggle then collison will continue getting meaningful mins at the 2.

Those 3 give us enough talent at SG to get us to 8th

3 and D? We're talking about Iman Shumpert. Which Shump are you talking about?

 

[DesertFox]

Shumpert isn't great, but he plays d and has some talent that isn't utilized with the Cavs.

For all the wishes for another Doug christie, he's not a bad comp. Misplaced as a pg early, now a defender/ spot up shooter next to the big 3. You wonder what he could do now as a secondary ball handler at the 2.

 

[Sac.1989]

3 and D? We're talking about Iman Shumpert. Which Shump are you talking about?

yeah the kids shooting the same as benny boy from 3 and is a much better defender.

They brought him to CLE for the sole purpose of 3 and D. He is an upgrade on ben

 

[KingMilz]

There really never was anything indicating he demanded a trade.

But there are 1000 softer in between cases. His agent says "hey Vlade, my client is not getting any time, if you don't see that changing, we'd appreciate it if you would consider moving him". Or, Vlade knows he needs to make a move, has seen Ben falling even further back, spoke with Karl, goes to Ben and say ok, I'm not sure I can promise you the long term spot, would you like to go elsewhere? Ben "working with Vlade" then becomes Ben being willing to sit out games with his "wrist injury" to make sure nothing happens.

There's a whole bunch of ground before we reach, Ben storms into Vlade's office and screaming "play me or trade me *****!!!"

The thread says Ben working with Kings which to me indicates he's given up he's pulling a Marcus Thornton
Vlade needs to put these guys in a room and ask who wants to be here who doesn't should be traded cause I think Kings fans have had enough of players/coaches never earning there paychecks.

 

[Livinthedream]

yeah the kids shooting the same as benny boy from 3 and is a much better defender.

They brought him to CLE for the sole purpose of 3 and D. He is an upgrade on ben

Ben is shooting 37% from 3. Shump is shooting 32%. That's not the same. Marco is shooting 29%. That would be your SG tandem. 32% and 29%. It would be no better that starting Anderson who is also shooting 32% from 3 and is our defensive stopper with grit. So I'm not seeing how this improves our team. Shumps D is good. But it's not lock down. So you're really going to be regressing with bringing him in. Then you might want to check out Shumps injury history and you not only get an incomplete player, but one that constantly misses games due to injury, but makes a ton more money than Ben. This would be a trade the team seriously regrets.

 

[Livinthedream]

The thread says Ben working with Kings which to me indicates he's given up he's pulling a Marcus Thornton

That's a big leap....

 

[Sac.1989]

Ben is shooting 37% from 3. Shump is shooting 32%. That's not the same. Marco is shooting 29%. That would be your SG tandem. 32% and 29%. It would be no better that starting Anderson who is also shooting 32% from 3 and is our defensive stopper with grit. So I'm not seeing how this improves our team. Shumps D is good. But it's not lock down. So you're really going to be regressing with bringing him in. Then you might want to check out Shumps injury history and you not only get an incomplete player, but one that constantly misses games due to injury, but makes a ton more money than Ben. This would be a trade the team seriously regrets.

look at the larger sample - over the course of there careers they both shoot at 34% from 3. I don't buy into the regressing argument.

id much rather lee or allen from MEM overall but we need consistency at SG and Shump offers that. If we could trade belli for him that would be more ideal.

 

[Livinthedream]

look at the larger sample - over the course of there careers they both shoot at 34% from 3. I don't buy into the regressing argument.

id much rather lee or allen from MEM overall but we need consistency at SG and Shump offers that. If we could trade belli for him that would be more ideal.

Shump has been steady at 34%. Shump has had one season over 34% 3pt shooting. Ben has had one season under 34% 3pt shooting. Pattern is Ben is getting better and Shump is what he is. Shump is consistently below average and it's not a good thing. Ever think why Cleveland would want to make this trade? We're not some how getting a steal. We're not tricking Cleveland.

Yes, trading Belli for him makes more sense, but I don't see that happening. We're going with vets on this team.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

My problem right now with trading anyone is if you're going to get a new coach and bring in a permanent GM, which is what is being reported (Woj), then why would the team be looking to make roster moves right now? Let the new GM and coach decide who they want to trade and who they want to trade for. We just can't get out of our own way.

agreed with ya. maybe vivek is still looking for the next klay and mentioned it to vlade.

 

[sdballer]

look at the larger sample - over the course of there careers they both shoot at 34% from 3. I don't buy into the regressing argument.

id much rather lee or allen from MEM overall but we need consistency at SG and Shump offers that. If we could trade belli for him that would be more ideal.

Ben's 3 year improvement- 32%, 36%, 37%
Iman's decline/stagnation- 30%, 40%, 33%, 34%, 32%

All on 1 less 3 per game. He isn't as good a shooter as Ben.

He's a much better defender but he's also paid between 9 and 11 Million/per year for 3 more years and he can't stay healthy. At all.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Trading Ben for another veteran might improve our chances to get into the playoffs this year slightly (although most veterans are simply lateral moves), but we would sacrifice growth potential and shorten our window for possible playoff runs.
Ben is right there in between the leagues average shooting guards. And I think the frustration of being a losing team once again tends to cloud our vision.
How about finally developing some players instead of throwing away another lottery pick? Ben has improved despite the instability and incompetence of the Kings. I would expect him to improve even more in a stable environment and with a good players development coach.
Maybe we should think about kidnapping the guys, that worked with Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and Steph, instead of trading away Ben.
If there is one thing I want from the Warriors, than it's their players development personell.
Because our inability to teach young players won't end with Ben. Willie is next in line....

 

[gunks]

If we trade Ben to the Spurs, he'll probably end up Kawhi-lite.

I still think he has really good two way potential, but he definitely needs guidance.... Which he isn't going to get from Mr. "Practices are optional" Karl.

It's a shame that we're trading him away (maybe), but still have that senile hack as a HC....

.... And this is coming from a guy who isn't even a big fan of Ben.

 

[Boogie_Fever]

Trading Ben for another veteran might improve our chances to get into the playoffs this year slightly (although most veterans are simply lateral moves), but we would sacrifice growth potential and shorten our window for possible playoff runs.
Ben is right there in between the leagues average shooting guards. And I think the frustration of being a losing team once again tends to cloud our vision.
How about finally developing some players instead of throwing away another lottery pick? Ben has improved despite the instability and incompetence of the Kings. I would expect him to improve even more in a stable environment and with a good players development coach.
Maybe we should think about kidnapping the guys, that worked with Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and Steph, instead of trading away Ben.
If there is one thing I want from the Warriors, than it's their players development personell.
Because our inability to teach young players won't end with Ben. Willie is next in line....

Which should speak volumes about Boogie developing into the best big man in the league DESPITE it all.

 

[randymoss1881]

Evan Fournier will be our starting SG next year and we will all love it.

 

[The_Jamal]

One thing with Iman is he's just 25 still. Conceivable that he has some growth in his game left, or at least refine what he has going now. And like Ben, he's never really had a chance at being a 30+ MPG guy and always been stuck behind someone.

Like WCS, he's also a guy where you have to ignore individual box score stats. Here are a few stand-out numbers:

6th in DRPM among SG's,
13th among all guards

Cavs Opponent ORTG:

ON-- 100.8

Off- 104.3

44% Opponent FG when defending. Normally 44.7%

Now some of these are likely inflated because Cleveland is an excellent defensive team, but when just about every metric is telling you a guy is a good defender... he's a good defender. Also matches up with the eye-test that he's very good on that side of the ball.

And how good of a shooter Ben is compared to Shumpert almost doesn't matter at this point. Ben is completely a lost cog in our offense and is making 0.9 3s/game this season.... We can certainly argue (and I'd agree with) that we've severely underutilized him, but he's easily the most replaceable player on offense because he's a ghost out there. Not a playmaker, low USG, doesn't crash the glass etc.

We're also at the point now where you have to think long-term with Ben. What's he going to show with us in the next year and a half that we haven't seen in the past 2 and a half seasons? Are we going to commit to him at 5-6 mil a season or lose yet another asset for nothing? I've wanted it to click, but we're at 178 starts+ 5800 minutes now and we're still at the point of hoping he'll "get it."

Iman's not the perfect piece at the 2-guard and I cringe at the prospect of him and Rondo floor spacing together, but he'll make a significant improvement to the worst guard defense in the NBA, he's still just 25, has playoff/big game experience, and is locked into a reasonable deal long-term. We can't complain about having an atrocious defense and then scoff at a guy who would improve it for a reasonable cost.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ben is right there in between the leagues average shooting guards.

No, he's really not. And he's lacking exactly the confidence and moxie that winners have. I severely doubt he'll ever have it. But for current purposes what matters is that you could absolutely 100% get more of it in a trade.

Just as importantly, if Ben is an average shooting guard, then he's completely replaceable. You can sign average players every summer. You can do it even if you suck -- over the last few summer we have signed average or above average PGs, a SG, a C, a SF. Let alone if you get a little winning going.

The annual, "oh how can we give up on the failed draft pick!?!" thing is just silly. That's what you do with failed draft picks. In fact if you hang onto them long enough that they lose whatever value they once had, you suck as a franchise and aren't maximizing your chances.

Its got absolutely nothing to do with "not developing youth". We actually developed our youthful talent just fine -- Tyreke and IT were as good when they left us as they ever became. Cuz is now the league's best center. Our problem is we drafted like crap and so rarely lucked into true young talent. You can't develop what's not there, unless you think sitting around and hanging onto Thomas Robinson, Jimmer, Nik etc. would somehow have made them into non-scrubs. What would have made them into non-scrubs would have been drafting Andre Drummond, Kawhi Leonard, and Efrid Payton instead.

As far as WCS -- he's an actual young talent, and has already flashed better stuff as a rookie than any rookie of ours has since IT at least, and possibly since Cuz. He'll be fine.

 

[Kings_of_California]

He's not worth anything in a trade, so I'm not sure what purpose this would actually serve.

I would rather just continue to try and develop him. Give him the ball and let him launch.

I just really want to see what we actually have. It's foggy right now, but the potential is there.

Knowing us, he will get traded and immediately start posting efficient 16 PPG contests.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's a big leap....

That's hella more diplomatic than I would have put it.

 

[Chubbs]

Just aggravates me that someone like Ben, who has largely been a disappointment thus far in his career, can complain about a lack of playing time this season as if he is the next Kobe/MJ. What happened to earning things in life and working hard? Or looking yourself in the mirror and saying "hey... maybe I don't deserve as many minutes as I think I should be getting." Sure, there have been times when Ben should have been playing instead of Marco, but honestly between the two of them it's sort of a pick your poison type of thing.

Wait, this makes you mad at Ben?!

I'm happy for him. I'd be shocked if it's not a lot more than just Ben and Butler asking out. This is the most poorly run franchise in sports. We've got two NBA players sitting on our bench waiting to get traded.

Er, I mean, Ben is hurt. Or something. Right.

This is what happens. Over and over and over again. This is just the start. Wait till rondo takes his league leading assists elsewhere. And Rudy asks out.

Demarcus seems to the the only guy with any loyalty, and the fans are doing their best to give him a lift out of town too.

I'm happy for Ben and sad he had to put up with this franchise as long as he did. I'll never understand why Boogie puts up with it. I'd have been long gone.

This fan base is very confused right now. Very very confused. When the fan base blames the players for things out of their control, you're going to get a flood of guys wanting out. Ailene hinted at it. She blames Cuz, but that's not what this is. And it's not what the Butler situation is either.

Karl and Valde were given orders to make the playoffs this year. Both of their jobs are on the line right now. Big time.

Vivek has never thought beyond the next week or so. This is all him. Again.

 

[dude12]

If, and I say if, Ben asked to be traded, then ship him out when a deal works in our favor. Dude is not that good and he's been given playing time early in his career....I repeat given PT in his first couple of years.

 

[Chubbs]

If, and I say if, Ben asked to be traded, then ship him out when a deal works in our favor. Dude is not that good and he's been given playing time early in his career....I repeat given PT in his first couple of years.

One thing we still have going for us as a franchise is that it's so incompetent, so impulsive, so completely in disarray top to bottom, that there will be teams who think Ben's struggles are due to playing for the Sacramento King's. They forget these players were also drafted by the Sacramento Kings.

It's the only explanation for a team actually wanting Nik Stauskas. We'll see the same here. This time they might even be right. As for the sixers, they're looking to improve the SG position still cause Nik is really that bad.

Cutting Ben's shots attempts by 40% (10.1 to 6.2) THEN trying to trade him is classic King's. Selling high never seems to cross anyone's minds.