Bee: In heavy trading...

[SacTownKid]

Kirk isn't enough to replace Bibby with. No way. Tyson would be a good addition to what we have currently, but in no way is he anywhere on Bibbys level. I have watched Tyson for years and he is coming into his own but he is not a star player.

 

[Kings113]

Kirk is damn good, his playoffs were great too.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kirk isn't enough to replace Bibby with. No way. Tyson would be a good addition to what we have currently, but in no way is he anywhere on Bibbys level. I have watched Tyson for years and he is coming into his own but he is not a star player.

I think is again where Kings fans sometimes have overinflated opinions of thier own guys. I like Mike. Think he is pretty much the best thing we have going. That said, he is not THAT much better than Hinrich, who is already a good starting PG (or even playing at OG) in this league and plays MUCH better defense. Let alone when you throw in Tyson Chandler, who may never make an All Star game because of his lack of offense, but has emerged as a big time force on defesne and the boards. And both are still young enough to improve.

 

[Kings113]

No confirmation of the Jason Hart deal yet?

http://www.nba.com/transactions/current_month_transactions.html

 

[SacTownKid]

I think is again where Kings fans sometimes have overinflated opinions of thier own guys. I like Mike. Think he is pretty much the best thing we have going. That said, he is not THAT much better than Hinrich, who is already a good starting PG (or even playing at OG) in this league and plays MUCH better defense. Let alone when you throw in Tyson Chandler, who may never make an All Star game because of his lack of offense, but has emerged as a big time force on defesne and the boards. And both are still young enough to improve.

IMO Kirk is quite a step down from Bibby. I like Kirk, and I watch the Bulls in large part b/c of he and Tyson, but I would think that trading Bibby for Tyson/Kirk, while it wouldn't be all that bad of a deal, wouldn't get us closer to a championship. If we did such a deal, I think it would be a sign of blowing the WHOLE team up. Kirk is still 3-4 years away from developing, and Tyson is eternally raw, but a very good role player. So if a deal like that was made, I would prefer the Kings to just let Peja walk, trade Brad, and enjoy the lottery for the next few seasons.

 

[nbrans]

IMO Kirk is quite a step down from Bibby. I like Kirk, and I watch the Bulls in large part b/c of he and Tyson, but I would think that trading Bibby for Tyson/Kirk, while it wouldn't be all that bad of a deal, wouldn't get us closer to a championship. If we did such a deal, I think it would be a sign of blowing the WHOLE team up. Kirk is still 3-4 years away from developing, and Tyson is eternally raw, but a very good role player. So if a deal like that was made, I would prefer the Kings to just let Peja walk, trade Brad, and enjoy the lottery for the next few seasons.

I agree SacTownKid, he's a pretty large step down from Bibby. We already had a point guard here that shot less than 40% and it made me want to pull my hair out. I'd rather that another one of the Baby Bulls were included with Chandler, and I actually have faith that Hart could start.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree SacTownKid, he's a pretty large step down from Bibby. We already had a point guard here that shot less than 40% and it made me want to pull my hair out. I'd rather that another one of the Baby Bulls were included with Chandler, and I actually have faith that Hart could start.

Now see, that last statement just makes no sense. You would rather Jason Hart start than Kirk Hinrich?

This isn't that ridiculous Sacto shooting fetish popping up again is it? Let alone for Jason Hart, who really is NOT a good shooter. Nor a good starter BTW.

 

[nbrans]

Now see, that last statement just makes no sense. You would rather Jason Hart start than Kirk Hinrich?

This isn't that ridiculous Sacto shooting fetish popping up again is it? Let alone for Jason Hart, who really is NOT a good shooter. Nor a good starter BTW.

That's not what I meant. I'd rather get someone else from the Bulls, such as Nocioni or Deng along with Chandler and start Hart. I just think that given my choice of two Bulls Hinrich wouldn't be one of the two.

P.S. Here are Hart's numbers as a starter:
10.9 ppg, 6.9 apg, 2.7 rpg, 1.19 spg, 2.0 to, 42% FG, 33% 3PG, 81% FT

Not stellar, not terrible.

 

[Padrino]

That's not what I meant. I'd rather get someone else from the Bulls, such as Nocioni or Deng along with Chandler and start Hart. I just think that given my choice of two Bulls Hinrich wouldn't be one of the two.

well, i could get a good look at a t-bone by sticking my head up a bull's...

oops

sorry

wrong conversaton

 

[AleksandarN]

That's not what I meant. I'd rather get someone else from the Bulls, such as Nocioni or Deng along with Chandler and start Hart. I just think that given my choice of two Bulls Hinrich wouldn't be one of the two.

P.S. Here are Hart's numbers as a starter:
10.9 ppg, 6.9 apg, 2.7 rpg, 1.19 spg, 2.0 to, 42% FG, 33% 3PG, 81% FT

Not stellar, not terrible.

Why would you want a starter and back up instead of getting two starters who are very young. I would rather have a young starter at PG and PF then having the alternative.

 

[AleksandarN]

IMO Kirk is quite a step down from Bibby. I like Kirk, and I watch the Bulls in large part b/c of he and Tyson, but I would think that trading Bibby for Tyson/Kirk, while it wouldn't be all that bad of a deal, wouldn't get us closer to a championship. If we did such a deal, I think it would be a sign of blowing the WHOLE team up. Kirk is still 3-4 years away from developing, and Tyson is eternally raw, but a very good role player. So if a deal like that was made, I would prefer the Kings to just let Peja walk, trade Brad, and enjoy the lottery for the next few seasons.

What do you think we have been doing the last 2 years. Only Bibby and Pedja remain from the 2002 squad. I think that is could be considered as blowing up the team. I do not think trading Bibby would be anything different.

 

[Kings113]

Hinrich's gonna be one of the best PGs in the years to come, already proven he's good.

 

[nbrans]

Why would you want a starter and back up instead of getting two starters who are very young. I would rather have a young starter at PG and PF then having the alternative.

Well, then you trade Peja. It's all part of a master plan. Or something.

Honestly, I just feel that if Bibby were traded I'd rather it be with another team. I like Chandler but I wouldn't be very happy with Hinrich as a PG, even if you and Bricklayer are right that he'd probably make the most sense in the context of that trade.

I'd rather have Andre Miller/Nene in a trade with Denver.

 

[AleksandarN]

I'm still very fuzzy on why they would. the Peja to Chicago idea always were based on Peja's connection to Skiles, somewhat on the Serb population in the area, and on the idea that maybe the Bulls need a prolific shooter/scorer to take the next step. But Mike has noen of those advantages. Obviously I would love to get Heinrich (who I apologize to for calling a scrub a month into his rookie season) and Chandler -- my two favorite Bulls players. But I have to squint real hard to see the upside for the Bulls themselves.

I think it could work if we sweeten up the pot(maybe a couple of draft picks) and if Chandler and the Bulls can not come up aggreement on contract then there is some hope, not much but some.

 

[AleksandarN]

Well, then you trade Peja. It's all part of a master plan. Or something.

Honestly, I just feel that if Bibby were traded I'd rather it be with another team. I like Chandler but I wouldn't be very happy with Hinrich as a PG, even if you and Bricklayer are right that he'd probably make the most sense in the context of that trade.

I'd rather have Andre Miller/Nene in a trade with Denver.

You want Andre and Nene instead of Hinrich and Chandler? Talent wise it does not come close and on top that the Bulls trade helps us more than what Denver trade can. The idea of trading our core is not just for the sake of change it is to help out the team were we need it more and also to help the team in the future aswell.

 

[Padrino]

i'd hate to part with bibby, even in a chandler/hinrich trade. but, if i were the GM of the kings, i would give it some serious consideration. it would solve several of our problems, and would add to a kings youth movement.

 

[nbrans]

You want Andre and Nene instead of Hinrich and Chandler? Talent wise it does not come close and on top that the Bulls trade helps us more than what Denver trade can. The idea of trading our core is not just for the sake of change it is to help out the team were we need it more and also to help the team in the future aswell.

I think that's very debatable. I do think you can make a case that Hinrich and Chandler have more raw talent, but if you're talking about making a run for a championship with Peja and Miller as the remaining core I think you have to go for talent that's a little more mature. Andre Miller is a proven point guard, Nene is a very promising big man with nearly as much raw talent and athleticism as Chandler. I'm not saying that it's a clear cut differnce, but I think that I'd take Miller and Nene.

 

[Padrino]

well, it depends on what ya really want. chandler/hinrich is, for all intents and purposes, a defensive combo. andre miller/nene is, for all intents and purposes, an offensive combo, though with limited defensive abilities. with the offensively talented peja, miller, and bonzi occupying 3 of the starting spots, i woudl, personally, make the defensive trade.

C - miller
PF - chandler
SF - stojakovic
SG - wells
PG - hinrich

this is a nice balance of offensive and defensive players, and all within the starting 5. not to mention it is a relatively young lineup. if these were the kings walking onto the court in november, i would be pretty pleased, though i still would hate to lose mike bibby.

 

[AleksandarN]

I think that's very debatable. I do think you can make a case that Hinrich and Chandler have more raw talent, but if you're talking about making a run for a championship with Peja and Miller as the remaining core I think you have to go for talent that's a little more mature. Andre Miller is a proven point guard, Nene is a very promising big man with nearly as much raw talent and athleticism as Chandler. I'm not saying that it's a clear cut differnce, but I think that I'd take Miller and Nene.

Miller and Nene are not more proven than Hinrich and Chandler. All you have to do is look at the playoffs for both of them. I do not think Miller is better than Hinrich and Chandler is way better than Nene so if you look at this way the Bulls deal is still better.

 

[nbrans]

well, it depends on what ya really want. chandler/hinrich is, for all intents and purposes, a defensive combo. andre miller/nene is, for all intents and purposes, an offensive combo, though with limited defensive abilities. with the offensively talented peja, miller, and bonzi occupying 3 of the starting spots, i woudl, personally, make the defensive trade.

C - miller
PF - chandler
SF - stojakovic
SG - wells
PG - hinrich

this is a nice balance of offensive and defensive players, and all within the starting 5. not to mention it is a relatively young lineup. if these were the kings walking onto the court in november, i would be pretty pleased, though i still would hate to lose mike bibby.

Yeah, that's a really great point, and I think you've swayed me to your side.

As long as Hinrich doesn't take more than 10 shots a game I'm on board.

P.S. That starting lineup would also put the Kings back in contention for the All-Ugly award.

 

[SacTownKid]

What do you think we have been doing the last 2 years. Only Bibby and Pedja remain from the 2002 squad. I think that is could be considered as blowing up the team. I do not think trading Bibby would be anything different.

In case you didn't know the team was "blown up" with a new core of Bibby, Miller, and Peja in mind.

 

[VF21]

In case you didn't know the team was "blown up" with a new core of Bibby, Miller, and Peja in mind.

Nobody knows for sure. All we know is that Petrie and the Maloofs have talked about the core of "Bibby, Brad and Peja" - that could mean the core as it is at this moment. It doesn't necessarily say anything about the future.

NO GM in his right mind would say something like, "Well, we do have a core of Mike, Brad and Peja, but we're trying our best to move at least one of them to solve our PF problem." Does that mean he's not looking for a way to better the team? Nope. It just means he's not going to say so in public. To do so would be shooting himself AND the Kings in the foot.

 

[TheRaven]

Right, it is in Petrie's best interest to call Mike, Brad, and Peja our "core." Whether he actually believes they are our core and is trying to build around them or not is a whole other issue.

In my opinion, one possibility is that he is using this to produce a win-win situation. Petrie has proven himself to be a shrewd manipulator and negotiator and I think he opens up several avenues by taking this stance.

If all another team hears is that we are committed to them, if they are interested in one of our core they will be nudged into offering more than they perhaps would otherwise. Then he can say how it was just too good a deal to pass up.

If a deal is being discussed but doesn't work out and word leaks out (doesn't happen much with Petrie, but still can...) he can always point back to his statement about how they are our core and that it wasn't serious and he was just listening to an offer.

If no good deals come up and he decides to stick with our core and build around it over this offseason and next then he stays true to his word.

So basically I think Petrie is smart guy and his statement about building around our core leaves him several avenues he can go down.

 

[SacTownKid]

Nobody knows for sure. All we know is that Petrie and the Maloofs have talked about the core of "Bibby, Brad and Peja" - that could mean the core as it is at this moment. It doesn't necessarily say anything about the future.

NO GM in his right mind would say something like, "Well, we do have a core of Mike, Brad and Peja, but we're trying our best to move at least one of them to solve our PF problem." Does that mean he's not looking for a way to better the team? Nope. It just means he's not going to say so in public. To do so would be shooting himself AND the Kings in the foot.

Well if he ended up trading any of those players it would look the same anyway. He said he is looking to build around a core of Bibby, Peja, and Miller on numerous occasions. Then again he has also said that nobody is untouchable. Should be interesting to see what turns out. Even though my money is on building around Peja, Mike, and Brad.

 

[Entity]

I wonder if Bricklayer has ever saw a trade scenerio and said "hmmmm that would be a great deal for both teams." It seems like every trade we bring up Brick says the other team wouldn't do it. As if the Kings have the 12 worst players in the league every year.

 

[VF21]

How many times has he been wrong?

 

[AriesMar27]

i wouldnt mind a trade for hinrich/chandler... but i dont want to lose bibby and kirk is too good to be his back up unless adelman limited everyones minutes....

i doubt that kirk could handle taking the last shot... mike wants to take it and peja..... hinrich is my favorite non-kings player in the league, but he isnt worth losing mike over.... sorry....

 

[Kings113]

Hinrich proved how good he was and can become in the playoffs.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I have noticed several shots at Bibby as well, from both Geoff and Rick.

Maybe its intentional. Over the years, they've seen how he reacts when heckled by a fan in the stands and decided to try it themselves.

 

[ParniValjak]

I'm still very fuzzy on why they would. the Peja to Chicago idea always were based on Peja's connection to Skiles, somewhat on the Serb population in the area, and on the idea that maybe the Bulls need a prolific shooter/scorer to take the next step. But Mike has noen of those advantages. Obviously I would love to get Heinrich (who I apologize to for calling a scrub a month into his rookie season) and Chandler -- my two favorite Bulls players. But I have to squint real hard to see the upside for the Bulls themselves.

I do agree with you that I just can't see why the Bulls do it BUT then again, we would have said the same thing on the Webber for Thomas, Williamson and Skinner deal. Maybe there would be a future draft pick involved.

Or maybe we are reading too much into it and Bibby isn't going anywhere. However, I do think Bibby is the one that has most trade value than anyone else on our roster in terms of who you could get in return for him.