BALL WINS ROTY, TYRESE 3RD

#1
Hornets' LaMelo Ball wins 2020-21 NBA Rookie of the Year despite missing 21 regular-season games, per report (linked)

No surprise there.

I have no problem w/LB winning after missing a bunch of games. He had a phenomenal year.

I DO have a problem with Edwards getting the second-place nod over Haliburton. He got it for two reasons - highlight-reel dunks and his scoring. Call me a stodgy old man, but his dunks count no more than a TyH floater. I don't think he should get much extra credit for them.

But it's giving Edwards big credit for his 19.3 ppg that really chaps my hide. That's a fine scoring average, especially for a rookie. But when it comes on 41.7% shooting overall and 32.9% from 3? Hardly a model of efficiency, is it?

Edwards' shooting line: 41.7/32.9/77.6
Haliburton's line: 47.2/40.9/85.7

Edwards took 16.8 inefficient shots/game; Tyrese took 10.7 much more efficient shots/game. And I don't think there's much of an argument to be made that Edwards otherwise helped his team win more than Ty helped his.

Edwards is an exciting player, maybe a perennial all-Star in the making. But his rookie year wasn't better than our guy's.
 
#2
Edwards over Ty is a very shallow pick. Ball deserves it but Ty was definitely a more efficient and higher impact player than Edwards. Voters should’ve asked themselves if Ty chucked as much as Edwards..would he too average atleast 19 points?..he’d probably average more
 
#4
I'm as big of a homer as anyone, but I have no problem with Tyrese coming in third. Edwards was pretty phenomenal the second half of the year. He obviously was given more opportunities in comparison with Tyrese, but that's the way it goes.
This is the realistic take. Edwards had a brilliant second half of the year, he deserved to come second. That's not a knock on Hali.
 
#7
It would be offensive if first-half Edwards got second over Hali. He ascended as the season went though and Ty ended the season injured.

I said it during the season, the second LaMelo came back he had the award in the bag.
Yep exactly this. Edwards had a really good last 15 games while Hali didn't have any tape. Unfortunately how these awards go as Hali was in a different universe the first 3 months of the year.
 
#8
It would be offensive if first-half Edwards got second over Hali. He ascended as the season went though.
Leaving aside how good Edwards was in either half, not clear why 2nd-half performance should weigh more heavily than 1st half. Ain't like Edwards helped carry the team to a lot of wins (they won 23 on the year). Effectively, that penalizes Ty for not maintaining his phenomenal first half while rewarding Edwards for outperforming his s****y first half while discounting overall impact.
 
#9
Leaving aside how good Edwards was in either half, not clear why 2nd-half performance should weigh more heavily than 1st half. Ain't like Edwards helped carry the team to a lot of wins (they won 23 on the year). Effectively, that penalizes Ty for not maintaining his phenomenal first half while rewarding Edwards for outperforming his s****y first half while discounting overall impact.
Because rightly or wrongly, you have two things taking place: a) recency bias (some of this is pure bias and some may have some standing as learning/development go) and b) the beginning of the year the pool is 60 some players, maybe the press are looking at the top 10 picks and our guy was 12, so they weren't even paying attention. by the end of the year when the field is a clear top 3 and voters are looking to cast the ballot and watching those guys like hawks, and our guy is sitting out, it really hurts.
 
#12
The difference between 2nd and 3rd place in ROY is pretty meaningless. Being number 1 means a lot. They are all talented dudes and the Kings got lucky af that Tyrese fell to them. I liked D Vassell a lot - but what were the Spurs thinking?
 
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#13
The difference between 2nd and 3rd place in ROY is pretty meaningless. Being number 1 means a lot. They are all talented dudes and the Kings got lucky af that Tyrese fell to them. I liked D Vassell a lot - but what where the Spurs thinking?
Good example why you don't draft a SG with a team fully stocked with gaurds already and expect immediate results.
 
#14
Because rightly or wrongly, you have two things taking place: a) recency bias (some of this is pure bias and some may have some standing as learning/development go) and b) the beginning of the year the pool is 60 some players, maybe the press are looking at the top 10 picks and our guy was 12, so they weren't even paying attention. by the end of the year when the field is a clear top 3 and voters are looking to cast the ballot and watching those guys like hawks, and our guy is sitting out, it really hurts.
PDX, that might be a fine explanation for why it happens; it's not an argument that it *should* happen. I actually think a big part of why it happened is simply that Edwards' made a lot of Sportscenter highlight plays. Another might be that whereas no-one outshined Edwards in Minnesota, Fox was the brightest light in Sacramento. I think that probably hurt Haliburton. IMO, these aren't "good" reasons to favor Edwards over TH, but I suspect they helped him.

And half of your (b) probably isn't true. TH was #12 but probably the most ballyhooed #12 in recent memory since few thought he'd drop that far in the draft. He got tons of attention early.
 
#15
PDX, that might be a fine explanation for why it happens; it's not an argument that it *should* happen. I actually think a big part of why it happened is simply that Edwards' made a lot of Sportscenter highlight plays. Another might be that whereas no-one outshined Edwards in Minnesota, Fox was the brightest light in Sacramento. I think that probably hurt Haliburton. IMO, these aren't "good" reasons to favor Edwards over TH, but I suspect they helped him.

And half of your (b) probably isn't true. TH was #12 but probably the most ballyhooed #12 in recent memory since few thought he'd drop that far in the draft. He got tons of attention early.
There's "hey this guy is really good" chit chat and there are all the local beat writers and yahoos with votes that might repeat that and never actually watch a Kings game. This is pretty much par for the course across all sports and not just a Kings thing.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#16
I gotta admit, it's a bit surprising that the guy who finished second in the ROY was absolutely HATED by advanced stats. 25th in the class in Win Shares and 44th in the class in VORP, 16th in the class in BPM (min. 300 minutes), and he comes in second? Eeeesh. Ball was #7/#1/#1 in those stats and Tyrese was #2/#2/#2 (clean sweep!) I don't really care how great Edwards is at putting up inefficient points on a bad team. One of these kids is not like the others.
 
#17
Voting for these things can be pretty shallow. I felt Joe Ingles was the better sixth man than Jordan Clarkson, but Clarkson had better points per game and got the award. Although I'm sure Edwards is a nice guy, I would rather have Tyrese than Edwards on the Kings.
 
#19
I gotta admit, it's a bit surprising that the guy who finished second in the ROY was absolutely HATED by advanced stats. 25th in the class in Win Shares and 44th in the class in VORP, 16th in the class in BPM (min. 300 minutes), and he comes in second? Eeeesh. Ball was #7/#1/#1 in those stats and Tyrese was #2/#2/#2 (clean sweep!) I don't really care how great Edwards is at putting up inefficient points on a bad team. One of these kids is not like the others.
Exactly. And it isn't close, statistically speaking, and it ain't like Edwards helped the Wolves to greater success.

No, it really doesn't matter who came in 2nd vs. 3rd. Yes, we can all offer reasonable speculation about why Edwards was voted ahead of Haliburton. I'm just saying that it wasn't on the basis of a substantive read of the contributions made by each and I find that annoying.
 
#20
It doesn’t matter who wins this meaningless award. Tyreke Evans won it over Steph Curry. We know how those careers turned out.

I know a lot of you are in love with LaMelo Ball, but I’d still rather have Tyrese Haliburton. Over time I believe he’ll prove to be the player that moves the needle the most. IDC about impressive stat lines. Tyrese plays a style of ball, on both ends of the floor, most conducive to winning.

If this KINGS team played an East loaded schedule, they’d have made the playoffs in the East too. So don’t be fooled by the fact teams like CHAR and ATL made it and the KINGS didn’t.
 
#23
Not bad for the 12th pick.
Exactly. Ball deserved to win ROY but beyond that no one will remember who the 2nd & 3rd runners up were.

But after one year the Kings got one of the three best players from this class with the 12th pick.

Consistently getting great value from draft picks, especially lottery picks, has been the biggest failing of this franchise for the last 15 years or more.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#24
Regardless of how the vote turned out (and I can think of two reasons why that shouldn't really bother anybody here) the important thing is that there was a point mid-season where our guy had a legit shot at winning Rookie of the Year. The last six weeks of the season were a massive bummer for a lot of reasons and Tyrese getting injured somewhere in there was definitely one of them but that doesn't take away from all the great moments he had on the court. These three players are so different that it's hard to really compare them and I wouldn't be mad at Melo or Antman on the team either but projecting their careers based on what we've already seen, I'm happy we've got Rese. He's a great player and a fun personality and fits this team like a glove.