Ben should ask for a trade

[gman23]

I know everyone here think its crazy. But he will NOT get the opportunity to shine behind Cousins, Gay and Collison. I want Ben to do well in the NBA , I just think this is not the right team. A team like the Pacers, Orlando and other teams lacking quality players would turn Ben into an all-star player. I been watching him cutting backdoor and no passes from Gay or Collison. I've seen him play hard than watch other players play one on one basketball. I'm sure most of you have seen the same thing, Ben impresses the hell out of me when he's giving the chance.

Okay everyone let's hear it...

 

[kingsboi]

are second year players allowed to ask for trades?

 

[Sac.1989]

this is another reason why we really needed to hire our long term coach after ridding Malone. You can afford to ship 3/4 of a season. Ours players are literally working it out for themselves out there and bens someone who has regressed not getting the touches and looks he was under malone yet the effort hasnt changed

 

[KingMilz]

Yeah I honestly feel sorry for Ben, the chucking from the Gay Cousins duo of lately has been ridiculous and it seems like Darren Collison no longer gives a crap about team basketball and has started chucking himself. I hope they do trade Ben for Ben's sake.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

are second year players allowed to ask for trades?

There aren't rules on the subject. This includes the team having a player who requests a trade not having any obligation to trade them whatsoever.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

What's wrong with you people? I hope Ben stays on the Kings, continues to grow, and carves out a successful career as a two-way threat in this league for a long time.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ben's not good enough to ask for a trade.

He does however have to pick his game up, and its become increasingly clear that the attempt to integrate him made early in the season has fallen by the wayside. Not that I would spend much time kicking it to a sub-40% shooter either.

 

[gman23]

I would love to keep him on this team, but like I said he probably won't shine as long as Gay, Cousins and Collison continue their shot selections and no team ball.

 

[VF21]

I know everyone here think its crazy. But he will NOT get the opportunity to shine behind Cousins, Gay and Collison. I want Ben to do well in the NBA , I just think this is not the right team. A team like the Pacers, Orlando and other teams lacking quality players would turn Ben into an all-star player. I been watching him cutting backdoor and no passes from Gay or Collison. I've seen him play hard than watch other players play one on one basketball. I'm sure most of you have seen the same thing, Ben impresses the hell out of me when he's giving the chance.

Okay everyone let's hear it...

Ben can be an integral part of the Kings. Bibby, Christie, Peja, Webber and Divac all found a way to shine. It's about having a coach who is able to get them to play as a TEAM.

 

[VF21]

Yeah I honestly feel sorry for Ben, the chucking from the Gay Cousins duo of lately has been ridiculous and it seems like Darren Collison no longer gives a poopoo about team basketball and has started chucking himself. I hope they do trade Ben for Ben's sake.

You're dumping on either Rudy, Boogie (or now Collison) at almost every juncture. At some point, it ceases to be entertaining, or thought-provoking or a stimulus to conversation. What about the Kings IF ANYTHING do you like?

 

[9x1x6]

Try Corbin has no time to develop talent since he has to worry about his job every ****ing night. This is horrible for Boogie/Ben/ Nik careers.

 

[DesertFox]

There existed a time when it looked like he could exist on this team.
Of course, things changed.
Honestly, who on this team shouldn't ask for a trade?

 

[KingMilz]

You're dumping on either Rudy, Boogie (or now Collison) at almost every juncture. At some point, it ceases to be entertaining, or thought-provoking or a stimulus to conversation. What about the Kings IF ANYTHING do you like?

Right now what is there to like can you tell me? Nothing we are doing right now is going to lead to long or short term success of any form (unless you considering tanking to retain our draft pick as a step to long term success). What is there to like about how the players are playing and how they are being coached?

 

[VF21]

Try Corbin has no time to develop talent since he has to worry about his job every ****ing night. This is horrible for Boogie/Ben/ Nik careers.

No, Corbin isn't worried about his job.

1. PDA has made it clear the Kings are not going to hire another HC before the end of the season.
2. At this point, Corbin would probably welcome being cut lose as he knows he's a lame duck.

 

[VF21]

Right now what is there to like can you tell me? Nothing we are doing right now is going to lead to long or short term success of any form (unless you considering tanking to retain our draft pick as a step to long term success). What is there to like about how the players are playing and how they are being coached?

So basically you cannot answer me?

 

[upinsmoke]

Ben can be an integral part of the Kings. Bibby, Christie, Peja, Webber and Divac all found a way to shine. It's about having a coach who is able to get them to play as a TEAM.

He's going to have to be if we're going to be any good. Yes Ben has improved this season but he still has a LOONG way to go to be a impact player. I actually like the way he fits in as sort of a pressure release when Cuz and Rudy demand the opposing D's attention he can keep the floor spread and run the break. He needs to add more weight and combined with more experience he will become a defensive presence.

 

[Ugolino]

Yeah I honestly feel sorry for Ben, the chucking from the Gay Cousins duo of lately has been ridiculous and it seems like Darren Collison no longer gives a poopoo about team basketball and has started chucking himself. I hope they do trade Ben for Ben's sake.

Feel sorry? Really? I'd gladly trade jobs with him.

 

[andjel]

My first thought when I read the title was that Ben should ask for a trade .... that would bring starting level SG to the Kings and let him go to the bench where he belongs for now.

 

[lawlman91]

He's doing fine and knows his role on the team. Coach Corbin needs to run more plays for Ben, though. If we aren't going to make the post-season, why not give Ben some experience?

 

[pshn80]

Ben is a tough questionn for me. The ideal situation for Ben would be to play behind a veteran SG. We don't have one. We need one with some talent - play defense well, pass, move wit hour the ball, hit an open jumper. The team, right now, needs better play from the SG position. I don't feel sorry for Ben, he's been getting great experience which has and does come at great expense to the play of the team. Experience he would not have gotten on any other team.

 

[bajaden]

Let me give you some stats in reference to Ben.

1st year: 21.3 mpg - 8.4 ppg - 37.8% fgp - 32.0% 3pp.
2nd year: 23.6 mpg - 11.9 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 37.5% 3pp

Some improvement in the second year, but overall, nothing to write home about. Those are Peja's stats from his first two years, not Ben's. Here are Peja's stats from his 3rd year.

3rd year: 38.7 mpg - 20.4 ppg - 47.0% fgp - 40.0% 3pp

Now that is something to write home about. In general it takes about three years for a player to become what his potential says he should become. And if I may remind you, Peja played pro ball in europe since he was 16 years old. Here's Ben's stats for the first year and so far this year. See if you can see some comparisons.

1st year: 26.4 mpg - 8.8 ppg - 37.6% fgp - 32.0 3pp
2nd year: 33.0 mpg - 11.8 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 35.3% 3pp

Except for playing more overall minutes, the stats are very similar. Knowing what you know about Peja in retrospect, do you really want to trade McLemore? We're like the wine maker who is desperate for money, so he keeps picking the grapes too early, bottling them, and putting an inferior product on the market. You have to wait for the grapes to ripen. Or not!

 

[pshn80]

Let me give you some stats in reference to Ben.

1st year: 21.3 mpg - 8.4 ppg - 37.8% fgp - 32.0% 3pp.
2nd year: 23.6 mpg - 11.9 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 37.5% 3pp

Some improvement in the second year, but overall, nothing to write home about. Those are Peja's stats from his first two years, not Ben's. Here are Peja's stats from his 3rd year.

3rd year: 38.7 mpg - 20.4 ppg - 47.0% fgp - 40.0% 3pp

Now that is something to write home about. In general it takes about three years for a player to become what his potential says he should become. And if I may remind you, Peja played pro ball in europe since he was 16 years old. Here's Ben's stats for the first year and so far this year. See if you can see some comparisons.

1st year: 26.4 mpg - 8.8 ppg - 37.6% fgp - 32.0 3pp
2nd year: 33.0 mpg - 11.8 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 35.3% 3pp

Except for playing more overall minutes, the stats are very similar. Knowing what you know about Peja in retrospect, do you really want to trade McLemore? We're like the wine maker who is desperate for money, so he keeps picking the grapes too early, bottling them, and putting an inferior product on the market. You have to wait for the grapes to ripen. Or not!

Baka, those numbers are encouraging for Ben's long run potential. But team-wise, I don't want to go through the rest of the year of Ben's play as a starter. Are the Kings anywhere near where they should be now - no, not in my opinion, how about the rest of you? Besides team organization issues which are a biggie, I believe starting Ben is right up there as one of the main reasons we are not doing well. At this point we really don't have a choice with our current roster. I don't want to get rid of Ben, I want the team to trade for a better starter now and let Ben develop off the bench. I must be alone with this view because I haven't of others that share the view.

 

[Bricklayer]

Let me give you some stats in reference to Ben.

1st year: 21.3 mpg - 8.4 ppg - 37.8% fgp - 32.0% 3pp.
2nd year: 23.6 mpg - 11.9 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 37.5% 3pp

Some improvement in the second year, but overall, nothing to write home about. Those are Peja's stats from his first two years, not Ben's. Here are Peja's stats from his 3rd year.

3rd year: 38.7 mpg - 20.4 ppg - 47.0% fgp - 40.0% 3pp

Now that is something to write home about. In general it takes about three years for a player to become what his potential says he should become. And if I may remind you, Peja played pro ball in europe since he was 16 years old. Here's Ben's stats for the first year and so far this year. See if you can see some comparisons.

1st year: 26.4 mpg - 8.8 ppg - 37.6% fgp - 32.0 3pp
2nd year: 33.0 mpg - 11.8 ppg - 44.8% fgp - 35.3% 3pp

Except for playing more overall minutes, the stats are very similar. Knowing what you know about Peja in retrospect, do you really want to trade McLemore? We're like the wine maker who is desperate for money, so he keeps picking the grapes too early, bottling them, and putting an inferior product on the market. You have to wait for the grapes to ripen. Or not!

That bit about the minutes played is kind of critical though.

Peja got better his 3rd year from his second, but mostly we just made him a full time starter and the big minutes explained the big bump in scoring.

Per 36 minutes:
Peja 2nd year: 18.1pts 5.7reb 2.2ast
Peja 3rd year: 18.9pts 5.4reb 2.0ast

Ben 2nd year: 12.6pts 3.4reb 1.7ast

So with Ben to get any sort of Peja explosion its not just about giving him more minutes -- 2nd year Peja was far more prolific. With Ben you actually either need Ben to significantly improve again, or you need an entire team restructuring/offense built around him, which isn't going to happen. I still see no point in getting rid of him though. he;s one of 4 pieces that mostly make sense. I would however trade for a steady veteran shooter to pair with him though. He continues to struggle, I'd give the minutes to the steady guy. Just too much pressure being put on the Big 2 1/2 every night. Need trustworthy help.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I was actually shocked by Ben's play early this season, not because his scoring improved but because of his defense. A 2 guard who can score is only as valuable as his numbers when compared to the next guy. BUT a 2 guard who can lock down will always have a job, and if he can score the ball his stock goes up. With inconsistent scoring and a weak long ball Ben HAS to shift back to making the other guy miserable to be worth keeping on the court for any team. I would LOVE to see him develop into a hard nosed defense first guy, and it seemed to me that he was on that track until "The Night of the Rodent" when Malone was axed.

 

[gunks]

Everyone on the team should ask for a trade.

 

[Bricklayer]

I was actually shocked by Ben's play early this season, not because his scoring improved but because of his defense. A 2 guard who can score is only as valuable as his numbers when compared to the next guy. BUT a 2 guard who can lock down will always have a job, and if he can score the ball his stock goes up. With inconsistent scoring and a weak long ball Ben HAS to shift back to making the other guy miserable to be worth keeping on the court for any team. I would LOVE to see him develop into a hard nosed defense first guy, and it seemed to me that he was on that track until "The Night of the Rodent" when Malone was axed.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I love how you used the RiffTrax poster instead of an actual film poster. Too bad it was never on MST3K proper.

 

[bajaden]

That bit about the minutes played is kind of critical though.

Peja got better his 3rd year from his second, but mostly we just made him a full time starter and the big minutes explained the big bump in scoring.

Per 36 minutes:
Peja 2nd year: 18.1pts 5.7reb 2.2ast
Peja 3rd year: 18.9pts 5.4reb 2.0ast

Ben 2nd year: 12.6pts 3.4reb 1.7ast

So with Ben to get any sort of Peja explosion its not just about giving him more minutes -- 2nd year Peja was far more prolific. With Ben you actually either need Ben to significantly improve again, or you need an entire team restructuring/offense built around him, which isn't going to happen. I still see no point in getting rid of him though. he;s one of 4 pieces that mostly make sense. I would however trade for a steady veteran shooter to pair with him though. He continues to struggle, I'd give the minutes to the steady guy. Just too much pressure being put on the Big 2 1/2 every night. Need trustworthy help.

I don't disagree, and I knew someone would bring up the per numbers. It's not a perfect comparison, but my overall point is that sometimes, maybe too many times, we give up on players too soon. There aren't any guarantees, but it doesn't always pay off when you sell short. Personally I'd rather trade away a player that I know has reached his potential. But hey, doesn't mean I wouldn't trade Ben if the right deal came along. The only player on the team that's untouchable to me is Cousins. The way I look at a player is, is he replaceable? Is there another player in the league that I could get that can do all the things Cousins does? And to my mind, the answer is no. Rudy Gay? The answer is yes, but were talking just a few select players at that position. After that, there's quite a drop off. Ben might develop into the Gay catagory and he might not. But I'd like to feel sure he won't, before trading him.

Here's a question for you. Purely hypothetical of course. How much better do you think Ben would be in this his second year, if he were playing on the same team with Webber, Vlade, Bibby, and Peja? It was a group of guys that really shared the ball. Just asking...

 

[bajaden]

LOL!

 

[KingsFanSince85]

That bit about the minutes played is kind of critical though.

Peja got better his 3rd year from his second, but mostly we just made him a full time starter and the big minutes explained the big bump in scoring.

Per 36 minutes:
Peja 2nd year: 18.1pts 5.7reb 2.2ast
Peja 3rd year: 18.9pts 5.4reb 2.0ast

Ben 2nd year: 12.6pts 3.4reb 1.7ast

A factor you aren't considering is that 2nd/3rd year Peja played on a veteran heavy team that happen to be one of the best passing teams in recent memory. Peja got the ball a lot more than Ben does now and in spots where he could be most successful. That doesn't happen much for Ben in this offense.

Ben likely would have flourished playing with the same team Peja did. Lots of dunks, layups and open 3's.